U.S. Fracking's Larger Implications

[The Irish Ram]

No whine RGD, that's your gig. I offered the flip side of the "great story" posted here. You turned in into a pissing match, middle school style.

35 minutes due west of Pittsburgh isn't quite the hillbilly haven you make it out to be. What part of Deliverance were you born in dummy? A little further south I recon.

You've been sucking too much of that Denver brown cloud if you think anyone is going to believe that the gas and oil companies can be trusted to keep their word. Case in point, 13 spills. They are only using monkeys like you to monitor a few of the wells here because only a few are being monitored by the EPA, and they've told Big Gas which ones they are! I bet 13 spills don't happen on those sites! So how many bananas do you get for a 13 spill record?

And hell no, this isn't all I've got. I could post one of your boss's lying schemes every day for 93 days just from one local paper alone!

But back to that great story, before you got all butt hurt:
Remember all those households saving all that money on cheaper fuel? LLLOL. There's no coal industry anymore. Energy costs are necessarily going to skyrocket, remember that quote? Do you think that they are going to forget to TAX the gas as soon as it hits the surface?

In fact, as we speak:
Gubernatorial Frontrunner Proposes Severance Tax
Pennsylvania’s democratic gubernatorial frontrunner, U.S. Rep. Allyson Schwartz, announced she would impose a 5 percent severance tax on Marcellus Shale production, according to State Impact Pennsylvania.

“Schwartz told reporters on a conference call that her plan for what she called a “reasonable, fair, moderate tax” would generate $612 million this year and nearly triple to $2 billion in about 10 years. She said she wants to use the money to invest in education and transportation infrastructure.” ( in Egypt, lol )

Schwartz isn’t the only candidate making a severance tax proposal. Candidates John Hanger and Katie McGinty also call for more taxes.

Republican Governor Tom Corbett has said there’s no need for additional taxes on the oil and gas industry.

Millions and billions RGGR, sucked right out of the pockets of all those lucky households.
That poor little girl's crying because your boss stole her Daddy's gas and her room is so cold.........

 

[RGR]

35 minutes due west of Pittsburgh isn't quite the hillbilly haven you make it out to be. What part of Deliverance were you born in dummy? A little further south I recon.

East actually. Closer to Johnstown. You are right, west of Pittsburgh isn't all that bad, the people there with brains have had plenty of opportunity to leave.

Interestingly, I cruised up the river from Wheeling to East Liverpool before the AAPG National in Pittsburgh. All the good labor you claim is there sure doesn't seem to be keeping the manufacturing around, more empty mills and whatnot than I have seen in awhile.

You've been sucking too much of that Denver brown cloud if you think anyone is going to believe that the gas and oil companies can be trusted to keep their word.

Obviously you haven't been to Denver recently. And you should learn to read at a level more appropriate to even someone close to Appalachia in the local dying countryside hoping to become a sububan zone for Pittsburgh, I told you I don't live in Denver.

Remember all those households saving all that money on cheaper fuel? LLLOL. There's no coal industry anymore. Energy costs are necessarily going to skyrocket, remember that quote? Do you think that they are going to forget to TAX the gas as soon as it hits the surface?

It is your state, not mine. If you don't like what they tax, or don't tax, I recommend you whine to your local representative.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You are right about that. Lots of lost jobs for the middle class here. And, I didn't claim there was labor, just the opposite. I claimed that laborers would rather work than lose their homes.

Clinton got rid of the steel mills, Obama got rid of the coal, and gas is going to necessarily skyrocket.

Not my state, Pennsylvania.

I skim over your posts, so.... location: Denver, is about all that caught my interest.

Did you happen to stop by the well that exploded and melted the highway while you were up that way? Young worker in his 20's killed. Sad.
I could get the location of the accidental, reoccurring spill site in case you want to lend your expertise to your fellow gas jocks..........

 

[RGR]

You are right about that. Lots of lost jobs for the middle class here. And, I didn't claim there was labor, just the opposite. I claimed that laborers would rather work than lose their homes.

Maybe they would. But the future is built on the young, and the last 6 younglings (they were younglings, recent graduates from a machine operator school no less) that were hired for oil field work that I know of didn't last 2 weeks. I blame that more of their parents than them of course, but their parents would be the home owners, and are the ones telling them that, "gee Johnny, it is so unreasonable for you to work so hard, why don't you just quit and come home".

Clinton got rid of the steel mills, Obama got rid of the coal, and gas is going to necessarily skyrocket.

Maybe in the future. Certainly that isn't what is happening now, those natural gas drillers really know what they are doing.

Manufacturing Energy Consumption Survey (MECS) - Analysis & Projections - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Did you happen to stop by the well that exploded and melted the highway while you were up that way? Young worker in his 20's killed. Sad.
I could get the location of the accidental, reoccurring spill site in case you want to lend your expertise to your fellow gas jocks..........

Oil field work is hard, and dangerous. Bad things happen, are usually random in nature, and the oil fields always improving safety record is a credit to the people who work in the industry who never forget this. This is why farmers and those who are naturally scared, raised to be fearful, taught by their union educators to be horrified of hard work and disdain the idea of competitive placement (in addition to limited skill sets, poor work ethic or lacking intellectual abilities) are better off not applying.

Certainly the best steel is made by the hottest fire, and those forged professionally in the oil field are allowed to giggle about those who turned into a puddle along the way. This would apply to the few who APPLY of course, most raised with the limitations I've mentioned don't even try of course.

 

[The Irish Ram]

So farmer dig in dirt, but gas company's dig in dirt! You appear to be the essence of the Peter Principal.

EIA. hahahahahahhahaa OSHA. hahahahahhaha EPA. hahahhahhahaha What's not to believe heh?

Those politicians said millions now, billions in the future.

If your boss doesn't even want to pay for the "misc." costs incurred for procuring the resources and instead tries to pass the expenses of their business on to the poor property owners, what chance is there that they are going to eat millions and billions of tax burden the gov. is so fond of. True to form, that burden will be tacked onto our utility bills.
It is the real 1% using the other real 1% to plunder the middle class.

The best steel was made right here, in this valley, by the hard workers here, in this valley. There is no more "best" steel. There is inferior steel from China, forged in mills, run on coal, whose air we insist on going broke to clean, before we pass it onto Europe.

Of course you laugh at the "puddles". < (what a cute name for devastation) Moral bankruptcy is the hallmark of your business.

 

[RGR]

So farmer dig in dirt, but gas company's dig in dirt! You appear to be the essence of the Peter Principal.

Is this an oblique reference to your reference of "blowing" a well?

If your boss doesn't even want to pay for the "misc." costs incurred for procuring the resources and instead tries to pass the expenses of their business on to the poor property owners, what chance is there that they are going to eat millions and billions of tax burden the gov. is so fond of. True to form, that burden will be tacked onto our utility bills.
It is the real 1% using the other real 1% to plunder the middle class.

My boss doesn't procure resources. My boss doesn't "pass expenses along" because I don't work for a "for profit" enterprise. I inform, educate, present, consult with other professionals in the field, coordinate and confer.

Whatever windmill you are tilting at, it does not appear to involve me. Or my boss.

The best steel was made right here, in this valley, by the hard workers here, in this valley.

WAS being the key word in that sentence. Just as I fled Appalachia decades ago, so to did the jobs in manufacturing as the educational system and work ethic declined, the "I am owed" attitudes of workers reinforced by the unions and their political influence in Pennsylvania....WAS being the key word indeed.

Of course you laugh at the "puddles". < (what a cute name for devastation) Moral bankruptcy is the hallmark of your business.

The hallmark of the oil and gas business (which I have already said I am not longer in, your reading comprehension just proving my point about Appalachia) is to make sure you have gasoline to put in your car, and that companies can provide plentiful natural gas so they can afford to hire even the likes of Appalachia workers.

What kind of hypocrite are you to bitch and whine from your privileged position only obtained BECAUSE of the things you pretend to despise?

 

[The Irish Ram]

My privileged position has nothing to do with what I despise, and everything to do with what I love. No lease necessary...........
If I do sign though, you'll have to address my even loftier privileged position.

NAFTA was responsible for the steel mill decline here, not the work ethic.
Obama was responsible for the coal industry decline, not the work ethic.

And as I said before, there isn't a sizable piece of property here that hasn't been leased. Responsible frackers are welcome all over the tri-state area. We don't despise progress, we embrace it.
13 pretend spills are what we resent. Lying, cheating, thieves who confer are the cutthroats we are dealing with this time around.

I'm sure your right. Making sure we have gas for our cars is tantamount for big gas and oil. Profits take a back seat to our well being. Good one.

Odd, considering that you were born in Appalachia and lived in Appalachia until you were old enough to flee, lol, you seem to have a real hard on for the good folks of Appalachia, never missing an opportunity to denigrate them, Lil Abner.
Are there other groups you resent as well?

 

[RGR]

My privileged position has nothing to do with what I despise, and everything to do with what I love.

Bullshit. You undoubtedly drive a car, using liquid fuels manufactured by the industry you are currently bashing. Perhaps you are even so hypocritical as to mow your lawn with a lawn mower powered by those same kinds of fuels, I bet your farmer friends don't use horses to plow their fields but instead use the labor and sweat of the oil and gas industry to allow you and them to produce more food using their product.

You are typing these posts on a computer made out of plastic, itself a product of the production of oil and gas. You are using electricity to communicate with the WWW, and the infrastructure used to support electrical generation is all based on oil and gas consumption.

Your privileged position is that of an American, raised in a rich country with plentiful resources and far fewer competent people doing productive work in the oil and gas industry to support the masses who would rather whine and bitch about how awful it is, the very process which allows them to do the bitching and whining.

If I do sign though, you'll have to address my even loftier privileged position.

Not a chance. I have made more landowners wealthy than you know, and the same ignorant fool with $100 in the bank is still an ignorant fool with $100,000 in the bank. Money will not change your disposition, attitude, or ignorance. You will just be a wealthier fool, nothing more, your new-found wealth having NOTHING to do with your abilities, but only the luck of owning something of value. Something else I am certain of is that you didn't buy that property with the intent of speculating in resource extraction. That would require brains and experience, neither of which you have. The consequences of the few people with demonstrated capability in the industry you despise allows you to be a privileged American, you have already told us how your success has NOTHING to do with your abilities, only the luck of where you were born and who owned what particular chunk of land.

Enjoy having hit the lottery (maybe) with no prerequisite of training, experience or brains required. And you are welcome, from the industry which made it possible for those who know so little, so have so much.

NAFTA was responsible for the steel mill decline here, not the work ethic.
Obama was responsible for the coal industry decline, not the work ethic.

NAFTA was responsible for more competition, and your area lost. Because you can't compete. Which is also why you can't get jobs in an industry BUILT on the idea. Obama didn't begin the coal industry decline, the success of the natural gas drillers bringing the price down to displace coal generated electricity did, Obama just made it easier for the success of the oil and gas industry to displace an older and dirtier one. No magic involved in that at all...and of course natural gas drilling isn't a union based activity either, so to some extent this was inevitable as unions drive inefficiencies into the system and the oil and gas industry is supreme at getting rid of such inefficiencies. And the local labor and their unions which create them.

Plus of course those incapable of doing the work required by the oil and gas drilling industry, mortgages or not.

And as I said before, there isn't a sizable piece of property here that hasn't been leased. Responsible frackers are welcome all over the tri-state area. We don't despise progress, we embrace it.

Liar. You yourself have disproved this statement through multiple pages of whining about things which haven't happened to you. Frackers aren't welcome in the least, here are some of your neighbors, being "welcoming".

No Fracking! Stop Hydraulic Fracturing Gas Drilling in NY, PA, OH and Beyond

13 pretend spills are what we resent. Lying, cheating, thieves who confer are the cutthroats we are dealing with this time around.

You haven't signed a lease, no one has bothered you in the least. Or you are lying, have signed the lease, and are pissed that your ignorance in what the lease entailed has caught you by the short hairs. In either case, you don't know what you are talking about and are limited to gossiping about what other ignorant people have told you, or you have assumed from newspaper articles and whatnot.

Odd, considering that you were born in Appalachia and lived in Appalachia until you were old enough to flee, lol, you seem to have a real hard on for the good folks of Appalachia, never missing an opportunity to denigrate them, Lil Abner.
Are there other groups you resent as well?

I was born in Texas. My parents and grandparents were born in Appalachia. I was raised there from 1st grade to high school graduation.

I don't resent Appalachia. It is what it is. But you don't get to pretend that it is all someone else's or some other groups fault that you are the way you are, or that the consequences of your culturally reinforced limitations can''t be laid at directly at your feet.

 

[The Irish Ram]

And you don't get to pretend there are no consequences when dealing with lying cheating gas and oil companies. And apparently you do resent Appalachia and all of it's "limitations". You keep using your prejudice to try to condone your behavior. We can speak of your atrocities in Colorado if you prefer. Unable to hear the "gossip" they're spreading about greedy gas cos., I'll check and see if any of their court cases mirror the ones you've created here in limitation land.

What you hope for is that people don't do their homework, so when you get caught, you can lay the blame directly at our feet. Where did you get 13 spill Will? Texas? Your boss considers him a gas co. asset. And he is or he would have been fired after the 3 spill. Or the 7th. 9th, 12th. spill. How much money is he saving you by illegal dumping? And how much money are you paying him to do it?? How much of the owner's land have you destroyed in the process, and point to the contractual right that you believe you have to spill with impunity on land someone else owns.

You blaming locale, signing a lease, not signing a lease, to dumb to read a lease, interpretation of the lease, is the ploy your boss is using all over the country for keeping your profits AND ours. You deflecting corporate rape by blaming those being raped is typical and country wide. What you are doing is telling people you are going to make them wealthy and then keeping it all for yourselves.
Case in point, Don Fausner.( location: not Appalachia), was hoping to pay for all of his grand children's educations, but his royalty checks dropped 99 % from the first one to the next one. So were you errant in your "misc." deductions regarding the first check he got, oddly > @12% as per contractual agreement, or did it take you until his subsequent check to manufacture enough phoney deductions to keep 99% of his share of that sweet sweet sweet spot you pooled on his dairy farm? He SHOULD be wealthy. Instead, your boss is wealthier. Don should be the 21 century Jed Clampett. Sadly, you're 21 century thieves. He's not Faust. He's Grampa Fausner. And you're still Satan.

The leases aren't the problem dummy. Your bosses' direct defiance of the leases is the problem.
So, Jethro, what cultural limitations are you experiencing in Rifle, Co. or N. Dakota, Wyoming, Ok. N.J. N.Y. Kansas, ..................?

13 "opps" spills have nothing to do with the IQ of the land owner and everything to do with your blatant disregard for the land you lease.
Dumping your waste in a remote corn field instead of transporting it to a designated location, and stealing our royalties saves you time, and money. Do they confer with you before or after they get caught? Maybe getting advice from a RGR instead of a LWYR is part of their problem.

You seem to think that me signing a lease or not, is responsible for all of these breaches, when in truth, I'm just doing my homework. If I needed your money, I would have signed the lease. I've lived here quite comfortably without you intruding. There is an open offer, should I decide to let you "make me wealthy". And now, legal recourse should you decide help yourself to benefits you are not entitled to. And not signing a lease does not eliminate the problems you cause. When you poison the creek a mile upstream, my animals will still suffer the consequences. Any chance you boys might confer concerning a moral compass or the definition of good faith? lol.

And, there you go again with the holier than thou gas mentality. You don't made people wealthy, the land and diverse resources that we own makes us wealthy, and will continue to do so long after you succumb. We are the gas and oil owners. You're just a "renter". And an irresponsible one at that.


The United States District Court for the Southern District of West Virginia, in Jones, et al. v. Dominion Transmission, et al., approved a multi-million dollar settlement in favor of 25,000 oil and gas OWNERS < (in other words, us) to resolve a class action alleging that the company cheated them out of natural gas royalties. <(in other words, you. )The plaintiffs also claimed that the company improperly deducted post-production expenses from royalty payments.

Seems you have to settle no matter who you rob or where they live. There's Appalachia, and then there's et al:

In a class action suit entitled Lindauer et. al v. Williams Production RMT Company filed in Garfield County, Colorado, the plaintiffs alleged that Williams had not properly calculated royalty payments because it failed to fully account for proceeds that it received from the sale of gas and other products. The complaint also alleged that the company failed to refund amounts withheld from royalty payments to pay taxes. The parties settled.

In Gardner, et al. v. Shell Oil Co., an Oklahoma jury ordered Shell Oil Co. to pay millions to trustees of royalty owners for their share of a prolific oil well dug in the early-1970s. Shell did not include the income from this well in the calculations of net profits sent to the plaintiffs.

Maybe you should confer with someone that has a properly functioning royalty calculator. You keep getting it wrong, over and over and over..........

 

[The Irish Ram]

Holy cow Rggd, you may want to cap this well, because I did check, and there are endless court documents for the gathering, and crude behavior on the part of your boss everywhere! This isn't going to be productive for your reputation.

And I'm sure that the OP would rather concentrate on what good may come from what we have to offer, regardless of Big Oil's cutthroat tactics used to obtain it, and the government's holding it for ransom.

 

[RGR]

The leases aren't the problem dummy. Your bosses' direct defiance of the leases is the problem.

My boss doesn't sign leases. Or have interests in any. Anywhere. Nor do I. If either of us did, it could be construed as a conflict of interest under certain circumstances. Sorry. I would recommend finding whichever high school teacher taught you to read and give them a good ass whuppin for doing such a piss poor job, but I suppose it is too late for that.

So, Jethro, what cultural limitations are you experiencing in Rifle, Co. or N. Dakota, Wyoming, Ok. N.J. N.Y. Kansas, ..................?

None whatsoever. Some of the companies working in Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio right now are collecting workers from the western states because they are quite hardy when compared to the local labor force available.

 

[Mr. H.]

None whatsoever. Some of the companies working in Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio right now are collecting workers from the western states because they are quite hardy when compared to the local labor force available.

My brother is a well site geologist (Illinois) and is booked for months sitting Utica wells in Ohio.

$1,000/day. Not bad.

 

[westwall]

Fracking also brings small earthquakes and flammable water.

Still think it's a good idea?

Yes.

 

[American_Jihad]

Fracking also brings small earthquakes and flammable water.

Still think it's a good idea?

Yes.

He didn't get the memo on the fake flaming water, etc...


https://www.google.com/search?sourc...Check:+Truths+and+Myths+in+Anti-Fracking+Film

 

[Mr. H.]

Holy cow Rggd, you may want to cap this well, because I did check, and there are endless court documents for the gathering, and crude behavior on the part of your boss everywhere! This isn't going to be productive for your reputation.

And I'm sure that the OP would rather concentrate on what good may come from what we have to offer, regardless of Big Oil's cutthroat tactics used to obtain it, and the government's holding it for ransom.

Y'know what? You're pissed off because you, a relative, and/or someone you know fucked up. It's as simple as that.

"Big Oil" is a bit player in the U.S. Independents do the heavy hauling these days.

And by merely using the term "Big Oil" tells me that you're a goddamn moron.

 

[The Irish Ram]

In spite of the crooks we are forced to deal with, I still think it's a good idea too. There is no reason for this country to depend on any country but this one for it's needs. We have what we need right here. And we're doing our share.
But, there is also no need to steal it to boost big oil and gas bottom lines, and tax it until no one can afford it.

Nobody's water's flaming that I know of, but it's completely disappeared in some areas. The mini quakes are new.
Shale is brittle and easy to fracture. It's propped up by the gas and oil. When it's pillow is sucked out of an area, the shale shifts and causes little quakes. They're no big deal so far. It will settle.
We expect some environment impacts. Just not 13 of them.

Disaster du jour:
Bracewell on fire.

 

[Mr. H.]

To loosely quote Frank Zappa...

Ram it up your Irish poop chute.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Sorry Pops, no pissed off anybody. No relative or personal disasters yet. And you just compared signing a lease with f*****g up. lol. And I don't know any of the people suing for their royalty checks. Maybe the courts are just making them all up.

I think you're pissed off because there are 2 sides to every story, and you just want there to be one.
Since you're here, what do you think about all of those bit players reneging on their royalty payments to the owners of the gas, that you think you're entitled to?

 

[Mr. H.]

Sorry Pops, no pissed off anybody. No relative or personal disasters yet. And you just compared signing a lease with f*****g up. lol. And I don't know any of the people suing for their royalty checks. Maybe the courts are just making them all up.

I think you're pissed off because there are 2 sides to every story, and you just want there to be one.
Since you're here, what do you think about all of those bit players reneging on their royalty payments to the owners of the gas, that you think you're entitled to?

I'm pissed off because I've spent the last 36 years of my life fending off stupid fucks like you. Have a nice day, stupid fuck.

 

[Mr. H.]

"How do you "make it go".