We must go back to a fairer early 20th century system of doing things

[ABikerSailor]

We wouldn't have
Oil
Electricy
light bulbs
cars
trucks
Transcontinental rail-road
Large scale steel

All this lined up to make this country what it was. We wouldn't be the power that we're if it wasn't for these men. We must be a nation that allows for great men to raise up and advance our society.

Watch the segment that talks about Ford and ALAM, and how ALAM tried to keep Ford from producing his vehicles.

 

[ABikerSailor]

We wouldn't have
Oil
Electricy
light bulbs
cars
trucks
Transcontinental rail-road
Large scale steel

All this lined up to make this country what it was. We wouldn't be the power that we're if it wasn't for these men. We must be a nation that allows for great men to raise up and advance our society.

Yet cons stand in the way of further improvements, like high speed rail and alternative energy.

Every worthwhile innovation of the 19th and 20th centuries was market driven. They arose on their OWN merits, and the possibility that someone could generate a PROFIT through their use.

You want high speed rail and alternative energy? Great!

Show us how those things can be profit GENERATORS instead of white elephants.

Really? Because one of the main innovations that almost everyone uses today was something that was developed by the government, and they weren't sure if they would let the civilian sector have access to it, but they eventually did.

It's called GPS, and before the government released it publicly and it hit the market, nobody knew they needed or wanted it.

 

[freedombecki]

I'm watching the Men that built America on the history channel. I'll tell you the model for remaining number one is in the late 19th century and early 20th century when a man could become as powerful as hell pleased.

Why is it good for innovation? Simply because under this system a man would work really fucking hard to come up with new idea's and drive our nation forward. This is why we had electricity, light bulbs, trains, rail-tracks, oil, steel, cars, trucks, trains, etc. Without a strong reason to innovate why would anyone want to invite and create wealth for our nation? Today China is kicking our ass for just this reason! Now I'll admit that workers deserve high working standards and fair pay. Again fair pay is what the market rates it at...This is a law of economics!

If we wish to remain the most powerful economic engine on earth. We're going to have to relearn how and why we became such in the first place. The rich must want to invest not only within our national interest but within theirs. Yes, there's nothing what so ever wrong with a man becoming filthy fucking rich for good idea's.

This is something we learn or die on. I agree that the workers deserves a clean work place with a fair market place wage. We can agree on that?

Yeah, and while you were watching that program, did you happen to catch what Henry Ford did? After fighting tooth and nail to be given permission to build his cars, he came up with the assembly line and paid workers a LIVING WAGE of 5 bucks/day, while other car makers were paying their workers only 2 bucks/day.

Henry Ford helped to create the middle class by doing that, and also managed to help drive the economy as his workers were finally able to not only survive, but save up and buy other products (like his cars) as well.

Too bad Wal-Mart and other large corporations didn't feel that way. I mean, you have to work there for 6 years to get from minimum wage up to around 11.50, which means that even after 6 years of good work and steady raises, you still only make around 1800/mo.

and Ford was a socialists.

He was? Did he start a union, or was he an ice cream social kind of guy?

 

[jwoodie]

These men built America's industrial infrastructure in the only way possible during the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. They have now been replaced by publicly traded corporations which have no allegiance to any particular country. Whether that is good or bad is subject to debate.

 

[ScienceRocks]

These men built America's industrial infrastructure in the only way possible during the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. They have now been replaced by publicly traded corporations which have no allegiance to any particular country. Whether that is good or bad is subject to debate.

The reason they have been replaced with such is because of the goddamn left made it hard to compete with in America. Believe it or not they were partly right but the people couldn't see. NOW WE SEE WHY THEY FOUGHT.

Destroying successful people is counter productive for a strong economy.

 

[ScienceRocks]

God we're so lucky to have these men. We wouldn't have electricy, cars, light bulbs, oil, rail-roads, massive steel production. We likely wouldn't have the computer, internet. Yep, let's chase them to China!

 

[rdean]

We must go back to a fairer early 20th century system of doing things

We call that "Depression"

 

[ScienceRocks]

rdean, the depression was after the break ups.

 

[ABikerSailor]

rdean, the depression was after the break ups.

So...............you think that corporations have the right to become as big a monopoly as they can?

Remember...................it was the corporations that bought the presidency for McKinley.

 

[akelch]

Yet cons stand in the way of further improvements, like high speed rail and alternative energy.

Every worthwhile innovation of the 19th and 20th centuries was market driven. They arose on their OWN merits, and the possibility that someone could generate a PROFIT through their use.

You want high speed rail and alternative energy? Great!

Show us how those things can be profit GENERATORS instead of white elephants.

Really? Because one of the main innovations that almost everyone uses today was something that was developed by the government, and they weren't sure if they would let the civilian sector have access to it, but they eventually did.

It's called GPS, and before the government released it publicly and it hit the market, nobody knew they needed or wanted it.

The only reason they did is because they made a profit off of it.

 

[tooAlive]

Does the left know that JP Morgan bailed out the government when they were broke?

 

[francoHFW]

Link?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Every worthwhile innovation of the 19th and 20th centuries was market driven. They arose on their OWN merits, and the possibility that someone could generate a PROFIT through their use.

You want high speed rail and alternative energy? Great!

Show us how those things can be profit GENERATORS instead of white elephants.

Really? Because one of the main innovations that almost everyone uses today was something that was developed by the government, and they weren't sure if they would let the civilian sector have access to it, but they eventually did.

It's called GPS, and before the government released it publicly and it hit the market, nobody knew they needed or wanted it.

The only reason they did is because they made a profit off of it.

Wrong. It was about improving accuracy of the system......................

After Korean Air Lines Flight 007, carrying 269 people, was shot down in 1983 after straying into the USSR's prohibited airspace,[13] in the vicinity of Sakhalin and Moneron Islands, President Ronald Reagan issued a directive making GPS freely available for civilian use, once it was sufficiently developed, as a common good.[14] The first satellite was launched in 1989, and the 24th satellite was launched in 1994.

Initially, the highest quality signal was reserved for military use, and the signal available for civilian use was intentionally degraded (Selective Availability). This changed with President Bill Clinton ordering Selective Availability to be turned off at midnight May 1, 2000, improving the precision of civilian GPS from 100 meters (330 ft) to 20 meters (66 ft). The executive order signed in 1996 to turn off Selective Availability in 2000 was proposed by the US Secretary of Defense, William Perry, because of the widespread growth of differential GPS services to improve civilian accuracy and eliminate the US military advantage. Moreover, the US military was actively developing technologies to deny GPS service to potential adversaries on a regional basis.[15]

Over the last decade, the U.S. has implemented several improvements to the GPS service, including new signals for civil use and increased accuracy and integrity for all users, all while maintaining compatibility with existing GPS equipment.

GPS modernization [16] has now become an ongoing initiative to upgrade the Global Positioning System with new capabilities to meet growing military, civil, and commercial needs. The program is being implemented through a series of satellite acquisitions, including GPS Block III and the Next Generation Operational Control System (OCX). The U.S. Government continues to improve the GPS space and ground segments to increase performance and accuracy.

Global Positioning System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[tooAlive]

I loved the series so much I bought it off iTunes.

And I have to agree completely; the only reason this country advanced so much in the short time as it did was simply because a few men were driven to succeed. Whether by good-will or greed, their achievements forever shaped the way people live around the world.

If JP Morgan didn't have that burning desire to create his own empire from scratch, chances are we'd still be using candles to light our homes at night. Did they exploit many workers? They sure did. But nobody had ever done what they did before. Until Henry Ford came along and showed the world how it was supposed to be done.

But this is where socialism ultimately loses to capitalism.

Human beings just aren't motivated to work for others. Yeah, it sounds great on paper. But it just doesn't work. The desire to innovate and succeed goes away when personal gain is destroyed.

 

[francoHFW]

OP- pretty silly, and fairer for who? The 1%? Certainly not the workers or the customers...

 

[tooAlive]

Link?

J. P. Morgan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Panic of 1893 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Man Who Bailed Out the US and Wall Street | Suite101

The Democrats and President Cleveland were blamed for the depression. The decline of the gold reserves stored in the U.S. Treasury fell to a dangerously low level, forcing President Cleveland to borrow $65 million in gold from Wall-Street banker JP Morgan in order to support the gold standard;[8] The Democrats and Populists lost heavily in the 1894 elections, which marked the largest Republican gains in history.[9]

 

[beagle9]

I have actually lived for short times as they did prior to WW1. No thank you. Ever use and outhouse at -20 degrees? And experiance not to be missed.

Especially if it was a tin seat right ? Honey I'm stuck again ... LOL

 

[francoHFW]

You end up talking about communism, not socialism, which these days is always democratic, basically fair and well regulated capitalism, with a safety net. Cuba, China, USSR- NOT.

 

[tooAlive]

You end up talking about communism, not socialism, which these days is always democratic, basically fair and well regulated capitalism, with a safety net. Cuba, China, USSR- NOT.

Communism is unbearable. Socialism is survivable.

But neither contribute much to humanity. The latter at least allows people to exist and survive. That's it.

If the US was socialist back in the late 1800's, we'd still be taking horses to work. We have cars today because one man had an idea, and fought for it. He changed the world, and got rich in the process. He also employed many people, and gave them a way to provide for their families.

That's the way it should be.

 

[francoHFW]

So J P Morgan and others bailed out what they first screwed up? GREAT. I'll go with the Fed, continued no more monopolies, and well regulated industry and finance- which seems to mean no more Neocons and their chumps.