Wall for strong gun control

[Toddsterpatriot]

Moron, we already have 20,000 gun control laws at all levels of government...what we need is criminal control..but unfortunately, the democrat party keeps letting known, violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail.....stop them from doing this and we reduce our crime rate over night.....

And on the plus side....as more law abiding citizens over the last 26 years have gone out and bought guns...and now actually carry them...our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate has gone down 75%, and our violent crime rate has gone down 72%.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

Again, when criminals use straw buyers, who can pass background checks, or they steal their guns....how do background checks magically stop criminals from getting guns? Please, explain....

Then explain how your argument...that more guns in the hands of more law abiding people causes more crime.....fits in with the truth that as more law abiding Americans own and carry guns...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our violent crime rate went down 72%....

Explain that part of your argument.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Was the drop due to the background checks, or because we jailed more criminals for a longer time?

Neither is true.
Crime has been on a steady decrease for the last century, and there was no sudden drop in the early 90s.
A more accurate statement would there was a slight rise in the early 90s that went back down by the late 90s.

Was the drop due to the background checks, or because we jailed more criminals for a longer time?

Neither is true....and there was no sudden drop in the early 90s.

Every criminal they put away wasn't on the streets to continue committing crimes. Your source shows the rate dropping from near 50 in 1993, to 27.4 in 2000. That's huge!!!

"Why do we have so many people in jail with the crime rate falling?"
What else is the crime rate going to do when you lock up the criminals?

 

[2aguy]

Gun laws don't stop crime....locking up actual criminals stops crime...

Gun Control Fail: California Firearm Homicides Up 18 Percent

California has universal background checks, gun registration requirements, red flag laws (i.e., Gun Violence Restraining Orders), a ten-day waiting period for gun purchases, an “assault weapons” ban, a one-gun-per-month limit on handgun purchases, a minimum firearm purchase age of 21, a ban on campus carry, a “good cause” restriction for concealed carry permit issuance, and controls on the purchase of ammunition. The ammunition controls limit law-abiding Californians to buying ammunition from state-approved vendors–all of whom are in-state sellers–and adds a fee to any ammunition bought online, also requiring that ammunition to be shipped to a state-approved vendor for pickup.
-------
Additionally, the state mandates gun free zones in businesses where alcohol is sold for on-site consumption. Therefore, the few concealed carry permit holders in the state must enter myriad restaurants without any means of self-defense. This provides a target-rich environment for attackers who want to be sure no one can shoot back when they strike. We last saw this on November 7, 2018, when an attacker opened fire with a handgun in the gun-free Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, California.

Despite all the stringent gun controls a bill filed by Assemblyman Marc Levine (CA-D-10) admits California firearm homicides were up between from 2014 to 2016. The bill says, “Although California has the toughest gun laws in the nation, more effort is necessary to curtail gun violence.

The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation found that from 2014 to 2016 gun homicides increased 18 percent.” In light of this gun control failure the language of the bill goes on to suggest more gun control.

And what barriers are there to driving into California with illegal guns? None.

Dittos every other state.....

And yet, as more Americans own and carry guns the gun crime rate went down, not up....which completely discredits your beliefs about guns in this country.

 

[P@triot]

It’s funny - we are told by the Dumbocrats that walls don’t work, that walls are “immoral”, and that illegals should be welcomed under any circumstances. And yet, oddly, when illegals went to Nancy Pelosi’s residence, not only were there many walls, but Nancy immediately panicked, called 911, and demanded that law enforcement remove the very same illegal aliens that she states should be welcomed, fed, and sheltered by all of us!

The controversial journalist even went to check if the Pelosis had locked their front door, since, according to a sarcastic Loomer, "only bigots lock their doors. Come on, you can't say everyone is welcome here and then lock your door," said Loomer, upon finding the doors locked. "You're killing us, Nancy! You're killing us!" Police officers were soon called to the property and asked for identification from the illegals and Loomer and company. "I was told IDs were racist," Loomer repeatedly tells the officers. "I'm so confused."

Typical do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do Dumbocrat! As Andrew Wilkow always says, “socialism is for the people - not the socialist”.

WATCH: Laura Loomer Brings Illegal Immigrants To Nancy Pelosi's Home. Pelosi Has Police Remove Them.

 

[P@triot]

When ya take a good look around at american society, the only coherent conclusion is, we hate us.

That is certainly true of the left.

 

[H B Lowrie]

When ya take a good look around at american society, the only coherent conclusion is, we hate us.

That is certainly true of the left.

Nah, it's true of the US, that's why we sneer at each other so.

 

[elongobardi]

Gun laws don't stop crime....locking up actual criminals stops crime...

Gun Control Fail: California Firearm Homicides Up 18 Percent

California has universal background checks, gun registration requirements, red flag laws (i.e., Gun Violence Restraining Orders), a ten-day waiting period for gun purchases, an “assault weapons” ban, a one-gun-per-month limit on handgun purchases, a minimum firearm purchase age of 21, a ban on campus carry, a “good cause” restriction for concealed carry permit issuance, and controls on the purchase of ammunition. The ammunition controls limit law-abiding Californians to buying ammunition from state-approved vendors–all of whom are in-state sellers–and adds a fee to any ammunition bought online, also requiring that ammunition to be shipped to a state-approved vendor for pickup.
-------
Additionally, the state mandates gun free zones in businesses where alcohol is sold for on-site consumption. Therefore, the few concealed carry permit holders in the state must enter myriad restaurants without any means of self-defense. This provides a target-rich environment for attackers who want to be sure no one can shoot back when they strike. We last saw this on November 7, 2018, when an attacker opened fire with a handgun in the gun-free Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, California.

Despite all the stringent gun controls a bill filed by Assemblyman Marc Levine (CA-D-10) admits California firearm homicides were up between from 2014 to 2016. The bill says, “Although California has the toughest gun laws in the nation, more effort is necessary to curtail gun violence.

The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation found that from 2014 to 2016 gun homicides increased 18 percent.” In light of this gun control failure the language of the bill goes on to suggest more gun control.

And what barriers are there to driving into California with illegal guns? None.

Dittos every other state.....

And yet, as more Americans own and carry guns the gun crime rate went down, not up....which completely discredits your beliefs about guns in this country.

So true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[elongobardi]

When ya take a good look around at american society, the only coherent conclusion is, we hate us.

That is certainly true of the left.

Nah, it's true of the US, that's why we sneer at each other so.

Still spewing your ignorance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[elongobardi]

When ya take a good look around at american society, the only coherent conclusion is, we hate us.

That is certainly true of the left.

Patriot. Pay him no mind. He is a moron that likes to here himself with his ignorant fact less posts


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[evenflow1969]

Wha

View attachment 239682

Or FUCK NO...

That's an option also...


.

Thats the only option for the wall. HELL THE FUCK NO!!!!

I actually don't think a wall is necessary....Repeal and abolish the socialistic welfare freebie state, and the problem goes away on its own.

But Marxist moonbats like you will never have that, so you tee up band-aid answers like a wall for the other side.

what is going on here all of a sudden in the last few threads I see you on you are making a great deal more sense. Fuck the wall and fuck gun control both limit freedom. I look around at most walls and fences and quickly realize I prefer to be on the out side of most of them. Quit the fear mongering as long as I can carry a fire arm what the fuck is there to be afraid of, we need less cops,less walls,less laws,less jails and more freedom. Our freedom is disappearing so fast it is crazy. With camaras every where, facial ID on the real ID and RFID starting to show up every where. Trump even said in one of his speaches we will need to ID to buy or sale. Facial rec of the fore head and rfid in the right hand.; This is the perfect refrence for the mark of the beast. Quit givi g up freedom and privacy for security. Stand in your boots or die on your knees. The mark will not be given to me.

Revelation 13:16-18 - And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Real ID can suck my balls rise against it! Looks as though we get both marks.

 

[The Original Tree]

Automatic Death Penalty and Public Hangings or Beheadings and Firing Squads for the following Crimes:

Abortion-Infanticide
Honor Killings
Rape
Pedophilia
Prostitution
Drug Trafficking
Kidnapping
Murder
Using a weapon of any sort to commit a crime.
Accepting Donations & Gifts from Lobbyists



Then 100% Deportation for All Illegal Aliens. There are 20 Million right now.
Strict Immigration Law, Merit Based only with No Quotas, and No Asylum Allowances
National Voter ID.

A Coast to Coast Wall on both The North Border and South Border, complete with Lasers, Landmines Alligators, Piranhas, Moats, Machine Gun Turrets.

In addition to that, I want it to be illegal for an Illegal Alien to fill out a Census Form punishable by Hard Labor building The Wall, and Illegal for them to Apply for any Public Assistance, and I want Sharia Law outlawed in The United States, and I want the 130 year old rule of No Head Coverings implemented in Congress again, as well as make saying The Pledge of Allegiance Mandatory every morning at all Public Schools.

You do all that, and then we'll consider your gun control ideas.

 

[bripat9643]

Automatic Death Penalty and Public Hangings or Beheadings and Firing Squads for the following Crimes:

Abortion-Infanticide
Rape
Pedophilia
Prostitution
Drug Trafficking
Kidnapping
Murder
Using a weapon of any sort to commit a crime.
Accepting Donations & Gifts from Lobbyists


Then 100% Deportation for All Illegal Aliens. There are 20 Million right now.
Strict Immigration Law, Merit Based only with No Quotas, and No Asylum Allowances
National Voter ID
A Coast to Coast Wall on both The North Border and South Border, complete with Lasers, Landmines Alligators, Piranhas, Moats, Machine Gun Turrets.

You do all that, and then we'll consider your gun control ideas.

I agree with Pedophilia, Kidnapping and Murder, not the others.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

No

Keep your wall because Guns are not the issue and you have laws already your side refuses to enforce.

That is totally ridiculous. I am against the wall, but gun control is what makes a country dangerous.

We have great law enforcement. What we need is stricter laws. Even angry kids have no problem getting guns in this country. The Swiss have lots of guns and a low homicide rates. What they have are much better laws.

There is totally easy access to guns by anyone in Switzerland.
Laws have nothing at all to do with low homicide rates except that when you have unfair laws that make people frustrated or angry, that will increase crime greatly.
Almost every house has a machinegun, and it is not hard for angry kids to gain access to them if they want to.
How is a minor gun law penalty going to deter someone bent on murder, the highest possible penalty?
Makes no sense at all to even begin to consider gun laws as possibly reducing crime.
It is the other way around, where harsh laws are what causes more crime.
If you took Swiss and forced them to obey the corrupt and draconian laws in the US, they would likely want to kill people too.

That’s a stupid statement. Any legal citizen gun owner knows how to keep there gun safe so children can’t get to them. It’s called a safe. I don’t care what my kids do they will never be able to get into them. Your talking about people who don’t own guns legally just put them anywhere. So your argument is bull-it and it’s just liberal whining. You better ban cars, drugs and disease while your at it. Amazing the crap the liberals spew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That makes no sense at all, because if you are not home, who is going to protect the children?
Children need firearm access in emergencies as well, and that is why the tradition always used to be a shotgun over the mantel piece.
Switzerland does not use gun safes.

{...
Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.
...

“We will never change our attitude about the responsible use of weapons by law-abiding citizens,” says Hermann Suter, vice president of Pro-Tell, the country’s gun lobby, named after legendary apple shooter William Tell, who used a crossbow to target enemies long before firearms were invented.
...
Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report.

Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland’s gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment’s assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com
...}

Obviously banning something can not prevent it, and defense is an inherent individual right.

From you link, the Swiss have much stronger gun laws than the US.

But the “gun in every closet” tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland’s recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.

The authorities made one concession, though: since 2008, all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes. The debate culminated in a nationwide referendum last year, when 56% of voters rejected the proposal initiated by anti-gun organizations to ban army rifles from homes altogether.

My shotgun is more dangerous than any Ar-15 with just buck shot, and most people do not even know that.

Again it is not the firearm that is the issue and also Switzerland population is a fraction of our Nation Population but of course you will not accept that and compare apples to oranges.

So again no on your gun control laws because you have enough laws already and Florida officials along with the Federal Government failed twice when they could have prevented a mass shooting...

That depends on what the range is. Shotguns are perfect for in-home defense. Not too much over-penetration and will mess something up. Shotgun vs. AR (grr, little bitty bullets) @ 100 yards is a different story.


No strong gun control! Citizens should have full, unfettered access to suppressors and full auto. Without tax stamps and class III and waiting for government bureaucracy and all that shit.

 

[The Original Tree]

Automatic Death Penalty and Public Hangings or Beheadings and Firing Squads for the following Crimes:

Abortion-Infanticide
Rape
Pedophilia
Prostitution
Drug Trafficking
Kidnapping
Murder
Using a weapon of any sort to commit a crime.
Accepting Donations & Gifts from Lobbyists


Then 100% Deportation for All Illegal Aliens. There are 20 Million right now.
Strict Immigration Law, Merit Based only with No Quotas, and No Asylum Allowances
National Voter ID
A Coast to Coast Wall on both The North Border and South Border, complete with Lasers, Landmines Alligators, Piranhas, Moats, Machine Gun Turrets.

You do all that, and then we'll consider your gun control ideas.

I agree with Pedophilia, Kidnapping and Murder, not the others.

Sharia Law American Style is The Price for Disarming America if that's what Lefty Wants.

I suppose we can cut off hands and blind people for the other crimes.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

No

Keep your wall because Guns are not the issue and you have laws already your side refuses to enforce.

That is totally ridiculous. I am against the wall, but gun control is what makes a country dangerous.

There is totally easy access to guns by anyone in Switzerland.
Laws have nothing at all to do with low homicide rates except that when you have unfair laws that make people frustrated or angry, that will increase crime greatly.
Almost every house has a machinegun, and it is not hard for angry kids to gain access to them if they want to.
How is a minor gun law penalty going to deter someone bent on murder, the highest possible penalty?
Makes no sense at all to even begin to consider gun laws as possibly reducing crime.
It is the other way around, where harsh laws are what causes more crime.
If you took Swiss and forced them to obey the corrupt and draconian laws in the US, they would likely want to kill people too.

That’s a stupid statement. Any legal citizen gun owner knows how to keep there gun safe so children can’t get to them. It’s called a safe. I don’t care what my kids do they will never be able to get into them. Your talking about people who don’t own guns legally just put them anywhere. So your argument is bull-it and it’s just liberal whining. You better ban cars, drugs and disease while your at it. Amazing the crap the liberals spew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That makes no sense at all, because if you are not home, who is going to protect the children?
Children need firearm access in emergencies as well, and that is why the tradition always used to be a shotgun over the mantel piece.
Switzerland does not use gun safes.

{...
Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.
...

“We will never change our attitude about the responsible use of weapons by law-abiding citizens,” says Hermann Suter, vice president of Pro-Tell, the country’s gun lobby, named after legendary apple shooter William Tell, who used a crossbow to target enemies long before firearms were invented.
...
Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report.

Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland’s gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment’s assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com
...}

Obviously banning something can not prevent it, and defense is an inherent individual right.

From you link, the Swiss have much stronger gun laws than the US.

But the “gun in every closet” tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland’s recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.

The authorities made one concession, though: since 2008, all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes. The debate culminated in a nationwide referendum last year, when 56% of voters rejected the proposal initiated by anti-gun organizations to ban army rifles from homes altogether.

My shotgun is more dangerous than any Ar-15 with just buck shot, and most people do not even know that.

Again it is not the firearm that is the issue and also Switzerland population is a fraction of our Nation Population but of course you will not accept that and compare apples to oranges.

So again no on your gun control laws because you have enough laws already and Florida officials along with the Federal Government failed twice when they could have prevented a mass shooting...

That depends on what the range is. Shotguns are perfect for in-home defense. Not too much over-penetration and will mess something up. Shotgun vs. AR (grr, little bitty bullets) @ 100 yards is a different story.

True but still I prefer my shotgun and you know it will do the job.

 

[OldLady]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

That's a great idea.

 

[Marion Morrison]

No

Keep your wall because Guns are not the issue and you have laws already your side refuses to enforce.

That is totally ridiculous. I am against the wall, but gun control is what makes a country dangerous.

That’s a stupid statement. Any legal citizen gun owner knows how to keep there gun safe so children can’t get to them. It’s called a safe. I don’t care what my kids do they will never be able to get into them. Your talking about people who don’t own guns legally just put them anywhere. So your argument is bull-it and it’s just liberal whining. You better ban cars, drugs and disease while your at it. Amazing the crap the liberals spew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That makes no sense at all, because if you are not home, who is going to protect the children?
Children need firearm access in emergencies as well, and that is why the tradition always used to be a shotgun over the mantel piece.
Switzerland does not use gun safes.

{...
Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.
...

“We will never change our attitude about the responsible use of weapons by law-abiding citizens,” says Hermann Suter, vice president of Pro-Tell, the country’s gun lobby, named after legendary apple shooter William Tell, who used a crossbow to target enemies long before firearms were invented.
...
Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report.

Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland’s gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment’s assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com
...}

Obviously banning something can not prevent it, and defense is an inherent individual right.

From you link, the Swiss have much stronger gun laws than the US.

But the “gun in every closet” tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland’s recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.

The authorities made one concession, though: since 2008, all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes. The debate culminated in a nationwide referendum last year, when 56% of voters rejected the proposal initiated by anti-gun organizations to ban army rifles from homes altogether.

My shotgun is more dangerous than any Ar-15 with just buck shot, and most people do not even know that.

Again it is not the firearm that is the issue and also Switzerland population is a fraction of our Nation Population but of course you will not accept that and compare apples to oranges.

So again no on your gun control laws because you have enough laws already and Florida officials along with the Federal Government failed twice when they could have prevented a mass shooting...

That depends on what the range is. Shotguns are perfect for in-home defense. Not too much over-penetration and will mess something up. Shotgun vs. AR (grr, little bitty bullets) @ 100 yards is a different story.

True but still I prefer my shotgun and you know it will do the job.

From in the house to in the yard (unless it's a big 'un) a shotgun is the best weapon for f'ing something up with less risk of overpenetration. 12-20 gauge 4-shot or bigger.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

That's a great idea.

Don't make me channel SFC. :/

I remember Brain357 from the other forum, claims to own guns but can't name any of them.

Total anti-gun every post.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

That is totally ridiculous. I am against the wall, but gun control is what makes a country dangerous.
That makes no sense at all, because if you are not home, who is going to protect the children?
Children need firearm access in emergencies as well, and that is why the tradition always used to be a shotgun over the mantel piece.
Switzerland does not use gun safes.

{...
Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.
...

“We will never change our attitude about the responsible use of weapons by law-abiding citizens,” says Hermann Suter, vice president of Pro-Tell, the country’s gun lobby, named after legendary apple shooter William Tell, who used a crossbow to target enemies long before firearms were invented.
...
Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report.

Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland’s gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment’s assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com
...}

Obviously banning something can not prevent it, and defense is an inherent individual right.

From you link, the Swiss have much stronger gun laws than the US.

But the “gun in every closet” tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland’s recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.

The authorities made one concession, though: since 2008, all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes. The debate culminated in a nationwide referendum last year, when 56% of voters rejected the proposal initiated by anti-gun organizations to ban army rifles from homes altogether.

My shotgun is more dangerous than any Ar-15 with just buck shot, and most people do not even know that.

Again it is not the firearm that is the issue and also Switzerland population is a fraction of our Nation Population but of course you will not accept that and compare apples to oranges.

So again no on your gun control laws because you have enough laws already and Florida officials along with the Federal Government failed twice when they could have prevented a mass shooting...

That depends on what the range is. Shotguns are perfect for in-home defense. Not too much over-penetration and will mess something up. Shotgun vs. AR (grr, little bitty bullets) @ 100 yards is a different story.

True but still I prefer my shotgun and you know it will do the job.

From in the house to in the yard (unless it's a big 'un) a shotgun is the best weapon for f'ing something up with less risk of overpenetration. 12-20 gauge 4-shot or bigger.

Buck shot in a pump action that holds five below and one in the chamber does wonders...

 

[Marion Morrison]

From you link, the Swiss have much stronger gun laws than the US.

But the “gun in every closet” tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland’s recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.

The authorities made one concession, though: since 2008, all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes. The debate culminated in a nationwide referendum last year, when 56% of voters rejected the proposal initiated by anti-gun organizations to ban army rifles from homes altogether.

My shotgun is more dangerous than any Ar-15 with just buck shot, and most people do not even know that.

Again it is not the firearm that is the issue and also Switzerland population is a fraction of our Nation Population but of course you will not accept that and compare apples to oranges.

So again no on your gun control laws because you have enough laws already and Florida officials along with the Federal Government failed twice when they could have prevented a mass shooting...

That depends on what the range is. Shotguns are perfect for in-home defense. Not too much over-penetration and will mess something up. Shotgun vs. AR (grr, little bitty bullets) @ 100 yards is a different story.

True but still I prefer my shotgun and you know it will do the job.

From in the house to in the yard (unless it's a big 'un) a shotgun is the best weapon for f'ing something up with less risk of overpenetration. 12-20 gauge 4-shot or bigger.

Buck shot in a pump action that holds five below and one in the chamber does wonders...

I wouldn't recommend running up on granny with an old 12 gauge coach gun, either.

 

[easyt65]

'Wall for strong gun control'?

A small gesture, agreeing to something to keep America safe which should have been built decades ago, which was promised but never fully delivered by the ones making this offer now, in exchange for agreeing to allow them to infringe on Constitutional Rights...a 1st step in their never-ending crusade to strip Americans of their guns?

Yeah, no thanks.