What America Needs is Zero Based Budgeting

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yep.
Every government ‘shutdown’ nobody can tell a difference.

The people who go without paychecks can tell the difference.

 

[BluesLegend]

Every year we go thru the clown show of budgeting. Every year departments ask for more money than they had last year.

The Department of Botanic Gardening (how could America survive without it) will ask for $30M more than they were budgeted last year. The swamp creatures will approve a $15M increase.

The swamp creatures and the related media will report to the American people how the Department of Botanical Gardening took a $15M CUT this year.


Time to have zero based budgets. Each fiscal year your budget is $0. Now it’s up to each department to justify in writing every dollar they want for the next budget.

Only then will spending be put under control.

I laugh when government cuts the INCREASE then claims they made budget cuts.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The people who go without paychecks can tell the difference.

Welcome to the real world. Permanent government layoffs is what’s needed. Not paid vacations.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Have you ever served on a submarine? If not, you have no idea how complicated it is to flush a toilet hundreds of feet under water. I'd really like to see you source for that figure. I think you are being facetious!

Subs dump into a holding tank, ignoramus.

 

[Winston]

1. Bullshit. If state taxes can be routinely collected a 4% or so Federal Sales Tax can be collected.

2. I kept the 0.1% Financial Transaction Tax because that's what the linked article had, that had Pocahontas' seal of approval, I'm open to adjusting any of these proposed rates that get to a surplus to pay down the $33T debt.

3. Remittance tax is also routinely collected by several states. The Federal government should cash in that old $150b of revenue, that could easily double or triple with the new migrants.

4. We agree on removing the cap on SS. That fixes SS long term, raising the ages 1-year, since we collect longer, also helps.

5. We paid into Medicare with real dollars, not the inflated ones they have now. So what's your fix? Google it if you're blanking.

6. Medicaid is going bankrupt, everyone who sees a doctor should pay something for it. No more free stuff. I thought Bill Clinton put a 2-year limit on Welfare? Now I see that the fucking migrants are getting Welfare? That is bullshit.

COUNTER PROPOSALS:
1. Corporations just pass thru any tax increase by raising prices, and that causes inflation, or they move to lower tax countries.
Why don't we just eliminate ALL SUBSIDIES for corporations, aka "Corporate Welfare"?
2. Agreed. No more "capital gains", all income is just income. We could also consider eliminating ALL tax deductions.

THANK YOU FOR A REAL DISCUSSION!

1. I don't think you are appreciating just how time consuming and paperwork plagued collecting sales taxes is for businesses, especially small businesses. Doubling that work load is going to be extremely detrimental to those small businesses. And you failed to counter the regressive aspect of sales taxes. Currently, the federal tax system is barely progressive, and actually, has you get to the highest income levels it is regressive. The ultra-wealthy pay a lower percentage of their income in taxes that the, well, just wealthy. The curve slopes downward at the upper end, that ain't right.
2. Thank you for being open to expanding a transaction tax. I mean come on, .1% is a damn joke. That is one dollar per thousand. A hundred thousand dollar investment, it is one hundred dollars. You think that hundred bucks is going to hold any weight in the decision making process of the investor? I mean even at one percent, is a thousand dollars going to give that investor pause? Probably not.
But that is the thing here. A tax can do more than raise revenue. It can also be used to manipulate behavior. That is what a transaction tax can do, but it has to be significant. Sure, the financial industry will wail like stuck pigs, but markets are too volatile, the beta is off the chain, and has been for years. And who benefits from that volatility? The damn financial pros, the wirehouses, the brokerage firms. It sure as hell ain't Joe Sixpack mulling over his 401K.

3. Maybe the difference between you and I is that I don't have a problem with those remittances. Matter of fact, I am thankful for them. Like I said, it reduces inflationary pressures here, it actually increases them in the country in which they are sent. And I got to be honest, if I am sending money to my wife and kids in El Salvador, and you slap a tax on that, well I am sending them Bitcoins and ain't paying shit in taxes.

4. No, we are not collecting longer. We are collecting shorter. Life expectancy has been decreasing in the US for the last couple of years. Hell, less people are even making it to retirement age as it is. Number one demographic for drug overdose deaths, white males between 55 and 65. Suicide rates, through the roof for that same demographic. Social Security is making out like a damn bandit. Remove the cap and there is no need whatsoever to raise the retirement age. We start seeing life expectancies climb, suicide rates drop, we can talk about it.

5. What difference does inflation make when we are talking about percentages and income caps?

https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/soc_security_rates_1937-2009-20090504.pdf?_gl=1*h7l6ot*_ga*MTUzMTAzMTE3NS4xNjk2NDUwNTg5*_ga_FP7KWDV08V*MTY5NjQ1MDU4OS4xLjAuMTY5NjQ1MDU5MS41OC4wLjA.

You already screwed the pooch. You said "we". You look at the chart and think about your own working career. I mean I am a boomer, albeit barely, born in 1962. Boomers are parasites, sucking the marrow of the bones of this country. They can't die off soon enough.

6. No, illegal immigrants are not getting "free stuff". Their children, yeah, probably are, but I got no problem with that. It is an investment. But the whole emergency room, health care, draining resources meme is just that, a meme. Illegal immigrants visit the emergency room less than native Americans, and when they do, a higher percentage of them actually pay for their care. They start more businesses than native Americans, and their kids, holy shit, American citizens, they become professionals, from doctors to engineers, at a higher rate than Native Americans. And most of them are bilingual. Immigrants, rather legal or illegal, have always been what made America great. That has not changed.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Welcome to the real world. Permanent government layoffs is what’s needed. Not paid vacations.

So, you want to layoff the military?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Subs dump into a holding tank, ignoramus.

I am a qualified submariner. How do you dump the holding tank, doofus?

 

[Nostra]

Return to the Eisenhower tax rates as well.

Back when the rich paid a smaller share of the total tax bill?

 

[Nostra]

Yes and no. In a free nation we could ask the Navy why they want $4.2B for submarine toilets. With a balanced budget requirement I just see pork first and real needs filled last.

No shit (pun intended)....just hang it out the window.

 

[Anathema]

Time to have zero based budgets. Each fiscal year your budget is $0. Now it’s up to each department to justify in writing every dollar they want for the next budget

The first justification needs to be which specific line item under Article I, Section 8 this spending is authorized under… You’d probably see a 50% reduction in Federal Spending in.the first year.

 

[Nostra]

The first justification needs to be which specific line item under Article I, Section 8 this spending is authorized under… You’d probably see a 50% reduction in Federal Spending in.the first year.

If the Feds only spent money on the very few things the Constitution allows them to spend money on the budget would by about 10% of what it is now.

 

[Anathema]

If the Feds only spent money on the very few things the Constitution allows them to spend money on the budget would by about 10% of what it is now

Then why aren’t we forcing them to do so?

 

[kyzr]

1. Increases inflation. No go!
2. I doubt your figures are anywhere close to accurate.
3. Great idea. Let's tax all the illegals!
4. Destroy everyone's budget and increase inflation. No go.
5. Increases inflation. No go!
6. Defeats the purpose of Medicaid. No go!
7. That would only take 91 years to pay off 32 trillion dollars. Not enough!

I am sure I am wrong, but you have one valid way to raise revenue without harming the economy.

1. Adding a Fed Sales Tax reduces inflation by printing and borrowing less money. Actually paying in real dollars instead of borrowing decreases inflation.
2. My figures are accurate. Read the links I provided.
3. Damn right tax the illegals. Google it, the $150b was a real number
4. Removing the cap on SS only affects people who make more than $150,000 a year
5. People should pay something to see a doctor. No more free stuff.
6. Same as #5 (otherwise SS goes bankrupt, there is no fucking money)
7. The rates can be adjusted to pay down about $500b a year, its a start.

The 1% a year cut in spending is also included.

 

[kyzr]

1. I don't think you are appreciating just how time consuming and paperwork plagued collecting sales taxes is for businesses, especially small businesses. Doubling that work load is going to be extremely detrimental to those small businesses. And you failed to counter the regressive aspect of sales taxes. Currently, the federal tax system is barely progressive, and actually, has you get to the highest income levels it is regressive. The ultra-wealthy pay a lower percentage of their income in taxes that the, well, just wealthy. The curve slopes downward at the upper end, that ain't right.
2. Thank you for being open to expanding a transaction tax. I mean come on, .1% is a damn joke. That is one dollar per thousand. A hundred thousand dollar investment, it is one hundred dollars. You think that hundred bucks is going to hold any weight in the decision making process of the investor? I mean even at one percent, is a thousand dollars going to give that investor pause? Probably not.
But that is the thing here. A tax can do more than raise revenue. It can also be used to manipulate behavior. That is what a transaction tax can do, but it has to be significant. Sure, the financial industry will wail like stuck pigs, but markets are too volatile, the beta is off the chain, and has been for years. And who benefits from that volatility? The damn financial pros, the wirehouses, the brokerage firms. It sure as hell ain't Joe Sixpack mulling over his 401K.
3. Maybe the difference between you and I is that I don't have a problem with those remittances. Matter of fact, I am thankful for them. Like I said, it reduces inflationary pressures here, it actually increases them in the country in which they are sent. And I got to be honest, if I am sending money to my wife and kids in El Salvador, and you slap a tax on that, well I am sending them Bitcoins and ain't paying shit in taxes.
4. No, we are not collecting longer. We are collecting shorter. Life expectancy has been decreasing in the US for the last couple of years. Hell, less people are even making it to retirement age as it is. Number one demographic for drug overdose deaths, white males between 55 and 65. Suicide rates, through the roof for that same demographic. Social Security is making out like a damn bandit. Remove the cap and there is no need whatsoever to raise the retirement age. We start seeing life expectancy climb, suicide rates drop, we can talk about it.
5. What difference does inflation make when we are talking about percentages and income caps?
You already screwed the pooch. You said "we". You look at the chart and think about your own working career. I mean I am a boomer, albeit barely, born in 1962. Boomers are parasites, sucking the marrow of the bones of this country. They can't die off soon enough.
6. No, illegal immigrants are not getting "free stuff". Their children, yeah, probably are, but I got no problem with that. It is an investment. But the whole emergency room, health care, draining resources meme is just that, a meme. Illegal immigrants visit the emergency room less than native Americans, and when they do, a higher percentage of them actually pay for their care. They start more businesses than native Americans, and their kids, holy shit, American citizens, they become professionals, from doctors to engineers, at a higher rate than Native Americans. And most of them are bilingual. Immigrants, rather legal or illegal, have always been what made America great. That has not changed.

1. Many states already collect sales taxes. Its easy. Regressive? Its a "fair-tax" aka a "flat-tax". Its very fair, lower incomes buy less and pay less tax, higher incomes buy more and pay more tax. Its perfect. The bottom half of incomes pay no income tax now, this sales tax would let them contribute.
2. If you read the linked article. there was some rationale'. I agree that a slightly higher tax is workable.
3. The Remittance Tax is working in several states. Google it.
4. Life expectancy is higher than it was when the 62/67 ages were established.
5. If removing the cap fixes SS, no need to raise the ages or the tax.
6. We disagree, but Welfare for migrants needs to be eliminated, since Trump will deport them all.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Then why aren’t we forcing them to do so?

If you can think of a non violent revolution method for the swamp creatures to follow the Constitution, I’m for it.

 

[Anathema]

If you can think of a non violent revolution method for the swamp creatures to follow the Constitution, I’m for it

Sorry, we’re WAY past the point where non-violent options have any chance of success.

 

[Blaster]

Lobbyists need to get paid.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I am a qualified submariner. How do you dump the holding tank, doofus?

Not at 900 feet, bubbleheadwannabe.

 

[candycorn]

Every year we go thru the clown show of budgeting. Every year departments ask for more money than they had last year.

The Department of Botanic Gardening (how could America survive without it) will ask for $30M more than they were budgeted last year. The swamp creatures will approve a $15M increase.

The swamp creatures and the related media will report to the American people how the Department of Botanical Gardening took a $15M CUT this year.


Time to have zero based budgets. Each fiscal year your budget is $0. Now it’s up to each department to justify in writing every dollar they want for the next budget.

Only then will spending be put under control.

I made the same point on this board in 2011. Obama was POTUS.

Trump signed off on $8T in new debt (debt alone...not the whole Ball of Wax). Where were you then?

 

[candycorn]

1. I recommend a new Grace Commission to do a scientific study of the Federal government an to provide recommendations how to reduce the Budget responsibly. Where to eliminate duplication and waste. To make the Federal government more cost-effective.

2. We can't cut the Budget to get back to Balance, we borrow ~$2T a year, we need new Revenue, in addition to cutting spending, say 1% a year for 10-years.

3. Here are my recommendations to get new revenue, in addition to the 1% cuts:

1. Add a 4% Federal Sales Tax on all sales (gains ~400b/yr)
2. Add a 0.1%? financial transaction tax on ALL financial buy/sell transactions (stocks, bonds, derivatives, bitcoin, etc.) (gains 777b/yr)
3. Add a Remittance Tax on all money sent out of the US (gains ~$150b/yr, see below)
4. Remove the cap on SS tax, and raise the ages from 62/67 to 63/68 (saves SS)
5. Raise the tax and co-pay for Medicare
6. Add a co-pay for Medicaid
7. So if all of the above taxes were implemented, the $1T Budget Deficit would become a $350b surplus to start paying down the $32T Debt

Financial Transactions Tax: What You Need to Know - SmartAsset | SmartAsset

A financial transactions tax is levied on trades made of stocks, bonds, derivatives and other financial products. It is favored by progressives.

smartasset.com

The United States Loses $150 Billion Annually in Remittances

Many Americans know very little, if anything, about “remittances,” (also known as “remittance payments”) and how they affect the U.S. economy. The term “remittance” refers to money earned in the United States that is transferred to relatives, friends or business associates who are still abroad...

www.fairus.org

1 and 2 are good ideas.

#4 (the first part) is common sense that every conservative fights tooth and nail for some reason.

The rest of it? Nah.