U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert

[theHawk]

There is a separtion of church and state in this country.

Really? Where in the law does it say that?

 

[Smartt33]

Religious discrimination in the military | Secular Coalition for America


Specialist Jeremy Hall decided to be open and honest about his lack of religious faith, challenging the old adage that there are no atheists in foxholes. It turned out to be a move that jeopardized his deployment, his military career, and even his personal safety.

Pressure came both from peers and from officers. When Jeremy decided not to pray at Thanksgiving dinner, he was singled out and told that he couldn’t sit with the others. A superior officer later told him that, in order to be a good leader, he would have to put his personal convictions aside and pray anyway. Jeremy refused to do so, and did not receive a promotion. The situation got worse when Jeremy’s meeting of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers was crashed by Major Welborn, who chastised him and threatened disciplinary action – simply because Jeremy was an atheist.

Jeremy began receiving death threats. On leave in Qatar, he was chased by a group of soldiers who called him religious slurs and threatened to beat him up. Fearing for Jeremy’s safety, the US Army assigned him a full-time bodyguard, and later transferred him out of the Middle East onto a military base in Kansas. Jeremy filed a lawsuit claiming that the coercive religious climate in the military was an unconstitutional violation of his religious freedom. After three and a half years in the Army, he decided not to re-enlist. Despite the desire to serve, he felt unable to do so as an open atheist.

This article gives no source. How would anyone expect that conservatives, and Christians would take the "secular" site as a credible source when the liberal other rejects Fox?

The story may be true, however, I see no reason to take any stock in it.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

"The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion," he said. "It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds."
"Chambers acknowledges without trepidation that there are some Soldiers who lack the moral upbringing or ethical consciousness to fulfill their promise as Soldiers"


His job is not to give them religion.

Its to train them to fight.

I am NO religion and so are MANY Americans and we dont want your religions no matter how much you think we should have them.

So moral upbringing or ethical consciousness is only for religious people? Nonreligious people don't possess moral upbringing nor ethical consciousness?

Surely you jest.

 

[Gadawg73]

There is a separtion of church and state in this country.

Really? Where in the law does it say that?

You have it backwards.
NO where in the law is there any mention of any religion and their invisible men in the sky.
The Founders of this great country RAN LIKE HELL from religious influences on government in Europe.
They sure were smart, weren't they?

 

[Gadawg73]

"The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion," he said. "It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds."
"Chambers acknowledges without trepidation that there are some Soldiers who lack the moral upbringing or ethical consciousness to fulfill their promise as Soldiers"


His job is not to give them religion.

Its to train them to fight.

I am NO religion and so are MANY Americans and we dont want your religions no matter how much you think we should have them.

So moral upbringing or ethical consciousness is only for religious people? Nonreligious people don't possess moral upbringing nor ethical consciousness?

Surely you jest.

We are talking about the military, not moral upbringing.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

There is a separtion of church and state in this country.

Really? Where in the law does it say that?

You have it backwards.
NO where in the law is there any mention of any religion and their invisible men in the sky.
The Founders of this great country RAN LIKE HELL from religious influences on government in Europe.
They sure were smart, weren't they?

Guess you've never read the Declaration of Independence.

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

 

[Lonestar_logic]

"The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion," he said. "It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds."
"Chambers acknowledges without trepidation that there are some Soldiers who lack the moral upbringing or ethical consciousness to fulfill their promise as Soldiers"


His job is not to give them religion.

Its to train them to fight.

I am NO religion and so are MANY Americans and we dont want your religions no matter how much you think we should have them.

So moral upbringing or ethical consciousness is only for religious people? Nonreligious people don't possess moral upbringing nor ethical consciousness?

Surely you jest.

We are talking about the military, not moral upbringing.

TM was equating religion to moral upbringing and/or ethical consciousness. And the subject, since you haven't been paying attention, is about whether or not the military was forcing religion onto our soldiers, hence the title of this thread "U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert ".

Reading comprehension is a good thing and not that hard to master, you should give it a try.

 

[Smartt33]

I'll say this Dave, if the story hits mainstream media and it turns out to be false, I'll move it personally to Conspiracy Theories myself and admit I was wrong.

A few days later, some of the soldiers punished for choosing not to attend this concert contacted the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF). The following is from the account sent by one of those soldiers to MRFF, detailing what transpired that night.

DOJ: No Evidence Anyone 'Affected' By Widespread Proselytizing in Military | War Is A Crime .org

MRFF founder and president Mikey Weinstein, a former White House counsel in the Reagan administration, and general counsel to Texas billionaire and two-time presidential candidate H. Ross Perot, sharply criticized the Justice Department’s legal argument.

“I find the DOJ's use of the word "tolerable" to be quite transparently disingenuous,” said Weinstein, who graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy and has also served as an Air Force Judge Advocate General (JAG). “In today's U.S. military, having to endure such forced nonsecular indoctrination is about as "tolerable" as having an electric cattle prod shoved into one's body crevices. Shame on the DOJ."

If this story was shown to be false, it would not be mentioned on mainstream news channels. It has no basis for even being told. It has no resources where the information can be verified.

 

[Gadawg73]

Really? Where in the law does it say that?

You have it backwards.
NO where in the law is there any mention of any religion and their invisible men in the sky.
The Founders of this great country RAN LIKE HELL from religious influences on government in Europe.
They sure were smart, weren't they?

Guess you've never read the Declaration of Independence.

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

Hate to break the news to you Moe:
The Declaration of Independence IS NOT THE LAW.
You do not use much logic.
The Founders kept religion and God out of ALL OF OUR LAWS.
Sorry Charlie, you lose once again.
We are not a nation of men, their religions and beliefs of invisible men in the sky.
We are a nation OF LAWS.

 

[Gadawg73]

http://www.militaryreligousfreedom.org/about/michael-l-mikey-weinstein/

 

[Gunny]

Talk To Action | U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert

On May 13, 2010, about eighty soldiers, stationed at Fort Eustis while attending a training course, were punished for opting out of attending one of these Christian concerts. The headliner at this concert was a Christian rock band called BarlowGirl, a band that describes itself as taking "an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God."

Any doubt that this was an evangelical Christian event was cleared up by the Army post's newspaper, the Fort Eustis Wheel, which ran an article after the concert that began:

"Following the Apostle Paul's message to the Ephesians in the Bible, Christian rock music's edgy, all-girl band BarlowGirl brought the armor of God to the warriors and families of Fort Eustis during another installment of the Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert Series May 13 at Jacobs Theater."

"Those of us that chose not to attend (about 80, or a little less that half) were marched back to the company area. At that point the NCO issued us a punishment. We were to be on lock-down in the company (not released from duty), could not go anywhere on post (no PX, no library, etc). We were to go to strictly to the barracks and contact maintenance. If we were caught sitting in our rooms, in our beds, or having/handling electronics (cell phones, laptops, games) and doing anything other than maintenance, we would further have our weekend passes revoked and continue barracks maintenance for the entirety of the weekend. At that point the implied message was clear in my mind 'we gave you a choice to either satisfy us or disappoint us. Since you chose to disappoint us you will now have your freedoms suspended and contact chores while the rest of your buddies are enjoying a concert.'

"At that evening, nine of us chose to pursue an EO complaint. I was surprised to find out that a couple of the most offended soldiers were actually Christian themselves (Catholic). One of them was grown as a child in Cuba and this incident enraged him particularly as it brought memories of oppression."

In the Army.mil article, Maj. Gen. Chambers was quoted as saying, "The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion. It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds." But there has been no "mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds" at these concerts. Every one of them has had evangelical Christian performers, who typically not only perform their music but give their Christian testimony and read from the Bible in between songs.

So, thoughts USMB?

Yeah. It's bullshit.

 

[AllieBaba]

You have it backwards.
NO where in the law is there any mention of any religion and their invisible men in the sky.
The Founders of this great country RAN LIKE HELL from religious influences on government in Europe.
They sure were smart, weren't they?

Guess you've never read the Declaration of Independence.

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

Hate to break the news to you Moe:
The Declaration of Independence IS NOT THE LAW.
You do not use much logic.
The Founders kept religion and God out of ALL OF OUR LAWS.
Sorry Charlie, you lose once again.
We are not a nation of men, their religions and beliefs of invisible men in the sky.
We are a nation OF LAWS.

Per usual, you completely missed the point.

Which wasn't that our laws are based upon religious belief, but rather that our founders came from a position of faith. As is evidenced by the Declaration.

Way to be a dishonest prick. Again.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You have it backwards.
NO where in the law is there any mention of any religion and their invisible men in the sky.
The Founders of this great country RAN LIKE HELL from religious influences on government in Europe.
They sure were smart, weren't they?

Guess you've never read the Declaration of Independence.

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

Hate to break the news to you Moe:
The Declaration of Independence IS NOT THE LAW.
You do not use much logic.
The Founders kept religion and God out of ALL OF OUR LAWS.
Sorry Charlie, you lose once again.
We are not a nation of men, their religions and beliefs of invisible men in the sky.
We are a nation OF LAWS.

Nor did I say it was numbnuts. I was specifically countering your assessment that our forefathers ran from religious influence. Fact is they did not, they left England due to religious persecution for the most part. Another fact is that our forfathers were mostly religious men and any of their writings can attest to that.

And lastly the fact that there are laws concerning religion.

Federal Laws Against Religious Discrimination

Looks like you lose!

 

[AllieBaba]

Religious discrimination in the military | Secular Coalition for America


Specialist Jeremy Hall decided to be open and honest about his lack of religious faith, challenging the old adage that there are no atheists in foxholes. It turned out to be a move that jeopardized his deployment, his military career, and even his personal safety.

Pressure came both from peers and from officers. When Jeremy decided not to pray at Thanksgiving dinner, he was singled out and told that he couldn’t sit with the others. A superior officer later told him that, in order to be a good leader, he would have to put his personal convictions aside and pray anyway. Jeremy refused to do so, and did not receive a promotion. The situation got worse when Jeremy’s meeting of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers was crashed by Major Welborn, who chastised him and threatened disciplinary action – simply because Jeremy was an atheist.

Jeremy began receiving death threats. On leave in Qatar, he was chased by a group of soldiers who called him religious slurs and threatened to beat him up. Fearing for Jeremy’s safety, the US Army assigned him a full-time bodyguard, and later transferred him out of the Middle East onto a military base in Kansas. Jeremy filed a lawsuit claiming that the coercive religious climate in the military was an unconstitutional violation of his religious freedom. After three and a half years in the Army, he decided not to re-enlist. Despite the desire to serve, he felt unable to do so as an open atheist.

This article gives no source. How would anyone expect that conservatives, and Christians would take the "secular" site as a credible source when the liberal other rejects Fox?

The story may be true, however, I see no reason to take any stock in it.

Atheists are typically social rejects who blather incessently about how stupid Christians are. So while I agree with you about the dubious nature of the story and the source, on the other hand I could certainly see soldiers reacting strongly to a loser who insists on insulting others at every opportunity.

 

[Gadawg73]

So moral upbringing or ethical consciousness is only for religious people? Nonreligious people don't possess moral upbringing nor ethical consciousness?

Surely you jest.

We are talking about the military, not moral upbringing.

TM was equating religion to moral upbringing and/or ethical consciousness. And the subject, since you haven't been paying attention, is about whether or not the military was forcing religion onto our soldiers, hence the title of this thread "U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert ".

Reading comprehension is a good thing and not that hard to master, you should give it a try.

Ok, I see your point.
Now back it up yourself.
Using reading comprehension show me where The Declaration of Independence is THE LAW.
I will wait until hell freezes over for any evidence you can forge.
All mouth and no substance.

 

[Gadawg73]

Religious discrimination in the military | Secular Coalition for America


Specialist Jeremy Hall decided to be open and honest about his lack of religious faith, challenging the old adage that there are no atheists in foxholes. It turned out to be a move that jeopardized his deployment, his military career, and even his personal safety.

Pressure came both from peers and from officers. When Jeremy decided not to pray at Thanksgiving dinner, he was singled out and told that he couldn’t sit with the others. A superior officer later told him that, in order to be a good leader, he would have to put his personal convictions aside and pray anyway. Jeremy refused to do so, and did not receive a promotion. The situation got worse when Jeremy’s meeting of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers was crashed by Major Welborn, who chastised him and threatened disciplinary action – simply because Jeremy was an atheist.

Jeremy began receiving death threats. On leave in Qatar, he was chased by a group of soldiers who called him religious slurs and threatened to beat him up. Fearing for Jeremy’s safety, the US Army assigned him a full-time bodyguard, and later transferred him out of the Middle East onto a military base in Kansas. Jeremy filed a lawsuit claiming that the coercive religious climate in the military was an unconstitutional violation of his religious freedom. After three and a half years in the Army, he decided not to re-enlist. Despite the desire to serve, he felt unable to do so as an open atheist.

This article gives no source. How would anyone expect that conservatives, and Christians would take the "secular" site as a credible source when the liberal other rejects Fox?

The story may be true, however, I see no reason to take any stock in it.

Atheists are typically social rejects who blather incessently about how stupid Christians are. So while I agree with you about the dubious nature of the story and the source, on the other hand I could certainly see soldiers reacting strongly to a loser who insists on insulting others at every opportunity.

HAHAHAHA
You claim atheists are "social rejects who blather incessently" and "a loser" and insult people.
YOU are the one blathering and insulting people.
But you are right about this Allie.
That IS what losers do.

 

[AllieBaba]

I would extend the same advice to the pantywaist atheist who whines about his treatment at the hands of the soldiers that I gave to the little loser next door who used to torment my kids...

If you don't want to get the shit knocked out of you, don't fuck with the big dogs. While they will certainly get in trouble for their treatment of you, you're still the one who will suffer.

 

[Gadawg73]

Guess you've never read the Declaration of Independence.

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

Hate to break the news to you Moe:
The Declaration of Independence IS NOT THE LAW.
You do not use much logic.
The Founders kept religion and God out of ALL OF OUR LAWS.
Sorry Charlie, you lose once again.
We are not a nation of men, their religions and beliefs of invisible men in the sky.
We are a nation OF LAWS.

Per usual, you completely missed the point.

Which wasn't that our laws are based upon religious belief, but rather that our founders came from a position of faith. As is evidenced by the Declaration.

Way to be a dishonest prick. Again.

Everyone that I know "comes from a position of faith".
That doesn't mean a damn thing. Talk is cheap, just like you are.

 

[Gadawg73]

I would extend the same advice to the pantywaist atheist who whines about his treatment at the hands of the soldiers that I gave to the little loser next door who used to torment my kids...

If you don't want to get the shit knocked out of you, don't fuck with the big dogs. While they will certainly get in trouble for their treatment of you, you're still the one who will suffer.

How do you know they are atheists? Maybe they are Jewish.
Your assumptions are consistently WRONG.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

We are talking about the military, not moral upbringing.

TM was equating religion to moral upbringing and/or ethical consciousness. And the subject, since you haven't been paying attention, is about whether or not the military was forcing religion onto our soldiers, hence the title of this thread "U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert ".

Reading comprehension is a good thing and not that hard to master, you should give it a try.

Ok, I see your point.
Now back it up yourself.
Using reading comprehension show me where The Declaration of Independence is THE LAW.
I will wait until hell freezes over for any evidence you can forge.
All mouth and no substance.

I never said it was law. I was specifically arguing against your claim that our forefathers ran away from religious influence. However I did show proof that there are laws concerning religion in this country which blows your argument that there wasn't out of the water.