Trump Will Not Pull Out of NAFTA

[Toro]

This is one promise I'm glad he's not keeping.

I would expect a renegotiation, though changes will likely be minor.

WASHINGTON—The Trump administration said it was no longer considering pulling out of the North American Free Trade Agreement, following a day of intense lobbying from business leaders and lawmakers who rallied to quash internal White House discussion of the prospect.

The White House said in a statement issued late Wednesday night that President Donald Trump had called his Mexican and Canadian counterparts following widespread reports he was considering pulling out of the 23-year-old pact that stitches the three economies tightly together.

In the calls, “President Trump agreed not to terminate Nafta at this time,” the statement said, adding that three countries would proceed soon, as expected, to begin talks over renegotiating the agreement.

The daylong public zigzag over trade illustrated both the confusion that often marks Trump administration policy making, as well as the battles inside his administration pitting economic nationalists against top business leaders he has tapped to run his economic team. The former faction had been pushing for the Nafta withdrawal threat as a big hammer to force concessions from the two trading partners, while the latter has tried to temper Mr. Trump’s periodic attempts to pick fights with allies over trade. ...

“Withdrawing from Nafta would have disastrous consequences for U.S. businesses and workers, benefiting our competitors in Europe and Asia, including China,” said Joshua Bolten, chairman of the Business Roundtable, which represents some of the biggest U.S. firms.

The agriculture industry, one of the biggest beneficiaries of Nafta, also pulled out the stops to block the move. “There are some things that sound good politically but are potentially dangerous in the real world,” said Kent Bacus, an official with the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, whose members rely heavily on exports across both borders. “For the U.S. beef industry, withdrawing from Nafta is one of the most dangerous moves we can make at this time.”​

Trump Drops Nafta Pullout Threat

 

[shockedcanadian]

If NAFTA isn't drastically altered, especially in regards to dealing with abuses by government against NAFTA, it will be difficult to realize the growth he wants. Canada is FAR more concerned about the prospect of border tax and being held to account as we see businesses potentially flocking for the U.S from Canada. Everything from our police forces to social and entitlements for our career politicians will be hit hard if Trump chooses to battle market vs market. We have little to offer the world other than resources.

If he taxes the border and forces fair trade rather than free trade, the U.S can accumulate the revenue they need for their aggressive tax cutting program. If not, he will not only break a campaign promise, but the U.S economy will continue to sputter and debt levels will continue to rise. The abuses by governments in Canada and Mexico are too extreme for U.S businesses to overcome simply with prayers and wishful thinking. You aren't competing against Canadian companies, you are competing against the Canadian government, you just don't know it.

Canada and Mexico will use backroom channels and business connections to try and slow down and deny Trump in this battle. They want to see it continue until hope he loses seats in the mid-term and drag out the negotiation until nothing gets done. It will cost Trump a re-election and ensure nothing changes in the U.S worker exploitation that is currently occurring.

If he pulled out of NAFTA, it forces them to negotiate and correct the problems within six months. Canada and Mexico don't want that since they have no intention of letting NAFTA go away, it's too good for us. The bottom line is, why so much fear? Didn't businesses survive without NAFTA? Drastic changes are needed, you can be sure of this.

 

[L.K.Eder]

what is a nafta?

 

[gipper]

He is getting more and more like Hillary every day, yet his followers still believe in him and his opponents still hate him. Go figure?

 

[Toro]

Republicans have, for the most part, been the biggest proponents of free trade and NAFTA over the past several decades. Most Republicans voted for NAFTA and most Democrats voted against it.

H.R. 3450 (103rd): North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act -- House Vote #575 -- Nov 17, 1993
H.R. 3450 (103rd): North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act -- Senate Vote #395 -- Nov 20, 1993

Negotiations for the precursor of NAFTA began under Reagan, and Reagan envisioned a much more integrated North American market than what NAFTA ever became.

 

[toomuchtime_]

This is one promise I'm glad he's not keeping.

I would expect a renegotiation, though changes will likely be minor.

WASHINGTON—The Trump administration said it was no longer considering pulling out of the North American Free Trade Agreement, following a day of intense lobbying from business leaders and lawmakers who rallied to quash internal White House discussion of the prospect.

The White House said in a statement issued late Wednesday night that President Donald Trump had called his Mexican and Canadian counterparts following widespread reports he was considering pulling out of the 23-year-old pact that stitches the three economies tightly together.

In the calls, “President Trump agreed not to terminate Nafta at this time,” the statement said, adding that three countries would proceed soon, as expected, to begin talks over renegotiating the agreement.

The daylong public zigzag over trade illustrated both the confusion that often marks Trump administration policy making, as well as the battles inside his administration pitting economic nationalists against top business leaders he has tapped to run his economic team. The former faction had been pushing for the Nafta withdrawal threat as a big hammer to force concessions from the two trading partners, while the latter has tried to temper Mr. Trump’s periodic attempts to pick fights with allies over trade. ...

“Withdrawing from Nafta would have disastrous consequences for U.S. businesses and workers, benefiting our competitors in Europe and Asia, including China,” said Joshua Bolten, chairman of the Business Roundtable, which represents some of the biggest U.S. firms.

The agriculture industry, one of the biggest beneficiaries of Nafta, also pulled out the stops to block the move. “There are some things that sound good politically but are potentially dangerous in the real world,” said Kent Bacus, an official with the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, whose members rely heavily on exports across both borders. “For the U.S. beef industry, withdrawing from Nafta is one of the most dangerous moves we can make at this time.”​

Trump Drops Nafta Pullout Threat

Actually he said he would not withdraw from NAFTA at this time, and with all he has on his plate right now, it makes sense to defer that decision.

 

[Toro]

Actually he said he would not withdraw from NAFTA at this time, and with all he has on his plate right now, it makes sense to defer that decision.

He's not going to pull out of NAFTA. The guy is backtracking on many of his promises because he is dealing with the reality of being President as opposed to being a candidate where you can say anything on the campaign trail.

In fact, there aren't going to be many - if any - big changes.

There will probably be changes in procurement laws and the dispute settlement mechanism, but that most likely will be it.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Actually he said he would not withdraw from NAFTA at this time, and with all he has on his plate right now, it makes sense to defer that decision.

He's not going to pull out of NAFTA. The guy is backtracking on many of his promises because he is dealing with the reality of being President as opposed to being a candidate where you can say anything on the campaign trail.

In fact, there aren't going to be many - if any - big changes.

There will probably be changes in procurement laws and the dispute settlement mechanism, but that most likely will be it.

He hasn't gotten things done as quickly as many had hoped he would, but he hasn't backtracked on anything.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Republicans have, for the most part, been the biggest proponents of free trade and NAFTA over the past several decades. Most Republicans voted for NAFTA and most Democrats voted against it.

H.R. 3450 (103rd): North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act -- House Vote #575 -- Nov 17, 1993
H.R. 3450 (103rd): North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act -- Senate Vote #395 -- Nov 20, 1993

Negotiations for the precursor of NAFTA began under Reagan, and Reagan envisioned a much more integrated North American market than what NAFTA ever became.

Yes, I agree with you. As a free market, laissez-faire economist I do agree with free trade. Unfortunately I'm fully aware of the abuses that Canada engages in with NAFTA. As a quick indicator, Canada is the most sued nation in the NAFTA grievance process, there are 1000x more abuses that go on within our system that are either not challenged or not known.

If NAFTA were about freedom of capital movement, competition for the best and brightest, most ingenuous developers and marketing initiatives, than of course NAFTA would be great. It isn't however. For Canada it's been a way to steal job from America, directly through payments as GM received from Ontario and Canada to the tune of $400M to keep jobs, and also Ford granted a couple hundred million for 300 new jobs in Ottawa. This has nothing to do with know-how and skillset, it was a corporate decision to keep these jobs from Americans because Canada outright paid them! Cash. A bribe of sorts.

I know that Canada enters American corporations and tries to weaken them internally in an effort to help Canadian businesses compete against them. This means tampering with HR departments, executive positions, placing operatives high up in businesses. Is Canada stealing intelligence and technology from these businesses? I can't say one way or another but it's certainly a consideration. Doing what they do I can't imagine they wouldn't excessively go beyond anything we might imagine since there aren't consequences for them actively operating within these businesses.

Bottom line: NAFTA is being abuses by the Canadian government (and the Mexican government I imagine). Canada hasn't been a real ally to the U.S since the 1980's and before that you had to go back to the 1940's. These agreement needs a drastic overhaul, one that punishes abusers who exploit their government powers. There's no mention in the US media about New Zealand and Australia coming out the very next day agreeing with America that Canada breaks the law with their dairy practices. Instead, people act as if Trump and Wilbur Ross just fell off the turnip truck.

NAFTA as Mulroney and Reagan envisioned it, it not the NAFTA of today. Canada is far too much of an interventionalist, centralized government to allow free market forces to reign supreme.

 

[Toro]

Republicans have, for the most part, been the biggest proponents of free trade and NAFTA over the past several decades. Most Republicans voted for NAFTA and most Democrats voted against it.

H.R. 3450 (103rd): North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act -- House Vote #575 -- Nov 17, 1993
H.R. 3450 (103rd): North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act -- Senate Vote #395 -- Nov 20, 1993

Negotiations for the precursor of NAFTA began under Reagan, and Reagan envisioned a much more integrated North American market than what NAFTA ever became.

Yes, I agree with you. As a free market, laissez-faire economist I do agree with free trade. Unfortunately I'm fully aware of the abuses that Canada engages in with NAFTA. As a quick indicator, Canada is the most sued nation in the NAFTA grievance process, there are 1000x more abuses that go on within our system that are either not challenged or not known.

If NAFTA were about freedom of capital movement, competition for the best and brightest, most ingenuous developers and marketing initiatives, than of course NAFTA would be great. It isn't however. For Canada it's been a way to steal job from America, directly through payments as GM received from Ontario and Canada to the tune of $400M to keep jobs, and also Ford granted a couple hundred million for 300 new jobs in Ottawa. This has nothing to do with know-how and skillset, it was a corporate decision to keep these jobs from Americans because Canada outright paid them! Cash. A bribe of sorts.

I know that Canada enters American corporations and tries to weaken them internally in an effort to help Canadian businesses compete against them. This means tampering with HR departments, executive positions, placing operatives high up in businesses. Is Canada stealing intelligence and technology from these businesses? I can't say one way or another but it's certainly a consideration. Doing what they do I can't imagine they wouldn't excessively go beyond anything we might imagine since there aren't consequences for them actively operating within these businesses.

Bottom line: NAFTA is being abuses by the Canadian government (and the Mexican government I imagine). Canada hasn't been a real ally to the U.S since the 1980's and before that you had to go back to the 1940's. These agreement needs a drastic overhaul, one that punishes abusers who exploit their government powers. There's no mention in the US media about New Zealand and Australia coming out the very next day agreeing with America that Canada breaks the law with their dairy practices. Instead, people act as if Trump and Wilbur Ross just fell off the turnip truck.

NAFTA as Mulroney and Reagan envisioned it, it not the NAFTA of today. Canada is far too much of an interventionalist, centralized government to allow free market forces to reign supreme.

Dude, the American governments at all levels do the exact same thing. That stuff happens all the time down here. There are corporations where that is a part of their corporate strategy. I'm not sure what Kool-Aid you are drinking, but thinking that this is something only Canada and Mexico does is just fantasy. What do you think Trump's "deal" with Carrier was all about?

As for your conspiracy about Canada "infiltrating" American corporations, I don't even know what to say. That's pretty strange, given the branch-plant nature of Canadian manufacturing.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Republicans have, for the most part, been the biggest proponents of free trade and NAFTA over the past several decades. Most Republicans voted for NAFTA and most Democrats voted against it.

H.R. 3450 (103rd): North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act -- House Vote #575 -- Nov 17, 1993
H.R. 3450 (103rd): North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act -- Senate Vote #395 -- Nov 20, 1993

Negotiations for the precursor of NAFTA began under Reagan, and Reagan envisioned a much more integrated North American market than what NAFTA ever became.

Yes, I agree with you. As a free market, laissez-faire economist I do agree with free trade. Unfortunately I'm fully aware of the abuses that Canada engages in with NAFTA. As a quick indicator, Canada is the most sued nation in the NAFTA grievance process, there are 1000x more abuses that go on within our system that are either not challenged or not known.

If NAFTA were about freedom of capital movement, competition for the best and brightest, most ingenuous developers and marketing initiatives, than of course NAFTA would be great. It isn't however. For Canada it's been a way to steal job from America, directly through payments as GM received from Ontario and Canada to the tune of $400M to keep jobs, and also Ford granted a couple hundred million for 300 new jobs in Ottawa. This has nothing to do with know-how and skillset, it was a corporate decision to keep these jobs from Americans because Canada outright paid them! Cash. A bribe of sorts.

I know that Canada enters American corporations and tries to weaken them internally in an effort to help Canadian businesses compete against them. This means tampering with HR departments, executive positions, placing operatives high up in businesses. Is Canada stealing intelligence and technology from these businesses? I can't say one way or another but it's certainly a consideration. Doing what they do I can't imagine they wouldn't excessively go beyond anything we might imagine since there aren't consequences for them actively operating within these businesses.

Bottom line: NAFTA is being abuses by the Canadian government (and the Mexican government I imagine). Canada hasn't been a real ally to the U.S since the 1980's and before that you had to go back to the 1940's. These agreement needs a drastic overhaul, one that punishes abusers who exploit their government powers. There's no mention in the US media about New Zealand and Australia coming out the very next day agreeing with America that Canada breaks the law with their dairy practices. Instead, people act as if Trump and Wilbur Ross just fell off the turnip truck.

NAFTA as Mulroney and Reagan envisioned it, it not the NAFTA of today. Canada is far too much of an interventionalist, centralized government to allow free market forces to reign supreme.

Dude, the American governments at all levels do the exact same thing. That stuff happens all the time down here. There are corporations where that is a part of their corporate strategy. I'm not sure what Kool-Aid you are drinking, but thinking that this is something only Canada and Mexico does is just fantasy. What do you think Trump's "deal" with Carrier was all about?

Canada gave $400M for 4000 jobs that were moving to Michigan and Ohio. You read $400M going to Carrier? That's first. Second, Carrier is an American company, GM is an American company. We are greasing a foreign business. Just one example of many which we engage in, all on the backs of future taxpayers, and, by the way, this might shock you to know it wasn't even announced by our government, it was the Detroit Free Press that blew the whistle on Canada doing this! That's Canadian democracy. No transparency or accountability.

Third. Canada enters corporations and undermines that foreign business. Especially if it's American or European. They will push interest in unions among other very nefarious and dirty tactics.

Canada has nothing without American businesses. Is the American economy so dependant on Canada for jobs? LOL not in a 1000 years. So don't let it happen to you because of an "agreement" (which we regularly break).