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Please, do you really believe it when a totalitarian state claims they got over 90% of a vote? Did you miss all the media coverage about Ukrainian citizens being beaten in the streets or found floating in rivers before the sham election? Many fled as soon as the Russians showed up. These are some of the reasons the international community rejected the election. I am very certain I have better resources for accurate information than you assume.Your first mistake is believing anything from the international community, which would explain your lack of understanding.I disagree with you on whether Russia invaded Crimea and whether Crimea was legally transferred to Russia. The international community, including the UN disagrees with you also. The Tatars, who have been there longer than both the Russians and Ukrainians disagree with you too. Even the Chinese refused to vote on the legitimacy of the sham election in Crimea. Many of the Crimean's that wanted to be annexed to Russia are already having buyers remorse. They are now suffering the second invasion. This one is not military, it is economic. The country is being overrun by "Moscow" carpetbaggers who are pushing many of the ethnic Russians who supported the annexation, to the side. By the way, Putin has admitted Russian troops and mercenaries participated in the take over of Crimea. The "Green" ,men running around armed with Russian weapons and armored vehicles, wearing Russian uniforms with the insignia's removed were Russian. The first mercenaries to take over the Ukrainian border post were member of a huge Russian so called motorcycle club or gang called the Wolves. They showed up well armed and backed up by Russian troops with tanks.It means something when comparing it to entering nations without invitation. One can agree or disagree with your comment, it in no way validates the way Russia enters neighboring nations by force of arms.Invitation means nothing.Everywhere we have the bases you are talking about. The NATO countries are not forced to join. They ask to join. When they join they invite NATO facilities. Often they have restrictions about the size and uses of the facilities. Most recently the Baltic countries have invited US Air Force facilities with Air Force aircraft to operate in their territories as a security measure to counter Russian threats.
Are you aware of a nation that has a US military base that is there without agreement with the host country?
The US gov's constant military interventions and provocations will lead to war, which is exactly what they appear to want in Ukraine.
It is none of our business what goes on in E. Europe and interventions leading to war cause terrible death and suffering. One would think all Americans would know this after decades of war and failure.
Russia has not invaded Ukraine...and the Crimean's were very happy to be annexed by Russia.
I suppose you think the USA does NOT enter nations by the force of arms.
I guess you do not believe in democracy, but instead chose to believe whatever the global elite tell you.
March 16 marks one year since the Crimean peninsula seceded from Ukraine and became a part of Russia after more than 96 percent of local voters supported the move in a referendum. The West refused to recognize Crimea’s reunification with Russia claiming it violated Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, and introduced several waves of sanctions targeting the country’s economy and certain individuals.
Disputed Crimea Referendum Sees 96.8 Percent Vote to Join Russia - NBC News
What Russophobes never ever mention is that the Crimean referendum was found to be in compliance with international standards. Ironically, some of the observers were from the U.S......
International Observers Find Crimean Referendum Strongly and Voluntarily Supported by the Crimean People - Yahoo Finance
What Russophobes never ever mention is that the Crimean referendum was found to be in compliance with international standards. Ironically, some of the observers were from the U.S......
International Observers Find Crimean Referendum Strongly and Voluntarily Supported by the Crimean People - Yahoo Finance
Crimea is part of the Ukraine. There was a time that STATEN ISLAND wanted to secede from New York State-----New York State said "no"
What Russophobes never ever mention is that the Crimean referendum was found to be in compliance with international standards. Ironically, some of the observers were from the U.S......
International Observers Find Crimean Referendum Strongly and Voluntarily Supported by the Crimean People - Yahoo Finance
Crimea is part of the Ukraine. There was a time that STATEN ISLAND wanted to secede from New York State-----New York State said "no"
Too bad for Staten Island............
Your link is nothing more than a press release by an organization called The Russian Community of Crimea. The observers don't represent any international group or entity. The observers were all hand picked by the Russian Community of Crimea. They seemed to have had no problem with seeing armed men with masks covering their faces, dressed in Russian uniforms at the polling places.What Russophobes never ever mention is that the Crimean referendum was found to be in compliance with international standards. Ironically, some of the observers were from the U.S......
International Observers Find Crimean Referendum Strongly and Voluntarily Supported by the Crimean People - Yahoo Finance
Even your beloved international community knows Crimea wanted to leave Ukraine and join Russia. The vote clearly reflects this.Please, do you really believe it when a totalitarian state claims they got over 90% of a vote? Did you miss all the media coverage about Ukrainian citizens being beaten in the streets or found floating in rivers before the sham election? Many fled as soon as the Russians showed up. These are some of the reasons the international community rejected the election. I am very certain I have better resources for accurate information than you assume.Your first mistake is believing anything from the international community, which would explain your lack of understanding.I disagree with you on whether Russia invaded Crimea and whether Crimea was legally transferred to Russia. The international community, including the UN disagrees with you also. The Tatars, who have been there longer than both the Russians and Ukrainians disagree with you too. Even the Chinese refused to vote on the legitimacy of the sham election in Crimea. Many of the Crimean's that wanted to be annexed to Russia are already having buyers remorse. They are now suffering the second invasion. This one is not military, it is economic. The country is being overrun by "Moscow" carpetbaggers who are pushing many of the ethnic Russians who supported the annexation, to the side. By the way, Putin has admitted Russian troops and mercenaries participated in the take over of Crimea. The "Green" ,men running around armed with Russian weapons and armored vehicles, wearing Russian uniforms with the insignia's removed were Russian. The first mercenaries to take over the Ukrainian border post were member of a huge Russian so called motorcycle club or gang called the Wolves. They showed up well armed and backed up by Russian troops with tanks.It means something when comparing it to entering nations without invitation. One can agree or disagree with your comment, it in no way validates the way Russia enters neighboring nations by force of arms.Invitation means nothing.
The US gov's constant military interventions and provocations will lead to war, which is exactly what they appear to want in Ukraine.
It is none of our business what goes on in E. Europe and interventions leading to war cause terrible death and suffering. One would think all Americans would know this after decades of war and failure.
Russia has not invaded Ukraine...and the Crimean's were very happy to be annexed by Russia.
I suppose you think the USA does NOT enter nations by the force of arms.
I guess you do not believe in democracy, but instead chose to believe whatever the global elite tell you.
March 16 marks one year since the Crimean peninsula seceded from Ukraine and became a part of Russia after more than 96 percent of local voters supported the move in a referendum. The West refused to recognize Crimea’s reunification with Russia claiming it violated Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, and introduced several waves of sanctions targeting the country’s economy and certain individuals.
Disputed Crimea Referendum Sees 96.8 Percent Vote to Join Russia - NBC News
It was an illegal election and not recognized. Populations don't get to have snap elections to stay or leave a sovereign nation. China refused to vote the election as being legitimate because they firmly believe that referendums can not be used as conduits for secession unless the sovereign agrees to the referendum, just like all the other nations in the world.Even your beloved international community knows Crimea wanted to leave Ukraine and join Russia. The vote clearly reflects this.Please, do you really believe it when a totalitarian state claims they got over 90% of a vote? Did you miss all the media coverage about Ukrainian citizens being beaten in the streets or found floating in rivers before the sham election? Many fled as soon as the Russians showed up. These are some of the reasons the international community rejected the election. I am very certain I have better resources for accurate information than you assume.Your first mistake is believing anything from the international community, which would explain your lack of understanding.I disagree with you on whether Russia invaded Crimea and whether Crimea was legally transferred to Russia. The international community, including the UN disagrees with you also. The Tatars, who have been there longer than both the Russians and Ukrainians disagree with you too. Even the Chinese refused to vote on the legitimacy of the sham election in Crimea. Many of the Crimean's that wanted to be annexed to Russia are already having buyers remorse. They are now suffering the second invasion. This one is not military, it is economic. The country is being overrun by "Moscow" carpetbaggers who are pushing many of the ethnic Russians who supported the annexation, to the side. By the way, Putin has admitted Russian troops and mercenaries participated in the take over of Crimea. The "Green" ,men running around armed with Russian weapons and armored vehicles, wearing Russian uniforms with the insignia's removed were Russian. The first mercenaries to take over the Ukrainian border post were member of a huge Russian so called motorcycle club or gang called the Wolves. They showed up well armed and backed up by Russian troops with tanks.It means something when comparing it to entering nations without invitation. One can agree or disagree with your comment, it in no way validates the way Russia enters neighboring nations by force of arms.
Russia has not invaded Ukraine...and the Crimean's were very happy to be annexed by Russia.
I suppose you think the USA does NOT enter nations by the force of arms.
I guess you do not believe in democracy, but instead chose to believe whatever the global elite tell you.
March 16 marks one year since the Crimean peninsula seceded from Ukraine and became a part of Russia after more than 96 percent of local voters supported the move in a referendum. The West refused to recognize Crimea’s reunification with Russia claiming it violated Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, and introduced several waves of sanctions targeting the country’s economy and certain individuals.
Disputed Crimea Referendum Sees 96.8 Percent Vote to Join Russia - NBC News
Those beaten and shot in the streets where done so primarily by the Nazis in the Kiev government. Just as they shot down the Malaysian jet liner in a false flag effort to implicate Russia, they are doing all they can to implicate Russia for their heinous acts. Have you failed to notice that the US Gov has not produced ANY evidence that Russia had anything to do with the shoot down? Yet they continue to claim it as does their lackeys in the western press.
Just as they shot down the Malaysian jet liner in a false flag effort to implicate Russia, they are doing all they can to implicate Russia for their heinous acts. Have you failed to notice that the US Gov has not produced ANY evidence that Russia had anything to do with the shoot down?
What?Just as they shot down the Malaysian jet liner in a false flag effort to implicate Russia, they are doing all they can to implicate Russia for their heinous acts. Have you failed to notice that the US Gov has not produced ANY evidence that Russia had anything to do with the shoot down?
Why should the US government produce any evidence? It is the Dutchmen who are leading the investigation.
And what evidence has the Russian government offered? A tale of the attack bomber Su-25? Do you see any difference between an attack bomber and a fighter jet?
Flight MH-17 downing Ukrainian Su-25 attack plane could not down the Malaysian Boeing - propaganda terrorism Boeing 777 Malaysia Airlines Buk Russian Terrorists Flight MH-17 downing Vladimir Babak 11.03.15 14 09 News EN.Censor.net
What?
When the US gov makes damning accusations, they need to show proof. Since they have not...proves they are liars.
That is quite a story.It was an illegal election and not recognized. Populations don't get to have snap elections to stay or leave a sovereign nation. China refused to vote the election as being legitimate because they firmly believe that referendums can not be used as conduits for secession unless the sovereign agrees to the referendum, just like all the other nations in the world.Even your beloved international community knows Crimea wanted to leave Ukraine and join Russia. The vote clearly reflects this.Please, do you really believe it when a totalitarian state claims they got over 90% of a vote? Did you miss all the media coverage about Ukrainian citizens being beaten in the streets or found floating in rivers before the sham election? Many fled as soon as the Russians showed up. These are some of the reasons the international community rejected the election. I am very certain I have better resources for accurate information than you assume.Your first mistake is believing anything from the international community, which would explain your lack of understanding.I disagree with you on whether Russia invaded Crimea and whether Crimea was legally transferred to Russia. The international community, including the UN disagrees with you also. The Tatars, who have been there longer than both the Russians and Ukrainians disagree with you too. Even the Chinese refused to vote on the legitimacy of the sham election in Crimea. Many of the Crimean's that wanted to be annexed to Russia are already having buyers remorse. They are now suffering the second invasion. This one is not military, it is economic. The country is being overrun by "Moscow" carpetbaggers who are pushing many of the ethnic Russians who supported the annexation, to the side. By the way, Putin has admitted Russian troops and mercenaries participated in the take over of Crimea. The "Green" ,men running around armed with Russian weapons and armored vehicles, wearing Russian uniforms with the insignia's removed were Russian. The first mercenaries to take over the Ukrainian border post were member of a huge Russian so called motorcycle club or gang called the Wolves. They showed up well armed and backed up by Russian troops with tanks.Russia has not invaded Ukraine...and the Crimean's were very happy to be annexed by Russia.
I suppose you think the USA does NOT enter nations by the force of arms.
I guess you do not believe in democracy, but instead chose to believe whatever the global elite tell you.
March 16 marks one year since the Crimean peninsula seceded from Ukraine and became a part of Russia after more than 96 percent of local voters supported the move in a referendum. The West refused to recognize Crimea’s reunification with Russia claiming it violated Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, and introduced several waves of sanctions targeting the country’s economy and certain individuals.
Disputed Crimea Referendum Sees 96.8 Percent Vote to Join Russia - NBC News
Those beaten and shot in the streets where done so primarily by the Nazis in the Kiev government. Just as they shot down the Malaysian jet liner in a false flag effort to implicate Russia, they are doing all they can to implicate Russia for their heinous acts. Have you failed to notice that the US Gov has not produced ANY evidence that Russia had anything to do with the shoot down? Yet they continue to claim it as does their lackeys in the western press.
The shootings and beatings in the street I referenced happened in Crimea and was widely covered by the press, as were the bodies found in the rivers. Strange men showed up with guns and people in Crimea who supported Ukraine began to disappear and bodies were found floating in rivers. When marches of support occurred carrying Ukraine flags the marchers were attacked and beaten. The Russian side may have won the election without that criminal behavior, but they didn't win the election without the criminal behavior. They did not allow a free and fair election.
Lots of evidence has been shown that prove the people killed during the Maiden protest were killed by the ousted President who is currently a fugitive hiding in Russia. The so called Nazi's have never been in control of the Kyiv government and all you are doing is echoing Moscow propaganda. There is plenty of proof of the separatist shooting down the airliner. The Putin supporters just ignore it, deny it or pretend it doesn't exist.
The US is following proper legal protocol and not injecting itself into ongoing investigations by entities with the legal task to make such investigations and determinations. The US references it's charges of guilt of the Russian supplied and supported separatist by referring to sources with the legal responsibility of the investigations. Like any criminal prosecution, it is the prosecutors decision as to what evidence is made public.What?Just as they shot down the Malaysian jet liner in a false flag effort to implicate Russia, they are doing all they can to implicate Russia for their heinous acts. Have you failed to notice that the US Gov has not produced ANY evidence that Russia had anything to do with the shoot down?
Why should the US government produce any evidence? It is the Dutchmen who are leading the investigation.
And what evidence has the Russian government offered? A tale of the attack bomber Su-25? Do you see any difference between an attack bomber and a fighter jet?
Flight MH-17 downing Ukrainian Su-25 attack plane could not down the Malaysian Boeing - propaganda terrorism Boeing 777 Malaysia Airlines Buk Russian Terrorists Flight MH-17 downing Vladimir Babak 11.03.15 14 09 News EN.Censor.net
When the US gov makes damning accusations, they need to show proof. Since they have not...proves they are liars.
First, one must realize when a POTUS, Sec of State, and others in the US Gov accuse Russia of shooting down a civilian airliner without proof, something is going on and it can't be good. Do you think it appropriate to make accusations without proof? All the US Gov has to do is prove it. Since it is spying on everyone, why can't it show proof?What?
When the US gov makes damning accusations, they need to show proof. Since they have not...proves they are liars.
Yes, maybe it would be better if they waited until a final report of the Dutch-led team. But I have a couple of questions.
First. What will you say if the conclusions of the investigators match with the American version?
Second. Do you think the Russian version is reliable? Why? Don’t you think it is strange that the Ukrainians scrambled an attack bomber to down the plane, rather than a fighter jet?
Just as they shot down the Malaysian jet liner in a false flag effort to implicate Russia, they are doing all they can to implicate Russia for their heinous acts. Have you failed to notice that the US Gov has not produced ANY evidence that Russia had anything to do with the shoot down?
Why should the US government produce any evidence? It is the Dutchmen who are leading the investigation.
And what evidence has the Russian government offered? A tale of the attack bomber Su-25? Do you see any difference between an attack bomber and a fighter jet?
The US is following proper legal protocol and not injecting itself into ongoing investigations by entities with the legal task to make such investigations and determinations. The US references it's charges of guilt of the Russian supplied and supported separatist by referring to sources with the legal responsibility of the investigations. Like any criminal prosecution, it is the prosecutors decision as to what evidence is made public.
There is an abundance of evidence available and the evidence has been available from the earliest days to new evidence released and reported today, a fragment from a Russian BUK found at the crash site.
Recordings of separatist discussing the shot down when they believed it was a military aircraft.
interpretermag.com/evidence-review-who-shot-down-mh17/
Following/TRACKING the Russian BUK from Russia to Ukraine and back to Russia with photo evidence. Few people even know this evidence exist.
bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2014/11/08/origin-of-the-separatists-buk-a-bellingcat-investigation/
The very latest, a BUK fragment identified.
businessinsider.com/r-fragment-from-mh17-crash-site-supports-missile-theory-dutch-tv-2015-3
It was not my intention to post a link, just a statement of fact.Your Lew Rockwell essay does not debunk any of the evidence I posted. It doesn't even address the charges and factual data including in the links I provided. Doesn't even mention them. Your link is a commentary opinion essay that uses the MH17 as a conduit and lead in to wide ranging conspiracy theories.
You claimed that your link debunked the evidence of Russian separatist and Russian involvement in the shoot down of MH 17 over Ukraine. It did no such thing and the article by Roseff from Rockwell is a commentary, not a statement of fact. Rosseff is a well known libertarian socialist who promotes panarchism and contributes essays for libertarian publications. He is also popular in the Russian propaganda network.He is an economics writer, so you claim that he has a history of covering the Russian invasion of Ukraine is false.It was not my intention to post a link, just a statement of fact.Your Lew Rockwell essay does not debunk any of the evidence I posted. It doesn't even address the charges and factual data including in the links I provided. Doesn't even mention them. Your link is a commentary opinion essay that uses the MH17 as a conduit and lead in to wide ranging conspiracy theories.
This from Dr, Michael S Rozeff, who has reported extensively on Ukraine:
All sorts of officials accuse Russia of aggression in Ukraine. Is this true? It is not. It is fiction. It is a big lie. It is a specious claim, an absurd claim, a ridiculous claim, an unreal claim. Russia and Russians have been involved in certain respects in Ukraine, but by no sensible stretch of the imagination can such involvements be termed aggression. If there were an actual war aggression, it could not be hidden because the scope of a typical war aggression is very large. The photographic evidence for it would be overwhelming. No such evidence has been provided by Russia’s accusers. Even more importantly, it would have to be shown that the attack was an unprovoked offensive attack, and not a defensive operation. This too has not been proven by Russia’s accusers.
My concern here is the fiction being propagated. It borders on madness. It plays into the hands of the worst kinds of warmongers. It blinds everyone concerned. It is irrational. It establishes an aura of public lies and myths that results in great mischief and worse. It is producing awful results that can become far worse. The lie happens to revolve around demonizing Russia but my purpose is not to choose sides in the Ukrainian-Russian problems but to keep the U.S. out of the matter. It is to defang the lie.
You claimed that your link debunked the evidence of Russian separatist and Russian involvement in the shoot down of MH 17 over Ukraine. It did no such thing and the article by Roseff from Rockwell is a commentary, not a statement of fact. Rosseff is a well known libertarian socialist who promotes panarchism and contributes essays for libertarian publications. He is also popular in the Russian propaganda network.He is an economics writer, so you claim that he has a history of covering the Russian invasion of Ukraine is false.It was not my intention to post a link, just a statement of fact.Your Lew Rockwell essay does not debunk any of the evidence I posted. It doesn't even address the charges and factual data including in the links I provided. Doesn't even mention them. Your link is a commentary opinion essay that uses the MH17 as a conduit and lead in to wide ranging conspiracy theories.
This from Dr, Michael S Rozeff, who has reported extensively on Ukraine:
All sorts of officials accuse Russia of aggression in Ukraine. Is this true? It is not. It is fiction. It is a big lie. It is a specious claim, an absurd claim, a ridiculous claim, an unreal claim. Russia and Russians have been involved in certain respects in Ukraine, but by no sensible stretch of the imagination can such involvements be termed aggression. If there were an actual war aggression, it could not be hidden because the scope of a typical war aggression is very large. The photographic evidence for it would be overwhelming. No such evidence has been provided by Russia’s accusers. Even more importantly, it would have to be shown that the attack was an unprovoked offensive attack, and not a defensive operation. This too has not been proven by Russia’s accusers.
My concern here is the fiction being propagated. It borders on madness. It plays into the hands of the worst kinds of warmongers. It blinds everyone concerned. It is irrational. It establishes an aura of public lies and myths that results in great mischief and worse. It is producing awful results that can become far worse. The lie happens to revolve around demonizing Russia but my purpose is not to choose sides in the Ukrainian-Russian problems but to keep the U.S. out of the matter. It is to defang the lie.
Here is another sample of his work.
russia-insider.com/en/2015/02/14/3490
I have posted clear evidence that is used by those who accuse Russia of invading Ukraine and being responsible for the shoot down of MH 17. Those who choose to cheer for Putin and spew hate and false accusations at the US, NATO, Ukraine and others claim the accusations made by these entities are false, but are unable to disprove the evidence. Sorry, but I view your attempt at "debunking" the evidence I provided as an old trick. List links that are meaningless to the topic and do so with the knowledge that most people will not check out the link. They will just read the comment about debunking and assume the link must do so. Very dishonest in my opinion.
There has been no debunking of the evidence in the links I provided that are in post #34 on this page and just a few post back from this one.
