Trump thinks he can change the Constitution via EO

[danielpalos]

So, they are not subject to our laws, if one kills someone, they cannot be arrested and charged with a crime?

If they can, then they are in the jurisdiction of the US.

No this jurisdiction is that of the mother.

If they commit murder then they will be tried as murderers.

the mother was in the US.

She was in the US illegally. She didn't have permission to be in the US.

Whatever her nationality is that the jurisdiction for the kids nationality.

You are a liar. The Supreme Court has held that jurisdiction means they are subject to the laws of a state. Clearly even people who are here illegally are subject to the jurisdiction of the state they reside in.

Could you possibly cite that particular ruling?

Jurisdiction is a sovereignty issue.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Source: CNBC.COM original story on Axios
Trump wants to sign an order to end birthright citizenship, setting up a constitutional battle

"President Donald Trump is planning to terminate birthright citizenship, according to a report by Axios, potentially setting up another stand-off between the U.S. president and the courts.

Trump plans to sign an executive order that would remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S. soil, he said Monday, according to Axios which used the exclusive interview to promote a new documentary series called "Axios on HBO."

"This would be the most dramatic move yet in Trump's hardline immigration campaign, this time targeting 'anchor babies' and 'chain migration'," Axios said in its report.


Trump's comments come as he continues to push a hard anti-immigration line ahead of the midterms this month, and many experts will highlight that it's not within the president's power to change birthright citizenship.

"It was always told to me that you needed a constitutional amendment. Guess what? You don't," Trump reportedly said, declaring he can do it by using an executive order.

Trump said he had run the idea of ending birthright citizenship by his counsel and plans to proceed, despite likely controversy. However, during the same interview Trump expressed surprise that Axios knew about his secret plan: "I didn't think anybody knew that but me. I thought I was the only one," he said."

Let the fun, games and gnashing of teeth begin.

This should be an interesting court battle if President Twitter follows through with the Executive Order since the courts have never ruled on the question of whether or not the 14th Amendment applies to illegal immigrants or foreigners with temporary legal status.

Personally I don't think he's going to win this battle but I guess we'll see.

"May you live in interesting times" -- Chinese Curse

The key statement that SCOTUS will have to interpret is this:
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States."

The question regarding "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"
Trump wants to end birthright citizenship — here's what the law says about that

Now the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1952, the basic body of US immigration law, also says a "person born in the United States who is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States is a U.S. citizen at birth."
This though was a Congressional act signed by the president at that time.
Again... the key phrase "who is subject to the jurisdiction".

Exactly what does the "jurisdiction" mean?

Well I'm sure this will be the KEY element in the SCOTUS ruling, i.e. a person born or naturalized in the United States is "subject to the (jurisdiction)" what is
this "jurisdiction"?
Jurisdiction: Original, Supreme Court | Federal Judicial Center

Yup and because these illegals are Mexican or whatever nationality they belong to jurisdiction is the key.

They aren't American they are in the jurisdiction of whatever country they come from. That is the key. Jurisdiction.

If immigrants were not under our jurisdiction, the courts would not be able to prosecute them. If they are on U.S. soil or under our flag / control, they are "within the jurisdiction."

Yeah, you misunderstand the use of "jurisdiction" in this case. It does not simply refer to being held accountable to everyday laws while you're in the country, because the same holds true for our citizens when they go abroad, but they're still OUR citizens.

The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction of" was meant specifically to include freed slaves and their descendants, and specifically to EXCLUDE people whose primary allegiance was not to the United States. At the time of the writing, they were thinking primarily of Native Americans - who are considered to be subject to tribal jurisdiction - and the offspring of people who were here for purposes other than becoming part of this country, such as perhaps soldiers in another nation's military or diplomats from other countries. Under their interpretation, according to their own writings, that would also include people who are not legal residents of the country.

That is not true. It does not mention slaves. Lincoln's AG never mentioned slaves. The Supreme Court has held that jurisdiction means subject to the laws of the state. Diplomats are not subject to the jurisdiction of the state.

Here is the definition of jurisdiction. nowhere is it defined by allegiance to any state.

1 : the power, right, or authority to interpret and apply the law a matter that falls within the court's jurisdiction

2a : the authority of a sovereign power to govern or legislate

b : the power or right to exercise authority : control

3 : the limits or territory within which authority may be exercised

Doesn't have to mention slaves to have been written in response to their situation. And last time I checked, the Attorney General does not write the laws. He doesn't even intepret them. He enforces them according to how he's told to do so. We'll deal with your assertion that "The Supreme Court has held" if and when it becomes proven fact rather than your delusional belief that I'm going to assume you're capable of being right about the sky being blue, let alone anything else.

But don't think I'm not glad that you finally learned what a dictionary does and where to find one.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


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The 14th was written for freed slaves. This is about illegals having children in the US, not the same thing. If it is, then the Supreme Court can rule that way. I was initially thinking it was flat out wrong, but in noting cases based on the 14th, none involve illegals or their offspring.

Nowhere are slaves mentioned in the 14th Amendment. Again Lincoln's AG had a different interpretation of the law than you do.

"They didn't explicitly mention slaves, so how can you possibly know that the biggest concern on their minds right after the Civil War wasn't giving citizenship to the children of illegals?!"

"Context" is clearly just a word in your newly-discovered dictionary to you.

 

[candycorn]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


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When you started this thread…did you honestly expect the trump supporters to support this suspension of Constitutional rights as much as they did? I figured this would be a bridge too far and if it actually happens, (which I doubt) I think you’ll see an actual backlash IRL.

I am not one bit surprised. I have said many times that before he is done Trump will float a Single Payer plan and since it came from Trump all his sheep will support it.


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I’m mildly surprised.

 

[danielpalos]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

The 14th was written for freed slaves. This is about illegals having children in the US, not the same thing. If it is, then the Supreme Court can rule that way. I was initially thinking it was flat out wrong, but in noting cases based on the 14th, none involve illegals or their offspring.

Nowhere are slaves mentioned in the 14th Amendment. Again Lincoln's AG had a different interpretation of the law than you do.

"They didn't explicitly mention slaves, so how can you possibly know that the biggest concern on their minds right after the Civil War wasn't giving citizenship to the children of illegals?!"

"Context" is clearly just a word in your newly-discovered dictionary to you.

natural born is the norm, in the US.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I will bet you $20.00 Trump could do it by Executive order or through Congress...….

Now prove your point from your previous point...…..

Ok, you are on. I bet that Trump cannot change the Constitution by EO. You are betting that he can.

This is correct...……

Note: I didn't say he would do it because that wouldn't be Permanent.

But the $20.00 bet stands that it is possible....

After you bet I will explain How I can prove it...……..

If it is not permanent it does not matter.

It does if your real goal is to force a national conversation on the subject, followed by an official ruling from the Supreme Court on it.

Or if your goal is to swing a few votes his way


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Hey, far be it from me to ask you to get your head out of your ass and see something beyond partisan politics. After all, that steadfast obsession on the part of you and your fellow useful idiots has brought such handsome dividends to the rest of us.

So by all means, remain oblivious to any big pictures.

 

[dudmuck]

Did you know?

Fun fact: you're a fucknut who knows less about the law than my dog does about particle physics.

1) Donald Trump, Barron's father, IS an American citizen.

2) Melania Trump was a legal resident married to an American citizen, and in the process of becoming a naturalized citizen. That's obviously different - well, obvious to anyone who isn't you - from someone violating our laws.

3) You're still a fucknut.

Have we seen Trump's birth certificate? Orangutans are found only in the rain forests of the Southeast Asian islands of Borneo and Sumatra.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Did you know?

Fun fact: you're a fucknut who knows less about the law than my dog does about particle physics.

1) Donald Trump, Barron's father, IS an American citizen.

2) Melania Trump was a legal resident married to an American citizen, and in the process of becoming a naturalized citizen. That's obviously different - well, obvious to anyone who isn't you - from someone violating our laws.

3) You're still a fucknut.

Have we seen Trump's birth certificate? Orangutans are found only in the rain forests of the Southeast Asian islands of Borneo and Sumatra.

Man, if that was supposed to be your proof that you're not a fucknut, you are in DEEP trouble.

 

[dudmuck]

Did you know?

Fun fact: you're a fucknut who knows less about the law than my dog does about particle physics.

1) Donald Trump, Barron's father, IS an American citizen.

2) Melania Trump was a legal resident married to an American citizen, and in the process of becoming a naturalized citizen. That's obviously different - well, obvious to anyone who isn't you - from someone violating our laws.

3) You're still a fucknut.

Have we seen Trump's birth certificate? Orangutans are found only in the rain forests of the Southeast Asian islands of Borneo and Sumatra.

Man, if that was supposed to be your proof that you're not a fucknut, you are in DEEP trouble.

Lighten up, it just halloween.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Did you know?

Fun fact: you're a fucknut who knows less about the law than my dog does about particle physics.

1) Donald Trump, Barron's father, IS an American citizen.

2) Melania Trump was a legal resident married to an American citizen, and in the process of becoming a naturalized citizen. That's obviously different - well, obvious to anyone who isn't you - from someone violating our laws.

3) You're still a fucknut.

Have we seen Trump's birth certificate? Orangutans are found only in the rain forests of the Southeast Asian islands of Borneo and Sumatra.

Man, if that was supposed to be your proof that you're not a fucknut, you are in DEEP trouble.

Lighten up, it just halloween.

If you're flattering yourself that I'm taking YOU seriously, the fucknuttery is just escalating.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The Supreme Court will welcome the opportunity to limit birthright citizenship. It is the only way to end the absurdity of birth tourism.

 

[Kittymom1026]

All you libtards welshed on the election...…..

Later Tard...……….

Post a link to one doing that here or you’re lying....

You are libtarded….

We all know you lie, cheat and WELSH...……….

LOL

If that were true, it would have been easy for you to link one doing that here.

Your inability to do so demonstrates a) you’re a loser; b) you’re a liar; and c) you will welsh if you lose that bet.

Only a retard like yourself would need a link to know the sun comes up in the morning.

We are WINNING...…….

You libtards are having your ass kicked up around your ears by TRUMP...

Bite that tard...……...

LOLOL

What a pathetically weak bluff, welsher-to-be. If you could have posted a link to even a single Liberal here welshing, you would have. You don’t because you can’t.

Have you noticed that the low IQ trump cultists favorite word is libtard? This one can't post a comment without it. To them, it's an insult. to me, it's a compliment. I'd rather be a liberal than a mouth breathing, knuckle dragging trump cultist.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Ok, you are on. I bet that Trump cannot change the Constitution by EO. You are betting that he can.

This is correct...……

Note: I didn't say he would do it because that wouldn't be Permanent.

But the $20.00 bet stands that it is possible....

After you bet I will explain How I can prove it...……..

If it is not permanent it does not matter.

It does if your real goal is to force a national conversation on the subject, followed by an official ruling from the Supreme Court on it.

Or if your goal is to swing a few votes his way


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Hey, far be it from me to ask you to get your head out of your ass and see something beyond partisan politics. After all, that steadfast obsession on the part of you and your fellow useful idiots has brought such handsome dividends to the rest of us.

So by all means, remain oblivious to any big pictures.

Your savior in the White House wants to alter the Constitution via EO and you think that is not the big picture.

You are a good and loyal statist.

 

[beagle9]

This is correct...……

Note: I didn't say he would do it because that wouldn't be Permanent.

But the $20.00 bet stands that it is possible....

After you bet I will explain How I can prove it...……..

If it is not permanent it does not matter.

It does if your real goal is to force a national conversation on the subject, followed by an official ruling from the Supreme Court on it.

Or if your goal is to swing a few votes his way


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Hey, far be it from me to ask you to get your head out of your ass and see something beyond partisan politics. After all, that steadfast obsession on the part of you and your fellow useful idiots has brought such handsome dividends to the rest of us.

So by all means, remain oblivious to any big pictures.

Your savior in the White House wants to alter the Constitution via EO and you think that is not the big picture.

You are a good and loyal statist.

Ok when Obummer was running around puffing himself up with EO's, but now it's the worst eh ??? Elections have consequences.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

If it is not permanent it does not matter.

It does if your real goal is to force a national conversation on the subject, followed by an official ruling from the Supreme Court on it.

Or if your goal is to swing a few votes his way


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Hey, far be it from me to ask you to get your head out of your ass and see something beyond partisan politics. After all, that steadfast obsession on the part of you and your fellow useful idiots has brought such handsome dividends to the rest of us.

So by all means, remain oblivious to any big pictures.

Your savior in the White House wants to alter the Constitution via EO and you think that is not the big picture.

You are a good and loyal statist.

Ok when Obummer was running around puffing himself up with EO's, but now it's the worst eh ??? Elections have consequences.

No, it was not ok then either. That is the difference between me and the sheep like you on both sides, I do not approve of it no matter who does it.

All of you that whined about Obama doing it are now cheering on Trump...there is a word for that.

 

[beagle9]

It does if your real goal is to force a national conversation on the subject, followed by an official ruling from the Supreme Court on it.

Or if your goal is to swing a few votes his way


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Hey, far be it from me to ask you to get your head out of your ass and see something beyond partisan politics. After all, that steadfast obsession on the part of you and your fellow useful idiots has brought such handsome dividends to the rest of us.

So by all means, remain oblivious to any big pictures.

Your savior in the White House wants to alter the Constitution via EO and you think that is not the big picture.

You are a good and loyal statist.

Ok when Obummer was running around puffing himself up with EO's, but now it's the worst eh ??? Elections have consequences.

No, it was not ok then either. That is the difference between me and the sheep like you on both sides, I do not approve of it no matter who does it.

All of you that whined about Obama doing it are now cheering on Trump...there is a word for that.

Yep there sure is, and it's called "payback".

 

[Deno]

Only a retard like yourself would need a link to know the sun comes up in the morning.

We are WINNING...…….

You libtards are having your ass kicked up around your ears by TRUMP...

Bite that tard...……...

LOLOL

What a pathetically weak bluff, welsher-to-be. If you could have posted a link to even a single Liberal here welshing, you would have. You don’t because you can’t.

You are more libtarded than most.....

Only a Dumb Ass like yourself needs a link to prove

what is obvious to the sane...……..

So “obvious,” you can’t actually prove it.

You would think you would get tired of getting your ass kicked...……...

LOLOL

Kicking someone's ass requires proving what you claim. You can't prove shit so you're drooling gibberish instead, hoping no one will notice.

Rave on you idiot………

You’re a libtard….

No link needed………

The proof is in the pudding….

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Or if your goal is to swing a few votes his way


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Hey, far be it from me to ask you to get your head out of your ass and see something beyond partisan politics. After all, that steadfast obsession on the part of you and your fellow useful idiots has brought such handsome dividends to the rest of us.

So by all means, remain oblivious to any big pictures.

Your savior in the White House wants to alter the Constitution via EO and you think that is not the big picture.

You are a good and loyal statist.

Ok when Obummer was running around puffing himself up with EO's, but now it's the worst eh ??? Elections have consequences.

No, it was not ok then either. That is the difference between me and the sheep like you on both sides, I do not approve of it no matter who does it.

All of you that whined about Obama doing it are now cheering on Trump...there is a word for that.

Yep there sure is, and it's called "payback".

It’s called you are no different than that which you rant and rail against.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Faun]

LOLOL

What a pathetically weak bluff, welsher-to-be. If you could have posted a link to even a single Liberal here welshing, you would have. You don’t because you can’t.

You are more libtarded than most.....

Only a Dumb Ass like yourself needs a link to prove

what is obvious to the sane...……..

So “obvious,” you can’t actually prove it.

You would think you would get tired of getting your ass kicked...……...

LOLOL

Kicking someone's ass requires proving what you claim. You can't prove shit so you're drooling gibberish instead, hoping no one will notice.

Rave on you idiot………

You’re a libtard….

No link needed………

The proof is in the pudding….

The proof is you can’t find even one.

 

[beagle9]

Hey, far be it from me to ask you to get your head out of your ass and see something beyond partisan politics. After all, that steadfast obsession on the part of you and your fellow useful idiots has brought such handsome dividends to the rest of us.

So by all means, remain oblivious to any big pictures.

Your savior in the White House wants to alter the Constitution via EO and you think that is not the big picture.

You are a good and loyal statist.

Ok when Obummer was running around puffing himself up with EO's, but now it's the worst eh ??? Elections have consequences.

No, it was not ok then either. That is the difference between me and the sheep like you on both sides, I do not approve of it no matter who does it.

All of you that whined about Obama doing it are now cheering on Trump...there is a word for that.

Yep there sure is, and it's called "payback".

It’s called you are no different than that which you rant and rail against.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

You created me.