Trump On Afghanistan Withdrawal

[Ben Thomson]

Keep in mind the wretched scenes of people trying get on airplanes are the westernized urban Afghans who live in and around Kabul. They probably represent about 10% of Afghanistan. The other 90% live out in the provinces and are not scrambling, trying to get out. They live under the protection of various warlords throughout the region. These warlords are all old mujahideen who will put up with these radical Taliban up to a point. They just want to left alone to do their thing and the Taliban know it. Coming scenes of strict Sharia law being carried out will be in Kabul and maybe some surrounding provincial capitals..doubt you will see them doing it out in the scattered villages in the back country of Afghanistan where theses warlords prevail.

 

[Synthaholic]

The guy in charge of the Taliban . . . . the guy who is now going to run Afghanistan . . . . ?

Trump released him from prison last year, where he had been for 10 years.

 

[JoeB131]

The blame game is really dividing democrats more than anything, as there simply aren't that many principled progressives left.

Again, I'm talking about the blame game here. The finger pointing.

That's all I have to say about that.

That's nice.

At least Biden is owning this mess, unlike his predecessors.

There's plenty of blame to go around. Biden, Trump, Obama and Bush all deserve a bit of it. So do Carter, Reagan, Elder Bush and Clinton for their ham-fisted policies before the Taliban took over. So are all the Generals who painted rosy pictures of our progress that didn't match reality.

But end of the day, as bad as this is, it's probably what most Afghans want.

 

[Natural Citizen]

That's nice.

At least Biden is owning this mess, unlike his predecessors.

There's plenty of blame to go around. Biden, Trump, Obama and Bush all deserve a bit of it. So do Carter, Reagan, Elder Bush and Clinton for their ham-fisted policies before the Taliban took over. So are all the Generals who painted rosy pictures of our progress that didn't match reality.

But end of the day, as bad as this is, it's probably what most Afghans want.

I'm not particularly interested in participating in the whole finger pointing affair. It's trivial.

What I said is germane in scope, however. The trivial finger pointing just reminded me of it is all.

Ah well. Take it for whatever it's worth. Doesn't affect my day.

 

[Toro]

The best description I've heard about the Afghanistan debacle is that "Trump made the bed but Biden chose to sleep in it."

 

[Toro]

 

[JoeB131]

The best description I've heard about the Afghanistan debacle is that "Trump made the bed but Biden chose to sleep in it."

Yup. Trite and innacurate.

More like, Biden made the best bad decision available.

 

[Crepitus]

Trump on the withdrawal.



What is fair is that it's hard to believe that the Trump administration would have been any more incompetent at managing the withdrawal as Biden.

I bet he could have managed it. Look how well he did at managing the pandemic.

 

[BULLDOG]

Why?

We had, what, 3500 troops in Afghanistan? We have 50,000 in Korea. We have tens of thousands in Europe.

IIRC, we've had 25 Americans die in Afghanistan over the past five years. That many people die of COVID in Florida before the sun comes up every morning.

Our actions are causing the wholesale slaughter of civilians and people who helped us. The country risks becoming another repository of terrorists who will attack us.

It's a fucking disaster.

We trained 300,000 of their troops, and paid them while we did it. We supplied their military with everything they would need to defend themselves, and even promised air support. We explained to the Afgan president and leaders how important it would be for them to work together and lead their military to protect their country. We even had plans to evacuate those that had worked as interpreters and other ways for our military. Afgan leaders didn't want us to evacuate those that had worked for our military because it would look like a lack of confidence in the Afgan people. We left, and the Afgan president immediately went to hide in another country. The other leaders did the same. With nobody to lead their military, their soldiers just went home, and left all the military equipment we gave the to be captured. and didn't even try to defend their own country. How many more years do you think we should sacrifice our soldiers and spend millions in a country that won't even try to defend them selves?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

We've had massive numbers of US troops stationed abroad for 80 years and it's brought us nothing but headaches.

Maybe that was from the hangover from half a century of world war

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

and didn't even try to defend their own country.

Because it doesn't really exist, for the majority of Afghanis. Hasn't for years.

 

[pknopp]

Because it doesn't really exist, for the majority of Afghanis. Hasn't for years.

It's probably fair to note that many of the age to protect their country doesn't know or remember their country before our invasion which is just another example of why we stayed there way too long.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's probably fair to note that many of the age to protect their country doesn't know or remember their country before our invasion which is just another example of why we stayed there way too long.

A really great point. I had thought that about the Taliban (like...are they all 35 years old? A lot of them? Did they make a lot of babies?), but I completely forgot to think it about the rest of Afghanistan.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Nineteen years is long enough, and if the Taliban roll right in after we leave, well it mean the people are either so pathetic that the U.S. has to stay forever or they just do not care who rules them but either way the U.S. had to leave.

No doubt how Biden did it was a mistake but let be clear the Taliban was taking back over once the Boots were gone…

 

[Lakhota]

We have betrayed the people who helped us. They are going to die because of our recklessness.

Why the fuck would anyone assist or believe America now?

Amen!

The problem is not that we left Afghanistan - the problem is HOW we left Afghanistan!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The problem is not that we left Afghanistan - the problem is HOW we left Afghanistan!

We took 5 years to leave Afghanistan. The Taliban controlled 70% of Afghanistan a month ago. What else could we do? Stay or leave.

 

[pknopp]

Amen!

The problem is not that we left Afghanistan - the problem is HOW we left Afghanistan!

The problem was the idea that we were still there.

 

[Lakhota]

We took 5 years to leave Afghanistan. The Taliban controlled 70% of Afghanistan a month ago. What else could we do? Stay or leave.

We took 5 years to leave Afghanistan. The Taliban controlled 70% of Afghanistan a month ago. What else could we do? Stay or leave.

Duh, evacuate all the Afghan interpreters and support staff who aided and supported our soldiers - THEN EVACUATE THE SOLDIERS!!!!!

This is another evacuation clusterfuck reminiscent of Vietnam. Sad...

 

[Lakhota]

The problem was the idea that we were still there.

Does that excuse how we finally left?

 

[pknopp]

Does that excuse how we finally left?

What happened was inevitable. We could have taken 3 more months but the end result would be the same. We could have dropped a few more bombs but the end result would be the same. Some idea that it would be somehow different if X and X had been done is a fantasy.