UC Davis truth: Photo; Student admits they trapped cops on purpose! Link.

[8537]

if anyone "bull rushed" them, the cops had tear gas, pepper spray, batons and guns at their disposal. They were not in danger.

I guess you see what you want to believe.

Whatever pal, but I think you dramatically underestimate what a group of unarmed people can do.

Police forces all over the country routinely clear peaceful protesters without resorting to pepper spray, pal. They make arrests, which is what they are obligated to do.

Take any one of those cops equipped as they were and in the same proximity as the protesters put me and three other guys charging with the intent to fuck him up and that cop is a dead man.

Except, no one charged anyone. At any point. Ever. During the scene. They were sitting - not exactly a threatening position.

Now I will concede that that is an extreme scenario and it's highly doubtful that it would have gone down that way...maybe one chance in 10,000....BUT if it's my ass that's surrounded by a mob of people moving in toward me and shouting "fuck the police", I'm going to what I must to ensure that if someone goes down it aint me.

Using this standard (1 in 10,000), police officers would probably need to pepper spray every person they pull over for a routine traffic stop...just in case. A couple years ago, I stood a few hundred yards away as I watched my local police officers attempt to control the situation as an armed man stood in his front yard twirling a gun and screaming obscenities and threatening to kill someone. He was a clear threat. Did they shoot him? Drop tear gas on him? No. Did they feel threatened? Probably. But they waited let the situation diffuse. No one got hurt, no one got shot or pepper sprayed and they eventually arrested the guy.

Using force just escalates the situation and pepper spraying those students put the police in MORE danger because now they pissed off hundreds of people standing and sitting around.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, but man I think you're completely off base.

That's fine. We disagree. It's the fun of participating in threads.

 

[BluePhantom]

if anyone "bull rushed" them, the cops had tear gas, pepper spray, batons and guns at their disposal. They were not in danger.

I guess you see what you want to believe.

Last thing I am going to say here but I really want you to think about this. In the video I posted blow at around the 4:00 mark you can see how close the protesters are standing to the cops. It's maybe five yards....maybe. Now put yourself five yards away from a wall and see how long it takes you to run up and hit it with your hand. Just for shits and giggles I did it myself and it took me about one second wearing flip flops and I am over 40 years old.

Now you are a cop in that situation. You have armor, but your weapon is holstered. You have a baton in your weak hand (keep in mind no one at this point had even produced any pepper spray) and your strong hand down near your weapon. Now it becomes that one in 10,000 scenario and four guys rush you....are you suggesting that in less than a second you can draw your weapon, take the safety off, aim, and fire taking out all four of your attackers before they are top of you? Or that you can fend off all four with your baton before they tackle you? You'll be lucky to get one before you are pinned to the ground and at that point your armor won't do a damned thing. And your fellow officer behind you that you think is going to save your ass? He's gonna get crushed by the other four guys that are focusing on him.

Just saying....at this point I am happy to leave it alone...but you just think about that scenario and be real honest about whether you could defend yourself in that situation.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The cops were justified for what? Because they couldn't escape? Did they think to step over them? Also, did you notice in the video how the cops were walking back and forth with ease, to both sides of the line of students, coming back and forth to spray them more? Even if it had been necessary to use pepper spray to "break through" why did they go around spraying everyone? Clearly the cops were out of line and went well beyond anything that as necessary.

Not to mention that the amount and type of reaction is not supposed to be more than the action -eg - You can't get away with shooting someone in response to them yelling at you.

What we should all be more concerned about is that, across the country, people of all ages and walks of life have had their First Amendment rights trampled on and very few (right or left) have spoken out against it.

We're accustomed to the right being against Constitutional right for anyone but themselves, so it's not all that surprising that they're screeching 'hippies get a job' nonsense. But, this is the United States. Our law enforcement and our politicians should be willing, no... eager to defend our Constitution.

Further, the OWS speaks for the entire 99%, not just the LIB-ruls.

We're seeing way too many people ready to throw away their own rights and the rights of others, just as we see with the (not)Patriot Act. We're watching people defend the indefensible and taking pride in it.

 

[BluePhantom]

Further, the OWS speaks for the entire 99%, not just the LIB-ruls.

Make that at least 99% - 1

 

[MikeK]

Whatever pal, but I think you dramatically underestimate what a group of unarmed people can do. Take any one of those cops equipped as they were and in the same proximity as the protesters put me and three other guys charging with the intent to fuck him up and that cop is a dead man. He will definitely get one of us, maybe even two before we're on top of him, ripping his helmet off and shoving his baton down his throat.

Now I will concede that that is an extreme scenario and it's highly doubtful that it would have gone down that way...maybe one chance in 10,000....BUT if it's my ass that's surrounded by a mob of people moving in toward me and shouting "fuck the police", I'm going to what I must to ensure that if someone goes down it aint me.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, but man I think you're completely off base.

You are drawing melodramatic conclusions with absolutely nothing to base them on. If those cops did indeed infer a threat from that gathering all they had to do was put a "10-13" call on the air and every cop within twenty miles would have started showing up there within two minutes. That fact alone blows a hole in the scenario you've allowed those lying cops to plant in your mind.

There were two separate groups of students there. One group was seated on a sidewalk. The other group was a circular gathering of spectators. You have not presented a single example of any cop who was trying to pass through that group of spectators, or to arrest any of them, but who was physically and deliberately resisted or obstructed. If there were such a situation, then the cops would have been justified in spraying those who were obstructing them. The students who were sprayed were not obstructing those cops. They were simply resisting a verbal order to vacate. Instead of physically attempting to remove those students the cops chose to spray them directly in the face with high pressure, crowd control canisters of OC gas -- not the 2 oz. cans carried on their equipment belt for direct use on individuals. The difference is analogous to the difference between a garden hose and a fire hose. It is excessive in terms relevant to this issue.

The bottom line is there is no evidence to support the claim that those cops were "trapped" or menaced by a hostile gathering, which is the impression they are attempting, with your assistance, to create.

 

[MikeK]

But the idea that the cops were surrounded is so fucking stupid that I'm surprised the righties even brought it up.

When they realized how bad what they did looks on video they had to say something to justify it and the "circled and surrounded" gambit was all they had. They are trying to portray a circular gathering of bystanders, which takes place around any police involvement, as an Alamo scenario.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

candycorn, MikeK and others - nice to see that cooler heads prevailed in this discussion.

It really is pretty silly to say the cops were trapped. I imagine they'll take a lot of heat for being such sissies that they couldn't even escape those big meanies.

 

[BluePhantom]

You are drawing melodramatic conclusions with absolutely nothing to base them on. If those cops did indeed infer a threat from that gathering all they had to do was put a "10-13" call on the air and every cop within twenty miles would have started showing up there within two minutes. That fact alone blows a hole in the scenario you've allowed those lying cops to plant in your mind.

Pfft....in two minutes they are toast.

There were two separate groups of students there. One group was seated on a sidewalk. The other group was a circular gathering of spectators. You have not presented a single example of any cop who was trying to pass through that group of spectators, or to arrest any of them, but who was physically and deliberately resisted or obstructed. If there were such a situation, then the cops would have been justified in spraying those who were obstructing them. The students who were sprayed were not obstructing those cops. They were simply resisting a verbal order to vacate. Instead of physically attempting to remove those students the cops chose to spray them directly in the face with high pressure, crowd control canisters of OC gas -- not the 2 oz. cans carried on their equipment belt for direct use on individuals. The difference is analogous to the difference between a garden hose and a fire hose. It is excessive in terms relevant to this issue.

The bottom line is there is no evidence to support the claim that those cops were "trapped" or menaced by a hostile gathering, which is the impression they are attempting, with your assistance, to create.

Oh ok they were just peaceful bystanders with their arms linked and chanting as they formed a circle around the cops. And yeah...cops never get attacked huh?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0LVy_i_Xv8]cop gets beat up.....woooooooooooooooW - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jagvYIMJyzU&feature=related]Guards that Beat Fan are then Beaten by More Fans - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGuwvS62syM&feature=related]Cop Gets Beat Up On Tape - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki52O1JomJM]cops get beat up - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XAS3KCv9w4&feature=related]Cop Gets Beat Down By Security Guard - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MikeK]

ok they were just peaceful bystanders with their arms linked and chanting as they formed a circle around the cops.

And yeah...cops never get attacked huh?

Sometimes they do but mostly they don't. Especially when there are more than one or two of them.

If the situation was as you presume it to be, a small group of cops surrounded by a menacing, confining mob, the worst possible thing those cops could do is provoke that hostile gathering. But in spite of those supposedly volatile circumstances the cops did exactly the worst possible thing -- they casually, arrogantly and contemptuously sprayed a small, passive group of students with pepper gas. And nothing happened.

What does that suggest?

 

[bucs90]

ok they were just peaceful bystanders with their arms linked and chanting as they formed a circle around the cops.

And yeah...cops never get attacked huh?

Sometimes they do but mostly they don't. Especially when there are more than one or two of them.

If the situation was as you presume it to be, a small group of cops surrounded by a menacing, confining mob, the worst possible thing those cops could do is provoke that hostile gathering. But in spite of those supposedly volatile circumstances the cops did exactly the worst possible thing -- they casually, arrogantly and contemptuously sprayed a small, passive group of students with pepper gas. And nothing happened.

What does that suggest?

I worked at Atlanta PD for 8 years.

I'll tell you what it suggests. That they chose the least bad of a lot of bad choices.

- Hand to hand force results in injury claims, brutality claims, lawsuits for hurt joints and fights ensue
- Batons....need I say why thats bad?
- K9....need I say why thats bad?
- Tasers....again, really?

OC Spray has NEVER resulted in a death or permanent injury. Its a liquid pepper that is 3x WEAKER than the 15% version sold commercially just so the lawsuits are minimized. COURTS have ruled on HUNDREDS of OC Spray cases since ZARC International founded it in the 1980s, and the COURTs have ruled OC as a safe, although ugly, method for handling passive resistance.

Blame lawyers. Blame courts. But a LT did that spraying, as commanding officer, because the higher ranking command wanted to be sure it was done by the book. And it was. Ugly, but 100% by the book of law ruled for 20 years of OC use in courts.

And dont even start with "they should've just stepped over them". If you dont know why it's a bad idea for cops to step their "steel toed boots" at head and teeth level, and put their guns and weapons within arms reach of an unknown crowd....if you dont see why thats a bad choice, well, you'll never understand police work.

 

[Cowman]

OC Spray has NEVER resulted in a death or permanent injury.

Pepper spray has caused severe allergic reactions in individuals which has killed them.


In addition:

The US Army concluded in a 1993 Aberdeen Proving Ground study that pepper spray could cause "[m]utagenic effects, carcinogenic effects, sensitization, cardiovascular and pulmonary toxicity, neurotoxicity, as well as possible human fatalities. There is a risk in using this product on a large and varied population".[10]

 

[Mr.Nick]

UC Davis Student Admits Protesters Surrounded Cops and Wouldn't Let Them Leave | NewsBusters.org

Well well well. The UC Davis TRUTH is now leaking out. In the above link, a UC Davis protestor admits that they purposely encircled the cops, and quote: "We had encircled them [campus police], and they were trying to leave, and they were trying to clear a path. And so, we sat down, linked arms, and said that if they wanted to clear the path, they would have to go through us"

And "go through" you the cops did. BUT...dont believe the statement? How about the photo? Below, you'll see the cop who sprayed them.......AND the cops who were stuck inside the hippie circle in the back, who were told "you'll have to go through us". HERE is the photo:

At last tank man was fighting for freedom..........

OWS fights for communism and a government dictated economy everything that man was against...

 

[Cowman]

No they don't, retard.

 

[MeBelle]

I want to remind everyone that these 'kids' were not part of the OWS movement as some have claimed on this board.

Viewpoints: UC Davis chancellor must do the right thing – resign - Sacramento Opinion - Sacramento Editorial | Sacramento Bee

"I was one of the 10 University of California, Davis, students who were pepper-sprayed on Nov. 18 by police acting on behalf of UC Davis Chancellor Linda Katehi. We were peacefully protesting massive UC tuition hikes and never posed a threat to any officers, but the riot police used military grade pepper spray point-blank on us."

OK, I have had about enough of this nonsense! I have listened to the ranting and raving of people who were not there.
Well, here goes, I WAS there, as was my son, picking up his girlfriend from UC Davis. They were there when the police arrived. My son had the good sense to hustle his girl out of there.
The students were protesting tuition hikes, they were NOT part of the OWS movement.
Similar but larger protests were held in 2009:
November 19, 2009
DAVIS— Update at 9:00PM: Sacramento Police are assisting UC Davis Campus Police in what has turned into a loud and rowdy protest on campus following the news of higher fees for student undergrads. There have been conflicting reports of some arrests made by police. FOX40 News will have the latest on the FOX40 News at 10PM.

Small UC Davis Protest Turns Rowdy, Police Called - KTXL

And again in 2010:
At approximately 11:30 A.M. today, UC Davis broke out in protest. Marchers gathered on the school's Quad, fire alarms in Wellman (one of the school's largest classroom buildings) were pulled, and news cameras affixed themselves indefinitely to the scene.
Gabrielle Grow: March 4th Protests at UC: What Do Protests Accomplish?

This specific incident is not about OWS, even though OWS co-opeted the students protest.
It's about how CalSters and CalPers is holding employees hostage with their ponzi scheme of a retirement program, that will be paid for on the backs of many generations to come!

Take a look at how much salary they make...this salary does not include other benefits that allow many state employees to have the same standard of living as when they were working

The taxpayer is on the hook for this lifestyle, for LIFE.

Thank you Jerry Brown. No wonder CA is going broke.

State Worker Salary Search - sacbee.com

And then there are the anuitents....

 

[Mr.Nick]

I want to remind everyone that these 'kids' were not part of the OWS movement as some have claimed on this board.

Viewpoints: UC Davis chancellor must do the right thing – resign - Sacramento Opinion - Sacramento Editorial | Sacramento Bee

"I was one of the 10 University of California, Davis, students who were pepper-sprayed on Nov. 18 by police acting on behalf of UC Davis Chancellor Linda Katehi. We were peacefully protesting massive UC tuition hikes and never posed a threat to any officers, but the riot police used military grade pepper spray point-blank on us."

OK, I have had about enough of this nonsense! I have listened to the ranting and raving of people who were not there.
Well, here goes, I WAS there, as was my son, picking up his girlfriend from UC Davis. They were there when the police arrived. My son had the good sense to hustle his girl out of there.
The students were protesting tuition hikes, they were NOT part of the OWS movement.
Similar but larger protests were held in 2009:
November 19, 2009
DAVIS— Update at 9:00PM: Sacramento Police are assisting UC Davis Campus Police in what has turned into a loud and rowdy protest on campus following the news of higher fees for student undergrads. There have been conflicting reports of some arrests made by police. FOX40 News will have the latest on the FOX40 News at 10PM.

Small UC Davis Protest Turns Rowdy, Police Called - KTXL

And again in 2010:
At approximately 11:30 A.M. today, UC Davis broke out in protest. Marchers gathered on the school's Quad, fire alarms in Wellman (one of the school's largest classroom buildings) were pulled, and news cameras affixed themselves indefinitely to the scene.
Gabrielle Grow: March 4th Protests at UC: What Do Protests Accomplish?

This specific incident is not about OWS, even though OWS co-opeted the students protest.
It's about how CalSters and CalPers is holding employees hostage with their ponzi scheme of a retirement program, that will be paid for on the backs of many generations to come!

Take a look at how much salary they make...this salary does not include other benefits that allow many state employees to pretty live as well as when they were working

State Worker Salary Search - sacbee.com

And then there are the anuitents....

Watch this..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UYwcxGLkwQ]Man tased execution style in his own home by police over an Ipod. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MeBelle]

Watch this..

Man tased execution style in his own home by police over an Ipod. - YouTube

Nick, if the point of the thread is police brutality, I missed it because my eyes are bleeding from trying to point people in the right direction, re: NOT OWS, with regards to this incident!

 

[Mr.Nick]

Watch this..

Man tased execution style in his own home by police over an Ipod. - YouTube

Nick, if the point of the thread is police brutality, I missed it because my are bleeding from trying to point people in the right direction, re: NOT OWS, with regards to this incident!

I'm just pointing out that some get what they deserve and others get it...

OWS provoked and got their ass kicked.... Cops didn't walk into their home and assault them..

 

[MeBelle]

Watch this..

Man tased execution style in his own home by police over an Ipod. - YouTube

Nick, if the point of the thread is police brutality, I missed it because my [sic] are bleeding from trying to point people in the right direction, re: NOT OWS, with regards to this incident!

I'm just pointing out that some get what they deserve and others get it...

OWS provoked and got their ass kicked.... Cops didn't walk into their home and assault them..

And in this instance I agree with you. Now can you pretty please go back and fix my typo in the quote?


ARGHHHHHH, my eyes are still bleeding!!! lol

 

[Mr.Nick]

Nick, if the point of the thread is police brutality, I missed it because my [sic] are bleeding from trying to point people in the right direction, re: NOT OWS, with regards to this incident!

I'm just pointing out that some get what they deserve and others get it...

OWS provoked and got their ass kicked.... Cops didn't walk into their home and assault them..

And in this instance I agree with you. Now can you pretty please go back and fix my typo in the quote?


ARGHHHHHH, my eyes are still bleeding!!! lol

I didn't change your post , your grammar is fine IMO..

Oh I see now...

How about I forgive you???

I can do that...

I'm not a mod......

 

[MeBelle]

I'm just pointing out that some get what they deserve and others get it...

OWS provoked and got their ass kicked.... Cops didn't walk into their home and assault them..

And in this instance I agree with you. Now can you pretty please go back and fix my typo in the quote?


ARGHHHHHH, my eyes are still bleeding!!! lol

I didn't change your post , your grammar is fine IMO..

Oh I see now...

How about I forgive you???

I can do that...

Forgive me for making a typo?
That Was Easy!

Read your pm please .