Wall for strong gun control

[2aguy]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

Moron, we already have 20,000 gun control laws at all levels of government...what we need is criminal control..but unfortunately, the democrat party keeps letting known, violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail.....stop them from doing this and we reduce our crime rate over night.....

And on the plus side....as more law abiding citizens over the last 26 years have gone out and bought guns...and now actually carry them...our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate has gone down 75%, and our violent crime rate has gone down 72%.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

The point is that the fact we have millions of armed law abiders out there, our violent crime rate is going down.

A lot of older people like myself would face certain death on the streets if the criminal element didn't think we were packing heat. My mum, example given, is 88 years old. Some young thug comes up to her what chance would she have if she wasn't armed?

Look at countries with strong gun control. They have much lower homicide rates. Their mums are much safer.

They always had lower murder rates...they don't murder each other as part of their values and culture....until now, when they have imported violent 3rd world males into their countries who don't share their values and culture...now the crime rates in all of those countries are skyrocketing.....including gun crime.

 

[Brain357]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

Moron, we already have 20,000 gun control laws at all levels of government...what we need is criminal control..but unfortunately, the democrat party keeps letting known, violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail.....stop them from doing this and we reduce our crime rate over night.....

And on the plus side....as more law abiding citizens over the last 26 years have gone out and bought guns...and now actually carry them...our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate has gone down 75%, and our violent crime rate has gone down 72%.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

Again, when criminals use straw buyers, who can pass background checks, or they steal their guns....how do background checks magically stop criminals from getting guns? Please, explain....

Then explain how your argument...that more guns in the hands of more law abiding people causes more crime.....fits in with the truth that as more law abiding Americans own and carry guns...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our violent crime rate went down 72%....

Explain that part of your argument.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Nope...... you can't explain how background checks stopped crime when criminals use straw buyers....who can pass background checks and then give the guns to criminals, or the criminal simply steal the guns...you can't explain how background checks worked....

You can't explain how more Americans with more guns didn't increase any of the crime rates....another thing you can't explain.

What is there to explain? We got some gun control and gun crime dropped like a rock.

 

[2aguy]

My shotgun is more dangerous than any Ar-15 with just buck shot, and most people do not even know that.

Again it is not the firearm that is the issue and also Switzerland population is a fraction of our Nation Population but of course you will not accept that and compare apples to oranges.

So again no on your gun control laws because you have enough laws already and Florida officials along with the Federal Government failed twice when they could have prevented a mass shooting...

Yes they do have a small population. Germany has a pretty big population though. They have strong gun control and a much lower homicide rate than ours.

And it has nothing to do with their gun control laws....since they actually have a high rate of gun ownership in Germany, you doofus.....the Germans only commit mass murder in the millions...like the 12 million innocent men, women and children they murdered in their death camps.....but you forgot about those people...you moron...

Ah so you bring up ancient history. How many are still alive from that time? Germany has strong gun control.

Until they do it again.....the 12 million their government murdered is a higher number than all the victims of gun murder in this country over the same time period.....it isn't even close......you just prefer the government commit the murder rather than individual criminals.

Yes you are still scared of Nazis. Is that really all you have? Hitler is long dead.

As are the 12 million people the German government murdered.....unarmed people.....

 

[Brain357]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

Moron, we already have 20,000 gun control laws at all levels of government...what we need is criminal control..but unfortunately, the democrat party keeps letting known, violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail.....stop them from doing this and we reduce our crime rate over night.....

And on the plus side....as more law abiding citizens over the last 26 years have gone out and bought guns...and now actually carry them...our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate has gone down 75%, and our violent crime rate has gone down 72%.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

The point is that the fact we have millions of armed law abiders out there, our violent crime rate is going down.

A lot of older people like myself would face certain death on the streets if the criminal element didn't think we were packing heat. My mum, example given, is 88 years old. Some young thug comes up to her what chance would she have if she wasn't armed?

Look at countries with strong gun control. They have much lower homicide rates. Their mums are much safer.

They always had lower murder rates...they don't murder each other as part of their values and culture....until now, when they have imported violent 3rd world males into their countries who don't share their values and culture...now the crime rates in all of those countries are skyrocketing.....including gun crime.

Of course they have had lower murder rates. They have never had a gun culture like ours.

 

[Brain357]

Yes they do have a small population. Germany has a pretty big population though. They have strong gun control and a much lower homicide rate than ours.

And it has nothing to do with their gun control laws....since they actually have a high rate of gun ownership in Germany, you doofus.....the Germans only commit mass murder in the millions...like the 12 million innocent men, women and children they murdered in their death camps.....but you forgot about those people...you moron...

Ah so you bring up ancient history. How many are still alive from that time? Germany has strong gun control.

Until they do it again.....the 12 million their government murdered is a higher number than all the victims of gun murder in this country over the same time period.....it isn't even close......you just prefer the government commit the murder rather than individual criminals.

Yes you are still scared of Nazis. Is that really all you have? Hitler is long dead.

As are the 12 million people the German government murdered.....unarmed people.....

Sure you keep worrying about Nazis. When you have some real arguments let me know.

 

[2aguy]

Moron, we already have 20,000 gun control laws at all levels of government...what we need is criminal control..but unfortunately, the democrat party keeps letting known, violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail.....stop them from doing this and we reduce our crime rate over night.....

And on the plus side....as more law abiding citizens over the last 26 years have gone out and bought guns...and now actually carry them...our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate has gone down 75%, and our violent crime rate has gone down 72%.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

Again, when criminals use straw buyers, who can pass background checks, or they steal their guns....how do background checks magically stop criminals from getting guns? Please, explain....

Then explain how your argument...that more guns in the hands of more law abiding people causes more crime.....fits in with the truth that as more law abiding Americans own and carry guns...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our violent crime rate went down 72%....

Explain that part of your argument.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Nope...... you can't explain how background checks stopped crime when criminals use straw buyers....who can pass background checks and then give the guns to criminals, or the criminal simply steal the guns...you can't explain how background checks worked....

You can't explain how more Americans with more guns didn't increase any of the crime rates....another thing you can't explain.

What is there to explain? We got some gun control and gun crime dropped like a rock.

Nope.....you are a moron.....background checks do nothing, since criminals use straw buyers or steal their guns....

And you have to pretend not to realize that more Americans with more Guns did not raise the crime rates...the exact opposite of what you morons claim would happen...

 

[Brain357]

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

Again, when criminals use straw buyers, who can pass background checks, or they steal their guns....how do background checks magically stop criminals from getting guns? Please, explain....

Then explain how your argument...that more guns in the hands of more law abiding people causes more crime.....fits in with the truth that as more law abiding Americans own and carry guns...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our violent crime rate went down 72%....

Explain that part of your argument.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Nope...... you can't explain how background checks stopped crime when criminals use straw buyers....who can pass background checks and then give the guns to criminals, or the criminal simply steal the guns...you can't explain how background checks worked....

You can't explain how more Americans with more guns didn't increase any of the crime rates....another thing you can't explain.

What is there to explain? We got some gun control and gun crime dropped like a rock.

Nope.....you are a moron.....background checks do nothing, since criminals use straw buyers or steal their guns....

And you have to pretend not to realize that more Americans with more Guns did not raise the crime rates...the exact opposite of what you morons claim would happen...

Funny claim given that our gun crime dropped like a rock right after we got background checks. It will happen again after universal background checks.

 

[2aguy]

Gun laws don't stop crime....locking up actual criminals stops crime...

Gun Control Fail: California Firearm Homicides Up 18 Percent

California has universal background checks, gun registration requirements, red flag laws (i.e., Gun Violence Restraining Orders), a ten-day waiting period for gun purchases, an “assault weapons” ban, a one-gun-per-month limit on handgun purchases, a minimum firearm purchase age of 21, a ban on campus carry, a “good cause” restriction for concealed carry permit issuance, and controls on the purchase of ammunition. The ammunition controls limit law-abiding Californians to buying ammunition from state-approved vendors–all of whom are in-state sellers–and adds a fee to any ammunition bought online, also requiring that ammunition to be shipped to a state-approved vendor for pickup.
-------
Additionally, the state mandates gun free zones in businesses where alcohol is sold for on-site consumption. Therefore, the few concealed carry permit holders in the state must enter myriad restaurants without any means of self-defense. This provides a target-rich environment for attackers who want to be sure no one can shoot back when they strike. We last saw this on November 7, 2018, when an attacker opened fire with a handgun in the gun-free Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, California.

Despite all the stringent gun controls a bill filed by Assemblyman Marc Levine (CA-D-10) admits California firearm homicides were up between from 2014 to 2016. The bill says, “Although California has the toughest gun laws in the nation, more effort is necessary to curtail gun violence.

The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation found that from 2014 to 2016 gun homicides increased 18 percent.” In light of this gun control failure the language of the bill goes on to suggest more gun control.

 

[Polishprince]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

Moron, we already have 20,000 gun control laws at all levels of government...what we need is criminal control..but unfortunately, the democrat party keeps letting known, violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail.....stop them from doing this and we reduce our crime rate over night.....

And on the plus side....as more law abiding citizens over the last 26 years have gone out and bought guns...and now actually carry them...our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate has gone down 75%, and our violent crime rate has gone down 72%.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

The point is that the fact we have millions of armed law abiders out there, our violent crime rate is going down.

A lot of older people like myself would face certain death on the streets if the criminal element didn't think we were packing heat. My mum, example given, is 88 years old. Some young thug comes up to her what chance would she have if she wasn't armed?

Look at countries with strong gun control. They have much lower homicide rates. Their mums are much safer.

Strong gun control doesn't make anyone except Criminals safer. Criminals are going to turn over their weapons.

The simple fact is that if you outlaw the legal sale of guns, people will just be forced to visit unregulated gun dealers operating out of the trunks of their cars or the back rooms of bars. Those guys don't do background checks at all- they sell to kids, criminals, the insane, Illegal Aliens.

Really the question isn't Guns or No Guns. But legal, safe guns sold by responsible taxpayers, or unsafe guns.

 

[2aguy]

Again, when criminals use straw buyers, who can pass background checks, or they steal their guns....how do background checks magically stop criminals from getting guns? Please, explain....

Then explain how your argument...that more guns in the hands of more law abiding people causes more crime.....fits in with the truth that as more law abiding Americans own and carry guns...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our violent crime rate went down 72%....

Explain that part of your argument.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Nope...... you can't explain how background checks stopped crime when criminals use straw buyers....who can pass background checks and then give the guns to criminals, or the criminal simply steal the guns...you can't explain how background checks worked....

You can't explain how more Americans with more guns didn't increase any of the crime rates....another thing you can't explain.

What is there to explain? We got some gun control and gun crime dropped like a rock.

Nope.....you are a moron.....background checks do nothing, since criminals use straw buyers or steal their guns....

And you have to pretend not to realize that more Americans with more Guns did not raise the crime rates...the exact opposite of what you morons claim would happen...

Funny claim given that our gun crime dropped like a rock right after we got background checks. It will happen again after universal background checks.

You are a dumb troll.....

Gun Control Fail: California Firearm Homicides Up 18 Percent

California has universal background checks, gun registration requirements, red flag laws (i.e., Gun Violence Restraining Orders), a ten-day waiting period for gun purchases, an “assault weapons” ban, a one-gun-per-month limit on handgun purchases, a minimum firearm purchase age of 21, a ban on campus carry, a “good cause” restriction for concealed carry permit issuance, and controls on the purchase of ammunition. The ammunition controls limit law-abiding Californians to buying ammunition from state-approved vendors–all of whom are in-state sellers–and adds a fee to any ammunition bought online, also requiring that ammunition to be shipped to a state-approved vendor for pickup.
-------
Additionally, the state mandates gun free zones in businesses where alcohol is sold for on-site consumption. Therefore, the few concealed carry permit holders in the state must enter myriad restaurants without any means of self-defense. This provides a target-rich environment for attackers who want to be sure no one can shoot back when they strike. We last saw this on November 7, 2018, when an attacker opened fire with a handgun in the gun-free Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, California.

Despite all the stringent gun controls a bill filed by Assemblyman Marc Levine (CA-D-10) admits California firearm homicides were up between from 2014 to 2016. The bill says, “Although California has the toughest gun laws in the nation, more effort is necessary to curtail gun violence.

The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation found that from 2014 to 2016 gun homicides increased 18 percent.” In light of this gun control failure the language of the bill goes on to suggest more gun control.

 

[Brain357]

Gun laws don't stop crime....locking up actual criminals stops crime...

Gun Control Fail: California Firearm Homicides Up 18 Percent

California has universal background checks, gun registration requirements, red flag laws (i.e., Gun Violence Restraining Orders), a ten-day waiting period for gun purchases, an “assault weapons” ban, a one-gun-per-month limit on handgun purchases, a minimum firearm purchase age of 21, a ban on campus carry, a “good cause” restriction for concealed carry permit issuance, and controls on the purchase of ammunition. The ammunition controls limit law-abiding Californians to buying ammunition from state-approved vendors–all of whom are in-state sellers–and adds a fee to any ammunition bought online, also requiring that ammunition to be shipped to a state-approved vendor for pickup.
-------
Additionally, the state mandates gun free zones in businesses where alcohol is sold for on-site consumption. Therefore, the few concealed carry permit holders in the state must enter myriad restaurants without any means of self-defense. This provides a target-rich environment for attackers who want to be sure no one can shoot back when they strike. We last saw this on November 7, 2018, when an attacker opened fire with a handgun in the gun-free Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, California.

Despite all the stringent gun controls a bill filed by Assemblyman Marc Levine (CA-D-10) admits California firearm homicides were up between from 2014 to 2016. The bill says, “Although California has the toughest gun laws in the nation, more effort is necessary to curtail gun violence.

The Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation found that from 2014 to 2016 gun homicides increased 18 percent.” In light of this gun control failure the language of the bill goes on to suggest more gun control.

And what barriers are there to driving into California with illegal guns? None.

 

[Brain357]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

Moron, we already have 20,000 gun control laws at all levels of government...what we need is criminal control..but unfortunately, the democrat party keeps letting known, violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail.....stop them from doing this and we reduce our crime rate over night.....

And on the plus side....as more law abiding citizens over the last 26 years have gone out and bought guns...and now actually carry them...our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate has gone down 75%, and our violent crime rate has gone down 72%.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

The point is that the fact we have millions of armed law abiders out there, our violent crime rate is going down.

A lot of older people like myself would face certain death on the streets if the criminal element didn't think we were packing heat. My mum, example given, is 88 years old. Some young thug comes up to her what chance would she have if she wasn't armed?

Look at countries with strong gun control. They have much lower homicide rates. Their mums are much safer.

Strong gun control doesn't make anyone except Criminals safer. Criminals are going to turn over their weapons.

The simple fact is that if you outlaw the legal sale of guns, people will just be forced to visit unregulated gun dealers operating out of the trunks of their cars or the back rooms of bars. Those guys don't do background checks at all- they sell to kids, criminals, the insane, Illegal Aliens.

Really the question isn't Guns or No Guns. But legal, safe guns sold by responsible taxpayers, or unsafe guns.

So much lower homicide rates isn't safer? Lawful gun ownership is a big incentive for unlawful ownership. All it does is guarantee lots of armed criminals. Countries with strong gun control don't have this problem.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

Moron, we already have 20,000 gun control laws at all levels of government...what we need is criminal control..but unfortunately, the democrat party keeps letting known, violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail.....stop them from doing this and we reduce our crime rate over night.....

And on the plus side....as more law abiding citizens over the last 26 years have gone out and bought guns...and now actually carry them...our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate has gone down 75%, and our violent crime rate has gone down 72%.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

Again, when criminals use straw buyers, who can pass background checks, or they steal their guns....how do background checks magically stop criminals from getting guns? Please, explain....

Then explain how your argument...that more guns in the hands of more law abiding people causes more crime.....fits in with the truth that as more law abiding Americans own and carry guns...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our violent crime rate went down 72%....

Explain that part of your argument.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Was the drop due to the background checks, or because we jailed more criminals for a longer time?

 

[Polishprince]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

Moron, we already have 20,000 gun control laws at all levels of government...what we need is criminal control..but unfortunately, the democrat party keeps letting known, violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail.....stop them from doing this and we reduce our crime rate over night.....

And on the plus side....as more law abiding citizens over the last 26 years have gone out and bought guns...and now actually carry them...our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate has gone down 75%, and our violent crime rate has gone down 72%.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

Again, when criminals use straw buyers, who can pass background checks, or they steal their guns....how do background checks magically stop criminals from getting guns? Please, explain....

Then explain how your argument...that more guns in the hands of more law abiding people causes more crime.....fits in with the truth that as more law abiding Americans own and carry guns...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our violent crime rate went down 72%....

Explain that part of your argument.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Was the drop due to the background checks, or because we jailed more criminals for a longer time?

The "3 strikes" laws really helped reduce the amount of criminality in the communities.

A relatively small number of characters commit a large percentage of our violent crimes, and getting them off the street for life really helps

 

[Rigby5]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

No

Keep your wall because Guns are not the issue and you have laws already your side refuses to enforce.

That is totally ridiculous. I am against the wall, but gun control is what makes a country dangerous.

So you are suggesting that America establish a lot stricter law enforcement as well?

We have great law enforcement. What we need is stricter laws. Even angry kids have no problem getting guns in this country. The Swiss have lots of guns and a low homicide rates. What they have are much better laws.

There is totally easy access to guns by anyone in Switzerland.
Laws have nothing at all to do with low homicide rates except that when you have unfair laws that make people frustrated or angry, that will increase crime greatly.
Almost every house has a machinegun, and it is not hard for angry kids to gain access to them if they want to.
How is a minor gun law penalty going to deter someone bent on murder, the highest possible penalty?
Makes no sense at all to even begin to consider gun laws as possibly reducing crime.
It is the other way around, where harsh laws are what causes more crime.
If you took Swiss and forced them to obey the corrupt and draconian laws in the US, they would likely want to kill people too.

That’s a stupid statement. Any legal citizen gun owner knows how to keep there gun safe so children can’t get to them. It’s called a safe. I don’t care what my kids do they will never be able to get into them. Your talking about people who don’t own guns legally just put them anywhere. So your argument is bull-it and it’s just liberal whining. You better ban cars, drugs and disease while your at it. Amazing the crap the liberals spew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That makes no sense at all, because if you are not home, who is going to protect the children?
Children need firearm access in emergencies as well, and that is why the tradition always used to be a shotgun over the mantel piece.
Switzerland does not use gun safes.

{...
Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.
...

“We will never change our attitude about the responsible use of weapons by law-abiding citizens,” says Hermann Suter, vice president of Pro-Tell, the country’s gun lobby, named after legendary apple shooter William Tell, who used a crossbow to target enemies long before firearms were invented.
...
Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report.

Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland’s gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment’s assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com
...}

Obviously banning something can not prevent it, and defense is an inherent individual right.

From you link, the Swiss have much stronger gun laws than the US.

But the “gun in every closet” tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland’s recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.

The authorities made one concession, though: since 2008, all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes. The debate culminated in a nationwide referendum last year, when 56% of voters rejected the proposal initiated by anti-gun organizations to ban army rifles from homes altogether.

No, Swiss regulations are much less stringent. They don't have to supply finger prints, wait a week for a full background check, or deal with the federal government. Gun regulations in Switzerland are local, and typically done on a very informal basis.
The only thing they are strict on is concealed weapons permits.
And if you can carry a rifle on your back on the way to the range, who would bother with concealed carry.
What the article did not get into is how easy it it to get a collector's license, so then there is no limit.
Kids can also join a shooting club and own firearms under the age of 18.

 

[Rigby5]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

Moron, we already have 20,000 gun control laws at all levels of government...what we need is criminal control..but unfortunately, the democrat party keeps letting known, violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail.....stop them from doing this and we reduce our crime rate over night.....

And on the plus side....as more law abiding citizens over the last 26 years have gone out and bought guns...and now actually carry them...our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate has gone down 75%, and our violent crime rate has gone down 72%.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

No, the NICs background check was made available in 1993, but is not mandatory except with federally licensed dealers.
Nor has any criminal ever had any problem obtaining something illegal if they pay enough, like with drugs or guns.
Prohibition proves that attempts at restricting something does not at all work.
How are you going to prevent straw purchases for example?
You can't prosecute them because you can't prove intent.

 

[Rigby5]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

No

Keep your wall because Guns are not the issue and you have laws already your side refuses to enforce.

That is totally ridiculous. I am against the wall, but gun control is what makes a country dangerous.

There is totally easy access to guns by anyone in Switzerland.
Laws have nothing at all to do with low homicide rates except that when you have unfair laws that make people frustrated or angry, that will increase crime greatly.
Almost every house has a machinegun, and it is not hard for angry kids to gain access to them if they want to.
How is a minor gun law penalty going to deter someone bent on murder, the highest possible penalty?
Makes no sense at all to even begin to consider gun laws as possibly reducing crime.
It is the other way around, where harsh laws are what causes more crime.
If you took Swiss and forced them to obey the corrupt and draconian laws in the US, they would likely want to kill people too.

That’s a stupid statement. Any legal citizen gun owner knows how to keep there gun safe so children can’t get to them. It’s called a safe. I don’t care what my kids do they will never be able to get into them. Your talking about people who don’t own guns legally just put them anywhere. So your argument is bull-it and it’s just liberal whining. You better ban cars, drugs and disease while your at it. Amazing the crap the liberals spew.


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That makes no sense at all, because if you are not home, who is going to protect the children?
Children need firearm access in emergencies as well, and that is why the tradition always used to be a shotgun over the mantel piece.
Switzerland does not use gun safes.

{...
Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.
...

“We will never change our attitude about the responsible use of weapons by law-abiding citizens,” says Hermann Suter, vice president of Pro-Tell, the country’s gun lobby, named after legendary apple shooter William Tell, who used a crossbow to target enemies long before firearms were invented.
...
Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report.

Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland’s gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment’s assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com
...}

Obviously banning something can not prevent it, and defense is an inherent individual right.

From you link, the Swiss have much stronger gun laws than the US.

But the “gun in every closet” tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland’s recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.

The authorities made one concession, though: since 2008, all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes. The debate culminated in a nationwide referendum last year, when 56% of voters rejected the proposal initiated by anti-gun organizations to ban army rifles from homes altogether.

My shotgun is more dangerous than any Ar-15 with just buck shot, and most people do not even know that.

Again it is not the firearm that is the issue and also Switzerland population is a fraction of our Nation Population but of course you will not accept that and compare apples to oranges.

So again no on your gun control laws because you have enough laws already and Florida officials along with the Federal Government failed twice when they could have prevented a mass shooting...

Yes they do have a small population. Germany has a pretty big population though. They have strong gun control and a much lower homicide rate than ours.

Gun access has absolutely nothing at all to do with it.
Anyone anywhere in Europe can easily get any sort of firearm they want.
Same in the US.
Laws can never prevent access if one is intent on committing a far greater crime once they have the weapon.

 

[Rigby5]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

No

Keep your wall because Guns are not the issue and you have laws already your side refuses to enforce.

That is totally ridiculous. I am against the wall, but gun control is what makes a country dangerous.

There is totally easy access to guns by anyone in Switzerland.
Laws have nothing at all to do with low homicide rates except that when you have unfair laws that make people frustrated or angry, that will increase crime greatly.
Almost every house has a machinegun, and it is not hard for angry kids to gain access to them if they want to.
How is a minor gun law penalty going to deter someone bent on murder, the highest possible penalty?
Makes no sense at all to even begin to consider gun laws as possibly reducing crime.
It is the other way around, where harsh laws are what causes more crime.
If you took Swiss and forced them to obey the corrupt and draconian laws in the US, they would likely want to kill people too.

That’s a stupid statement. Any legal citizen gun owner knows how to keep there gun safe so children can’t get to them. It’s called a safe. I don’t care what my kids do they will never be able to get into them. Your talking about people who don’t own guns legally just put them anywhere. So your argument is bull-it and it’s just liberal whining. You better ban cars, drugs and disease while your at it. Amazing the crap the liberals spew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That makes no sense at all, because if you are not home, who is going to protect the children?
Children need firearm access in emergencies as well, and that is why the tradition always used to be a shotgun over the mantel piece.
Switzerland does not use gun safes.

{...
Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.
...

“We will never change our attitude about the responsible use of weapons by law-abiding citizens,” says Hermann Suter, vice president of Pro-Tell, the country’s gun lobby, named after legendary apple shooter William Tell, who used a crossbow to target enemies long before firearms were invented.
...
Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report.

Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland’s gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment’s assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com
...}

Obviously banning something can not prevent it, and defense is an inherent individual right.

From you link, the Swiss have much stronger gun laws than the US.

But the “gun in every closet” tradition was challenged in 2001, after a disgruntled citizen opened fire with his army rifle inside a regional parliament, killing 14 and injuring 14 others — the only mass shooting in Switzerland’s recent history. The subsequent opposition to widespread gun ownership spearheaded a push for stricter arms legislation. The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough. The law allows citizens or legal residents over the age of 18, who have obtained a permit from the government and who have no criminal record or history of mental illness, to buy up to three weapons from an authorized dealer, with the exception of automatic firearms and selective fire weapons, which are banned. Semiautomatics, which have caused havoc in the U.S., can be legally purchased.

The authorities made one concession, though: since 2008, all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes. The debate culminated in a nationwide referendum last year, when 56% of voters rejected the proposal initiated by anti-gun organizations to ban army rifles from homes altogether.

Moron...they have fully automatic military rifles in their homes....guns aren't the issue...it is the culture of the criminals......the Swiss have guns and ammo...they just don't use them to commit murder, you doofus..... Which one of those rules would keep a Swiss citizen from walking into a school, a mall, a theater or a church and murder people....? Since only the military ammo is kept in armories...and if they have access to those armories they can shoot people if they want to.....they just don't do it...which means that guns aren't the issue, the values, culture and population are the issue....

No they don't. Read the link. And note this part also:
all military — but not private — ammunition must be stored in central arsenals rather than in soldiers’ homes.

Your only defense is always lies.

That is very poor reading perception.
There is no limit on civilians ammunition to these military full automatic weapons all these Swiss have.
All this is saying is that the 50 round cans of free ammunition have to be picked up at the ranges where they practice.
This has absolutely no effect on safety.
This is to prevent people from selling the ammunition.

{...
The Swiss army has long been a militia trained and structured to rapidly respond against foreign aggression. Swiss males grow up expecting to undergo basic military training, usually at age 20 in the recruit school, the basic-training camp, after which Swiss men remain part of the "militia" in reserve capacity until age 30 (age 34 for officers).

Prior to 2007, members of the Swiss Militia were supplied with 50 rounds of ammunition for their military weapon in a sealed ammo box that was regularly audited by the government. This was so that, in the case of an emergency, the militia could respond quickly.
In December 2007, the Swiss Federal Council decided that the distribution of ammunition to soldiers would stop and that previously issued ammo would be returned. By March 2011, more than 99% of the ammo has been received. Only 2,000 specialist militia members (who protect airports and other sites of particular sensitivity) are permitted to keep their military-issued ammunition at home. The rest of the militia get their ammunition from their military armory in the event of an emergency.[2][20][21]

When their period of service has ended, militia men have the choice of keeping their personal weapon and other selected items of their equipment. However, keeping the weapon after end of service requires a weapon acquisition permit (art. 11-15 VPAA/OEPM).[9]

The government sponsors training with rifles and shooting in competitions for interested adolescents, both male and female. The sale of military-issued ammunition – including Gw Pat.90 rounds for army-issued assault rifles – is subsidized by the Swiss government and made available at the many Federal Council licensed shooting ranges.
...}

 

[Rigby5]

Trump is claiming to want to protect us with this wall. Well nothing would protect us more than some strong gun control. Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Trade the wall for strong gun control!

Moron, we already have 20,000 gun control laws at all levels of government...what we need is criminal control..but unfortunately, the democrat party keeps letting known, violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail.....stop them from doing this and we reduce our crime rate over night.....

And on the plus side....as more law abiding citizens over the last 26 years have gone out and bought guns...and now actually carry them...our gun murder rate has gone down 49%, our gun crime rate has gone down 75%, and our violent crime rate has gone down 72%.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes right after we got background checks gun crime dropped drastically. Thank you for pointing that out.

Again, when criminals use straw buyers, who can pass background checks, or they steal their guns....how do background checks magically stop criminals from getting guns? Please, explain....

Then explain how your argument...that more guns in the hands of more law abiding people causes more crime.....fits in with the truth that as more law abiding Americans own and carry guns...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our gun murder rate went down 49%, our violent crime rate went down 72%....

Explain that part of your argument.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Right after we got background check gun crime dropped like a rock. That's simply a fact.

Was the drop due to the background checks, or because we jailed more criminals for a longer time?

Neither is true.
Crime has been on a steady decrease for the last century, and there was no sudden drop in the early 90s.
A more accurate statement would there was a slight rise in the early 90s that went back down by the late 90s.

 

[elongobardi]

Criminals don't obey laws, that's the point. Gun control only disarms the Law Abiders, and makes them sitting ducks for the criminal element.

Our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control. Seems to work.

There isn't any causation here, Brain.

Some countries with Draconian style gun control do have lower rates. But other countries with strong gun control, like Mexico, Venezuela, the Dem. Rep. of the Congo have much higher murder rates.

America is a lot more like those nations with our high hispanic and black populations than we are like the Empire of Japan

All the stable countries that are able to enforce strong gun control have lower homicide rates. Mexico can't have strong gun control, their police are corrupt. Venezuela is in chaos.

Stricter gun control will cause a large rise in crime. Bad guys are drooling listening to your ignorance. They will have free reign to do whatever they want with no one to stop them. You can’t put the burden on the police. They would be overwhelmed.
Also your bullshit about on countries with stricter gun laws and lower murder rates aren’t a substantial difference plus they are not like America. There is no other country like America. Why do you think we have so many immigrants from other countries. They come to America because we let anyone in. Try to go live in one of the countries you discussed. Good luck. They won’t let you stay and they will kick you out and some will put you in prison. Most countries with lower crime rates and homicides is because you steal they cut your hand off. You rape they cut your dick off, and you kill someone you die period no discussion. So that’s why stricter gun control is bullshit and a joke. Let law abiding citizens carry guns in every state and see how things change. Bad people will stop doing bad things because they know they might get shot. Programmed liberal idiots.


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