Utah introducing legislation to make the state "Constitutional Carry"

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I'm talking about normal everyday people who sometimes lose their cool over what usually are minor incidents. Give people like this a gun, and they may well use it in a moment of heated anger, where given five minutes to cool off, they would just let the entire situation blow over. We see this with road rage incidents all the time. I can just imagine what would happen on our roads if everyone was packing. It would turn into a bloodfest.

Do the incidents you describe happen in Alaska, Arizona, Vermont, Wyoming, and Montana?

 

[martybegan]

The state of Utah in their assembly has introduced legislation that would make Utah the 6th state to be a Constitutional Carry state - which means that one can carry a concealed firearm without needing a concealed carry permit. Imagine that, upholding that Constitution!! Currently, there are 5 states which are already Consitutional Carry states: Arizona, Alaska, Wyoming, Montana and Vermont. There are several other states that have this legislation pending: CO, GA, IA, KY, LA, OH, PA SC, SD, TN and VA. Things are getting interesting. Read the article about Utah, they are not gonna take any crap from the Obama dictatorship to say the least:

Utah bill would do away with need for concealed-gun permit | The Salt Lake Tribune


Chances are very high this bill will pass in Utah.

Just curious, but would you feel safer knowing every single driver had a gun in their car? Would you feel safer knowing everyone at the grocery store had a gun on them? Without a doubt, there would be less mass killings. I won't argue that. But I would also guarantee that there would tens of thousands of killings from people who lost their cool. Cut me off while I'm driving, and I'll blow your brains out. You know that there are way too many people out there who cannot control their temper and should have no business carrying a gun. Now we want to let all these crazies have the easiest access to carrying guns anywhere they want? Sorry, but that does not sound like a great idea to me.

Since several other states have this, shouldnt we be seeing those "tens of thousands" of shootings you worry about? Why is it not already happening in places where this is the law, or for that matter, shouldnt you have seen a spike in this already in places where concealed carry is "shall issue" and anyone meeting some very basic requirements can get a permit?

 

[eflatminor]

Just curious, but would you feel safer knowing every single driver had a gun in their car? Would you feel safer knowing everyone at the grocery store had a gun on them? Without a doubt, there would be less mass killings. I won't argue that. But I would also guarantee that there would tens of thousands of killings from people who lost their cool. Cut me off while I'm driving, and I'll blow your brains out. You know that there are way too many people out there who cannot control their temper and should have no business carrying a gun. Now we want to let all these crazies have the easiest access to carrying guns anywhere they want? Sorry, but that does not sound like a great idea to me.

I case you haven't noticed, the crazies already have all of the access to firearms that they need. However, for me I like PA.'s stance on gun control and have no intentions of moving. If Pa. adopts a Vermont type law, it will make our gun laws all the better.

You missed my point completely. I'm not talking about the crazies; I'm talking about normal everyday people who sometimes lose their cool over what usually are minor incidents. Give people like this a gun, and they may well use it in a moment of heated anger, where given five minutes to cool off, they would just let the entire situation blow over. We see this with road rage incidents all the time. I can just imagine what would happen on our roads if everyone was packing. It would turn into a bloodfest.

Reality does not support your fears. Where we see more conceal carry permits issued, crime is down.

Further, statistics show conceal carry holders do not use their firearms irresponsibly. Florida, a state that saw an exponential increase in permits, is a perfect example. According to the Florida Department of Justice, crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% since their right-to-carry law started in 1988.

Of course, crime in Florida also dropped after conceal carry permits began. Florida's homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below after CCW enactment and remains below the national average.

Texas is another example. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, Texas murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.

So, while I understand your fear of what MIGHT happen, actual evidence proves your fear is irrational. Not only aren't "normal everyday people" more likely to use their legal firearm in "heated anger", they are LESS likely to do so. And, we also have the happy result of less crime from thugs that nobody thinks are "normal".

What I can add from first hand experience is if you want to see the most patient and accommodating driver on the road, look for the guy with a CCW. They tend to go out of their way to be nice to their fellow citizens when carrying. Just my experience, so you can take it for what it's worth.

 

[Black_Label]

The state of Utah in their assembly has introduced legislation that would make Utah the 6th state to be a Constitutional Carry state - which means that one can carry a concealed firearm without needing a concealed carry permit. Imagine that, upholding that Constitution!! Currently, there are 5 states which are already Consitutional Carry states: Arizona, Alaska, Wyoming, Montana and Vermont. There are several other states that have this legislation pending: CO, GA, IA, KY, LA, OH, PA SC, SD, TN and VA. Things are getting interesting. Read the article about Utah, they are not gonna take any crap from the Obama dictatorship to say the least:

Utah bill would do away with need for concealed-gun permit | The Salt Lake Tribune


Chances are very high this bill will pass in Utah.

Just curious, but would you feel safer knowing every single driver had a gun in their car? Would you feel safer knowing everyone at the grocery store had a gun on them? Without a doubt, there would be less mass killings. I won't argue that. But I would also guarantee that there would tens of thousands of killings from people who lost their cool. Cut me off while I'm driving, and I'll blow your brains out. You know that there are way too many people out there who cannot control their temper and should have no business carrying a gun. Now we want to let all these crazies have the easiest access to carrying guns anywhere they want? Sorry, but that does not sound like a great idea to me.

Since several other states have this, shouldnt we be seeing those "tens of thousands" of shootings you worry about? Why is it not already happening in places where this is the law, or for that matter, shouldnt you have seen a spike in this already in places where concealed carry is "shall issue" and anyone meeting some very basic requirements can get a permit?

We do. The states with the highest murder rates are all bright red with next to no gun laws.

 

[eflatminor]

It probably will. We have our share of nut cases here in this "Pretty Great State". Many of them make their way to the religiouslature. So now we'll have a bunch of poorly equipped, Dirty Harry wannabe's out in public. What could possibly go wrong?

What has gone wrong in Arizona, Alaska, Wyoming, Montana and Vermont? Do they have a violent crime rate higher or lower than the rest of the country? Did their crime rate increase or decrease following the enactment of CC laws? Did these states see murder rates increase or decrease? Hmm...

It doesn't look like Arizona has much to brag about.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/27/20110127arizona-gun-death-rate-nations-worst.html

Dude, did you even read your own link? Despite all the firearms in Arizona and all the conceal and open carry, "Overall, violent-crime rates in Arizona are not far from rates for the U.S. as a whole..."

Fail!

 

[eflatminor]

Just curious, but would you feel safer knowing every single driver had a gun in their car? Would you feel safer knowing everyone at the grocery store had a gun on them? Without a doubt, there would be less mass killings. I won't argue that. But I would also guarantee that there would tens of thousands of killings from people who lost their cool. Cut me off while I'm driving, and I'll blow your brains out. You know that there are way too many people out there who cannot control their temper and should have no business carrying a gun. Now we want to let all these crazies have the easiest access to carrying guns anywhere they want? Sorry, but that does not sound like a great idea to me.

Since several other states have this, shouldnt we be seeing those "tens of thousands" of shootings you worry about? Why is it not already happening in places where this is the law, or for that matter, shouldnt you have seen a spike in this already in places where concealed carry is "shall issue" and anyone meeting some very basic requirements can get a permit?

We do. The states with the highest murder rates are all bright red with next to no gun laws.

Lie much? Your little chart represent "deaths due to injury by firearm", which includes suicides and unintentional injuries. NOT "states with the highest murder rates".

I understand it's easy to lie when you can't argue with logic or reason. It's just so sad you would be so obvious about it.

 

[JoeNormal]

What has gone wrong in Arizona, Alaska, Wyoming, Montana and Vermont? Do they have a violent crime rate higher or lower than the rest of the country? Did their crime rate increase or decrease following the enactment of CC laws? Did these states see murder rates increase or decrease? Hmm...

It doesn't look like Arizona has much to brag about.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/27/20110127arizona-gun-death-rate-nations-worst.html

Dude, did you even read your own link? Despite all the firearms in Arizona and all the conceal and open carry, "Overall, violent-crime rates in Arizona are not far from rates for the U.S. as a whole..."

Fail!

Overall crime rates are not far from the rates for the U.S. as a whole but gun deaths are among the worst. What does that tell you? More guns = more gun deaths.

 

[Black_Label]

Since several other states have this, shouldnt we be seeing those "tens of thousands" of shootings you worry about? Why is it not already happening in places where this is the law, or for that matter, shouldnt you have seen a spike in this already in places where concealed carry is "shall issue" and anyone meeting some very basic requirements can get a permit?

We do. The states with the highest murder rates are all bright red with next to no gun laws.

Lie much? Your little chart represent "deaths due to injury by firearm", which includes suicides and unintentional injuries. NOT "states with the highest murder rates".

I understand it's easy to lie when you can't argue with logic or reason. It's just so sad you would be so obvious about it.

suicides are only a small portion, most are homicides which are most common in the rootin' tootin' GOP states. Epic fail deflection attempt, but that's all you right wingers can do is lie.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The state of Utah in their assembly has introduced legislation that would make Utah the 6th state to be a Constitutional Carry state - which means that one can carry a concealed firearm without needing a concealed carry permit. Imagine that, upholding that Constitution!! Currently, there are 5 states which are already Consitutional Carry states: Arizona, Alaska, Wyoming, Montana and Vermont. There are several other states that have this legislation pending: CO, GA, IA, KY, LA, OH, PA SC, SD, TN and VA. Things are getting interesting. Read the article about Utah, they are not gonna take any crap from the Obama dictatorship to say the least:

Utah bill would do away with need for concealed-gun permit | The Salt Lake Tribune


Chances are very high this bill will pass in Utah.

You're a fucking idiot.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Since several other states have this, shouldnt we be seeing those "tens of thousands" of shootings you worry about? Why is it not already happening in places where this is the law, or for that matter, shouldnt you have seen a spike in this already in places where concealed carry is "shall issue" and anyone meeting some very basic requirements can get a permit?

We do. The states with the highest murder rates are all bright red with next to no gun laws.

Lie much? Your little chart represent "deaths due to injury by firearm", which includes suicides and unintentional injuries. NOT "states with the highest murder rates".

I understand it's easy to lie when you can't argue with logic or reason. It's just so sad you would be so obvious about it.

So its OK when someone dies from a gun so long as its not murder?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

We do. The states with the highest murder rates are all bright red with next to no gun laws.

Lie much? Your little chart represent "deaths due to injury by firearm", which includes suicides and unintentional injuries. NOT "states with the highest murder rates".

I understand it's easy to lie when you can't argue with logic or reason. It's just so sad you would be so obvious about it.

So its OK when someone dies from a gun so long as its not murder?

Kind of like all the unborn babies huh?

 

[eflatminor]

It doesn't look like Arizona has much to brag about.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/27/20110127arizona-gun-death-rate-nations-worst.html

Dude, did you even read your own link? Despite all the firearms in Arizona and all the conceal and open carry, "Overall, violent-crime rates in Arizona are not far from rates for the U.S. as a whole..."

Fail!

Overall crime rates are not far from the rates for the U.S. as a whole but gun deaths are among the worst. What does that tell you? More guns = more gun deaths.

No, it means people in Arizona tend to use a firearm to kill vs other means compared to other states. So what? Is a person that dies by other means any less dead?

Bottom line, more guns does NOT equal more deaths, which is really what any reasonable person would care about.

 

[eflatminor]

We do. The states with the highest murder rates are all bright red with next to no gun laws.

Lie much? Your little chart represent "deaths due to injury by firearm", which includes suicides and unintentional injuries. NOT "states with the highest murder rates".

I understand it's easy to lie when you can't argue with logic or reason. It's just so sad you would be so obvious about it.

suicides are only a small portion, most are homicides which are most common in the rootin' tootin' GOP states. Epic fail deflection attempt, but that's all you right wingers can do is lie.

You still lied. Blatantly. Murder rates do not equal "deaths due to injury by firearm".

Further, you lied again when you state suicides are only a small portion. According to the Center for Disease Control, we see about 38,000 suicides each year (19,000 with a firearm), but only 11,000 murders with a firearm.

Wow, you really are a lying sack of shit, aren't you?

 

[eflatminor]

We do. The states with the highest murder rates are all bright red with next to no gun laws.

Lie much? Your little chart represent "deaths due to injury by firearm", which includes suicides and unintentional injuries. NOT "states with the highest murder rates".

I understand it's easy to lie when you can't argue with logic or reason. It's just so sad you would be so obvious about it.

So its OK when someone dies from a gun so long as its not murder?

Yes sweetheart, we really only care about people hurting OTHER people. Suicide, which Japan proves does not require a firearm, is not the problem we're discussing. Try to keep up.

 

[Politico]

Since several other states have this, shouldnt we be seeing those "tens of thousands" of shootings you worry about? Why is it not already happening in places where this is the law, or for that matter, shouldnt you have seen a spike in this already in places where concealed carry is "shall issue" and anyone meeting some very basic requirements can get a permit?

We do. The states with the highest murder rates are all bright red with next to no gun laws.

Lie much? Your little chart represent "deaths due to injury by firearm", which includes suicides and unintentional injuries. NOT "states with the highest murder rates".

I understand it's easy to lie when you can't argue with logic or reason. It's just so sad you would be so obvious about it.

Seriously you're arguing this? The Leftytoons don't care about anything that doesn't forward their agrenda.

So its OK when someone dies from a gun so long as its not murder?

If you commit suicide I don't give a fuck how you go out.

 

[JoeNormal]

Dude, did you even read your own link? Despite all the firearms in Arizona and all the conceal and open carry, "Overall, violent-crime rates in Arizona are not far from rates for the U.S. as a whole..."

Fail!

Overall crime rates are not far from the rates for the U.S. as a whole but gun deaths are among the worst. What does that tell you? More guns = more gun deaths.

No, it means people in Arizona tend to use a firearm to kill vs other means compared to other states. So what? Is a person that dies by other means any less dead?

Bottom line, more guns does NOT equal more deaths, which is really what any reasonable person would care about.

It's pertinent to the discussion of the proposed Utah Constitutional carry legislation. If any bohunk in the state can just tuck a gun into his jacket, you'll probably have an increase in accidents from the Barney Fife types who forget to put their bullet in their shirt pocket.

 

[Politico]

If some bohunk whatever that is really wants to tuck a gun he is going to do it anyway.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You missed my point completely. I'm not talking about the crazies; I'm talking about normal everyday people who sometimes lose their cool over what usually are minor incidents. Give people like this a gun, and they may well use it in a moment of heated anger...

You people predict this sort of thing every time some state talks about liberalizing its CCW laws, and yet no one can point to it actually happening.

 

[eflatminor]

Overall crime rates are not far from the rates for the U.S. as a whole but gun deaths are among the worst. What does that tell you? More guns = more gun deaths.

No, it means people in Arizona tend to use a firearm to kill vs other means compared to other states. So what? Is a person that dies by other means any less dead?

Bottom line, more guns does NOT equal more deaths, which is really what any reasonable person would care about.

It's pertinent to the discussion of the proposed Utah Constitutional carry legislation. If any bohunk in the state can just tuck a gun into his jacket, you'll probably have an increase in accidents from the Barney Fife types who forget to put their bullet in their shirt pocket.

Moving the goalposts I see. Okay. There is no evidence to suggest Utah will see an "increase in accidents" either. That did not happen in the other states with constitutional carry laws. You're fear mongering.

 

[Tech_Esq]

The state of Utah in their assembly has introduced legislation that would make Utah the 6th state to be a Constitutional Carry state - which means that one can carry a concealed firearm without needing a concealed carry permit. Imagine that, upholding that Constitution!! Currently, there are 5 states which are already Consitutional Carry states: Arizona, Alaska, Wyoming, Montana and Vermont. There are several other states that have this legislation pending: CO, GA, IA, KY, LA, OH, PA SC, SD, TN and VA. Things are getting interesting. Read the article about Utah, they are not gonna take any crap from the Obama dictatorship to say the least:

Utah bill would do away with need for concealed-gun permit | The Salt Lake Tribune


Chances are very high this bill will pass in Utah.

Just curious, but would you feel safer knowing every single driver had a gun in their car? Would you feel safer knowing everyone at the grocery store had a gun on them? Without a doubt, there would be less mass killings. I won't argue that. But I would also guarantee that there would tens of thousands of killings from people who lost their cool. Cut me off while I'm driving, and I'll blow your brains out. You know that there are way too many people out there who cannot control their temper and should have no business carrying a gun. Now we want to let all these crazies have the easiest access to carrying guns anywhere they want? Sorry, but that does not sound like a great idea to me.

You flew right by your own argument. You mention that most people handle deadly weapons every day (cars) and don't kill each other with them (generally) even though they loose their cool a lot while they are using those deadly weapons called cars, somehow they refrain from killing each other with them (again generally and usually on accident not on purpose).

Why do you suppose people will be less responsible with one deadly weapon than another?