Andrew2382
Gold Member
- Oct 1, 2008
- 3,994
- 551
- 153
A lot of people are on the bandwagon thinking that Universal Healthcare will be the greatest thing to happen to this country since the industrial revolution. It is just one step closer to be a socialistic society and taking a step that has known massive failures all around the world.
There are many countries that use this sort of socialistic health program however; they have their problems as well. Once we are in a society that has a Universal healthcare program established, you will see many things change in the things we were accustomed too.
Let's take a good look to the best example our wonderful tundra to the north, Canada.
http://www.fraserinstitut...newsrelease.aspx?nID=4967
"Ontario recorded the shortest waiting time overall (the wait between visiting a general practitioner and receiving treatment), at 15 weeks, followed by British Columbia (19 weeks) and Quebec (19.4 weeks). Saskatchewan (27.2 weeks), New Brunswick (25.2 weeks) and Nova Scotia (24.8 weeks) recorded the longest waits in Canada"
25 weeks to see your MD. We complain about having to wait 45 minutes in the doctor's office.
How about the wait tile from the MD to a specialist?
"The First Wait: Between General Practitioner and Specialist Consultation
The waiting time between referral by a GP and consultation with a specialist rose to 9.2 weeks from the 8.8 weeks recorded in 2006. The shortest waits for specialist consultations were in Ontario (7.6 weeks), Manitoba (8.2 weeks), and British Columbia (8.8 weeks).
The longest waits for consultation with a specialist were recorded in New Brunswick (14.7 weeks), Newfoundland (13.5 weeks), and Prince Edward Island (12.7 weeks)."
I can also site examples of cases where people have gone to their MD about let's say a
"Headache" and have to wait 3 months to see a specialist and in those 3 months die.
It isn't pretty.
Let's say you finally get to that specialist and you need to get an MRI or a CAT scan...Well, I know I myself won't have to wait more then a few days here to get one. Go to Canada.
"The median wait for a CT scan across Canada was 4.8 weeks. British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia had the shortest wait for CT scans (4 weeks), while the longest wait occurred in Manitoba (8 weeks). The median wait for an MRI across Canada was 10.1 weeks. Patients in Ontario experienced the shortest wait for an MRI (7.8 weeks), while Newfoundland residents waited longest (20 weeks). The median wait for ultrasound was 3.9 weeks across Canada. Alberta and Ontario displayed the shortest wait for ultrasound (2 weeks), while Prince Edward Island and Manitoba exhibited the longest ultrasound waiting time (10 weeks)."
8 weeks for a cat scan? 20 weeks for an MRI? Are you serious? Is this what people actually want for our great country, having to wait 5 months to receive an MRI?
If Universal healthcare is so great, why didn't Ted Kennedy receive his treatment in Canada or Cuba? He didn't, he received the best treatment money can buy.
Let's take a swim across the ocean to our wonderful allies in England.
How many people have died because the government won't pay for a certain type of medication because it is
A- Too Expensive
B- Only meant to extend life.
Look at these examples:
http://www.nypost.com/sev...would_kill_ted_114032.htm
"Problem is, governments that promise to "cover everyone" always wind up cutting corners simply to save money. People with Kennedy's condition are dying or dead as a result.
Consider Jennifer Bell of Norwich, England. In 2006, the 22-year-old complained of headaches for months - but Britain's National Health Service made her wait a year to see a neurologist.
Then she had to wait more than three months before should could get what the NHS decided was only a "relatively urgent" MRI scan. Three days before the MRI appointment, she died.
Consider, too, the chemo drug Kennedy is receiving: Temodar, the first oral medicine for brain tumors in 25 years.
Temodar has been widely used in this country since the FDA approved it in 2000. But a British health-care rationing agency, the National Institute for Comparative Effectiveness, ruled that, while the drug helps people live longer, it wasn't worth the money - and denied coverage for it.
Barack Obama - and other Democrats - have been pushing a Senate bill to set up a similar US "review board" for Medicare and any future government health-care plan.
After denying this treatment completely for seven years, the NICE (did whoever named it intend the irony?) relented - partly. Even today, only a handful of Brits with brain tumors can get Temodar.
And if you want to pay for Temodar out of your own pocket, the British system forces you to pay for all of your cancer care - about $30,000 a month. "
30 grand a month, just to be able to live a little longer. God Save The Queen, I hope God has his own personal PPO.
Here is another example from that article from Canada again-
"Things are no different in Canada, where the wait for an MRI (once you finally get a referral) has grown to 10 weeks. For Canadians relying on their government health care, the average wait time from diagnosis of cancer to surgery is beyond the guideline set by both the US and European societies for surgical oncology.
And Health Canada, the government system, similar refuses to pay for treatments that are often covered in America.
Chad Curley, a 37-year-old auto worker from Windsor, Ontario, had a brain tumor like Kennedy's but can't have surgery because his is too large to be operable.
His tumor didn't respond to Temodar and the same doctors now treating Sen. Kennedy told him and his wife that the Avastin combination could stop his tumor from growing and add months to his life. But Health Canada wouldn't pay to use Avastin to treat his tumor.
Chad's family and friends scraped together the $5,000 for the first round of treatment in mid-November; they later saw Chad's left-side paralysis start to subside. But the money ran out - and he died on Feb. 21."
There is a new term going around these days, perhaps many people are not familiar with it. It is called "Medical Tourism". Basically it means a person from Canada, England etc... come to a country like the United States and on their 'vacation', BOOM I need a knee replacement. Happens constantly.
Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"While much attention has been given to the growing trend of U.S. citizens seeking health care in other countries, other evidence points out that the largest segment of medical travelers are headed stateside.["
Now, the main argument is everyone deserves insurance and to be covered and we have something like 45 million uninsured.
Well let us take a look at that a little more closely...
HOW COVERAGE VARIES
Illegal immigrants are less likely to have health coverage than others:
Adults
Type
Uninsured
U.S. citizens
14%
Legal immigrants
25%
Illegal immigrants
59%
Children
Type
Uninsured
U.S. citizens
9%
Citizens whose parents are legal immigrants
13%
Foreign-born children of legal immigrants
25%
Citizens with illegal immigrant parents
25%
Foreign-born children of illegal immigrants
53%
Source: Pew Hispanic Center, 2005
So, to sum it up
in Adults you have 59% of the uninsured are illegal immigrants compared to 14% US citizens
Children- 53% Foreign born children of Illegal Immigrants and 25% of citizens with illegal immigrants. Compared to 9% US citizens.
Seems to me we have an immigration problem, not so much a healthcare problem.
And when it comes to premiums, I have said this many times myself, premiums are individually based. I am in the Insurance business (not medical). However, if you smoke and weigh 300 pounds then yes you are going to pay more. The problem in this country is obesity and quite frankly no one takes care of themselves anymore, and the insurance companies are on the hook. You know a lot of companies out there, Humana being one of them will pay your gym membership.
Say NO to Universal Healthcare!
There are many countries that use this sort of socialistic health program however; they have their problems as well. Once we are in a society that has a Universal healthcare program established, you will see many things change in the things we were accustomed too.
Let's take a good look to the best example our wonderful tundra to the north, Canada.
http://www.fraserinstitut...newsrelease.aspx?nID=4967
"Ontario recorded the shortest waiting time overall (the wait between visiting a general practitioner and receiving treatment), at 15 weeks, followed by British Columbia (19 weeks) and Quebec (19.4 weeks). Saskatchewan (27.2 weeks), New Brunswick (25.2 weeks) and Nova Scotia (24.8 weeks) recorded the longest waits in Canada"
25 weeks to see your MD. We complain about having to wait 45 minutes in the doctor's office.
How about the wait tile from the MD to a specialist?
"The First Wait: Between General Practitioner and Specialist Consultation
The waiting time between referral by a GP and consultation with a specialist rose to 9.2 weeks from the 8.8 weeks recorded in 2006. The shortest waits for specialist consultations were in Ontario (7.6 weeks), Manitoba (8.2 weeks), and British Columbia (8.8 weeks).
The longest waits for consultation with a specialist were recorded in New Brunswick (14.7 weeks), Newfoundland (13.5 weeks), and Prince Edward Island (12.7 weeks)."
I can also site examples of cases where people have gone to their MD about let's say a
"Headache" and have to wait 3 months to see a specialist and in those 3 months die.
It isn't pretty.
Let's say you finally get to that specialist and you need to get an MRI or a CAT scan...Well, I know I myself won't have to wait more then a few days here to get one. Go to Canada.
"The median wait for a CT scan across Canada was 4.8 weeks. British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia had the shortest wait for CT scans (4 weeks), while the longest wait occurred in Manitoba (8 weeks). The median wait for an MRI across Canada was 10.1 weeks. Patients in Ontario experienced the shortest wait for an MRI (7.8 weeks), while Newfoundland residents waited longest (20 weeks). The median wait for ultrasound was 3.9 weeks across Canada. Alberta and Ontario displayed the shortest wait for ultrasound (2 weeks), while Prince Edward Island and Manitoba exhibited the longest ultrasound waiting time (10 weeks)."
8 weeks for a cat scan? 20 weeks for an MRI? Are you serious? Is this what people actually want for our great country, having to wait 5 months to receive an MRI?
If Universal healthcare is so great, why didn't Ted Kennedy receive his treatment in Canada or Cuba? He didn't, he received the best treatment money can buy.
Let's take a swim across the ocean to our wonderful allies in England.
How many people have died because the government won't pay for a certain type of medication because it is
A- Too Expensive
B- Only meant to extend life.
Look at these examples:
http://www.nypost.com/sev...would_kill_ted_114032.htm
"Problem is, governments that promise to "cover everyone" always wind up cutting corners simply to save money. People with Kennedy's condition are dying or dead as a result.
Consider Jennifer Bell of Norwich, England. In 2006, the 22-year-old complained of headaches for months - but Britain's National Health Service made her wait a year to see a neurologist.
Then she had to wait more than three months before should could get what the NHS decided was only a "relatively urgent" MRI scan. Three days before the MRI appointment, she died.
Consider, too, the chemo drug Kennedy is receiving: Temodar, the first oral medicine for brain tumors in 25 years.
Temodar has been widely used in this country since the FDA approved it in 2000. But a British health-care rationing agency, the National Institute for Comparative Effectiveness, ruled that, while the drug helps people live longer, it wasn't worth the money - and denied coverage for it.
Barack Obama - and other Democrats - have been pushing a Senate bill to set up a similar US "review board" for Medicare and any future government health-care plan.
After denying this treatment completely for seven years, the NICE (did whoever named it intend the irony?) relented - partly. Even today, only a handful of Brits with brain tumors can get Temodar.
And if you want to pay for Temodar out of your own pocket, the British system forces you to pay for all of your cancer care - about $30,000 a month. "
30 grand a month, just to be able to live a little longer. God Save The Queen, I hope God has his own personal PPO.
Here is another example from that article from Canada again-
"Things are no different in Canada, where the wait for an MRI (once you finally get a referral) has grown to 10 weeks. For Canadians relying on their government health care, the average wait time from diagnosis of cancer to surgery is beyond the guideline set by both the US and European societies for surgical oncology.
And Health Canada, the government system, similar refuses to pay for treatments that are often covered in America.
Chad Curley, a 37-year-old auto worker from Windsor, Ontario, had a brain tumor like Kennedy's but can't have surgery because his is too large to be operable.
His tumor didn't respond to Temodar and the same doctors now treating Sen. Kennedy told him and his wife that the Avastin combination could stop his tumor from growing and add months to his life. But Health Canada wouldn't pay to use Avastin to treat his tumor.
Chad's family and friends scraped together the $5,000 for the first round of treatment in mid-November; they later saw Chad's left-side paralysis start to subside. But the money ran out - and he died on Feb. 21."
There is a new term going around these days, perhaps many people are not familiar with it. It is called "Medical Tourism". Basically it means a person from Canada, England etc... come to a country like the United States and on their 'vacation', BOOM I need a knee replacement. Happens constantly.
Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"While much attention has been given to the growing trend of U.S. citizens seeking health care in other countries, other evidence points out that the largest segment of medical travelers are headed stateside.["
Now, the main argument is everyone deserves insurance and to be covered and we have something like 45 million uninsured.
Well let us take a look at that a little more closely...
HOW COVERAGE VARIES
Illegal immigrants are less likely to have health coverage than others:
Adults
Type
Uninsured
U.S. citizens
14%
Legal immigrants
25%
Illegal immigrants
59%
Children
Type
Uninsured
U.S. citizens
9%
Citizens whose parents are legal immigrants
13%
Foreign-born children of legal immigrants
25%
Citizens with illegal immigrant parents
25%
Foreign-born children of illegal immigrants
53%
Source: Pew Hispanic Center, 2005
So, to sum it up
in Adults you have 59% of the uninsured are illegal immigrants compared to 14% US citizens
Children- 53% Foreign born children of Illegal Immigrants and 25% of citizens with illegal immigrants. Compared to 9% US citizens.
Seems to me we have an immigration problem, not so much a healthcare problem.
And when it comes to premiums, I have said this many times myself, premiums are individually based. I am in the Insurance business (not medical). However, if you smoke and weigh 300 pounds then yes you are going to pay more. The problem in this country is obesity and quite frankly no one takes care of themselves anymore, and the insurance companies are on the hook. You know a lot of companies out there, Humana being one of them will pay your gym membership.
Say NO to Universal Healthcare!
