War on The Rich: Dumbest Idea in History of Man

[Darkwind]

The OP wonders why people don't often respond to his threads.

Would he like an honest answer to that question?

No, I'd rather you obey the forum rules and keep your harassing and trolling comments to yourself if you're not going to participate in the thread.

Of course not. You'd prefer that everyone just let you drop your piles of BS here and avoid engaging you in discussion. That is why you post in the manner that you do. It isn't discussion you want. All you seek is nods of agreement from lightweights who like your thread titles.

If you want a thread with honest participation, I can advise you on how to achieve it.

Point 1. Develop a premise that has some basis in fact and is free of hyperbole.

You can thank me later.

Let us know when you follow your own advice.

 

[occupied]

There is no war on the rich, what you see as a war is simply the tension that has always existed in human society between the moneyed class and everyone else. The people with the bulk of the wealth naturally want to run things for their benefit and naturally go too far if allowed. It seems there is always those who side with the elite because they think their livelihood depends on it. Were it actually a war these people would be called "collaborators" but since it is just the natural tension in a stratified society we just call them "conservatives".

We are now in a situation where our wealth class gets it's labor elsewhere and therefore no longer needs our working class nearly as much as in decades past. Wages have stagnated, fringe benefits are not what they used to be, no one was job security anymore, the wealthy have been allowed to openly buy elections and the voice of the great American working class has been all but silenced. From my perspective the war is all but over and the billionaires have won.

 

[Boss]

The OP wonders why people don't often respond to his threads.

Would he like an honest answer to that question?

No, I'd rather you obey the forum rules and keep your harassing and trolling comments to yourself if you're not going to participate in the thread.

Of course not. You'd prefer that everyone just let you drop your piles of BS here and avoid engaging you in discussion. That is why you post in the manner that you do. It isn't discussion you want. All you seek is nods of agreement from lightweights who like your thread titles.

If you want a thread with honest participation, I can advise you on how to achieve it.

Point 1. Develop a premise that has some basis in fact and is free of hyperbole.

You can thank me later.

Well see, what you have to do, libtard, is pose some sort of coherent counter to the points the OP makes, or you just quite frankly haven't done that. There is nothing hyperbolic in the OP, it's pretty cut and dry. You run from the OP screaming "hyperbole" with your panties waving in the air.

Why do I post in the manner I do? What manner? Smart, intelligent, well-reasoned? Better than any fucking counter-argument you can think of?

Let's begin here.

Is capitalism a form of government?

In a sense, yes. The American system is a representative constitutional republic which is based on an economy enabled for the first time in human history by, 1.) a capitalist free market and 2.) a capitalist free enterprise system. It is the epitome of our form of government, it's what we are. Pioneers of free market, free enterprise capitalist economy which is responsible for creating more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by humans.

 

[Boss]

Looks to me like the class war is over, the rich won.

Again... This is the kind of propaganda you believe when you think wealth is finite.

 

[occupied]

Looks to me like the class war is over, the rich won.

Again... This is the kind of propaganda you believe when you think wealth is finite.

Propaganda? If decrying the sorry state of wealth distribution is propaganda then what is your cheerleading for a flawed system that clearly leaves so many in want? Look at the reality of things, sure there is wealth being generated but not by wage earners. We do not have a perfect system, it is not a class war to examine the flaws and attempt to address them.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Random thoughts, barfed out onto the screen for all to see:

1. In a symbiotic and interconnected global economy, wealth is not finite and it is not static. "The Rich" do not bury piles of money in the back yard. It moves.

2. This notion that "The Rich" are "job creators" is a nice try, I guess, but not really true other than the fact that their investing and spending contributes to the economy. Which leads me to...

3. Any time an issue becomes politicized, it becomes dumbed down and over-simplified on both ends. And this whole topic has become very politicized.

4. It really isn't that difficult to see that wealth concentration in this country is both a problem and a significant danger, and the Right just doesn't want to admit that. See #3.

5. The Left appears to be completely disinterested in the fact that "The Rich" pay attention to things the Left says and does that create dis-incentives. See #3.

6. The Left appears to have virtually no understanding of, or interest in, the psychology of business. They create dis-incentives (both real and perceived) and wonder why business reacts the way it does.

7. The Right is now so utterly clueless about the importance of messaging and so paralyzed by its libertarian components that it's currently reduced to simplistic, absolutist thinking that makes it an easy target for the Left.

8. When people who have sacrificed, worked hard, stayed disciplined and become successful are looked at with disdain, anger and distrust, you've really turned a corner, and we have. See #6 and #7.

Okay, barf completed.

.

 

[zeke]

Hey Boss, how did you amass your 100 million dollar fortune?
You do have 100 million? Right?

If not, why don't you? Wealth is infinite (according to you). So why don't you have more money than you could ever spend in two life times? Why don't we all have 100 million. When something is infinite, we all should have a large share. Makes the world go round easier.

Believe me when I tell you that for a poor person in this country, wealth is finite.
For a middle class person wealth is finite.
For an ultra wealthy person, wealth is not finite. Cause they got all the money to begin with. And when you already have the money and you are able to buy your politicians then amassing great wealth at the expense of others may be infinite.

Certainly the desire from the moneyed class is to amass infinite wealth. So far their plan is working. The ultra wealthy never had it so good. Or had as much money. Or as favorable of tax treatment.

 

[Boss]

There is no war on the rich, what you see as a war is simply the tension that has always existed in human society between the moneyed class and everyone else. The people with the bulk of the wealth naturally want to run things for their benefit and naturally go too far if allowed. It seems there is always those who side with the elite because they think their livelihood depends on it. Were it actually a war these people would be called "collaborators" but since it is just the natural tension in a stratified society we just call them "conservatives".

We are now in a situation where our wealth class gets it's labor elsewhere and therefore no longer needs our working class nearly as much as in decades past. Wages have stagnated, fringe benefits are not what they used to be, no one was job security anymore, the wealthy have been allowed to openly buy elections and the voice of the great American working class has been all but silenced. From my perspective the war is all but over and the billionaires have won.

And the billionaires are always going to win, that's my point. How stupid is it to wage a war on an enemy you can never defeat? Blowing cannonballs through your hull in the process. The dumbest idea in the history of man.

All the symptoms you mentioned are the result of waging war on the rich. There are no "classes" in America. People will move in and out of the three levels of 'class' you are distinguishing, numerous times within their lives. No one is relegated to a "class" in our system.

Yes, wealthy people, both liberal and conservative, will try to buy political power... that's why it's important to elect people with high moral character.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I see the green eyed monster again rears its head.

It must be tough to live being so jealous of everyone that has a little more than you.

 

[Boss]

Hey Boss, how did you amass your 100 million dollar fortune?
You do have 100 million? Right?

If not, why don't you? Wealth is infinite (according to you). So why don't you have more money than you could ever spend in two life times? Why don't we all have 100 million. When something is infinite, we all should have a large share. Makes the world go round easier.

Believe me when I tell you that for a poor person in this country, wealth is finite.
For a middle class person wealth is finite.
For an ultra wealthy person, wealth is not finite. Cause they got all the money to begin with. And when you already have the money and you are able to buy your politicians then amassing great wealth at the expense of others may be infinite.

Certainly the desire from the moneyed class is to amass infinite wealth. So far their plan is working. The ultra wealthy never had it so good. Or had as much money. Or as favorable of tax treatment.

My old running buddy from high school is now listed in the Fortune 500's 50-richest Americans. He and I came from the same general background, were best friends, our families were friends. We were all "working class" families in a small Alabama town. Now he is one of the 50-richest in the country.

So what was the difference between he and I? Well... he has this 'way' about him, he's always had it.... always had something going. Always making money. I wasn't as inclined, found things that interested me more than making money. But that's how this all works, the people who have this ability are really good at it.

Every person in this country can have their share, there is no limit to wealth. It just has to be created. The first step is to stop convincing yourself it is finite. If you're thinking that way, you're going nowhere and it will cause you to make really stupid choices for your future.

 

[occupied]

There is no war on the rich, what you see as a war is simply the tension that has always existed in human society between the moneyed class and everyone else. The people with the bulk of the wealth naturally want to run things for their benefit and naturally go too far if allowed. It seems there is always those who side with the elite because they think their livelihood depends on it. Were it actually a war these people would be called "collaborators" but since it is just the natural tension in a stratified society we just call them "conservatives".

We are now in a situation where our wealth class gets it's labor elsewhere and therefore no longer needs our working class nearly as much as in decades past. Wages have stagnated, fringe benefits are not what they used to be, no one was job security anymore, the wealthy have been allowed to openly buy elections and the voice of the great American working class has been all but silenced. From my perspective the war is all but over and the billionaires have won.

And the billionaires are always going to win, that's my point. How stupid is it to wage a war on an enemy you can never defeat? Blowing cannonballs through your hull in the process. The dumbest idea in the history of man.

All the symptoms you mentioned are the result of waging war on the rich. There are no "classes" in America. People will move in and out of the three levels of 'class' you are distinguishing, numerous times within their lives. No one is relegated to a "class" in our system.

Yes, wealthy people, both liberal and conservative, will try to buy political power... that's why it's important to elect people with high moral character.

Can't beat-em so join them and shut up? Not on your life.

The economic mobility you mention is not what it used to be, it is one of the serious flaws in our system that is going to upset the applecart if allowed to continue.

Money does the talking in America, politics does not attract people of high moral character and never has, putting faith in politicians is foolhardy, they have already shown a willingness to play ball before they get anywhere near national office.

Collective action and mass movements work, too bad all you conservatives see is commies wanting free stuff, all anyone wants is to be able to make hard work mean something more than survival. The life of an American working person is that of a shipwreck survivor treading water, how can anyone be content with that?

 

[LeftofLeft]

Nothing wrong with being rich as long as you contribute to the society that supports you

When "society" takes taxpayer dollars and spends $2.6M to study the effects on alcohol among Chinese prostitutes, that is a sign of bloat and "society" has gone beyond support.

 

[rightwinger]

Nothing wrong with being rich as long as you contribute to the society that supports you

When "society" takes taxpayer dollars and spends $2.6M to study the effects on alcohol among Chinese prostitutes, that is a sign of bloat and "society" has gone beyond support.

What was the purpose of that study and what were its findings? Before you proclaim it a waste, maybe you could explain why?

 

[Boss]

Looks to me like the class war is over, the rich won.

Again... This is the kind of propaganda you believe when you think wealth is finite.

Propaganda? If decrying the sorry state of wealth distribution is propaganda then what is your cheerleading for a flawed system that clearly leaves so many in want? Look at the reality of things, sure there is wealth being generated but not by wage earners. We do not have a perfect system, it is not a class war to examine the flaws and attempt to address them.

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

 

[rightwinger]

The rich have been benefitting from a nation built around supply side economics. Low taxes and deregulation. They have used that economic structure to gain more wealth and protect it from taxes
They now feel threatened because those expecting trickle down of some of that wealth saw it never materialize
Thankfully, the rich have people like the OP looking out for their interests

 

[occupied]

Looks to me like the class war is over, the rich won.

Again... This is the kind of propaganda you believe when you think wealth is finite.

Propaganda? If decrying the sorry state of wealth distribution is propaganda then what is your cheerleading for a flawed system that clearly leaves so many in want? Look at the reality of things, sure there is wealth being generated but not by wage earners. We do not have a perfect system, it is not a class war to examine the flaws and attempt to address them.

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

 

[jknowgood]

The wealth of any nation is finite. The more of it the rich concentrate in their own hands, the less there is left for everyone else.

Wrong! Wealth is NOT finite, it is infinite. People generate wealth through their labor, creativity, talents, etc. This is your key problem, the failure to understand wealth is not finite. When you believe such a fallacy, it causes you to think the wealthy should only become so wealthy else the poor can never become wealthy. It makes you believe there is only so much wealth and the wealthy have it all.

The truth is, wealth is generated, so wealth is limitless. Now the people who are wealthy in a nation, especially a free market economy nation like our own, generally got wealthy because they were smart with their money, were successful at free market capitalism, and had the drive, motivation and ambition to succeed. Many came from abject poverty to become wealthy. Seems to me, the really "smart" person might want to listen to them, learn from them, try to emulate them and find out about how they were successful.

Just total opposite of what you want to do.

How can wealth be infinite. Is the annual GDP number 'infinity'?

A nation can only generate so much wealth per year; the more of it the Rich keep, the less for the rest of us.

Without the rich, you will not receive your welfare check. So quit complaining.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The wealth of any nation is finite. The more of it the rich concentrate in their own hands, the less there is left for everyone else.

A proven lie.

It's mathematically impossible to divide a pie into pieces that then add up to a sum bigger than the original pie.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Looks to me like the class war is over, the rich won.

Again... This is the kind of propaganda you believe when you think wealth is finite.

Propaganda? If decrying the sorry state of wealth distribution is propaganda then what is your cheerleading for a flawed system that clearly leaves so many in want? Look at the reality of things, sure there is wealth being generated but not by wage earners. We do not have a perfect system, it is not a class war to examine the flaws and attempt to address them.

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

If wealth is infinite, why do you people like you complain so much about wealth redistribution?

If wealth is in infinite supply, why would you care who gets how much? Why would care that a government program gives the poor some of that wealth if it is coming from an infinite source?

 

[rightwinger]

Looks to me like the class war is over, the rich won.

Again... This is the kind of propaganda you believe when you think wealth is finite.

Propaganda? If decrying the sorry state of wealth distribution is propaganda then what is your cheerleading for a flawed system that clearly leaves so many in want? Look at the reality of things, sure there is wealth being generated but not by wage earners. We do not have a perfect system, it is not a class war to examine the flaws and attempt to address them.

Yes, propaganda. There's no problem with wealth distribution. There is a problem with people who think wealth is finite. As you admit here, wealth is genertated. Therefore, not finite. And yes, the so-called "middle class" actually generate more wealth than any other group just through their sheer numbers. The poor tend to not generate as much wealth, but that's generally why they are poor. Now maybe they are just not motivated, maybe they are downright lazy, or maybe they've been convinced wealth is finite and it's not their fault, and nothing can be done for them because they are just poor.

Our system is not flawed in any way. Again, our system has created more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. If not, give me an example of one that tops it? Good luck with that!

Our system has all but stopped creating middle-class wealth, the part that allows poor people through hard work and dedication to level up is not currently working as it should. Something about the great recession short-circuited it. It's far too easy to blame poor people for being lazy than to look at the structural flaws that keep people where they are in spite of any amount of diligence. The high cost of a quality education is one such barrier along with the millstone of debt that accompanies it. Flat wages are another problem, if a rising tide raises all boats than wages would have been keeping pace with the cost of living but they have not. The trouble is that you are looking too much at the people who started the race to the top at the finish line instead of the bottom.

What the middle class has lost is the ability to build generational wealth and move up the economic ladder over time. It now takes two salaries to break even. If you are lucky and healthy, you can retire somewhat comfortably
But the days where you could expect to be more successful than your parents are gone