Ukraine in NATO?!

[jwoodie]

Can we at last acknowledge that having Ukraine join NATO was a bad idea? (Strategically, this is on par with Russia placing missiles in Cuba.) If we really thought Russia was so weak as to not oppose this idea, why didn't NATO just move into Ukraine and take over its defense? One explanation for pushing Ukraine to join NATO is that hatred towards Russia was ginned up in response to Russia's alleged interference in the 2016 US Presidential election. Do you have another explanation for why we wanted Ukraine to join NATO?

 

[rightwinger]

Putin has made it clear that admitting Ukraine to NATO is a necessity

Just ask Sweden and Finland who were formerly neutral

 

[rightwinger]

Do you have another explanation for why we wanted Ukraine to join NATO?

Putin’s unprovoked invasion

 

[Rambunctious]

Only if you crave a nuclear war...

 

[kyzr]

Only if you crave a nuclear war...

Bullshit. Admitting Ukraine into NATO is the quickest and cheapest off-ramp I see.

Russia and Ukraine both want the war to stop, but there is no end unless NATO steps in.

 

[Rambunctious]

Only if you crave a nuclear war...

Bullshit. Admitting Ukraine into NATO is the quickest and cheapest off-ramp I see.

Russia and Ukraine both want the war to stop, but there is no end unless NATO steps in.

I think it would be a huge mistake and so do a lot of people that's why it wasn't done years ago...

 

[Oddball]

no

 

[bendog]

The problem isn't so much nato. Russia invaded despite their not being Western arms in Ukraine, not to mention boots on ground. For Putin it's a loss unless Ukraine ceases to exist. Politically, Zelensky may not be able to walk away from the two most eastern oblasts and crimea, but they aren't much use to Ukraine's economy anyway. So, if Nato made a treaty of sorts to guarantee troops unless Putin stays on the East side of Dnieper, Putin couldn't live with that.

 

[luiza]

Ukraine has as much chance of entering NATO as Wrong Pinger has of winning anything in Paris this summer .

This time next year -- or before -- there will be nothing left of Ukraine and with luck it will be a Russia controlled territory for repentant Israeli people, with tourists on the south coast and in its capital Volodyanople , replacing Nazi Kyiv .

 

[kyzr]

Only if you crave a nuclear war...

I think it would be a huge mistake and so do a lot of people that's why it wasn't done years ago...

1. So what is the right answer? Give Putin Ukraine so he has even more revenue to develop weapons with.
Which country would be next?

2. A nuclear war has no winners. Putin should be smart enough to know that. If he isn't his generals are. Its really not a threat, MAD has worked because it works.

 

[rightwinger]

The problem isn't so much nato. Russia invaded despite their not being Western arms in Ukraine, not to mention boots on ground. For Putin it's a loss unless Ukraine ceases to exist. Politically, Zelensky may not be able to walk away from the two most eastern oblasts and crimea, but they aren't much use to Ukraine's economy anyway. So, if Nato made a treaty of sorts to guarantee troops unless Putin stays on the East side of Dnieper, Putin couldn't live with that.

Putin is in a Lose/Lose situation

 

[kyzr]

The problem isn't so much nato. Russia invaded despite their not being Western arms in Ukraine, not to mention boots on ground. For Putin it's a loss unless Ukraine ceases to exist. Politically, Zelensky may not be able to walk away from the two most eastern oblasts and crimea, but they aren't much use to Ukraine's economy anyway. So, if Nato made a treaty of sorts to guarantee troops unless Putin stays on the East side of Dnieper, Putin couldn't live with that.

How about the 2014 boundaries and Putin keeps Crimea, which was Russia's before Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine?
Ukraine is admitted to NATO, which should have happened when they gave up their nukes and the US guaranteed their security via the Budapest Memorandum. Which Russia, Britain, and France signed as well.

Zelensky needs to walk where NATO tells him to.

 

[rightwinger]

Ukraine has as much chance of entering NATO as Wrong Pinger has of winning anything in Paris this summer .

This time next year -- or before -- there will be nothing left of Ukraine and with luck it will be a Russia controlled territory for repentant Israeli people, with tourists on the south coast and in its capital Volodyanople , replacing Nazi Kyiv .

There is little chance Ukraine will not eventually join NATO

Putin has made sure of that

 

[kyzr]

Ukraine has as much chance of entering NATO as Wrong Pinger has of winning anything in Paris this summer.
This time next year -- or before -- there will be nothing left of Ukraine and with luck it will be a Russia controlled territory for repentant Israeli people, with tourists on the south coast and in its capital Volodyanople , replacing Nazi Kyiv .

I'll take that bet. Russia will run out of troops long before next winter hits. Their men are fleeing the country.

 

[kyzr]

Putin is in a Lose/Lose situation

As long as NATO countries keep giving Ukraine weapons...

 

[Rambunctious]

1. So what is the right answer? Give Putin Ukraine so he has even more revenue to develop weapons with.
Which country would be next?

2. A nuclear war has no winners. Putin should be smart enough to know that. If he isn't his generals are. Its really not a threat, MAD has worked because it works.

There has to be a deal made between the two nations... let me tell you something... Putin will not hesitate to use nukes if he thinks he is about to lose... he doesn't care...
Biden never even tried to talk to him... never sent a team over... he invited the war to start...
There are some areas in Ukraine where Russian people live... they do business with Russia... that signals to me a deal was possible at one time... lets hope and pray it still is...

 

[bendog]

How about the 2014 boundaries and Putin keeps Crimea, which was Russia's before Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine?
Ukraine is admitted to NATO, which should have happened when they gave up their nukes and the US guaranteed their security via the Budapest Memorandum. Which Russia, Britain, and France signed as well.

Zelensky needs to walk where NATO tells him to.

I don't see Putin "settling" for that. He cannot really. He's promised russians a return to superpower status.

 

[bendog]

I'll take that bet. Russia will run out of troops long before next winter hits. Their men are fleeing the country.

Biden was pretty cavalier, imo, even with US troops before Beau caught cancer after being near burn pits. So's Obama for that matter, but he did end combat in Iraq. The Shia won. The Sunni became Isis. And the US lost it's way and fortune.

But I agree with you that Biden simply used Ukraine to bleed Russia, and with luck we'll steal their money and give it to Ukraine. Putin wanted to carve out Moldova and move to try Nato's backbone on the baltics. I mean, Maga can't even debate that because Putin's stooge Medvedev repeated it yesterday, but they'll lie like Putin.

 

[alang1216]

Can we at last acknowledge that having Ukraine join NATO was a bad idea? (Strategically, this is on par with Russia placing missiles in Cuba.) If we really thought Russia was so weak as to not oppose this idea, why didn't NATO just move into Ukraine and take over its defense? One explanation for pushing Ukraine to join NATO is that hatred towards Russia was ginned up in response to Russia's alleged interference in the 2016 US Presidential election. Do you have another explanation for why we wanted Ukraine to join NATO?

NATO, at least in theory, is a defensive alliance and every country deserves the right to defend itself. Ukraine joining NATO should never be a military threat to Russia.

 

[bendog]

NATO, at least in theory, is a defensive alliance and every country deserves the right to defend itself. Ukraine joining NATO should never be a military threat to Russia.

Oh, Russians will see a threat. At the very least they'll see Nato as forcing Russia to adopt a pro-West agenda.