Unz: Ukraine is finished and ended so badly might take NATO down as well

[skye]

Actually, the only reason why EU (and some corrupted US decision-makers) could want Ukraine in NATO - is to attack on Russia.
One can even say that support of Ukrainian Nazies was an attack on Russian people.

True ^

 

[Esdraelon]

Wasn't it amazing how every Gov't in the West and Western media knew how corrupt Ukraine was, and that they had a real Nazi problem, but on Feb 24 2022, they all forgot and started saying that anybody who remembered was spreading russian propaganda...

I'll admit that I fell for it in the beginning. THEN, I remembered that the same assholes who were blaming Russia for everything had just spent 6 years doing the same to Donald Trump.

 

[Augustine_]

Interesting article on the larger implication of the loss of the proxy war: we destroyed Ukraine and likely Germany as well in the process.

Biden (the Globalists) has been the absolute worst President in US History. The Brits aren't talking to us after the Unconditional Surrender of Afghanistan (USA) the French pulled their Ambassador (you forgot, right?) and now the Germans face another winter of burning wood to keep from freezing because Biden (the Globalists) destroyed the Nordstream Pipeline....why? What was the point??

Ukraine lost a generation of their best young men. It's the most vile, disgusting, despicable thing a government has done to their own people since 911.

Poland just told Ukraine "no Mas!"

The USA military is a FUCKING JOKE! A woke disaster of 44 4-Stars 145 3-Stars AND WE'RE OUT OF AMMO!!

The world needs Regime Change. It's enough!

NATO's Losing Proxy War In Ukraine | ZeroHedge

Lol that's the dumbest shit I've ever read

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Lol that's the dumbest shit I've ever read

Hardly surprising

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The point was to destroy Russia, to even the playing field when America faces the Brics alliance.

Now the Brics alliance becomes the super power of the 21st. century.

Are ya'all sure that you hate Biden for trying?

Biden did great - for BRICS! They should have his face in their currency

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Actually, no. Russia can tolerate existence of more or less democratic and neutral Ukraine (as well as the USA can tolerate the existence of more or less friendly Canada and Mexico). America can not tolerate Soviet missiles in Cuba, Russian tanks in Canada or Chinese fleet in Hawaii, as well as Russia can't tolerate NATO bases in Ukraine.

^ perfect!!

 

[Donald H]

Biden did great - for BRICS! They should have his face in their currency

Over 10,000 Ukrainian troops surrender.

Ukrainian troops surrendering en masse – TASS

Over 10,000 Ukrainian troops have surrendered in recent weeks using a special radio frequency to contact the Russian military, TASS reports

www.rt.com

 

[skye]

Over 10,000 Ukrainian troops surrender.

Ukrainian troops surrendering en masse – TASS

Over 10,000 Ukrainian troops have surrendered in recent weeks using a special radio frequency to contact the Russian military, TASS reports

www.rt.com

Good on them! good for their families and loved ones! they did the right thing!

They knew better than being in the meat grinder!

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

It was not easy for an old anti-Vietnam War activist like myself — who also later opposed most every major U.S. war & occupation & adventure overseas & our aid to countless dictators & rightwing generals — to decide to support major NATO & U.S. assistance to the Ukrainian nationalist government.

It was especially difficult because I long opposed earlier policy errors I think the U.S. made vis-a-vis NATO & Ukraine / Russia relations … which others have also mentioned.

But Putin’s invasion and attempt to seize Kiev in 2022 changed everything. This was never just a U.S. or NATO proxy “war of choice” against Russia. Not at all. It was a “war of choice” … for Putin. For the Ukrainian people it became a struggle for their very survival as a nation against an imperialist invasion by a much larger nuclear-armed bordering state.

I am not for an “endless war” there and I do not rule out an eventual cease fire or “cold peace” or a compromise over Crimea or parts of Eastern Ukraine. But this is not a war the U.S. or the Biden Administration wanted, started, or ever hoped for. This was a war of aggression by Russia and backward “Great Russian” imperial chauvinism.

Those who say “the war is over and Russia has won” or that the “blame for this war falls primarily on the West” … are just mimicking Putin propaganda.

Of course the Ukrainian state will collapse without NATO’s help. But with our assistance they will hold, and may even cause further Russian defeats, despite their being vastly outnumbered by oil-rich Russia.

The Russian mafia state and Chinese CCP and authoritarians everywhere will be strengthened if we capitulate & abandon Ukraine now.

Those who scream this is “Biden’s War” are especially wrong. Most of them are acting as domestic ultra-partisans and just repeating their own authoritarian leader’s demagogy … which happens to very much resemble Russia’s authoritarian leader’s demagogy.

That doesn’t mean that all questioning of neo-con adventurism or “liberal imperialism” is wrong. But this war is not the same as recent ones where our troops were sent halfway around the world to seize and occupy other countries.

 

[Deadstick]

Wasn't it amazing how every Gov't in the West and Western media knew how corrupt Ukraine was, and that they had a real Nazi problem, but on Feb 24 2022, they all forgot and started saying that anybody who remembered was spreading russian propaganda...

There are still many who are in denial about the Nazi problem, but i have realised it's more than Ukraine that needs to be de Nazified it's most of the collective West, many high ranking Nato officials after the war were former Nazi officers, we see the same Nazi element in the Baltic States at Government level, they also commemorate former SS criminals, as we have seen Canada has a real problem the German Ambassador to Canada was giving a standing ovation to that SS Criminal, i believe the grand daughter of the editor of a wartime Nazi newspaper in Ukraine is hoping to be the next head of Nato, Chrystia Freeland Canadian deputy prime minister, it's also been revealed Trudeau met the SS criminal before the parliament incident, the scumbag knew who and what he was, make Nazism great again.

 

[Deadstick]

It was not easy for an old anti-Vietnam War activist like myself — who also later opposed most every major U.S. war & occupation & adventure overseas & our aid to countless dictators & rightwing generals — to decide to support major NATO & U.S. assistance to the Ukrainian nationalist government.

It was especially difficult because I long opposed earlier policy errors I think the U.S. made vis-a-vis NATO & Ukraine / Russia relations … which others have also mentioned.

But Putin’s invasion and attempt to seize Kiev in 2022 changed everything. This was never just a U.S. or NATO proxy “war of choice” against Russia. Not at all. It was a “war of choice” … for Putin. For the Ukrainian people it became a struggle for their very survival as a nation against an imperialist invasion by a much larger nuclear-armed bordering state.

I am not for an “endless war” there and I do not rule out an eventual cease fire or “cold peace” or a compromise over Crimea or parts of Eastern Ukraine. But this is not a war the U.S. or the Biden Administration wanted, started, or ever hoped for. This was a war of aggression by Russia and backward “Great Russian” imperial chauvinism.

Those who say “the war is over and Russia has won” or that the “blame for this war falls primarily on the West” … are just mimicking Putin propaganda.

Of course the Ukrainian state will collapse without NATO’s help. But with our assistance they will hold, and may even cause further Russian defeats, despite their being vastly outnumbered by oil-rich Russia.

The Russian mafia state and Chinese CCP and authoritarians everywhere will be strengthened if we capitulate & abandon Ukraine now.

Those who scream this is “Biden’s War” are especially wrong. Most of them are acting as domestic ultra-partisans and just repeating their own authoritarian leader’s demagogy … which happens to very much resemble Russia’s authoritarian leader’s demagogy.

That doesn’t mean that all questioning of neo-con adventurism or “liberal imperialism” is wrong. But this war is not the same as recent ones where our troops were sent halfway around the world to seize and occupy other countries.

You sound like a typical liberal who has lost his way now gone to the dark side supporting Nato and US Imperialism the German Greens did the same after the Nato attack on Yugoslavia, Russia had little choice but to intervene, and they didn't try to take Kiev or Ukraine, 150k troops are not enough for that, did you ignore the previous 8 years of what happened in Ukraine since the 2014? i won't go through it all again but the info is out there if you get your head out of the MSM propaganda bubble

 

[Deadstick]

Again you demonstrate that there is no rational basis for thinking NATO membership for Ukraine would lead to an attack on Russia.

Nato by it's very nature is anti Russian so i think the Russians won't take your word for anything, they see it as a threat and at the end of the day that's what matters, if the Warsaw pact when it was operational was on the Rio Grande with a rabid anti American Regime in Mexico i doubt you would be so relaxed.

 

[JohnDB]

Lol that's the dumbest shit I've ever read

It's the latest from the Disinformation horde on computers infecting the Social media platforms.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

You sound like a typical liberal who has lost his way now gone to the dark side supporting Nato and US Imperialism the German Greens did the same after the Nato attack on Yugoslavia, Russia had little choice but to intervene, and they didn't try to take Kiev or Ukraine, 150k troops are not enough for that, did you ignore the previous 8 years of what happened in Ukraine since the 2014? i won't go through it all again but the info is out there if you get your head out of the MSM propaganda bubble

At every stage I observed and reported on everything, and I forget nothing. Pro-Russian Ukrainians are now fewer than ever … given the bloody Russian attacks on their country. “Great Russian” nationalism itself is far more “fascist” today than Ukrainian nationalism.

It is not just that the Ukrainian government is led by a native Russian-speaking Jew and now has a Tatar Defense Secretary either. The vast majority of its people want to join the EU and have had to defend their sovereignty against Putin’s invasion to accomplish even that. This is not something they will forget easily. It is not their fault that Putin mis-estimated their willingness to fight, or that his plans to topple their government in Kiev was such a disastrous misadventure.

Within the Ukrainian nationalist movement of course there were and still are some real “Banderites,” but so long as Europe defends Ukrainian sovereignty, so long as Ukraine needs and allies itself with the West and keeps its independence … this will remain a leftover problem of Ukrainian national history, a political culture problem like Confederate nostalgia. That there are still millions of apologists for the slavocracy & “Southern Secession” in the U.S. today … doesn’t mean the U.S. is “fascist.”

If the U.S. abandons Ukraine and forces a pro-Putin peace on the Ukrainians, when they still are willing to fight, then the bitter “stab-in-the-back” rightwingers among them will grow stronger, not weaker. This is only one small aspect of the problem you ignore. There are many other problems with allowing Russia to hold onto the lands it has taken since 2022, with allowing it to be seen to have won. For Russia itself, the main enemy … is at home. It is in the Kremlin. It is in their own imperialist chauvinism that sees Ukraine as a part of Greater Russia. Russian fascism will only grow if Putin’s aggression triumphs.

 

[Deadstick]

At every stage I observed and reported on everything, and I forget nothing. Pro-Russian Ukrainians are now fewer than ever … given the bloody Russian attacks on their country. “Great Russian” nationalism itself is far more “fascist” today than Ukrainian nationalism.

It is not just that the Ukrainian government is led by a native Russian-speaking Jew and now has a Tatar Defense Secretary either. The vast majority of its people want to join the EU and have had to defend their sovereignty against Putin’s invasion to accomplish even that. This is not something they will forget easily. It is not their fault that Putin mis-estimated their willingness to fight, or that his plans to topple their government in Kiev was such a disastrous misadventure.

Within the Ukrainian nationalist movement of course there were and still are some real “Banderites,” but so long as Europe defends Ukrainian sovereignty, so long as Ukraine needs and allies itself with the West and keeps its independence … this will remain a leftover problem of Ukrainian national history, a political culture problem like Confederate nostalgia. That there are still millions of apologists for the slavocracy & “Southern Secession” in the U.S. today … doesn’t mean the U.S. is “fascist.”

If the U.S. abandons Ukraine and forces a pro-Putin peace on the Ukrainians, when they still are willing to fight, then the bitter “stab-in-the-back” rightwingers among them will grow stronger, not weaker. This is only one small aspect of the problem you ignore. There are many other problems with allowing Russia to hold onto the lands it has taken since 2022, with allowing it to be seen to have won. For Russia itself, the main enemy … is at home. It is in the Kremlin. It is in their own imperialist chauvinism that sees Ukraine as a part of Greater Russia. Russian fascism will only grow if Putin’s aggression triumphs.

There is no great Russian nationalism, the military intervention in Ukraine had specific reasons that don't apply to other Countries, that is the plan by the Kiev Regime to allow Nato in including the Russian base in Sevastopol, and the ethnic war against the Russian speakers in Donbass which went on for years before Russia went in, and is still going on, you are on the wrong track altogether.

 

[luiza]

It's the latest from the Disinformation horde on computers infecting the Social media platforms.

Have your brothers captured any more deserted and flattened villages ?

How is it that the Azov Sea has retreated from the Kyiv Nazis ?

Is it another Russian magic weapon ?

Is dear Uncle P making a recovery from his Stroke and heart attack . So cruel for someone already having Cancer and Dementia .
Cannot imagine how he copes .

 

[Litwin]

Interesting article on the larger implication of the loss of the proxy war: we destroyed Ukraine and likely Germany as well in the process.

Biden (the Globalists) has been the absolute worst President in US History. The Brits aren't talking to us after the Unconditional Surrender of Afghanistan (USA) the French pulled their Ambassador (you forgot, right?) and now the Germans face another winter of burning wood to keep from freezing because Biden (the Globalists) destroyed the Nordstream Pipeline....why? What was the point??

Ukraine lost a generation of their best young men. It's the most vile, disgusting, despicable thing a government has done to their own people since 911.

Poland just told Ukraine "no Mas!"

The USA military is a FUCKING JOKE! A woke disaster of 44 4-Stars 145 3-Stars AND WE'RE OUT OF AMMO!!

The world needs Regime Change. It's enough!

NATO's Losing Proxy War In Ukraine | ZeroHedge

 

[JohnDB]

 

[toomuchtime_]

Nato by it's very nature is anti Russian so i think the Russians won't take your word for anything, they see it as a threat and at the end of the day that's what matters, if the Warsaw pact when it was operational was on the Rio Grande with a rabid anti American Regime in Mexico i doubt you would be so relaxed.

Again, there is no rational scenario in which Ukraine becoming a NATO member would lead to an attack on Russia, so the only rational conclusion to be drawn from Russia's objection to NATO in eastern Europe is that it protects eastern European countries from Russian imperialism.

To put it another way, NATO is not anti Russian but anti Russian imperialism.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

View attachment 835310

Make Peace, you fools!