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The 7.65% is a tax on income. That's why they multiply your income b y 7.65% to figure out how much you owe - unless you make more than 106K, in which case your capped.
I calculated your daughters tax payment based on the IRS tax tables.
The withholding rate is set by the employee- you can tell your employer how much to withhold by the number of exemptions and any additional amount you want withheld.
What you actually owe is a completely different story.
whereas FICA is a tax, it is not deemed a tax for purposes in this debate.
Read that again, Jarhead - and ask yourself if perhaps the problem here is people denying the obvious: That a tax on earned income is an earned income tax, no matter what name you chose to apply to it.
Others may attempt to find a distinction between an income tax and a tax on income, but that's just buying into the DC speak.
The 7.65% is a tax on income. That's why they multiply your income b y 7.65% to figure out how much you owe - unless you make more than 106K, in which case your capped.
I calculated your daughters tax payment based on the IRS tax tables.
The withholding rate is set by the employee- you can tell your employer how much to withhold by the number of exemptions and any additional amount you want withheld.
What you actually owe is a completely different story.
whereas FICA is a tax, it is not deemed a tax for purposes in this debate.
Read that again, Jarhead - and ask yourself if perhaps the problem here is people denying the obvious: That a tax on earned income is an earned income tax, no matter what name you chose to apply to it.
Others may attempt to find a distinction between an income tax and a tax on payroll income, but that's just buying into the DC speak.
whereas FICA is a tax, it is not deemed a tax for purposes in this debate.
Read that again, Jarhead - and ask yourself if perhaps the problem here is people denying the obvious: That a tax on earned income is an earned income tax, no matter what name you chose to apply to it.
Others may attempt to find a distinction between an income tax and a tax on payroll income, but that's just buying into the DC speak.
I understand....
But for the purposes of a fair debate you need to take into consideration that FICA is a separate deduction...and is a set rate.....and if we include that in the debate then you must also include SUTA and city and disibility and medicade...and here in NYC, MTA tax.....
I was simply trying to get the two of you on the same page.....more time was wasted on "definition" than was wasted on the crux of the debate itself....but unfotunately, that seems to be the MO for this board.
Read that again, Jarhead - and ask yourself if perhaps the problem here is people denying the obvious: That a tax on earned income is an earned income tax, no matter what name you chose to apply to it.
Others may attempt to find a distinction between an income tax and a tax on payroll income, but that's just buying into the DC speak.
I understand....
But for the purposes of a fair debate you need to take into consideration that FICA is a separate deduction...and is a set rate.....and if we include that in the debate then you must also include SUTA and city and disibility and medicade...and here in NYC, MTA tax.....
I was simply trying to get the two of you on the same page.....more time was wasted on "definition" than was wasted on the crux of the debate itself....but unfotunately, that seems to be the MO for this board.
Thanks for trying. That's what most don't get. You don't get any of that 7.65% (actually 15.3%) back until you reach retirement age. That 7.65 does not get refunded to you until you are old enough to collect Social Security and Medicare it is never counted for part of your annual refund.
I understand....
But for the purposes of a fair debate you need to take into consideration that FICA is a separate deduction...and is a set rate.....and if we include that in the debate then you must also include SUTA and city and disibility and medicade...and here in NYC, MTA tax.....
I was simply trying to get the two of you on the same page.....more time was wasted on "definition" than was wasted on the crux of the debate itself....but unfotunately, that seems to be the MO for this board.
Thanks for trying. That's what most don't get. You don't get any of that 7.65% (actually 15.3%) back until you reach retirement age. That 7.65 does not get refunded to you until you are old enough to collect Social Security and Medicare it is never counted for part of your annual refund.
well...in all fairness....he was correct as well. FICA is a federal tax....but as you said...it is not deemed as a refundable federal tax nor is it calculated based on yoru income or deductions. Yes, it maxes out at 106K...but up to that point, it is what it is regardl;ess of how many exemptions/deductions you have.
You know...I recall when it maxed out at 48K.....am I showing my age?
Her withholding was only 650.00, I do her payroll.
He is talking about payroll taxes that employers are required to pay for each employee.
No, I'm not. I calculated the payroll tax by multiplying the earned income by 7.65%. I calculated the federal income tax from IRS tax tables.
If you wanted to actually contribute, you could do the same.
whereas FICA is a tax, it is not deemed a tax for purposes in this debate.
Read that again, Jarhead - and ask yourself if perhaps the problem here is people denying the obvious: That a tax on earned income is an earned income tax, no matter what name you chose to apply to it.
Others may attempt to find a distinction between an income tax and a tax on income, but that's just buying into the DC speak.
I cannot believe you can be so dense. This is the problem with lefties, they get something in their head and they can't even see the truth. The 7.65% is NOT INCOME TAX, it's FICA=SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.
He is talking about payroll taxes that employers are required to pay for each employee.
No, I'm not. I calculated the payroll tax by multiplying the earned income by 7.65%. I calculated the federal income tax from IRS tax tables.
If you wanted to actually contribute, you could do the same.
You are either being obtuse, or you are simply ignorant.
I am going to go with obtuse.
Ever hear of deductions? It doesn't matter one iota what a persons rate of taxation is...what matters is what taxes they paid in - AFTER ALL OF THEIR DEDUCTIONS....
Read that again, Jarhead - and ask yourself if perhaps the problem here is people denying the obvious: That a tax on earned income is an earned income tax, no matter what name you chose to apply to it.
Others may attempt to find a distinction between an income tax and a tax on income, but that's just buying into the DC speak.
I cannot believe you can be so dense. This is the problem with lefties, they get something in their head and they can't even see the truth. The 7.65% is NOT INCOME TAX, it's FICA=SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.
I can not believe you can be so sold on a cheap political stunt.
The 7.65% removed from your paycheck each period is a 7.65% tax on your income.
A tax on your income is, by definition, an income tax. It's only the brainwashing of DC elites that has managed to convince anyone otherwise.
It always amuses me how economic right-wingers, in constructing these demonstrations to show that lower-income people are undertaxed, always find some excuse for not counting Social Security taxes.
It's money. It comes out of one's pay. It goes to the government. IT'S A TAX.
Any calculation of people's total federal tax burden that does not include Social Security tax will be wrong. The lower the person's income, the more wrong it will be, because the more of the person's total tax burden will be represented by Social Security tax rather than income tax.
To say that income tax "counts" and other taxes don't is rubbish. A tax is a tax is a tax. And that plumber pays more than 6.5% in Social Security tax ALONE.
Now, that doesn't mean Obama wasn't stretching the truth in saying that millionaires, on average, pay a lower income percentage than plumbers in taxes. Some do (those whose income all comes from capital gains), but many don't.
However, it does mean that even if Obama told a "bald faced lie," the OP told a bigger one.
I cannot believe you can be so dense. This is the problem with lefties, they get something in their head and they can't even see the truth. The 7.65% is NOT INCOME TAX, it's FICA=SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.
I can not believe you can be so sold on a cheap political stunt.
The 7.65% removed from your paycheck each period is a 7.65% tax on your income.
A tax on your income is, by definition, an income tax. It's only the brainwashing of DC elites that has managed to convince anyone otherwise.
yes....you are correct. But as I said, this debate was not about definition...it is about the specific deduction referred to as federal withholding....FICA is not included in that for a valid reason...becuase it is NOT to be calculated based on deductions...it is based on gross income..
And this debate was about income tax that is calculated by deductions.
You are just being a ball buster...and pretty good at that may I add!
I can not believe you can be so sold on a cheap political stunt.
The 7.65% removed from your paycheck each period is a 7.65% tax on your income.
A tax on your income is, by definition, an income tax. It's only the brainwashing of DC elites that has managed to convince anyone otherwise.
yes....you are correct. But as I said, this debate was not about definition...it is about the specific deduction referred to as federal withholding....FICA is not included in that for a valid reason...becuase it is NOT to be calculated based on deductions...it is based on gross income..
And this debate was about income tax that is calculated by deductions.
You are just being a ball buster...and pretty good at that may I add!
Happy Friday, Jarhead! I'm really not just trying to be a ballbuster. When people say that 50% of the population pays no income tax, it's a great rallying cry but it's simply not true. The only way it can be true is if you reclassify a tax on income as something other than an income tax, which is exactly what many in Washington would like you to do.
FICA is, by design, a regressive income tax. Instead of admitting that we have a regressive income tax people dress it up with all sorts of fancy names like "contributions".
I contribute to my Roth IRA. I pay FICA.
Anyway, always a fun discussion.
It always amuses me how economic right-wingers, in constructing these demonstrations to show that lower-income people are undertaxed, always find some excuse for not counting Social Security taxes.
It's money. It comes out of one's pay. It goes to the government. IT'S A TAX.
Any calculation of people's total federal tax burden that does not include Social Security tax will be wrong. The lower the person's income, the more wrong it will be, because the more of the person's total tax burden will be represented by Social Security tax rather than income tax.
To say that income tax "counts" and other taxes don't is rubbish. A tax is a tax is a tax. And that plumber pays more than 6.5% in Social Security tax ALONE.
Now, that doesn't mean Obama wasn't stretching the truth in saying that millionaires, on average, pay a lower income percentage than plumbers in taxes. Some do (those whose income all comes from capital gains), but many don't.
However, it does mean that even if Obama told a "bald faced lie," the OP told a bigger one.
the OP was not telling a lie...
He compared apples to apples...
Look...whatever...yes, FICA is a tax but it is constant with all people......thus why it does not need to be included in calculations..
the OP was not telling a lie...
He compared apples to apples...
He deliberately presented misleading statistics so as to communicate an untruth. That is most certainly a lie.
Look...whatever...yes, FICA is a tax but it is constant with all people......thus why it does not need to be included in calculations..
Horseshit. You know and I know and everyone knows that the one and only reason why FICA is excluded by economic right-wingers in these deliberately deceptive calculations is to make it look as if lower-income people pay less in taxes than they really do.
And no, it's NOT the same for everyone.
If I make $50k in earned income, I pay 7.5% of my income in FICA.
If I make $200k in earned income, I pay 4.01% of my income in FICA.
If I make $60k in earned income and $500k in capital gains, I pay 0.8% of my income in FICA.
If I make $10 million all in capital gains, I pay zero percent of my income in FICA.
All of these claims about lower-income people paying no taxes or almost no taxes or negative taxes that exclude FICA from the calculation are lies, plain and simple.
the OP was not telling a lie...
He compared apples to apples...
He deliberately presented misleading statistics so as to communicate an untruth. That is most certainly a lie.
Look...whatever...yes, FICA is a tax but it is constant with all people......thus why it does not need to be included in calculations..
Horseshit. You know and I know and everyone knows that the one and only reason why FICA is excluded by economic right-wingers in these deliberately deceptive calculations is to make it look as if lower-income people pay less in taxes than they really do.
And no, it's NOT the same for everyone.
If I make $50k in earned income, I pay 7.5% of my income in FICA.
If I make $200k in earned income, I pay 4.01% of my income in FICA.
If I make $60k in earned income and $500k in capital gains, I pay 0.8% of my income in FICA.
If I make $10 million all in capital gains, I pay zero percent of my income in FICA.
All of these claims about lower-income people paying no taxes or almost no taxes or negative taxes that exclude FICA from the calculation are lies, plain and simple.
It always amuses me how economic right-wingers, in constructing these demonstrations to show that lower-income people are undertaxed, always find some excuse for not counting Social Security taxes.
It's money. It comes out of one's pay. It goes to the government. IT'S A TAX.
Any calculation of people's total federal tax burden that does not include Social Security tax will be wrong. The lower the person's income, the more wrong it will be, because the more of the person's total tax burden will be represented by Social Security tax rather than income tax.
To say that income tax "counts" and other taxes don't is rubbish. A tax is a tax is a tax. And that plumber pays more than 6.5% in Social Security tax ALONE.
Now, that doesn't mean Obama wasn't stretching the truth in saying that millionaires, on average, pay a lower income percentage than plumbers in taxes. Some do (those whose income all comes from capital gains), but many don't.
However, it does mean that even if Obama told a "bald faced lie," the OP told a bigger one.
