Troja in medieval times

[ekrem]

Hello.
I will post some pages from some German Books, mainly from Crusader perspective.

As you know the Crsuaders did also march through Anatolia dureing their several crusades. Sometimes with success, sometimes with failure. This success was coupled to the question whether local Turkish tribes fought united against the Crusaders or not.
For example the Danischmendid-Turks located around Sivas fought together with the Crusaders against the Seljuk-Turks. Then Danischmendid-Turks fought together with Seljuk-Turks and victoried the Crusaders.

I will come to this point later dureing my posts, but at this point just let it stay that European Kingdom-Families refer to the Trojans as their ancestors. This is no joke, the sources will be delivered later on. The Trojans are regarded as noble and with fighting spirit, while the Greeks were regarded as perfidious who could only battle the Trojans with tricks (Trojan Horse).
The Franconians (the Crusaders were called this way) had trojan ancestors (to their telling) and as the Franconians admired the fighting spirit of the local tribes, they regarded these Turkish tribes also as ancestors from Trojans.
So it is recorded in the chronics of the Franconians of that time.

Most of what this thread will be about comes from the German book (but also other books with scanned related parts):
Dreams and Reality: Troia

This picture illustrates chronics from the Franconians in Old German.
It says, that the the founding father of the Franconians was Franco and the founding father of the Turks was Turcus. Both were Trojans.
picture in small size:

Picture in big size:
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2152/trojaturcusfrancogro.jpg


Fatih Sultan - the Conqueror - Mehmet II. refering to Trojan roots when he conquered Constantinople by saying: "God has given me the right to revenge this city and its inhabitants (meaning Troja)".

So actually, in the believings of the Franconians the Franconians and Turks were related and both were Trojans.
to be continued.

 

[ekrem]

The whole subject of Franco and Turco from Troja can also be read independently in the
1493 year printed Welschede World Chronicle which is an important document for German printing-art of those times:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Schedelsche_Weltchronik_d_037.jpg

 

[midcan5]

What's your point? And why not just include URLs, the site admin would probably appreciate that. Google books may have graphics? Isn't all this still debated as well?

TROY

Page and Stage » Trojan War

 

[ekrem]

What's your point? And why not just include URLs, the site admin would probably appreciate that. Google books may have graphics? Isn't all this still debated as well?

TROY

Page and Stage » Trojan War

My point is that i have read many books about Troja and i want to discuss this issue. Please be not so unpatient. My introduceing post was about medieval powers calling their roots to Trojanian ancestors, and , i will for sure widen this subject and other Trojan issues.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What's your point? And why not just include URLs, the site admin would probably appreciate that. Google books may have graphics? Isn't all this still debated as well?

TROY

Page and Stage » Trojan War

My point is that i have read many books about Troja and i want to discuss this issue. Please be not so unpatient. My introduceing post was about medieval powers calling their roots to Trojanian ancestors, and , i will for sure widen this subject and other Trojan issues.

Sehr interessant

 

[editec]

It will help this thread enormously if that image were reduced.

The Troy was another Greek City state is my understanding, incidently.

As to the Germans being Trojans?

I'm dubious.

 

[Xenophon]

The events of the trojan war are described in Homer's Iliad.

Although a story, it appears to be based on a war fought by broze age Mycenean Greeks against the trojans, a city state located on the asian side of the dardenelles, which was discovered in the 19th century.

Bronze age Greek culture was destroyed in a 'dark age' and replaced by a new wave Greek barbarians, called doric Greeks who become the familar culture we call 'Classic Greece.'

There is zero chance and Germans are decended from Troy, the Romans believed they were, based off Virgil's Aeneid, but this off course is just legend.

 

[ekrem]

The events of the trojan war are described in Homer's Iliad.

Although a story, it appears to be based on a war fought by broze age Mycenean Greeks against the trojans, a city state located on the asian side of the dardenelles, which was discovered in the 19th century.

Bronze age Greek culture was destroyed in a 'dark age' and replaced by a new wave Greek barbarians, called doric Greeks who become the familar culture we call 'Classic Greece.'

There is zero chance and Germans are decended from Troy, the Romans believed they were, based off Virgil's Aeneid, but this off course is just legend.

But Trojans were no Greeks. Trojans were people from the Hittites:
Hittites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Trojans did speak also a language called Luwian, an Hittite dialect:
Luwian language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now coming to Homer and the Iliad/Ilias.
In the science community it is accepted that Troja is the Hittite city of Wilusa. Wilusa transfers into Greek as Wiliosa. Till the 8th century B.C. the W disappeared and for Homer it was Iliosa. In Greek grammatic Ilias/ilad means "History of Ilios".

This theory comes from German prof. Starke from University of Tübingen, which with Turkish universities and American University of Cincinnati is currently involved in excarvations in Troja:
Project Troia

This theory was accepted by the worldwide Tojan scientists in the 2001 Genoan congress about Troy.
Großstadt der Götter: Homer hatte Recht: Troja gab es wirklich. Eine Ausstellung zeigt Aufstieg und Fall der antiken Metropole | Wissen | Nachrichten auf ZEIT ONLINE

In the Iliad Homer refers to Apollon as the security god for Troy.
In 1280 BC King Alaksandu of Wilusa made a state treaty with Great-King Muwatalli of the whole Hittite Empire.
In this document both leaders refer to the gods Apullunias and Kaskal-Kur.
As you see Apullunias refers to Apollon.

Greeks made contact with Troy, as University of Tubingen says earliest in 1500 BC. Stone texts of the Hittites acknowledge Troy's /Wilusa's existence already in 1700 BC:
http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/troia/deu/lataczwilusa.pdf
The Greeks just took over the name Wilusa and transferred it into their linguistic sounds as Wiliosa. In 800 BC the W disappered in the poet Homer spoke of Iliosa from which comes Ilias = "The History of Iliosa".

The Hittites were a very advanced civilization, the dominant power of that area after the old Egypts and the culture transfer from Anatolian Hittites to the early Greeks was great. Hittite gods like Apullun were overtaken by the Greeks as Apollon, Hittite names like Aleksandu were transfered as Alexander.

This culture transfer from Hittites to the West is also expandable to the Etruscans. There is debate whether Rome was founded by Italic or Etruscan tribes. You can read this debate on Wikipedia:
Etruscan civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But no matter what Etruscans merged with Italics into the Roman Empire.

As we know today through DNA analysis, Etruscans colonizing Italy came from Anatolian Hittite Empire and settled cities in Italy long before Rome was established.

Genetic tests: Italians were from Turkey
Genetic tests: Italians were from Turkey - Los Angeles Times

The enigma of Italy's ancient Etruscans is finally unravelled
The enigma of Italy's ancient Etruscans is finally unravelled | World news | The Guardian

DNA Boosts Herodotus’ Account of Etruscans as Migrants to Italy
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/science/03etruscan.html

For example Ephesus comes also from Hittite Abasa.
To wholly research Hittites Turkey would have to explode all culture-imperialism from Greeks and Romans built over Hittite structures.

I did not want to stay much on Troy issue in this time-era, but will concentrate more on medieval times.