Was FDR the best President in American history?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It was the creation of massive Industry for the war dumb ass.

Well when you put it like that...

Major increases in Steel Industry, Motor Vehicle production facilities, Aircraft production facilities, technology gains across all spectrum's, Massive increase in ship building production and facilities. Massive production of Ocean going tankers and Cargo vessels. Tons of new Hospitals as well. Hell you know why we have an Interstate Highway system? Because Eisenhower had to ride across the US on the crappy system we had before that. So when he was President he lobbied for and had created an interstate highway system for NATIONAL DEFENSE. Did you know original one mile out of every 3 had to be a straight away with no bridge overpasses? That was so in case of war the Interstate could be used across the country as emergency Airstrips.

What is sad is most of those businesses FAILED by the early 60's to invest in their own upkeep and failed miserably because of it. As for US flagged ships our Merchant shipping is gone because of onerous regulations, taxes and duties. And our Car manufacturers are on the brink of collapse because of the Unions and now the Government supporting said Unions.

So do you believe that the government knows how to allocate resources better than the market does? Because it certainly seems that way.

 

[rightwinger]

So do you believe that the government knows how to allocate resources better than the market does? Because it certainly seems that way.

In WWII they did

It was an economic miracle how rapidly resources were reallocated from peacetime uses to wartime uses. After WWII, the US never looked back

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well when you put it like that...

Major increases in Steel Industry, Motor Vehicle production facilities, Aircraft production facilities, technology gains across all spectrum's, Massive increase in ship building production and facilities. Massive production of Ocean going tankers and Cargo vessels. Tons of new Hospitals as well.

Yeah because everybody knows that you can't build any of that stuff unless you go to war with somebody.

Ok bright boy, explain how absent a worldwide war, in the grips of a depression these businesses would have A) had the capitol to expand and B) had the increase in business to justify it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well when you put it like that...

Major increases in Steel Industry, Motor Vehicle production facilities, Aircraft production facilities, technology gains across all spectrum's, Massive increase in ship building production and facilities. Massive production of Ocean going tankers and Cargo vessels. Tons of new Hospitals as well. Hell you know why we have an Interstate Highway system? Because Eisenhower had to ride across the US on the crappy system we had before that. So when he was President he lobbied for and had created an interstate highway system for NATIONAL DEFENSE. Did you know original one mile out of every 3 had to be a straight away with no bridge overpasses? That was so in case of war the Interstate could be used across the country as emergency Airstrips.

What is sad is most of those businesses FAILED by the early 60's to invest in their own upkeep and failed miserably because of it. As for US flagged ships our Merchant shipping is gone because of onerous regulations, taxes and duties. And our Car manufacturers are on the brink of collapse because of the Unions and now the Government supporting said Unions.

So do you believe that the government knows how to allocate resources better than the market does? Because it certainly seems that way.

After the war a lot of that production increase returned to the Private sector. The Government only stimulated the Growth by its needs for a world wide war. With out the war none of the production facilities would have dramatically increased and the Great Depression would have lingered longer.

 

[Darkwind]

So spake our local socialist support group.
Amen.

More than any president, FDR turned the US into the global power we are today. look at where the US was before he took office to where we were when he died.
The US moved from a sleeping giant to a military and economic SuperPower

Definitely one of our greatest Presidents

Look at him, he's proud of the thing that made the USA one of the most hated nations on earth, and the prime reason the USA is a terror target.

I was going to say, Isn't that all the things that the progressives hate about America today?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Major increases in Steel Industry, Motor Vehicle production facilities, Aircraft production facilities, technology gains across all spectrum's, Massive increase in ship building production and facilities. Massive production of Ocean going tankers and Cargo vessels. Tons of new Hospitals as well. Hell you know why we have an Interstate Highway system? Because Eisenhower had to ride across the US on the crappy system we had before that. So when he was President he lobbied for and had created an interstate highway system for NATIONAL DEFENSE. Did you know original one mile out of every 3 had to be a straight away with no bridge overpasses? That was so in case of war the Interstate could be used across the country as emergency Airstrips.

What is sad is most of those businesses FAILED by the early 60's to invest in their own upkeep and failed miserably because of it. As for US flagged ships our Merchant shipping is gone because of onerous regulations, taxes and duties. And our Car manufacturers are on the brink of collapse because of the Unions and now the Government supporting said Unions.

So do you believe that the government knows how to allocate resources better than the market does? Because it certainly seems that way.

After the war a lot of that production increase returned to the Private sector. The Government only stimulated the Growth by its needs for a world wide war. With out the war none of the production facilities would have dramatically increased and the Great Depression would have lingered longer.

So that's a yes?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So do you believe that the government knows how to allocate resources better than the market does? Because it certainly seems that way.

After the war a lot of that production increase returned to the Private sector. The Government only stimulated the Growth by its needs for a world wide war. With out the war none of the production facilities would have dramatically increased and the Great Depression would have lingered longer.

So that's a yes?

NO it is not. The Government is wasteful and has no desire to save anything. However THEY are a HUGE money machine and can drop tons of cash on problems. In WW2 that resulted in massive increases in technology and production capability that transferred nicely back to civilian control and profit.

Of course those same civilians fucked it all up with in 20 years.

 

[Xenophon]

More than any president, FDR turned the US into the global power we are today. look at where the US was before he took office to where we were when he died.
The US moved from a sleeping giant to a military and economic SuperPower

Definitely one of our greatest Presidents

Look at him, he's proud of the thing that made the USA one of the most hated nations on earth, and the prime reason the USA is a terror target.

The US is far from one of the most hated nations on earth.

Fact is that the US has stabilized the world since we became a Superpower. If you look at the wars and skirmishes that took place before 1945 and compare to what we have today...The US has made the world a safer place

Be delusional with somebody else.

The fact is the world became far more unstable since WWII, and all being a super power did was replace the UK with the USA as world policeman.

The real fun is watching people like you bemoan wars unless your guy starts them, then its 'the good war' and hunky dory for all, but if your political opponents start them, then they are the devil himself and you want war crimes commisions.

I'm against wars period, as pointless things, the 'allies' in WWII were just as bad as the Axis, there being little difference between a nazi and a stalinist and a colonial imperialist.

The stain of this new imperialism is still carried to this day as we butt in around the world in things that we should have no part in.

'Avoid foreign entaglements.'

George knew and warned us, but you don't listen, you LIKE the trappings of empire.

 

[rightwinger]

Look at him, he's proud of the thing that made the USA one of the most hated nations on earth, and the prime reason the USA is a terror target.

The US is far from one of the most hated nations on earth.

Fact is that the US has stabilized the world since we became a Superpower. If you look at the wars and skirmishes that took place before 1945 and compare to what we have today...The US has made the world a safer place

Be delusional with somebody else.

The fact is the world became far more unstable since WWII, and all being a super power did was replace the UK with the USA as world policeman.

The real fun is watching people like you bemoan wars unless your guy starts them, then its 'the good war' and hunky dory for all, but if your political opponents start them, then they are the devil himself and you want war crimes commisions.

I'm against wars period, as pointless things, the 'allies' in WWII were just as bad as the Axis, there being little difference between a nazi and a stalinist and a colonial imperialist.

The stain of this new imperialism is still carried to this day as we butt in around the world in things that we should have no part in.

'Avoid foreign entaglements.'

George knew and warned us, but you don't listen, you LIKE the trappings of empire.

You need to look at your World History and count the number, severity and frequency of wars before and after 1945. Europe was in a constant state of disruption with few periods of peace lasting more than 30 years. WWI and WWII...did you miss those?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

After the war a lot of that production increase returned to the Private sector. The Government only stimulated the Growth by its needs for a world wide war. With out the war none of the production facilities would have dramatically increased and the Great Depression would have lingered longer.

So that's a yes?

NO it is not. The Government is wasteful and has no desire to save anything. However THEY are a HUGE money machine and can drop tons of cash on problems. In WW2 that resulted in massive increases in technology and production capability that transferred nicely back to civilian control and profit.

Of course those same civilians fucked it all up with in 20 years.

Well then I'm confused that if you think the market is superior to government how you can praise the government allocating resources where the market decided they didn't belong. It's no wonder those businesses went out of business, the demand wasn't there to begin with. That's why when the government decides to allocate resources it has to be wasteful, because that move is unsustainable on its own.

 

[Xenophon]

The US is far from one of the most hated nations on earth.

Fact is that the US has stabilized the world since we became a Superpower. If you look at the wars and skirmishes that took place before 1945 and compare to what we have today...The US has made the world a safer place

Be delusional with somebody else.

The fact is the world became far more unstable since WWII, and all being a super power did was replace the UK with the USA as world policeman.

The real fun is watching people like you bemoan wars unless your guy starts them, then its 'the good war' and hunky dory for all, but if your political opponents start them, then they are the devil himself and you want war crimes commisions.

I'm against wars period, as pointless things, the 'allies' in WWII were just as bad as the Axis, there being little difference between a nazi and a stalinist and a colonial imperialist.

The stain of this new imperialism is still carried to this day as we butt in around the world in things that we should have no part in.

'Avoid foreign entaglements.'

George knew and warned us, but you don't listen, you LIKE the trappings of empire.

You need to look at your World History and count the number, severity and frequency of wars before and after 1945. Europe was in a constant state of disruption with few periods of peace lasting more than 30 years. WWI and WWII...did you miss those?

Want to bet on it?

There was no major war in the world from 1815 to 1914.

The great war was a breaking up of the old order that caused instablity in the world as the great power system that kept the peace failed.

Since 1914 there have been two world wars and countless brush wars.

The world is far from 'more stable' now, in fact some areas have been in continuous war for decades (Myamar and Ceylon come to mind) and the USA created the perfect body to perpetuate never ending war, the dysfunctional United Nations.

 

[rightwinger]

Be delusional with somebody else.

The fact is the world became far more unstable since WWII, and all being a super power did was replace the UK with the USA as world policeman.

The real fun is watching people like you bemoan wars unless your guy starts them, then its 'the good war' and hunky dory for all, but if your political opponents start them, then they are the devil himself and you want war crimes commisions.

I'm against wars period, as pointless things, the 'allies' in WWII were just as bad as the Axis, there being little difference between a nazi and a stalinist and a colonial imperialist.

The stain of this new imperialism is still carried to this day as we butt in around the world in things that we should have no part in.

'Avoid foreign entaglements.'

George knew and warned us, but you don't listen, you LIKE the trappings of empire.

You need to look at your World History and count the number, severity and frequency of wars before and after 1945. Europe was in a constant state of disruption with few periods of peace lasting more than 30 years. WWI and WWII...did you miss those?

Want to bet on it?

There was no major war in the world from 1815 to 1914.

The great war was a breaking up of the old order that caused instablity in the world as the great power system that kept the peace failed.

Since 1914 there have been two world wars and countless brush wars.

The world is far from 'more stable' now, in fact some areas have been in continuous war for decades (Myamar and Ceylon come to mind) and the USA created the perfect body to perpetuate never ending war, the dysfunctional United Nations.

No major wars between 1815 and 1914?

US Civil War 1861-1865
Spanish American War 1898
Crimean War 1853-1856
Boer War 1899-1902
Russo-Japanese War 1904-05

 

[MIPS]

Major increases in Steel Industry, Motor Vehicle production facilities, Aircraft production facilities, technology gains across all spectrum's, Massive increase in ship building production and facilities. Massive production of Ocean going tankers and Cargo vessels. Tons of new Hospitals as well.

Yeah because everybody knows that you can't build any of that stuff unless you go to war with somebody.

Ok bright boy, explain how absent a worldwide war, in the grips of a depression these businesses would have A) had the capitol to expand and B) had the increase in business to justify it.

As soon as you are able to explain how it was the we didn't actually come out of the depression until AFTER WW II when government spending declined dramatically, as well as where did we get the capitol to "expand" the war effort.

Apparently they didn't teach you what "opportunity cost" means at the Ghengis Kahn school of economics, huh?

 

[potter 58]

FDR didn't make sure that we were bankrupt or have our hands in everyone else's cookie jar. pretty sure that Dub-yah is to blame for that. everyone is going to come after a super-power. to be top dog, you gotta take out the top dog. that's what they are doing. FDR put people to work. he strengthened our nation. Dub-yah took out in one year what we had spent decades building on thanks to FDR. no man in this country's history has done more for us in office than FDR. i hope someone can do better. but the possibility of that happening is slim to none.

 

[Big Fitz]

My bottom 5 consists of (in no particular order)

Wilson
Buchanan
Carter
FDR
LBJ

Harding was a great President for he undid a LOT of what Wilson did in his "Return to Normalcy" presidency. But his greatest achievement was choosing "Silent Cal" Coolidge as his veep, who went on to be the Reagan of the Roaring 20's.

Grant's admin was overly corrupt thanks to the spoils system and Civil War Veteran Pension issues. Most of this was solved by another great president: Chester A. Arthur who took over after the Garfield assassination.

What we need now is someone to help us recover from the New Deal and Great Society, and we have a chance to make it through this crisis that has been fundamentally caused BY these 'solutions' of previous crisis because they DID NOT END!

 

[Claudette]

War spending doesn't end depressions any more than domestic spending does.

It was the creation of massive Industry for the war dumb ass.

Well when you put it like that...

Eactly like that. The industry for war created jobs.

 

[Big Fitz]

The market responded to the demand for war goods. Jobs were created because profit was able to be made because there was a direct and desperate need. Boom, industry rebounds overnight from those who still had capital to make investments in a suddenly pro business environment.

They then binge hire in a decreasing laborpool of men going off to war, and hire women, thereby ramming through the beginnings of true equality of the genders and doubling the size of the workforce setting us up for long term growth as long as you didn't cut off the head of the golden goose, industrial investiture with anti-business policies.

That is the mechanics of the rebound and continued rise, plus the dip after the war as unemployment surged from our boys coming home. Not to mention all the war bonds came due, paid out and suddenly BOOM middle class happens in the 1950's and 60's thanks to a lot of extra money in the system.

 

[rightwinger]

harding was a great president for he undid a lot of what wilson did in his "return to normalcy" presidency. But his greatest achievement was choosing "silent cal" coolidge as his veep, who went on to be the reagan of the roaring 20's.

omg!

I can't believe someone seriously posted this. Are the Conservatives really that dense? Harding and Coolidge Great Presidents?

Got Depression?

 

[MIPS]

It was the creation of massive Industry for the war dumb ass.

Well when you put it like that...

Eactly like that. The industry for war created jobs.

Jobs building what? Cars, Refrigerators, Radios, Designer Blue Jeans, Houses, Roads, Schools, Bridges, Televisions or were they building tanks, bombs, machine guns and battleships?

Which things from that list do you figure those consumers with "jobs" would rather be buying?

 

[MIPS]

harding was a great president for he undid a lot of what wilson did in his "return to normalcy" presidency. But his greatest achievement was choosing "silent cal" coolidge as his veep, who went on to be the reagan of the roaring 20's.

omg!

I can't believe someone seriously posted this. Are the Conservatives really that dense? Harding and Coolidge Great Presidents?

Got Depression?

We got out of a deep depression in 1920-1921 and it only took TWO years because the Harding Administration didn't do any ham handed intervention and Coolidge presided over a little period of economic prosperity you might have heard of .. it was called "The Roaring Twenties".

Any more distortions of history you'd like to share with the rest of the class rightwinger?