Unacceptable Redistribution of Wealth

[Liability]

What Maple, Ringel05 and others don't understand is the concept of the 'social compact.' You benefitted from being here as Americans, guys, and you are going to contribute your fair share to a better America. Don't like it? Move to Mexico. You will fit right in. Take Elvis and divecon with you.

Define "fair share".
I hear "fair share" when it comes to people claiming the rich don't pay enough tax, but I have yet to have anybody satisfactorily define what "fair share" means.

This should be good...in my estimation? Anyone that has steady employment and isn't leeching off of taxpayers and PAYING taxes are doing their "fairshare".

Wait wait wait. You are not thinking like a lib.

You MAKE money?

But that guy over on the curb, ove there? He doesn't have a job.

As long as we have that kind of inequality, you are not doing your fair share because unequal means unfair.*

Thus, unless you pay FAR MORE in taxes, you are not doing your FAIR share!

________________________
* Put the objections of formal logic aside. Fallacies are fine in lib land! I already said you are failing to think like a liberal, didn't I?

 

[rightwinger]

Where our wealth is right now

US Wealth Distribution

US Wealth Distribution

One way to ‘see’ the distribution of wealth in the U.S. is to imagine a group of 100 people who have a $100 between them. Evenly distributed each would have one dollar of wealth. Alas, that is far from the actual distribution. According to the most recent study, Currents and Undercurrents, by the Survey of Consumer Finance (Federal Reserve, Department of Treasury, 2006) wealth is distributed accordingly:

50 individuals at the bottom have a nickel. ($0.05 times 50 = $2.50)

The next 40 each have $0.70 of wealth (40 times $0.70 - $28.00).

The next 9 each have $4.00 of wealth (nine times $4.00 = $36.00)

The last richest individual has $33.40 (one time $33.40).


Read more: See the Distribution of Wealth in US (McCain, Obama, cost) - Politics and Other Controversies - City-Data Forum

 

[rdean]

Define "fair share".
I hear "fair share" when it comes to people claiming the rich don't pay enough tax, but I have yet to have anybody satisfactorily define what "fair share" means.

This should be good...in my estimation? Anyone that has steady employment and isn't leeching off of taxpayers and PAYING taxes are doing their "fairshare".

Wait wait wait. You are not thinking like a lib.

You MAKE money?

But that guy over on the curb, ove there? He doesn't have a job.

As long as we have that kind of inequality, you are not doing your fair share because unequal means unfair.*

Thus, unless you pay FAR MORE in taxes, you are not doing your FAIR share!

________________________
* Put the objections of formal logic aside. Fallacies are fine in lib land! I already said you are failing to think like a liberal, didn't I?

Buffett blasts system that lets him pay less tax than secretary

 

[The T]

Define "fair share".
I hear "fair share" when it comes to people claiming the rich don't pay enough tax, but I have yet to have anybody satisfactorily define what "fair share" means.

This should be good...in my estimation? Anyone that has steady employment and isn't leeching off of taxpayers and PAYING taxes are doing their "fairshare".

Wait wait wait. You are not thinking like a lib.

You MAKE money?

But that guy over on the curb, ove there? He doesn't have a job.

As long as we have that kind of inequality, you are not doing your fair share because unequal means unfair.*

Thus, unless you pay FAR MORE in taxes, you are not doing your FAIR share!

________________________
* Put the objections of formal logic aside. Fallacies are fine in lib land! I already said you are failing to think like a liberal, didn't I?

I had written an entire disertation, but in reading the fine print? Assuming the role of Liberal is just too easy, simplistic mob mentality. [And that assumes that the 'thinking' process ever takes place from the start] I never subscribed. Give me a larger challange?

 

[JFK_USA]

What is amazing about the census numbers is that in a collapsing economy, the rich somehow got richer. The rightwingnuts criticize the poor and somehow think that it is the poor who are getting hurt. It is every working American who has less. You pay more for homes, your childs education, energy, healthcare....meanwhile salaries remain stagnant and the rich get richer

Yeah its really pathetic. Republicans are always defending these rich people so they can take more money froom us while it gets harder and harder every year to try to get rich. And the right wing nut jobs yesterday saying we don't want government involved are just stupid.

You let republicans and business executives determine how money should be distributed, we will be a third world country in no time.

 

[The T]

This should be good...in my estimation? Anyone that has steady employment and isn't leeching off of taxpayers and PAYING taxes are doing their "fairshare".

Wait wait wait. You are not thinking like a lib.

You MAKE money?

But that guy over on the curb, ove there? He doesn't have a job.

As long as we have that kind of inequality, you are not doing your fair share because unequal means unfair.*

Thus, unless you pay FAR MORE in taxes, you are not doing your FAIR share!

________________________
* Put the objections of formal logic aside. Fallacies are fine in lib land! I already said you are failing to think like a liberal, didn't I?

Buffett blasts system that lets him pay less tax than secretary

Good for Warren Buffoon. Scrap the entire Tax Code, and go for the FAIRTAX, and be done with it.

 

[Liability]

Where our wealth is right now

US Wealth Distribution

US Wealth Distribution

One way to ‘see’ the distribution of wealth in the U.S. is to imagine a group of 100 people who have a $100 between them. Evenly distributed each would have one dollar of wealth. Alas, that is far from the actual distribution. According to the most recent study, Currents and Undercurrents, by the Survey of Consumer Finance (Federal Reserve, Department of Treasury, 2006) wealth is distributed accordingly:

50 individuals at the bottom have a nickel. ($0.05 times 50 = $2.50)

The next 40 each have $0.70 of wealth (40 times $0.70 - $28.00).

The next 9 each have $4.00 of wealth (nine times $4.00 = $36.00)

The last richest individual has $33.40 (one time $33.40).


Read more: See the Distribution of Wealth in US (McCain, Obama, cost) - Politics and Other Controversies - City-Data Forum

Hey, leftwinger. How are you and your deliberately false username doing today?

If I was in a bar alone and Bill Gates walked in, the average wealth of the folks in the bar would be HUGE. But that wouldn't help me out at all.

If I was in a crowded auditorium and Bill Gates walked in, STILL the average wealth of all of the People in that room would jump dramatically! But that STILL wouldn't help me out, individually, one iota.

So the question becomes: is there any chance of even the faintest beginning of a point to your rather irrational presentation of wealth distribution (other than laying the foundation used by socialists to justify confiscating wealth from earners to redistribute it to those who couldn't be bothered to earn it)?

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

The OP is nothing more than distorted partisan drivel. Have you ever seen water trickle upward? That appears to be what you want to promote.

The economy is bad. The mess did not start with former President Bush, although he has dirty hands. Both major parties ( as a whole ) are to blame for the mess. And more succinctly, the employers who have been enabling out of control government are to blame as well.

It makes no logical or economic sense to parade around with the idea of taxing those who pay the most and produce the most more. The rich and others should not have to be paying to help wipe some other American's butt because they can't get their act together. Life is hard wear a helmet.

When the federal government takes money from me to pay for welfare services for citizens in other states, that is unacceptable. It is not congruent with the Constitution.

If you want to help make sure that your fellow Americans have what they want and need, you pay for it. Keep your hands off my wallet.

 

[pal_of_poor]

While we argue additional tax cuts for the wealthy and the merits of "trickle down" economics a strange thing has happened. The standard of living for working americans has fallen. We make less money than we did a decade ago while the rich have gotten richer

Census: We’re poorer - THE WEEK

The Census Bureau’s annual report on income is out, and “there’s no good news” in it, said Felix Salmon in Reuters, unless you’re “the kind of person who worries about inflation.” Median household income has fallen 3.6 percent, from $52,153 in 2007 to $50,303 in 2008—a loss of “real money.” And 2.5 million more people are living in poverty, including 19 percent of kids under 18. That’s “unconscionable, in the richest country in the world.”

The “big news” from the Census report isn’t the drop in income since 2007, said David Leonhardt in The New York Times. It’s that we’re earning less than a decade ago—median household income in 1998 was $51,295, in today’s dollars. There hasn’t been such a lost decade in 40 years of Census tracking, and probably not since the 1930s. “What’s going on here?” Very slow growth, and the fact that “much of the bounty from our growth” has gone to the very rich.

I can't tell you the number of times I've heard rich people complain when the suggestion is made that the top few percent pay a little more, or for support of the inheritance tax. These are the only taxes the rich pay substantially more.

But rarely do we see the coverage of the rich waging a white-hot war on the poor. I've never seen such an organized attempt at the destruction of working people in my life, than the one that has happened in the last 40 years.

It really started happening during Nixon's years, as he sucked up to China. That was the beginning of our destruction. It accellerated during REagan's years, as he managed to get rid of fairness in the media, with his fairness doctrine. Ten or 20 republican think tanks opened, financed by some of the wealthiest people on the planet, and they made arguments for everything. The media managed an incredible feat. They convinced everyone they were liberal, by bringing on guest after guest, who threw that talking point out there, then they proceeded to demonize workers, and unions. Worse, they made up the most awful things about the most impoverished, calling all welfare recipients welfare queens. Not the powerful, who controlled everything were no longer suspect. It was the "welfare queens," and "union thugs" that were America's biggest woe.

The people, like the fucking lazy sheep they are, followed this right-wing media, both in calling it liberal, and at the same time, memorizing all of their little slogans about "unions wanting too much," and "I don't want to give my money to a "crack whore welfare queen." Well, who does? But in truth, they weren't the facts, but what matters, honesty in the media? Pshaw, forget that. We need to brainwash them against the poor, and make them worship the rich.

We see the stereotypes here each day. Many negatively affected by these policies, have yet to realize that they've sown the seeds of their own destruction, of their families dystopic futures. They are loathe to understand that they have brought us hurtling toward third world levels of poverty, of violence, of crime, of infirmity.

Way to go, class warriers, you've managed to help them destroy us. You've helped them keep down the minimum wage, thus knocking the foundation out from under us. You've cut the rope of the middle class, on which we used to climb up to better things. Good going, it was real smart of you. Thanks for destroying our carefully crafted good life, gained by decades, no really centuries of American workers trying to and achiving a better life, not too much, but enough. You've punched holes in our economic bucket, and there is scant water left, and it is leaking faster than any meager drops that come from other countries.

Better wake up! We're not long for the world, not far from being the same puddle drinking, garbage dump searchers as the countries you've been trying to get us to emulate. Even atop the heap, you don't get much of a view if all you are looking at is the cesspool of America, that you've created.

 

[alan1]

Where our wealth is right now

US Wealth Distribution

US Wealth Distribution

One way to ‘see’ the distribution of wealth in the U.S. is to imagine a group of 100 people who have a $100 between them. Evenly distributed each would have one dollar of wealth. Alas, that is far from the actual distribution. According to the most recent study, Currents and Undercurrents, by the Survey of Consumer Finance (Federal Reserve, Department of Treasury, 2006) wealth is distributed accordingly:

50 individuals at the bottom have a nickel. ($0.05 times 50 = $2.50)

The next 40 each have $0.70 of wealth (40 times $0.70 - $28.00).

The next 9 each have $4.00 of wealth (nine times $4.00 = $36.00)

The last richest individual has $33.40 (one time $33.40).


Read more: See the Distribution of Wealth in US (McCain, Obama, cost) - Politics and Other Controversies - City-Data Forum

Yeah, and here is some bar room economics for you,

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until on e day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men, the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that’s right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I did!'

'That's true!! shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

 

[pal_of_poor]

What is amazing about the census numbers is that in a collapsing economy, the rich somehow got richer. The rightwingnuts criticize the poor and somehow think that it is the poor who are getting hurt. It is every working American who has less. You pay more for homes, your childs education, energy, healthcare....meanwhile salaries remain stagnant and the rich get richer

Last I looked, houses cost less now than they did in 2007.
If you think you're paying more for energy now, wait until cap and trade kicks in. That's going to really raise your energy prices, and I have a feeling it's going to hurt the poor and middle class more than it's going to hurt the wealthy.

But you'll notice the things you really need the most, the commons if you like, are more expensive than ever.

And you've exemplified the real problem. While people have focused on this small upside, what you don't realize is, there are increasingly less people out there to buy the stuff. It's all crashing down around us, in case you've not noticed.

We're trying to pump up the tire of our economy again, and it's had so many holes punched into it with free-trade agreements, that each pump just results in the air coursing through it, and leaking right out to one of our many benefactor countries, in the form of our jobs. Only they do them so cheaply, that even they only benefit minimally.

Yes, we could've instead, sent our great system, our working economy out to the world. Instead, the rich chose to cripple anyone who didn't make more than a few hundred thousand a year, people who worked for a living. As it turns out, only the top few percent have gained. And that is to be expected, since they run everything, and since they are the talking heads that right-wingers are repeating their slogans from.

Seriously, when Rush limbauagh says "we" or "our" do you really think you are included? Perhaps in your mind you include yourself. That is the ploy at use here. They teach you to use these pronouns in management courses, for just this reason. People love to be included. But in truth, you are not, and you still reapeat their slogans right-wingers, and help them bring our destruction by agreeing with all their silly arguments, like Unions making too much, asking for too much, or being filled with thugs.

Wake up. The dystopia is knocking at the door, and you are about to let it in.

 

[pal_of_poor]

Where is the evidence that the rich got richer pray tell? Or was that just another bogus leftist assumption?

By the way the only times in history when the rich haven't getten richer - at least in comparison to the poor - are when no one has crap and we are all starving.

The “big news” from the Census report isn’t the drop in income since 2007, said David Leonhardt in The New York Times. It’s that we’re earning less than a decade ago—median household income in 1998 was $51,295, in today’s dollars. There hasn’t been such a lost decade in 40 years of Census tracking, and probably not since the 1930s. “What’s going on here?” Very slow growth, and the fact that “much of the bounty from our growth” has gone to the very rich.

Americans tightened their belts and the rich just got richer

All of the focus on taxes, and none on wages, makes Jack a dumb, and poorer boy. And just one tax, at that, the only tax the rich actually pay for of, the federal income tax.

The evidence is in the numbers, but the right-wingers don't cotten to no numbers, they just want an easy slogan to repeat, and they go on their merry ways, dupes for the rich and famous.

 

[pal_of_poor]

and they STILL have nothing better than "trickle down" to offer.
Seriously - is there any doubt in your mind why they lost????
The economy was in shambles and all they could do was to repeat the trickle down mantra ..... sort of like suggesting that brain cancer cures the common cold ........

Well that tricle up theory sure isn't working too well either now is it?? 9.7 % unemployment and rising, when Obama stated it would not go over 8% with his scare tactics of signing the no stimulus stimulus bill when no one had the chance to read it. 2 billion of that money going to the community organizors, ACORN, now there's a real job creator isn't it. Minors for prostitution????? Give me a break and get real.

The stimulus money went to state governments, NADA, NOTHING FOR the job creators, small business. It's not the government that drives the economy, it's the private sector that does. If the private sector isn't workin, nothing does. And it's not working now is it. This President has his cart before the horse and has yet to figure it out and you guys think he's sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo smart. He's the dumbest on economics that I have ever seen, either that or he's a commie.

Until we address the underpinnings of our problems, which are getting more protectionism, and stopping globalization, at least with extremely impoverished nations, then we'll not solve our problems.

I'm still saying Obama is too much Hoover, not enough FDR. Right wingers like to talk about "redistribution" being bad. In truth, our problem has been the maldistribution brought about by our media, and corporate hegemons, through globalization mostly. A few prices on things we don't have to have dropped. But rent, schooling, medical care, and utilities, and gas have skyrocketed, taking up the gap, and more.

It's time to patch some holes we've punched in our economy. Make sure we've got equivalent tariffs, high enough to make it just as cheap to manufacture products here, as they are in China, or Malaysia.

The sad thing is, this has all been a very calculated attack, toward the destruction of the workers in our economy. It hasn't just "happened" it has been their goal, to reduce our labor to next to nothing, and at the same time, inflate the coffers of the rich. And this hasn't just een happening over the last decade, this has been happening since the early seventies, when Nixon kissed and made up with China.

 

[The T]

Where our wealth is right now

US Wealth Distribution

US Wealth Distribution

One way to ‘see’ the distribution of wealth in the U.S. is to imagine a group of 100 people who have a $100 between them. Evenly distributed each would have one dollar of wealth. Alas, that is far from the actual distribution. According to the most recent study, Currents and Undercurrents, by the Survey of Consumer Finance (Federal Reserve, Department of Treasury, 2006) wealth is distributed accordingly:

50 individuals at the bottom have a nickel. ($0.05 times 50 = $2.50)

The next 40 each have $0.70 of wealth (40 times $0.70 - $28.00).

The next 9 each have $4.00 of wealth (nine times $4.00 = $36.00)

The last richest individual has $33.40 (one time $33.40).


Read more: See the Distribution of Wealth in US (McCain, Obama, cost) - Politics and Other Controversies - City-Data Forum

Yeah, and here is some bar room economics for you,

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until on e day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men, the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that’s right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I did!'

'That's true!! shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

Outstanding!

 

[pal_of_poor]

The OP is nothing more than distorted partisan drivel. Have you ever seen water trickle upward? That appears to be what you want to promote.

The economy is bad. The mess did not start with former President Bush, although he has dirty hands. Both major parties ( as a whole ) are to blame for the mess. And more succinctly, the employers who have been enabling out of control government are to blame as well.

It makes no logical or economic sense to parade around with the idea of taxing those who pay the most and produce the most more. The rich and others should not have to be paying to help wipe some other American's butt because they can't get their act together. Life is hard wear a helmet.

When the federal government takes money from me to pay for welfare services for citizens in other states, that is unacceptable. It is not congruent with the Constitution.

If you want to help make sure that your fellow Americans have what they want and need, you pay for it. Keep your hands off my wallet.

Repeat your slogans, and then go away thinking you've done the right thing.

Nothing is produced without labor. You make the mistake of thinking that labor had nothing to do with making the millionaires millions.

Try to find some life outside of the stuff that has been put in your brain, to continue the trend of punishing the people who make stuff, and sucking the phalanxes of those who sit up there and collect the money.

I used to do lot surveys back in the seventies. For about five dollars, I'd do a survey in an hour, sometimes less, of a lot that my boss got 50 to 100 dollars for. Without my labor, he'd have gotten nothing. I know my labor was not the only cost, but without it, and the rodman, he'd have nothing.

Somehow, you've to to wrest yourself from 30 years of wrong-headed dogma, that is now bringing on a new dystopia. No one will be untouched, don't fool yourself into thinking you won't be affected.

 

[pal_of_poor]

You can smell the Statism/Marxism/Socialism/Communism in the thread. It reeks pretty bad.

Your sloganism is the evidence of an empty mind.

A slogan will not cure all the ills of our country. In fact, slogans, and ditto-headed repeaters have been the downfall of our country. Being 4X the national tax collection for a year in debt at this point, I'm not sure we're going to get out of this hole for a long time. The mistake you make is in thinking this will not affect you, perhaps in the worst way.

People totally discount the fact that when we've got 18 percent unemployment, what a massive amount in taxes we are no longer collecting. That is an often dismissed, really unmentioned by the media, fact, that is very important in why we are in debt.

Not only are these people not buying things, and paying sales, gas, and other regressive taxes. Our government allowing all these jobs to leave our country, Ross's sucking sound exemplified, has cut our collection even more, further hurting our country.

The theory is they are going to start buying things, but the corporate overlords who've moved their corporations abroad, don't even pay their employees enough to buy the products they make. So, they are shipped back here, or to another country in Europe, and the employee in the third world country barely exists. And the rich men, who put all of this in action through campaign contributions to both parties, pushed globalization and free trade agreements, get richer, and richer, while Americans, and foreigners get poorer, and poorer. And the purchasing section, or demand section, gets smaller, and smaller.

People always forget the demand section, which is created by employment, and earnings, both of which have been slashed so much world wild, that we've really had negative side-effects from it. And as yet, this problem of our Congress's invention, has not been dealt with.

 

[rightwinger]

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

What they don't tell you is the real story. The tenth man is a partial owner of the bar and is making profit off the tab. He also receives kickbacks from the beer distributor so that while it appears he is paying $59 he is only paying $29. He then writes off the entire $100 tab as a business expense and ends up making money on the deal.

 

[alan1]

What is amazing about the census numbers is that in a collapsing economy, the rich somehow got richer. The rightwingnuts criticize the poor and somehow think that it is the poor who are getting hurt. It is every working American who has less. You pay more for homes, your childs education, energy, healthcare....meanwhile salaries remain stagnant and the rich get richer

Last I looked, houses cost less now than they did in 2007.
If you think you're paying more for energy now, wait until cap and trade kicks in. That's going to really raise your energy prices, and I have a feeling it's going to hurt the poor and middle class more than it's going to hurt the wealthy.

But you'll notice the things you really need the most, the commons if you like, are more expensive than ever.

And you've exemplified the real problem. While people have focused on this small upside, what you don't realize is, there are increasingly less people out there to buy the stuff. It's all crashing down around us, in case you've not noticed.

We're trying to pump up the tire of our economy again, and it's had so many holes punched into it with free-trade agreements, that each pump just results in the air coursing through it, and leaking right out to one of our many benefactor countries, in the form of our jobs. Only they do them so cheaply, that even they only benefit minimally.

Yes, we could've instead, sent our great system, our working economy out to the world. Instead, the rich chose to cripple anyone who didn't make more than a few hundred thousand a year, people who worked for a living. As it turns out, only the top few percent have gained. And that is to be expected, since they run everything, and since they are the talking heads that right-wingers are repeating their slogans from.

Seriously, when Rush limbauagh says "we" or "our" do you really think you are included? Perhaps in your mind you include yourself. That is the ploy at use here. They teach you to use these pronouns in management courses, for just this reason. People love to be included. But in truth, you are not, and you still reapeat their slogans right-wingers, and help them bring our destruction by agreeing with all their silly arguments, like Unions making too much, asking for too much, or being filled with thugs.

Wake up. The dystopia is knocking at the door, and you are about to let it in.

Sorry, I'm not buying your argument.
I am the product of a poor family. Mom and dad never had a large income, ever. They barely managed to keep enough food on the table for us 4 kids when I was young. They didn't put a single one of us through college because they couldn't afford it. Yet 3 of us ended up with college degrees that we earned while working and going to school at the same time. (Only 3 of us, because one of my sisters died at the young age of 26) Even though mom and dad never earned a lot in their lifetime, they did save and invest. Their net worth is well over a million dollars. Most of it accumulated in the last 20 years. They didn't do that because some "rich" person held them back or propelled them forward. Me, my sister and my brother are all solidly upper middle class. We didn't become that way because of some government program or because some "rich person" helped us out or payed more taxes. We did it because we worked at it. In the last 5 years I've more than doubled my income while working for somebody else. I'll double it again in the next 5 years. I crossed the line from being raised in a poor family to raising my children in a middle class family, that doesn't happen in too many countries, but it happens here in the USA. Funny how "the rich" didn't cripple me, isn't it?

P.S.
I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh.

 

[pal_of_poor]

Where our wealth is right now

US Wealth Distribution

US Wealth Distribution

One way to ‘see’ the distribution of wealth in the U.S. is to imagine a group of 100 people who have a $100 between them. Evenly distributed each would have one dollar of wealth. Alas, that is far from the actual distribution. According to the most recent study, Currents and Undercurrents, by the Survey of Consumer Finance (Federal Reserve, Department of Treasury, 2006) wealth is distributed accordingly:

50 individuals at the bottom have a nickel. ($0.05 times 50 = $2.50)

The next 40 each have $0.70 of wealth (40 times $0.70 - $28.00).

The next 9 each have $4.00 of wealth (nine times $4.00 = $36.00)

The last richest individual has $33.40 (one time $33.40).


Read more: See the Distribution of Wealth in US (McCain, Obama, cost) - Politics and Other Controversies - City-Data Forum

Yeah, and here is some bar room economics for you,

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until on e day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men, the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that’s right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I did!'

'That's true!! shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

What I find interesting about all of the little graphs posted by right-wingers, and the clever little charts is this. None of them represent the tax burden, no, not at all. They all talk about only the federal income tax. There is no inclusion of sales, gas, utility, property, toll-road taxes, or fees, or FICA taxes only on the first hundred thousand earned.

There is a good reason for that, of course. It is, the only tax that the truly wealthy pay more of as a percent of income, than the poor. All these people who are poor, end up paying all these other taxes, which disproportionately affect a person earning 20 grand a year. All these taxes to someone earning 300,000 dollars a year, are a pittance. They attack the one tax they pay more of, the one tax that properly assesses them greater responsibility for the much, much greater share of the commons that they use, to make their money.

A flat tax, or a national income tax, would not only hurt the economy terribly, taking money directly from the pockets of the poor and middle class. But they would finally achieve a status where the filthy richest of us, will actually pay less in taxes than a burger flipper in a fast-food restaurant.

And of these facts, right-wingers stay blissfully unaware. The next time someone bloviates around you, say, hey, how about we get rid of all regressive taxes, that way we can all make some headway. At least drop the stupid cap, so millionaire earners will at last pay as much as the middle, and upper middle class, for FICA/SS taxes. That is the least they could do.

 

[rightwinger]

A flat tax, or a national income tax, would not only hurt the economy terribly, taking money directly from the pockets of the poor and middle class. But they would finally achieve a status where the filthy richest of us, will actually pay less in taxes than a burger flipper in a fast-food restaurant.

I would support a flat tax if ALL tax exemptions are eliminated. Make the rich pay a flat tax on EVERY dollar they take in and watch them squeal