Ukraine war

[laferia52]

So what is going on the Ukraine War. Have the Abrams tanks been a game changer. have the Abrams given the Ukrainian arm forces the edge?

 

[Oddball]

The Ukes are losing, and nearly all the Panthers Germany gave them are destroyed.

Giving combined arms weapons to people who neither understand nor use the battle strategy is a complete waste.

 

[Foxfyre]

Nobody really knows. The Ukrainians say the number of their dead is a 'state secret' and they won't reveal the numbers. Maybe they don't know the numbers?

From the get go this was a conflict between two countries that have been at the very top of Europe's most corrupt nations list for a very long time now.

According to the BBC in August, the U.S. puts the number of Ukrainian dead at between 70,000 and 120,000. Their entire army was only roughly half a million. If accurate, that is a staggering number.

Since nobody, but nobody has been willing to attack Russia, this proxy war does not seem to be going anywhere other than dozens of the young dying every day. Had Zelensky just handed over the Ukraine to Putin or told him he would not join NATO, the casualties would likely have been minimal or maybe none.

What is the moral choice? Give in to Russian tyranny? Or fight an unwinnable war that is killing tens of thousands of young soldiers and many civilians?

Not an easy call.

'Dying by the dozens every day' - Ukraine losses climb

Ukraine will not disclose its death count, but the BBC’s Quentin Sommerville witnesses the mounting toll.

www.bbc.com

 

[jotathought]

So what is going on the Ukraine War. Have the Abrams tanks been a game changer. have the Abrams given the Ukrainian arm forces the edge?

Biden's proxy war is about the same spot it was when it started 2 years ago .. except there are tens of thousands of dead Ukrainian people, and Biden is already shifting his strategy for territorial concessions to Russia. Even MSNBC's Zeeshan Aleem
(formerly with Huff Post and VOX) is sharing his opinion, especially as things continue to heat up in the Middle East.

 

[Bleipriester]

So what is going on the Ukraine War. Have the Abrams tanks been a game changer. have the Abrams given the Ukrainian arm forces the edge?

The tanks are only used for special operations. If used regularly they are only targets, the Ukrainians say. They lack the comprehensive equipment needed to protect them from air raids.

 

[ESay]

Since nobody, but nobody has been willing to attack Russia, this proxy war does not seem to be going anywhere other than dozens of the young dying every day. Had Zelensky just handed over the Ukraine to Putin or told him he would not join NATO, the casualties would likely have been minimal or maybe none

Not once have I heard that Zelensky was ready to sign a deal with Russia in April 2022. And it was the UK and US governments that persuaded him not to do so.

What is the moral choice? Give in to Russian tyranny? Or fight an unwinnable war that is killing tens of thousands of young soldiers and many civilians

There was a period in these last two years when the war might have been stopped more or less in Ukraine's favor.

 

[luiza]

So what is going on the Ukraine War. Have the Abrams tanks been a game changer. have the Abrams given the Ukrainian arm forces the edge?

Bordering on the useless .
Constantly breaking down and leave a heat signature which might as well be a placard saying ," Shoot me here . Now ."

They are so useless that they are no longer being used as tanks . Instead they are stationary and used as medium distance artillery . Am no longer sure if there are any remaining which work in any capacity

 

[alang1216]

So what is going on the Ukraine War. Have the Abrams tanks been a game changer. have the Abrams given the Ukrainian arm forces the edge?

It has become a war of attrition and question is, will Russia run out of equipment before the Ukrainians run out of soldiers. There can't be peace until Putin is out of office.

 

[ColonelAngus]

It has become a war of attrition and question is, will Russia run out of equipment before the Ukrainians run out of soldiers. There can't be peace until Putin is out of office.

Sure there can. There was a peace deal 2 years ago in Turkey. Both Zelensky and Putin agreed. It was the US who stepped in to continue the war. What are you talking about?

 

[Foxfyre]

Not once have I heard that Zelensky was ready to sign a deal with Russia in April 2022. And it was the UK and US governments that persuaded him not to do so.


There was a period in these last two years when the war might have been stopped more or less in Ukraine's favor.

Probably true. And in November 2023 Zelensky said neither the EU nor US was pressuring him to negotiate with Putin then. I just observe all those dead bodies piling up in a war that may or may not accomplish anything for the Ukraine.

President Trump was determined to see that the USA would not engage in any of those eternal wars again. But the war grinds on and the U.S. will almost certainly continue to assume more and more of the cost of it until we are essentially doing pretty much all of it.

 

[Silver Cat]

Not once have I heard that Zelensky was ready to sign a deal with Russia in April 2022. And it was the UK and US governments that persuaded him not to do so.


There was a period in these last two years when the war might have been stopped more or less in Ukraine's favor.

It highly depends on your definition of the term "Ukraine's favor". As for me, equal rights to everyone (including ethnic Russians and laymen of Ukrainian Orthodox Church), recognition of the new borders and neutral status is the best possible end of war for Ukrainian people (but definitely worst for the Kievan Junta). And, what is more important, the Russians won't stop until they achieved those goals. Denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status.

 

[Silver Cat]

It has become a war of attrition and question is, will Russia run out of equipment before the Ukrainians run out of soldiers. There can't be peace until Putin is out of office.

In the matter of fact, until Putin or Biden is out of office. And latter possibility is much more likely. Putin is going to win election in March and then Biden is going to lose election in November. And then the war is finished.

 

[alang1216]

Sure there can. There was a peace deal 2 years ago in Turkey. Both Zelensky and Putin agreed. It was the US who stepped in to continue the war. What are you talking about?

I see you are loyally parroting Putin's propaganda, but that may not be the most accurate account of events:

Ukrainian lead negotiator Davyd Arakhamia stated in an interview on 24 November 2023 that the Russian delegation had promised Ukraine peace for refusing to join NATO, but that the Ukrainian delegation had not believed them.[70] Arakhamia also refuted Putin's claim that Ukraine had signed any agreement in Turkey because the delegation did not even have the legal right to sign anything - this could only have happened if a meeting between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Putin took place.[70] Arakhamia also claimed that Russian delegation had only cared about Ukraine's neutral status and that the other Russian demands had been "cosmetic and political "seasoning" about denazification, the Russian-speaking population and blah blah blah."[70]​

 

[alang1216]

In the matter of fact, until Putin or Biden is out of office. And latter possibility is much more likely. Putin is going to win election in March and then Biden is going to lose election in November. And then the war is finished.

You may be right but it would be a tragedy for Ukraine AND the West.

 

[ESay]

Probably true. And in November 2023 Zelensky said neither the EU nor US was pressuring him to negotiate with Putin then. I just observe all those dead bodies piling up in a war that may or may not accomplish anything for the Ukraine.

President Trump was determined to see that the USA would not engage in any of those eternal wars again. But the war grinds on and the U.S. will almost certainly continue to assume more and more of the cost of it until we are essentially doing pretty much all of it.

The war in Ukraine, at least in the current form, has no sense at all since November 2022. And that period was the best to settle this war in at least a form of a 'draw'. But the West and Kiev decided instead to stake on a big counter-offensive, that eventually failed. And it just couldn't end in some other way.

Needles to say, that now Ukraine's position in this war is much worse that it was a year ago. And there is no certainty at all what will be in a week or in a month or in several months.

I certainly hope that the US will see a new administration this year (or more correctly, the next year). I don't know, maybe it will be better or worse, who knows. But the current one is too incompetent.

 

[ESay]

It highly depends on your definition of the term "Ukraine's favor". As for me, equal rights to everyone (including ethnic Russians and laymen of Ukrainian Orthodox Church), recognition of the new borders and neutral status is the best possible end of war for Ukrainian people (but definitely worst for the Kievan Junta). And, what is more important, the Russians won't stop until they achieved those goals. Denazification, demilitarisation and neutral status.

Despite my contempt to your country and the 'Russian world', and personal rejection of so called 'equal rights' and neutral status, I should admit that your wishes may come true, indeed.

 

[Silver Cat]

You may be right but it would be a tragedy for Ukraine AND the West.

It definitely won't be tragedy for at least 90% of Ukrainians. Actually, most of them will be happy. It won't be tragedy for Europe and the USA because it will save them a lot of money. It will be tragedy for Zelenskiy, and, may be, it will be tragedy for Biden.

 

[alang1216]

It definitely won't be tragedy for at least 90% of Ukrainians. Actually, most of them will be happy.

As my kids used to say, "90% of all statistics are made up". Yours certainly seems to qualify. If that is not true, where did that number come from?

It won't be tragedy for Europe and the USA because it will save them a lot of money. It will be tragedy for Zelenskiy, and, may be, it will be tragedy for Biden.

Short tern, you're certainly right. Longer term, I see Putin flexing his muscles to recoup his losses and his image. I wouldn't want to live in any country bordering Russia.

 

[Zebra]

how long do you think ukraine will be able to fight?

 

[Silver Cat]

As my kids used to say, "90% of all statistics are made up". Yours certainly seems to qualify. If that is not true, where did that number come from?

90% of any society are more or less apolitical. They don't really care who is in charge - Trump, Biden, Putin, Zelenskiy or whoever else. They do care about risk of being killed or about abusing and discrimination (and Russian don't discriminate ethnic Ukrainians). Ukrainians have been living in Russia for centuries. Actually, even Zelenskiy himself was born in the USSR.

Short tern, you're certainly right. Longer term, I see Putin flexing his muscles to recoup his losses and his image. I wouldn't want to live in any country bordering Russia.

It's not about image. Russian State media can make any. The question is not about discrimination of Russians and/or being part of NATO military infrastructure. Their next openly declared goals are to return military infrastructure of NATO to the borders of 1997, and withdrawal of American nukes from Europe. They will try to make it politicaly first, but then, yes, they will try some hybrid warfare (backed by regular forces, of course). Saams' rebellion in Finland, disturbance in Baltic states, military coup in Italy, civil war in Germany, Irish terrorism in the Great Britain, etc...