Unions to levy 10 dollar fee against members to support Obama re-election bid

[Steelplate]

Oh what a tangled web we weave when we plot to deceive.

So if the government forms a death squad to knock off political rivals and pay them with tax money are they being paid to do the work the taxpayers expect?

Your argument is so disingenuous as to belie even the concept of honesty.

I love it... you open up you post talking about deception, then you go on some stupid rant equating teachers to death squads. Face it dude... you lost.

Obviously you don't get it, do you. It's called argumentum in extremis. By following the logic out to it's extreme end, it shows how the concept is invalid.

Just because the government has money doesn't mean what it does is by the will of the people. That's blowing merry sunshine up their own asses, not truth. So whether they are paying teachers, sewer workers, blue ribbon panels, paper shufflers, librarians, cops or death squads does not mean automatically, it is the will of the people and 'what they expect' of government.

Well, if it's the "will of the people" you are so worried about... then why do you righties hate Democracy so much... oh... I know... because it doesn't guarantee the will of the "people" you support.

 

[Conservative]

this thread is getting very weird.

 

[Big Fitz]

I love it... you open up you post talking about deception, then you go on some stupid rant equating teachers to death squads. Face it dude... you lost.

Obviously you don't get it, do you. It's called argumentum in extremis. By following the logic out to it's extreme end, it shows how the concept is invalid.

Just because the government has money doesn't mean what it does is by the will of the people. That's blowing merry sunshine up their own asses, not truth. So whether they are paying teachers, sewer workers, blue ribbon panels, paper shufflers, librarians, cops or death squads does not mean automatically, it is the will of the people and 'what they expect' of government.

Well, if it's the "will of the people" you are so worried about... then why do you righties hate Democracy so much... oh... I know... because it doesn't guarantee the will of the "people" you support.

Like our founders, I distrust Mob Rule. Mob Rule gave us the French Revolution and Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Rwanda, Bosnia, Serbia, Chechnya, Cambodia/Kampuchea, Red China, Venezuela, El Salvador, Cuba and many many other disasters.

This is why we are a representative republic with checks and balances on the power of the mob. Although it is deteriorated thanks to the direct election of senators creating 2 houses of commons instead of 1 balanced by an advocacy for the state in the senate, it is still there to some degree. The Electoral College prevents mob rule of more population states over less populated once for presidential elections, and thank God for it. Checks and balances are not by party, but by branches of government as well as by local, state and federal levels. The original system is still brilliant and the best preservator of individual freedom from the mob, while allowing the aggregate will of the people to be expressed in tempered means.

We don't need another Napoleon, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, Chavez, Zalaya, or any other would be Generalissimo, and that is ALWAYS the result of mob rule. You'd think the Civil Rights movement would have taught that to leftwing nutjobs, but no... not so much. The minority should only be obeyed when it is them. Otherwise all opposition should be silent.

The trait of thugs and tyrants, no matter how petty or numerous the tin pots are.

 

[Big Fitz]

Wry the teachers get paid by whom?do you understand that once you pay them for the service they rendered its no longer your money right?
the tax payer
Whose wealth is it that pay them?
the tax payerits not your money anymore
whose wealth is it that paid for the stimulus?
the tax payer
who benefited most from the stimulus?
the teacher
Who paid for the failed stimulus?
the tax payer teachers are tax payers

who is it exactly that is paying for this mandatory donation?
what does the right have to do with this? how can you even begin to pretend this is ok?

Who is being harmed the most by republicans cramming legistaltion and tax breaks for the corporations at the state level right now?

The people.

Americans want taxes raised and you care nothi ng about that.

Actually, Americans want taxes cut, spending CUT even more, the budget BALANCED, and the government shrunk to the size it is legally intended by the Constitution. That is why the Dumbocrats were kicked out of government last November in the biggest lopsided election in US history. From congress all the way down to local county auditor's, the juvenile reckless spending liberals were thrown out of office. And it's clear by your comments that liberals STILL have not LEARNED a damn thing.

The only time government spending is desired by the public is when they think someone ELSE is paying for it... not them.

 

[HUGGY]

Teachers Unions to hammer their members with another fee just for Obama. If this wasn't so stupid I almost dismissed it as a joke.
Didn't we just go through several months of the Unions screaming about "fair treatment"? Don't teachers cry about buying school supplies with their own money?
But now, "without consent or asking" the union will now "take" more money from teachers without a second thought in support of Obama.
If you ask me shouldn't Mr O stand up and say "i will not stand by why you are forced to contribute from your already small pay check for my benefit"

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/johnransom/2011/07/05/obamas_price_$10_tax_for_union_teachers-_you_pay

Have and display some dignity Mr O.

You mean to tell me that these teachers went all the way through college and never figured out that they would have to join a union to teach in public schools? Why would we want people that dumb teaching our kids?

Union reps are elected by the local teachers. State and national union leadership is also elected. No one is appointed. Reps get elected to do what they think is best for their members. If the members would rather have a different approach then they are free to elect reps that reflect their wishes.

Another point already made is that the SCOTUS made it clear that unions can donate unlimited amounts to candidates. Those of you that supported Bush and his court appointments have to realize that there are consequences to elections.

THirdly.. no one has a gun to their head..unless possibly by a student...to become a teacher in a public school. Teachers are free to get jobs in teaching environments that do not require union participation.

 

[Steelplate]

Obviously you don't get it, do you. It's called argumentum in extremis. By following the logic out to it's extreme end, it shows how the concept is invalid.

Just because the government has money doesn't mean what it does is by the will of the people. That's blowing merry sunshine up their own asses, not truth. So whether they are paying teachers, sewer workers, blue ribbon panels, paper shufflers, librarians, cops or death squads does not mean automatically, it is the will of the people and 'what they expect' of government.

Well, if it's the "will of the people" you are so worried about... then why do you righties hate Democracy so much... oh... I know... because it doesn't guarantee the will of the "people" you support.

Like our founders, I distrust Mob Rule. Mob Rule gave us the French Revolution and Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Rwanda, Bosnia, Serbia, Chechnya, Cambodia/Kampuchea, Red China, Venezuela, El Salvador, Cuba and many many other disasters.

This is why we are a representative republic with checks and balances on the power of the mob. Although it is deteriorated thanks to the direct election of senators creating 2 houses of commons instead of 1 balanced by an advocacy for the state in the senate, it is still there to some degree. The Electoral College prevents mob rule of more population states over less populated once for presidential elections, and thank God for it. Checks and balances are not by party, but by branches of government as well as by local, state and federal levels. The original system is still brilliant and the best preservator of individual freedom from the mob, while allowing the aggregate will of the people to be expressed in tempered means.

We don't need another Napoleon, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, Chavez, Zalaya, or any other would be Generalissimo, and that is ALWAYS the result of mob rule. You'd think the Civil Rights movement would have taught that to leftwing nutjobs, but no... not so much. The minority should only be obeyed when it is them. Otherwise all opposition should be silent.

The trait of thugs and tyrants, no matter how petty or numerous the tin pots are.

Isn't that what happened in 2008? BEFORE the ruling on the SuperPacs? Wasn't that the "will of the people" A president and Congress were elected on the platform of Health Care, Wall Street Reform, Bringing the tax rates for the wealthy back to Clinton era levels, Gay Rights, and other things.

Why wasn't your side listening to the will of the people?

EDIT: BTW... all those other countries you listed? Never had a Democracy. One where people have the power of the vote. Your analogies are dead wrong.

 

[Big Fitz]

A president and Congress were elected on the platform of Health Care, Wall Street Reform, Bringing the tax rates for the wealthy back to Clinton era levels, Gay Rights, and other things.

And they got their health care and wall street reform pushed through and it cost them nigh everything in 2010. I guess that WASN'T the will of the people after all as all of these 'reforms' are under assault on all sides.

The rich have hidden their wealth from the greedy bastards in government trying to steal it. The state houses and governorships who have been preaching class warfare have almost all been overturned. The middle class is being burried under debt and increased taxes by idiots who see small business owners as the 'jet set' they CAN touch with taxes, and destroying everything from the local corner cafe owner to the family farm, leaving only foreign owned corporations who have to lobby hard for subsidies and tax breaks to avoid paying onerous taxation that would force them completely out of this nation.

Where've YOU been since 2008? At an Obama worship service?

 

[Big Fitz]

Well, if it's the "will of the people" you are so worried about... then why do you righties hate Democracy so much... oh... I know... because it doesn't guarantee the will of the "people" you support.

Like our founders, I distrust Mob Rule. Mob Rule gave us the French Revolution and Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Rwanda, Bosnia, Serbia, Chechnya, Cambodia/Kampuchea, Red China, Venezuela, El Salvador, Cuba and many many other disasters.

This is why we are a representative republic with checks and balances on the power of the mob. Although it is deteriorated thanks to the direct election of senators creating 2 houses of commons instead of 1 balanced by an advocacy for the state in the senate, it is still there to some degree. The Electoral College prevents mob rule of more population states over less populated once for presidential elections, and thank God for it. Checks and balances are not by party, but by branches of government as well as by local, state and federal levels. The original system is still brilliant and the best preservator of individual freedom from the mob, while allowing the aggregate will of the people to be expressed in tempered means.

We don't need another Napoleon, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, Chavez, Zalaya, or any other would be Generalissimo, and that is ALWAYS the result of mob rule. You'd think the Civil Rights movement would have taught that to leftwing nutjobs, but no... not so much. The minority should only be obeyed when it is them. Otherwise all opposition should be silent.

The trait of thugs and tyrants, no matter how petty or numerous the tin pots are.

Isn't that what happened in 2008? BEFORE the ruling on the SuperPacs? Wasn't that the "will of the people" A president and Congress were elected on the platform of Health Care, Wall Street Reform, Bringing the tax rates for the wealthy back to Clinton era levels, Gay Rights, and other things.

Why wasn't your side listening to the will of the people?

EDIT: BTW... all those other countries you listed? Never had a Democracy. One where people have the power of the vote. Your analogies are dead wrong.

BTW, France and Germany were never Democracies? Wow. Pick up a fucking history book. that was printed before 1960 and look. To say your clueless is a masterpiece of understatement.

Don't forget as well that Castro, Zalaya, Chavez, Ortega, Stalin and Mao were elected and RE-elected to their positions. Zalaya tried to violate the constitution and become a dictator in Honduras but failed.

 

[Steelplate]

Like our founders, I distrust Mob Rule. Mob Rule gave us the French Revolution and Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Rwanda, Bosnia, Serbia, Chechnya, Cambodia/Kampuchea, Red China, Venezuela, El Salvador, Cuba and many many other disasters.

This is why we are a representative republic with checks and balances on the power of the mob. Although it is deteriorated thanks to the direct election of senators creating 2 houses of commons instead of 1 balanced by an advocacy for the state in the senate, it is still there to some degree. The Electoral College prevents mob rule of more population states over less populated once for presidential elections, and thank God for it. Checks and balances are not by party, but by branches of government as well as by local, state and federal levels. The original system is still brilliant and the best preservator of individual freedom from the mob, while allowing the aggregate will of the people to be expressed in tempered means.

We don't need another Napoleon, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, Chavez, Zalaya, or any other would be Generalissimo, and that is ALWAYS the result of mob rule. You'd think the Civil Rights movement would have taught that to leftwing nutjobs, but no... not so much. The minority should only be obeyed when it is them. Otherwise all opposition should be silent.

The trait of thugs and tyrants, no matter how petty or numerous the tin pots are.

Isn't that what happened in 2008? BEFORE the ruling on the SuperPacs? Wasn't that the "will of the people" A president and Congress were elected on the platform of Health Care, Wall Street Reform, Bringing the tax rates for the wealthy back to Clinton era levels, Gay Rights, and other things.

Why wasn't your side listening to the will of the people?

EDIT: BTW... all those other countries you listed? Never had a Democracy. One where people have the power of the vote. Your analogies are dead wrong.

BTW, France and Germany were never Democracies? Wow. Pick up a fucking history book. that was printed before 1960 and look. To say your clueless is a masterpiece of understatement.

Don't forget as well that Castro, Zalaya, Chavez, Ortega, Stalin and Mao were elected and RE-elected to their positions. Zalaya tried to violate the constitution and become a dictator in Honduras but failed.

Ok... you got me on Germany. But France... at the time of the French Revolution was not a Democracy.. it was a monarchy.

The rest? Bullshit. if you call elections with one option Democratic, I guess I understand your angst against the practice.

 

[Big Fitz]

Isn't that what happened in 2008? BEFORE the ruling on the SuperPacs? Wasn't that the "will of the people" A president and Congress were elected on the platform of Health Care, Wall Street Reform, Bringing the tax rates for the wealthy back to Clinton era levels, Gay Rights, and other things.

Why wasn't your side listening to the will of the people?

EDIT: BTW... all those other countries you listed? Never had a Democracy. One where people have the power of the vote. Your analogies are dead wrong.

BTW, France and Germany were never Democracies? Wow. Pick up a fucking history book. that was printed before 1960 and look. To say your clueless is a masterpiece of understatement.

Don't forget as well that Castro, Zalaya, Chavez, Ortega, Stalin and Mao were elected and RE-elected to their positions. Zalaya tried to violate the constitution and become a dictator in Honduras but failed.

Ok... you got me on Germany. But France... at the time of the French Revolution was not a Democracy.. it was a monarchy.

The rest? Bullshit. if you call elections with one option Democratic, I guess I understand your angst against the practice.

And attempted to become a democracy during the French Revolution till it was corrupted through Robespierre and then ultimately 'elected' by mob rule Napoleon who seized control and never looked back. Same as Hitler did.

But then again, as historically ignorant as you are, I don't expect you to get any of this.

 

[Jarhead]

I see this as no different than a corporation donating money to a campaign.
I have no issue with it.
However, the union employees may...especially the ones that dont want to have Obama re-elected.

 

[Steelplate]

I see this as no different than a corporation donating money to a campaign.
I have no issue with it.
However, the union employees may...especially the ones that dont want to have Obama re-elected.

then they can opt out.

 

[keee keee]

Time for teachers to get new people in charge at the Halls. I would be really pissed if this happened to me. When I was in a union I was alway sent notes on who to vote for and every time I voted the oppisite. No wonder why the kids in the US are the way they are, the braindead teaching the future braindead and brain washed!!!! God help this country

 

[Jarhead]

I see this as no different than a corporation donating money to a campaign.
I have no issue with it.
However, the union employees may...especially the ones that dont want to have Obama re-elected.

then they can opt out.

Cool.
So whats the problem/ complaint?

I see none.

 

[Trajan]

from the linked piece...

“They also voted for a $10 annual dues increase that will be dedicated to funding NEA's Crisis Fund, a program designed to put money back into the states for pro-public education outreach.”

UNless you have another piece that states this 'crisis fund' is going to ads that promote Obama's re-election, it's supposition. You know... the stuff some conservatives accuse the liebrals of all the time?

good catch, the question then becomes, what is the platform of the crisis fund i.e. it appears, appears mind you that they have only one way to go, that is to run ala "pro-public education outreach" and its content is what the question is. I think I can guess...*shrugs*

 

[AmericanFirst]

Teachers Unions to hammer their members with another fee just for Obama. If this wasn't so stupid I almost dismissed it as a joke.
Didn't we just go through several months of the Unions screaming about "fair treatment"? Don't teachers cry about buying school supplies with their own money?
But now, "without consent or asking" the union will now "take" more money from teachers without a second thought in support of Obama.
If you ask me shouldn't Mr O stand up and say "i will not stand by why you are forced to contribute from your already small pay check for my benefit"

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/johnransom/2011/07/05/obamas_price_$10_tax_for_union_teachers-_you_pay

Have and display some dignity Mr O.

Just one more reason not to be a union member. Glad I am not. If I was and they did that i would drop out so fast the socialists would be crying, then I would throw a socialists are crying party.

 

[Steelplate]

I see this as no different than a corporation donating money to a campaign.
I have no issue with it.
However, the union employees may...especially the ones that dont want to have Obama re-elected.

then they can opt out.

Cool.
So whats the problem/ complaint?

I see none.

me neither. I think it's because of the word "union" and some people's reaction to that word.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Government Unions are scams. Anyone with common sense knows this. How do you think these Teachers will cover for that extra $10 Fee? Well,they'll just rape the Taxpayer again to cover for it. The Taxpayers always lose in this scam. It's a vicious circle for sure...The Union Leaders rape their Members and then the Members rape the Taxpayers. And it's all made possible by the Democrats. Just abolish all Government Unions and end this awful scam once and for all. Government Unions should be a thing of the past.

 

[Jarhead]

then they can opt out.

Cool.
So whats the problem/ complaint?

I see none.

me neither. I think it's because of the word "union" and some people's reaction to that word.

As a business planner...I have serious issues with unions. One of my clients is going to have to close one of his shops becuase of the union.....and the union refuses to bend....and over 50 people will lose their jobs....all becuase the union refuses to allow for higher salaries for new employees with a different skill set.....a skill set that is now required.....

But what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If corporations can have a say in the political arena...so hsould all other entities.

 

[Steelplate]

Government Unions are scams. Anyone with common sense knows this. How do you think these Teachers will cover for that extra $10 Fee? Well,they'll just rape the Taxpayer again to cover for it. The Taxpayers always lose in this scam. It's a vicious circle for sure...The Union Leaders rape their Members and then the Members rape the Taxpayers. And it's all made possible by the Democrats. Just abolish all Government Unions and end this awful scam once and for all. Government Unions should be a thing of the past.

Blah blah blah... Unions.... blah blah blah.

This is what I was referring to.

Anything to help the Conglomerate dictate terms to the working people. Ban Unions! Ban Health Care! Ban everything that takes power away from the beloved elite... those that we worship... our saviors.

See? I can speak in lunatic too.