US aircraft carriers in worst shape in decades

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Most of our conflicts are 3rd world countries .......pirates...........yes ....pirates......and moving equipment and men to War Zones...........not to mention humanitarian relief around the globe............2 LHD's were assigned to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands during the hurricanes that destroyed the areas.........while a Carrier Battlegroup was on station for relief in the Florida keys......................

One thing to note........it takes a month to get on station across the globe.........one month to get back..........meaning the cycle to remain on station only lasts 4 months requiring 3 battlegroups a year to be on station at any given time unless you extend deployments...........usually this cycle is both east and west coast so that is 6 battlegroups a year for normal operation.............

This has been supplemented by the Gator Navy...............with ships like the 8 LHD's........which carry a Marine Air group. with Harriers, Apaches, and other helicopters to the air wing.......................There are 4 on Each coast...............also LHA's ...........which have air wings assigned..........I believe we still have 8 of them.................

Those are big oceans..............if we maintain a constant presence over seas along with more War.............we got to keep the numbers the way they are............as most conflicts are low grade..............the equation for new warfare would really only come into play in a war with China or Russia...........

Old ships must eventually be moth balled and replaced to maintain current commitments..........

LHA's? 8 of them? Incorrect!

I don't know where you got the number 8, There is just 1! USS America (LHA-6). Notice the number 6, that is after they decommed all 5 Tarawa class LHAs.

My mistake......thought they'd built more.......have to check the web.............but there are 8 LHD's.........served on LHD-1 and actually helped build a little on LHD-4.

LHDs are not carriers as the fixed wing aircraft are a secondary mission.

They still pack a punch..........and the Gator Navy does these rolls as well............I served on LHD-1.........last deployment was Somalia........at the time we had AV8's..............

While they are not an aircraft carrier........the big dogs.........they still can be used for presence without a carrier in the area..............My first ship was the Reeves..........stationed out of Yokosuka...........which is primarily a rapid response group for the region............I'm sure that is still the same as way back when...............We did tanker escort missions back in the day............didn't participate in the 1st Gulf War.......as we were hit by a 500 pounder off Diego by a Fa/18 off the Midway

Rolls? What kind of rolls? Onion rolls, Kaiser rolls? Crescent rolls?

How many AV-8Bs did you have? Normally, the complement was about 6. Which means in a shooting war, they would last about that many minutes.

We almost invaded Haiti with one LHA. Guess how many AV-8Bs we had?

None.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You seem to miss the point; Congress has the Power to Tax, to solve the problems of our Republic; the right wing, finds nothing but problems.

What you miss is that the power to tax and spend is limited by the 18 specific listed in Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution. Anything not specifically listed there is not a legitimate expenditure for the Federal Government. That would include Wekdare, Medicare, and about 85% of the Progressive Agenda.

Wekdare? WTF is that?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Ever ridden a D/E boat on the surface while recharging batteries?

Of course you haven't!

I have. Noisy as hell. But turn off those diesels and submerge and you are the quietest boat in the water.

You have? When and where? I am throwing the bullshit flag on that comment!

You can submerge and crawl along at speeds that most surface ships will easily outrun you, and then you will eventually have to recharge again, making you vulnerable near the surface. You know that aircraft can easily see you even when snorkeling, right?

In 1980 as part of ASW training missions before the USS Blueback was sent across the Pacific. My boat was in Newport News shipyards for refit and they were desperate for an SK (shortage of them in submarines in the early 1980s). The temporary duty gave me a leg up on my quals. And yes, they have to surface and turn on the diesels to recharge the batteries. But they can run 24 to 30 hours submerged (might be longer, its been a long time since I had to know that)

Diesel subs haven't had to actually SURFACE to charge batteries in 60+ years.

Yeah, they can run at periscope depth and charge the batteries. But they are easy to find when they are doing that. Mostly due to the noise of the diesels.

So you agree that the reasoning for foregoing nukes in lieu of diesel-electric boats is complete and total bullshit?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I think we can downsize them somewhat,... to me Navy isn't pursuing drone strike quickly enough. Very disappointed they turned good prototype into just a tanker. Could save some money by buying some D/E subs too instead of all nuke.

Ever ridden a D/E boat on the surface while recharging batteries?

Of course you haven't!

I have. Noisy as hell. But turn off those diesels and submerge and you are the quietest boat in the water.

You have? When and where? I am throwing the bullshit flag on that comment!

You can submerge and crawl along at speeds that most surface ships will easily outrun you, and then you will eventually have to recharge again, making you vulnerable near the surface. You know that aircraft can easily see you even when snorkeling, right?

In 1980 as part of ASW training missions before the USS Blueback was sent across the Pacific. My boat was in Newport News shipyards for refit and they were desperate for an SK (shortage of them in submarines in the early 1980s). The temporary duty gave me a leg up on my quals. And yes, they have to surface and turn on the diesels to recharge the batteries. But they can run 24 to 30 hours submerged (might be longer, its been a long time since I had to know that)

Diesel subs haven't had to actually SURFACE to charge batteries in 60+ years.

They might as well be surfaces because they are readily visible to everything from radar to IR.

 

[eagle1462010]

Most of our conflicts are 3rd world countries .......pirates...........yes ....pirates......and moving equipment and men to War Zones...........not to mention humanitarian relief around the globe............2 LHD's were assigned to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands during the hurricanes that destroyed the areas.........while a Carrier Battlegroup was on station for relief in the Florida keys......................

One thing to note........it takes a month to get on station across the globe.........one month to get back..........meaning the cycle to remain on station only lasts 4 months requiring 3 battlegroups a year to be on station at any given time unless you extend deployments...........usually this cycle is both east and west coast so that is 6 battlegroups a year for normal operation.............

This has been supplemented by the Gator Navy...............with ships like the 8 LHD's........which carry a Marine Air group. with Harriers, Apaches, and other helicopters to the air wing.......................There are 4 on Each coast...............also LHA's ...........which have air wings assigned..........I believe we still have 8 of them.................

Those are big oceans..............if we maintain a constant presence over seas along with more War.............we got to keep the numbers the way they are............as most conflicts are low grade..............the equation for new warfare would really only come into play in a war with China or Russia...........

Old ships must eventually be moth balled and replaced to maintain current commitments..........

LHA's? 8 of them? Incorrect!

I don't know where you got the number 8, There is just 1! USS America (LHA-6). Notice the number 6, that is after they decommed all 5 Tarawa class LHAs.

My mistake......thought they'd built more.......have to check the web.............but there are 8 LHD's.........served on LHD-1 and actually helped build a little on LHD-4.

LHDs are not carriers as the fixed wing aircraft are a secondary mission.

They still pack a punch..........and the Gator Navy does these rolls as well............I served on LHD-1.........last deployment was Somalia........at the time we had AV8's..............

While they are not an aircraft carrier........the big dogs.........they still can be used for presence without a carrier in the area..............My first ship was the Reeves..........stationed out of Yokosuka...........which is primarily a rapid response group for the region............I'm sure that is still the same as way back when...............We did tanker escort missions back in the day............didn't participate in the 1st Gulf War.......as we were hit by a 500 pounder off Diego by a Fa/18 off the Midway

Rolls? What kind of rolls? Onion rolls, Kaiser rolls? Crescent rolls?

How many AV-8Bs did you have? Normally, the complement was about 6. Which means in a shooting war, they would last about that many minutes.

We almost invaded Haiti with one LHA. Guess how many AV-8Bs we had?

None.

Yawn.................you are too full of yourself.............While you get your facts pretty good they still can be freaking used as a presence in those regions for rotation.................No they don't have the capabilities of the CVN's.........We deployed with the 24th MEU to Somalia...........the ROLL added with Jelly was to protect the food supplies and hunt out the War Lords.......the ROLL with butter was a training exercise with Kuwait during the same time frame........We did not have a Carrier back up for those Rolls with bacon...........

There are 3 Rolls for food in my post.......and 2 Rolls for the military assignment at the time.

Stop being so sanctimonious.

 

[eagle1462010]

You were correct on the LHA's...........the America is the only one and another being built. Others were decommissioned..........I was working on the USS Saipan on 911 it wasn't decommissioned yet. then...........the Guam was being decommissioned while I was in because we robbed auto transformers from it when we had the flight deck fiasco on the Wasp........which is another story..........

That fiasco almost forced the Navy to deploy another ship to Haiti at that time.

 

[WinterBorn]

I have. Noisy as hell. But turn off those diesels and submerge and you are the quietest boat in the water.

You have? When and where? I am throwing the bullshit flag on that comment!

You can submerge and crawl along at speeds that most surface ships will easily outrun you, and then you will eventually have to recharge again, making you vulnerable near the surface. You know that aircraft can easily see you even when snorkeling, right?

In 1980 as part of ASW training missions before the USS Blueback was sent across the Pacific. My boat was in Newport News shipyards for refit and they were desperate for an SK (shortage of them in submarines in the early 1980s). The temporary duty gave me a leg up on my quals. And yes, they have to surface and turn on the diesels to recharge the batteries. But they can run 24 to 30 hours submerged (might be longer, its been a long time since I had to know that)

Diesel subs haven't had to actually SURFACE to charge batteries in 60+ years.

Yeah, they can run at periscope depth and charge the batteries. But they are easy to find when they are doing that. Mostly due to the noise of the diesels.

So you agree that the reasoning for foregoing nukes in lieu of diesel-electric boats is complete and total bullshit?

There are only two advantages to the old diesels. They are cheap and they are quieter in short runs. Great terrorist boats.

 

[eagle1462010]

You have? When and where? I am throwing the bullshit flag on that comment!

You can submerge and crawl along at speeds that most surface ships will easily outrun you, and then you will eventually have to recharge again, making you vulnerable near the surface. You know that aircraft can easily see you even when snorkeling, right?

In 1980 as part of ASW training missions before the USS Blueback was sent across the Pacific. My boat was in Newport News shipyards for refit and they were desperate for an SK (shortage of them in submarines in the early 1980s). The temporary duty gave me a leg up on my quals. And yes, they have to surface and turn on the diesels to recharge the batteries. But they can run 24 to 30 hours submerged (might be longer, its been a long time since I had to know that)

Diesel subs haven't had to actually SURFACE to charge batteries in 60+ years.

Yeah, they can run at periscope depth and charge the batteries. But they are easy to find when they are doing that. Mostly due to the noise of the diesels.

So you agree that the reasoning for foregoing nukes in lieu of diesel-electric boats is complete and total bullshit?

There are only two advantages to the old diesels. They are cheap and they are quieter in short runs. Great terrorist boats.

A sub running on batteries is very quiet. Only problem is when the come up to charge and then they are owned.

Wasn't it a diesel boat that gave us fits recently??

Given that the nukes can stay under so very very hard to find. Doesn't mean a diesel boat can give us fits for short periods of time.

I don't know if they have fixed the bath tub effect in the Med. As that problem my brother had was a long time ago.

 

[Anathema]

You should learn about strategic resources found only in other countries.

If we don’t have it we likely don’t NEED it. If we do, then we go and conquer the area that has it so we control it.

 

[Ecocertifmrl]

I think this is Trump's fault now.

 

[Anathema]

That Only applies to the Republicans; they can't do it.

So you believe the Articke and Section of the Constitution thst lays out and limits the Powers of Congress only applies to Republicans? That’s interesting.

They COULD d it. They’re just simply Leftist hacks like their brethren in the Democratic Party and unwilling to live within their prescribed limits.

 

[Anathema]

Wekdare? WTF is that?

Nice to see you admit the only counter argument you can come up with is a complaint about a typo.

 

[WinterBorn]

You should learn about strategic resources found only in other countries.

If we don’t have it we likely don’t NEED it. If we do, then we go and conquer the area that has it so we control it.

So you want to demand that everyone else leave us alone. And when we need something, we go and take it by force because we need it?

And you don't see any problem with this?

 

[JoeB131]

Thank you Obama. Your efforts to weaken America seem to have worked out as you planned.

Yes, it's all Obama's fault, not the fault that we have ships that are 40 years old out there and still trying to use them.

(By comparison, most WWII Essex Class carriers were retired after 20 years.)

The report says the Navy faces a significant challenge, as it needs to return its aircraft carrier force into good shape while preserving their global presence at a level that would not compromise US military dominance.

Or maybe we can invest in infrastructure and education instead of a bloated military establishment.

Naaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!

Let's spend more money than the next 10 countries combined (8 of them allies) and not be able to get a single aircraft carrier out to sea.

 

[WinterBorn]

I have. Noisy as hell. But turn off those diesels and submerge and you are the quietest boat in the water.

You have? When and where? I am throwing the bullshit flag on that comment!

You can submerge and crawl along at speeds that most surface ships will easily outrun you, and then you will eventually have to recharge again, making you vulnerable near the surface. You know that aircraft can easily see you even when snorkeling, right?

In 1980 as part of ASW training missions before the USS Blueback was sent across the Pacific. My boat was in Newport News shipyards for refit and they were desperate for an SK (shortage of them in submarines in the early 1980s). The temporary duty gave me a leg up on my quals. And yes, they have to surface and turn on the diesels to recharge the batteries. But they can run 24 to 30 hours submerged (might be longer, its been a long time since I had to know that)

Diesel subs haven't had to actually SURFACE to charge batteries in 60+ years.

Yeah, they can run at periscope depth and charge the batteries. But they are easy to find when they are doing that. Mostly due to the noise of the diesels.

So you agree that the reasoning for foregoing nukes in lieu of diesel-electric boats is complete and total bullshit?

And BTW, I never said diesels should replace nukes. I only remarked that diesels were very quiet when submerged, after you talked about how noisy they were.

 

[eagle1462010]

Sweden has diesel electric subs that can stay submerged for weeks without charging. They have 5 and recently they gave the surface Navy fits trying to find them.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

LHA's? 8 of them? Incorrect!

I don't know where you got the number 8, There is just 1! USS America (LHA-6). Notice the number 6, that is after they decommed all 5 Tarawa class LHAs.

My mistake......thought they'd built more.......have to check the web.............but there are 8 LHD's.........served on LHD-1 and actually helped build a little on LHD-4.

LHDs are not carriers as the fixed wing aircraft are a secondary mission.

They still pack a punch..........and the Gator Navy does these rolls as well............I served on LHD-1.........last deployment was Somalia........at the time we had AV8's..............

While they are not an aircraft carrier........the big dogs.........they still can be used for presence without a carrier in the area..............My first ship was the Reeves..........stationed out of Yokosuka...........which is primarily a rapid response group for the region............I'm sure that is still the same as way back when...............We did tanker escort missions back in the day............didn't participate in the 1st Gulf War.......as we were hit by a 500 pounder off Diego by a Fa/18 off the Midway

Rolls? What kind of rolls? Onion rolls, Kaiser rolls? Crescent rolls?

How many AV-8Bs did you have? Normally, the complement was about 6. Which means in a shooting war, they would last about that many minutes.

We almost invaded Haiti with one LHA. Guess how many AV-8Bs we had?

None.

Yawn.................you are too full of yourself.............While you get your facts pretty good they still can be freaking used as a presence in those regions for rotation.................No they don't have the capabilities of the CVN's.........We deployed with the 24th MEU to Somalia...........the ROLL added with Jelly was to protect the food supplies and hunt out the War Lords.......the ROLL with butter was a training exercise with Kuwait during the same time frame........We did not have a Carrier back up for those Rolls with bacon...........

There are 3 Rolls for food in my post.......and 2 Rolls for the military assignment at the time.

Stop being so sanctimonious.

I get that way when dealing with amateurs who do not have the facts straight or underestimate the experience I have.

Nice reply on the rolls.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You have? When and where? I am throwing the bullshit flag on that comment!

You can submerge and crawl along at speeds that most surface ships will easily outrun you, and then you will eventually have to recharge again, making you vulnerable near the surface. You know that aircraft can easily see you even when snorkeling, right?

In 1980 as part of ASW training missions before the USS Blueback was sent across the Pacific. My boat was in Newport News shipyards for refit and they were desperate for an SK (shortage of them in submarines in the early 1980s). The temporary duty gave me a leg up on my quals. And yes, they have to surface and turn on the diesels to recharge the batteries. But they can run 24 to 30 hours submerged (might be longer, its been a long time since I had to know that)

Diesel subs haven't had to actually SURFACE to charge batteries in 60+ years.

Yeah, they can run at periscope depth and charge the batteries. But they are easy to find when they are doing that. Mostly due to the noise of the diesels.

So you agree that the reasoning for foregoing nukes in lieu of diesel-electric boats is complete and total bullshit?

And BTW, I never said diesels should replace nukes. I only remarked that diesels were very quiet when submerged, after you talked about how noisy they were.

I never said you did. I asked if you agreed with me. That "?" asks a question. Maybe at U of A that is a graduate level course.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Sweden has diesel electric subs that can stay submerged for weeks without charging. They have 5 and recently they gave the surface Navy fits trying to find them.

Were they conducting the exercise in the south Pacific? Coastal use not far from home means nothing.

 

[WinterBorn]

In 1980 as part of ASW training missions before the USS Blueback was sent across the Pacific. My boat was in Newport News shipyards for refit and they were desperate for an SK (shortage of them in submarines in the early 1980s). The temporary duty gave me a leg up on my quals. And yes, they have to surface and turn on the diesels to recharge the batteries. But they can run 24 to 30 hours submerged (might be longer, its been a long time since I had to know that)

Diesel subs haven't had to actually SURFACE to charge batteries in 60+ years.

Yeah, they can run at periscope depth and charge the batteries. But they are easy to find when they are doing that. Mostly due to the noise of the diesels.

So you agree that the reasoning for foregoing nukes in lieu of diesel-electric boats is complete and total bullshit?

And BTW, I never said diesels should replace nukes. I only remarked that diesels were very quiet when submerged, after you talked about how noisy they were.

I never said you did. I asked if you agreed with me. That "?" asks a question. Maybe at U of A that is a graduate level course.

You seemed determined to make it a thing. If not, my bad.