We must go back to a fairer early 20th century system of doing things

[Political Junky]

We wouldn't have
Oil
Electricy
light bulbs
cars
trucks
Transcontinental rail-road
Large scale steel

All this lined up to make this country what it was. We wouldn't be the power that we're if it wasn't for these men. We must be a nation that allows for great men to raise up and advance our society.

Yet cons stand in the way of further improvements, like high speed rail and alternative energy.

 

[sfcalifornia]

I'm watching the Men that built America on the history channel. I'll tell you the model for remaining number one is in the late 19th century and early 20th century when a man could become as powerful as hell pleased.

Why is it good for innovation? Simply because under this system a man would work really fucking hard to come up with new idea's and drive our nation forward. This is why we had electricity, light bulbs, trains, rail-tracks, oil, steel, cars, trucks, trains, etc. Without a strong reason to innovate why would anyone want to invite and create wealth for our nation? Today China is kicking our ass for just this reason! Now I'll admit that workers deserve high working standards and fair pay. Again fair pay is what the market rates it at...This is a law of economics!

If we wish to remain the most powerful economic engine on earth. We're going to have to relearn how and why we became such in the first place. The rich must want to invest not only within our national interest but within theirs. Yes, there's nothing what so ever wrong with a man becoming filthy fucking rich for good idea's.

This is something we learn or die on. I agree that the workers deserves a clean work place with a fair market place wage. We can agree on that?

Gates and Jobs managed to do just fine. There's no need to go back to keeping the majority down, just so they could have a little extra. Libertarians always say you only have to work harder and improve yourself, totally disregarding those who would put up barriers so that won't happen, if they can.

The only one putting effective barriers is the government, try starting a manufacturing business and see how many feet of regulations you have to comply with. Usually it's not worth the effort, just build a factory in another country. Our loss of manufacturing is why we have a declining middle class, service and retail jobs don't pay as well. So as long as 70% of our GDP comes from consumption, get a custom to what we have now. BTW Jobs does not manufacture in the US.

Those regulations came about because there was a need for them.

The government makes law as a reaction, rarely as a precaution.

If you're griping about regulation, gripe to the assholes in the private sector who ripped off the public to begin with way back when.

Obviously the reason why it's so easy to build a factory in another country is because those countries' safety codes and laws are about 100 years behind us.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Gates and Jobs managed to do just fine. There's no need to go back to keeping the majority down, just so they could have a little extra. Libertarians always say you only have to work harder and improve yourself, totally disregarding those who would put up barriers so that won't happen, if they can.

The only entity placing barriers to prosperity is the government. It is not surprising that you and the rest don't get the gist of the OP.

No where did he say he wanted to go back to the days when labor was a dead end with little hope of escape.

I'm sure that if the people here actually pulled their heads out of there talking points, they'd come to realize what is really being said here.

Specifically which barriers set by government are affecting prosperity? With few exceptions, any law the government set during these times was a reaction to the private sector ripping off the public. The private sector brought regulation down upon themselves.

Correct, government merely reacts to the excess and abuse of the private sector.

 

[ScienceRocks]

We wouldn't have
Oil
Electricy
light bulbs
cars
trucks
Transcontinental rail-road
Large scale steel

All this lined up to make this country what it was. We wouldn't be the power that we're if it wasn't for these men. We must be a nation that allows for great men to raise up and advance our society.

Yet cons stand in the way of further improvements, like high speed rail and alternative energy.

Is it profitable? Or does it loss capital and becomes a rat race??? That's the difference between what our government is doing and those great men.

 

[OKTexas]

Gates and Jobs managed to do just fine. There's no need to go back to keeping the majority down, just so they could have a little extra. Libertarians always say you only have to work harder and improve yourself, totally disregarding those who would put up barriers so that won't happen, if they can.

The only one putting effective barriers is the government, try starting a manufacturing business and see how many feet of regulations you have to comply with. Usually it's not worth the effort, just build a factory in another country. Our loss of manufacturing is why we have a declining middle class, service and retail jobs don't pay as well. So as long as 70% of our GDP comes from consumption, get a custom to what we have now. BTW Jobs does not manufacture in the US.

Those regulations came about because there was a need for them.

The government makes law as a reaction, rarely as a precaution.

If you're griping about regulation, gripe to the assholes in the private sector who ripped off the public to begin with way back when.

Obviously the reason why it's so easy to build a factory in another country is because those countries' safety codes and laws are about 100 years behind us.

You keep believing that, 99% of the regulations passed by the EPA in the last 20 years have had little to no benefit to the environment. Your dear leader has violated the law by not sending the required biannual report to congress on the cost of new regulations to the economy. His regulatory czar Cass Sustine has been working over time rewriting our regulatory structure in ways detremental to business. So you just keep your head in the sand and blame 100 year old problems, yep that should work.

 

[Political Junky]

We wouldn't have
Oil
Electricy
light bulbs
cars
trucks
Transcontinental rail-road
Large scale steel

All this lined up to make this country what it was. We wouldn't be the power that we're if it wasn't for these men. We must be a nation that allows for great men to raise up and advance our society.

Yet cons stand in the way of further improvements, like high speed rail and alternative energy.

Is it profitable? Or does it loss capital and becomes a rat race??? That's the difference between what our government is doing and those great men.

Don't you think they were asked the same questions by doubters like you?

 

[Lakhota]

Matthew is batshit crazy.

 

[OKTexas]

Matthew is batshit crazy.

The expert on batshit crazy has spoken. Too bad he usually knows nothing of which he speaks.

 

[francoHFW]

These Ronnie Raygun dreamers should read "the Good Old Days-They Were Terrible". They're clueless as always. The shytte hit the fan after the civil war- the megarich greedy got their mojo on.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[konradv]

The only entity placing barriers to prosperity is the government. It is not surprising that you and the rest don't get the gist of the OP.

No where did he say he wanted to go back to the days when labor was a dead end with little hope of escape.

I'm sure that if the people here actually pulled their heads out of there talking points, they'd come to realize what is really being said here.

Specifically which barriers set by government are affecting prosperity? With few exceptions, any law the government set during these times was a reaction to the private sector ripping off the public. The private sector brought regulation down upon themselves.

You seem to have missed the entire premise of the thread.

The discussion is NOT about labor or anything other than innovation. Understand that yet?

Then the thread is a FAIL, we've had all sorts of innovation since. The very medium we're using was created during the present era and in large part sponsored by the very government you're blaming for stifling innovation.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yeah...going back to the days of the Robber Baron's is JUST what we need to do. Screw the workers, the environment and poor people.

Yeah let's just have the government rob the so called rich instead.

 

[akelch]

Question...to get you back on track....what causes economic booms and economic recessions?
The 1920s there was a booming economy in the US. Then the 1930s hit and we had the Great Depression.

Was innovation the cause of the boom and greed the cause of the depression?
How can you have one without the other? Is not pursuing ones interest greedy?

Or is there another reason?

 

[Truthmatters]

if you study the history of recessions in this country you will see the wealthy love a boom a nd bust cycle.

They make bank during both the up ad down turns.

The middle class get fucked in a constant boom and bust cycle.

Its why glass steagal worked to build a middle class in this country.

It curbed the constant boom and bust cycle.


Now how about all the cons face that this country investied in its future in the past in areas like NASA.

That investiment is what gave us computors and the lions share of inovation which made OUR Industries billions by providing them this inovation throught government investiment.


You want a great market like we had in the past?


Get to investing in this countrys future.

 

[J.E.D]

fair pay is what the market rates it at...This is a law of economics!

So, if the market, or the CEOs figure fair pay for the workers should be dependent upon how much of a profit the company can make (that's what you're really saying), who's that more fair to -- the CEOs or the workers?

 

[J.E.D]

I'm watching the Men that built America on the history channel. I'll tell you the model for remaining number one is in the late 19th century and early 20th century when a man could become as powerful as hell pleased.

Why is it good for innovation? Simply because under this system a man would work really fucking hard to come up with new idea's and drive our nation forward. This is why we had electricity, light bulbs, trains, rail-tracks, oil, steel, cars, trucks, trains, etc. Without a strong reason to innovate why would anyone want to invite and create wealth for our nation? Today China is kicking our ass for just this reason! Now I'll admit that workers deserve high working standards and fair pay. Again fair pay is what the market rates it at...This is a law of economics!

If we wish to remain the most powerful economic engine on earth. We're going to have to relearn how and why we became such in the first place. The rich must want to invest not only within our national interest but within theirs. Yes, there's nothing what so ever wrong with a man becoming filthy fucking rich for good idea's.

This is something we learn or die on. I agree that the workers deserves a clean work place with a fair market place wage. We can agree on that?

Yeah, and while you were watching that program, did you happen to catch what Henry Ford did? After fighting tooth and nail to be given permission to build his cars, he came up with the assembly line and paid workers a LIVING WAGE of 5 bucks/day, while other car makers were paying their workers only 2 bucks/day.

Henry Ford helped to create the middle class by doing that, and also managed to help drive the economy as his workers were finally able to not only survive, but save up and buy other products (like his cars) as well.

Too bad Wal-Mart and other large corporations didn't feel that way. I mean, you have to work there for 6 years to get from minimum wage up to around 11.50, which means that even after 6 years of good work and steady raises, you still only make around 1800/mo.

And they keep a lot of their workers on part-time hours to avoid paying benefits.

 

[GuyPinestra]

We wouldn't have
Oil
Electricy
light bulbs
cars
trucks
Transcontinental rail-road
Large scale steel

All this lined up to make this country what it was. We wouldn't be the power that we're if it wasn't for these men. We must be a nation that allows for great men to raise up and advance our society.

Yet cons stand in the way of further improvements, like high speed rail and alternative energy.

Every worthwhile innovation of the 19th and 20th centuries was market driven. They arose on their OWN merits, and the possibility that someone could generate a PROFIT through their use.

You want high speed rail and alternative energy? Great!

Show us how those things can be profit GENERATORS instead of white elephants.

 

[GuyPinestra]

The only one putting effective barriers is the government, try starting a manufacturing business and see how many feet of regulations you have to comply with. Usually it's not worth the effort, just build a factory in another country. Our loss of manufacturing is why we have a declining middle class, service and retail jobs don't pay as well. So as long as 70% of our GDP comes from consumption, get a custom to what we have now. BTW Jobs does not manufacture in the US.

Those regulations came about because there was a need for them.

The government makes law as a reaction, rarely as a precaution.

If you're griping about regulation, gripe to the assholes in the private sector who ripped off the public to begin with way back when.

Obviously the reason why it's so easy to build a factory in another country is because those countries' safety codes and laws are about 100 years behind us.

You keep believing that, 99% of the regulations passed by the EPA in the last 20 years have had little to no benefit to the environment. Your dear leader has violated the law by not sending the required biannual report to congress on the cost of new regulations to the economy. His regulatory czar Cass Sustine has been working over time rewriting our regulatory structure in ways detremental to business. So you just keep your head in the sand and blame 100 year old problems, yep that should work.

Hell, it's worked for them so far...

 

[ScienceRocks]

We wouldn't have
Oil
Electricy
light bulbs
cars
trucks
Transcontinental rail-road
Large scale steel

All this lined up to make this country what it was. We wouldn't be the power that we're if it wasn't for these men. We must be a nation that allows for great men to raise up and advance our society.

Yet cons stand in the way of further improvements, like high speed rail and alternative energy.

Every worthwhile innovation of the 19th and 20th centuries was market driven. They arose on their OWN merits, and the possibility that someone could generate a PROFIT through their use.

You want high speed rail and alternative energy? Great!

Show us how those things can be profit GENERATORS instead of white elephants.

This is what the left can't wrap their tiny heads around. What makes capitalism great is the fact it plays through human nature to naturally advance. I do agree with people that believe that the worker deserves fair pay at the market level and clean conditions, but I honestly believe looking at history(cuba, ussr, etc) that this is far better than what the left has in mind.

Not only do we want people to succeed within their goals(become rich), but we also want that as our living standards across all incomes increases under such. One case in point of this is Cuba...Most of the cars are of the 1950s there and the government takes care of your every need. You're not going to have any ability to raise up within such a society.

You may in fact have everything equally taken care of...At a very, very poor level that is.

 

[akelch]

if you study the history of recessions in this country you will see the wealthy love a boom a nd bust cycle.

They make bank during both the up ad down turns.

The middle class get fucked in a constant boom and bust cycle.

Its why glass steagal worked to build a middle class in this country.

It curbed the constant boom and bust cycle.


Now how about all the cons face that this country investied in its future in the past in areas like NASA.

That investiment is what gave us computors and the lions share of inovation which made OUR Industries billions by providing them this inovation throught government investiment.


You want a great market like we had in the past?


Get to investing in this countrys future.

When you mean investing , do you mean pay taxes and let Bureaucrats decide on who gets our money? Like Sylondra?
What help did Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates get from the federal government?

The people can invest in themselves...we don't need government to decide on what is best for us.

And yes there were some innovation under government investment with our tax dollars...but for every success of government intervention we can come up with 5 failures.