We must go back to a fairer early 20th century system of doing things

[francoHFW]

A socialist country has just as much invention as purely capitalist- just without huge suffering and injustice. Again, socialist is not communist.


Read "The Good Old Days- They Were Terrible!". Your heroes were lucky to survive the savage capitalism. See Tesla, etc.

 

[tooAlive]

A socialist country has just as much invention as purely capitalist- just without huge suffering and injustice. Again, socialist is not communist.


Read "The Good Old Days- They Were Terrible!". Your heroes were lucky to survive the savage capitalism. See Tesla, etc.

I'm not refuting the fact that workers had it hard in those days. I'm saying that the world has seen the biggest advancement and innovation because a few men had a relentless desire to succeed.

Give me an example of innovation and advancement under socialism.

 

[francoHFW]

America is socialist NOW, just in an unfair, pandering to the rich way. Obamacare will help a lot, and the bloated rich paying a little more..

 

[francoHFW]

Give me an example of invention and advancement in the last 50 years, and there ya go. The car, steel, and the light bulb just aren't to be equaled again.

 

[tooAlive]

Give me an example of invention and advancement in the last 50 years, and there ya go. The car, steel, and the light bulb just aren't to be equaled again.

The internet?

The personal computer?

Cell Phones?

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's thousands, if not millions more.

Now answer mine: What innovations have been conceived under socialism?

 

[francoHFW]

All of those....are you back to communism again?

Is the UK socialist? They take credit for the Internet.

The Finns think they invented cell phones.

NASA takes credit for lots of these things.

It's never a guy out in his garage or lab anymore.

And I argue we're socialist .

 

[rdean]

How come Republicans always want to go "back". To bad they hate education. If they studied history, they might want to go "forward".

 

[bripat9643]

Give me an example of invention and advancement in the last 50 years, and there ya go. The car, steel, and the light bulb just aren't to be equaled again.

Let's see: the computer, the internet, the cell phone, the transistor, the integrated circuit.

 

[bripat9643]

Gates and Jobs managed to do just fine. There's no need to go back to keeping the majority down, just so they could have a little extra. Libertarians always say you only have to work harder and improve yourself, totally disregarding those who would put up barriers so that won't happen, if they can.

Who puts up barriers so it won't happen?

 

[bripat9643]

How come Republicans always want to go "back". To bad they hate education. If they studied history, they might want to go "forward".

That's "too bad," not "to bad." I guess that must be the result of that fine government education you received.

 

[bripat9643]

All of those....are you back to communism again?

Is the UK socialist? They take credit for the Internet.

So does Algore.

The Finns think they invented cell phones.

No they don't

NASA takes credit for lots of these things.

Such as? Tang?

It's never a guy out in his garage or lab anymore.

That's exactly how the PC was invented.

And I argue we're socialist .

You're doing a very poor job of it.

 

[beagle9]

How come Republicans always want to go "back". To bad they hate education. If they studied history, they might want to go "forward".

I don't know, it's kind of like when your about to drive over a cliff cuz ya took a wrong turn, reverse does seem to be the most viable option, especially after the wrong turn we took in this election...smile..

 

[Skull Pilot]

How come Republicans always want to go "back". To bad they hate education. If they studied history, they might want to go "forward".

If you're going to criticize someone on their attitudes regarding education you might want to brush up on your English just a little no?

 

[beagle9]

How come Republicans always want to go "back". To bad they hate education. If they studied history, they might want to go "forward".

If you're going to criticize someone on their attitudes regarding education you might want to brush up on your English just a little no?

The Irony....LOL

 

[editec]

Henry FORD understood that his workers needed to make enough money to become CONSUMERS.

That is why he paid about 5 times the average workers salary to his employees.

If the rest of the robber barons had been so PROGRESSIVE, the UNION movements would probably have been unnecessary.

Oh, and by the way?

FORD HATED THE BANKSTERS OF HIS DAY.

He never EVER borrowed money to expand his business.

 

[beretta304]

I have actually lived for short times as they did prior to WW1. No thank you. Ever use and outhouse at -20 degrees? And experiance not to be missed.

You had the luxury of an outhouse?

 

[bripat9643]

I have actually lived for short times as they did prior to WW1. No thank you. Ever use and outhouse at -20 degrees? And experiance not to be missed.

Indoor plumbing wasn't invented by the government, nimrod. All the things that have made life better since the 19th century were the creations of private companies. Which laws or government programs were responsible for the invention of the following:

• television
• radio
• electric lights
• refrigeration
• motor car
• airplane
• phonograph
• motion pictures
• air conditioning
• anesthesia
• penicillin
• polio vaccine
• DDT
• cell phones
• indoor plumbing
• combine
• tractor
• aluminum can

 

[bripat9643]

Henry FORD understood that his workers needed to make enough money to become CONSUMERS.

That is why he paid about 5 times the average workers salary to his employees.

No he didn't. That's bullshit commie propaganda. He paid his workers more because otherwise it was difficult to get workers who were disciplined enough to tolerate the demands his assembly line made on them. Prior to that, cars were made by craftsman. A workers would build all the components of the car and it was aliesurely process. In Fords assembly line, on the other hand, auto workers had to do the same demanding task over and over 1000 times a day with perfection. They had to show up at 8:00 AM every morning without fail

If the rest of the robber barons had been so PROGRESSIVE, the UNION movements would probably have been unnecessary.

The union movement wasn't necessary. It was a scheme instigated by criminal gangs.

Oh, and by the way?

FORD HATED THE BANKSTERS OF HIS DAY.

He never EVER borrowed money to expand his business.

He also hated Jews.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'm watching the Men that built America on the history channel. I'll tell you the model for remaining number one is in the late 19th century and early 20th century when a man could become as powerful as hell pleased.

Why is it good for innovation? Simply because under this system a man would work really fucking hard to come up with new idea's and drive our nation forward. This is why we had electricity, light bulbs, trains, rail-tracks, oil, steel, cars, trucks, trains, etc. Without a strong reason to innovate why would anyone want to invite and create wealth for our nation? Today China is kicking our ass for just this reason! Now I'll admit that workers deserve high working standards and fair pay. Again fair pay is what the market rates it at...This is a law of economics!

If we wish to remain the most powerful economic engine on earth. We're going to have to relearn how and why we became such in the first place. The rich must want to invest not only within our national interest but within theirs. Yes, there's nothing what so ever wrong with a man becoming filthy fucking rich for good idea's.

This is something we learn or die on. I agree that the workers deserves a clean work place with a fair market place wage. We can agree on that?

I too am watching this History Channel production but have a little different take on what I'm seeing and hearing than are you. For example, the actions of J. P. Morgan in fucking over Nicola Tesla, efforts by John D. Rockefeller to discredit electricity as a source of lighting 'cause he held enormous amounts of kerosene lamp oil, and the actions of Henry Clay Frick who cut wages, increased hours of the steel workers and used the Pinkerton's to murder steel workers in an effort to break the workers strike.

See "The Gilded Age" for the rest of the story of how the rich got richer and the poor poorer and compare it to what the Republican Party has become. A reactionary party - that is one which wishes to return to the past - where the rich write the rules and enforce them too. See also the last chapter wherein the rich buy the Presidency but end up with a Progressive as POTUS.

Thank you Matthew for posting this thread, it puts contemporary issues in perspective and demonstrates in stark detail why I believe Capital needs Labor, Labor needs Capital and both need a strong independent federal government able to regulate the demands and actons of both.

PS Independent means we must have campaign finance reform and repeal the crazy decision by five men to equate Free Speech with Money in CU v. FEC

 

[tooAlive]

I'm watching the Men that built America on the history channel. I'll tell you the model for remaining number one is in the late 19th century and early 20th century when a man could become as powerful as hell pleased.

Why is it good for innovation? Simply because under this system a man would work really fucking hard to come up with new idea's and drive our nation forward. This is why we had electricity, light bulbs, trains, rail-tracks, oil, steel, cars, trucks, trains, etc. Without a strong reason to innovate why would anyone want to invite and create wealth for our nation? Today China is kicking our ass for just this reason! Now I'll admit that workers deserve high working standards and fair pay. Again fair pay is what the market rates it at...This is a law of economics!

If we wish to remain the most powerful economic engine on earth. We're going to have to relearn how and why we became such in the first place. The rich must want to invest not only within our national interest but within theirs. Yes, there's nothing what so ever wrong with a man becoming filthy fucking rich for good idea's.

This is something we learn or die on. I agree that the workers deserves a clean work place with a fair market place wage. We can agree on that?

I too am watching this History Channel production but have a little different take on what I'm seeing and hearing than are you. For example, the actions of J. P. Morgan in fucking over Nicola Tesla, efforts by John D. Rockefeller to discredit electricity as a source of lighting 'cause he held enormous amounts of kerosene lamp oil, and the actions of Henry Clay Frick who cut wages, increased hours of the steel workers and used the Pinkerton's to murder steel workers in an effort to break the workers strike.

See "The Gilded Age" for the rest of the story of how the rich got richer and the poor poorer and compare it to what the Republican Party has become. A reactionary party - that is one which wishes to return to the past - where the rich write the rules and enforce them too. See also the last chapter wherein the rich buy the Presidency but end up with a Progressive as POTUS.

Thank you Matthew for posting this thread, it puts contemporary issues in perspective and demonstrates in stark detail why I believe Capital needs Labor, Labor needs Capital and both need a strong independent federal government able to regulate the demands and actons of both.

PS Independent means we must have campaign finance reform and repeal the crazy decision by five men to equate Free Speech with Money in CU v. FEC

The point is that our nation went forward because a few men were driven to succeed. If they were motivated by goodwill or greed is up for debate. Without the incentive of personal gain, chances are these men wouldn't have been as motivated to accomplish what they did.