Transformation of Religion in England.

[JimBowie1958]

The Europeans were lost until the ancient learning of pre Christian info was relearned from Islamic scholars....The Church sought to censor anything that went against the dogmatic ecclesiastical theory of the Roman Catholic Church.
The only thing that held the Western Roman Catholic Church together was the Holy Roman Empire..Which was controlled by those that could reconquer the old Western Roman Empire.
The thing that allowed the Europeans to break out of the dark ages was trade with Eastern nations and sea voyages that discovered new territories they could exploit.

The 'darkness' of the Dark Ages is over rated immensely.

European civilization advanced under a hybrid Roman-Celtic-Germanic leadership under the separate rule of German kings, the parts that didn't fall to the Muslims or Avars or Magyars or Huns or Mongols or Vikings, etc.

Europe in the 9th century nearly was destroyed, Charlemagne defended it, revived it and gave it a sense of itself again.

His work has been undone in the last century and Europe is diminished for it.

 

[Moonglow]

I disagree that the catholic church was the glue that united Europe. Europe was never united.

I'm guessing she meant on a cultural level, Europe seemed to get a sense of being a larger unit of nations due to Catholicism.

Europe was forced through theological dogma and military conquest, to submit to Rome..

 

[JimBowie1958]

A liberal protestant, that battled Catholic control....Later thousands would die from Henry's children in religious wars between Catholics and Protestants. Wars that lasted 2 hundred years..

Actually Henry VII was quite conservative for his time on religious matters, though he was very innovative with his use of the monastery laws.

Yes, but his lust cause the rift between him and the Church...

I despise Henry VII, but to be fair in his defense, he did have to have a successor for England to avoid a return to civil war like the War of the Roses.

Apparently he had enough bastards but needed legit heirs.

 

[SAYIT]

Thus the impetus for separating Church from state and how fortunate are we in America.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Thus the impetus for separating Church from state and how fortunate are we in America.

So why hasn't England yet separated church from state if these lessons are so obvious? or Israel or Sweden?

 

[Avatar4321]

Actually Henry VII was quite conservative for his time on religious matters, though he was very innovative with his use of the monastery laws.

Yes, but his lust cause the rift between him and the Church...

I despise Henry VII, but to be fair in his defense, he did have to have a successor for England to avoid a return to civil war like the War of the Roses.

Apparently he had enough bastards but needed legit heirs.

And His Daughter, Elizabeth I was one of the most revered Monarchs in British History.

 

[SAYIT]

Thus the impetus for separating Church from state and how fortunate are we in America.

So why hasn't England yet separated church from state if these lessons are so obvious? or Israel or Sweden?

Because the benefits of Liberal Democracy aren't obvious to everyone.

 

[Avatar4321]

Thus the impetus for separating Church from state and how fortunate are we in America.

So why hasn't England yet separated church from state if these lessons are so obvious? or Israel or Sweden?

Because the benefits of Liberal Democracy aren't obvious to everyone.

Including us, since we are still a Republic.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Yes, but his lust cause the rift between him and the Church...

I despise Henry VII, but to be fair in his defense, he did have to have a successor for England to avoid a return to civil war like the War of the Roses.

Apparently he had enough bastards but needed legit heirs.

And His Daughter, Elizabeth I was one of the most revered Monarchs in British History.

Yeah, she was a great one.

I have difficulty imagining how she managed to navigate the fine lines she had to.

I play Civ4 a lot (Civ5 sux), and with hindsight a person can do pretty damned well compared to the people at the time in these historical scenarios a whole lot of people go to a huge effort to design.

Does it mean we are smarter than they were? Of course not, but it shows the incredible value of hindsight.

Elizabeth was in entirely unchartered waters with incredible dangers all around her and England and came out like a Demigod. (That is a Civ4 reference, I don't mean she was literally a demigod)

 

[JimBowie1958]

Thus the impetus for separating Church from state and how fortunate are we in America.

So why hasn't England yet separated church from state if these lessons are so obvious? or Israel or Sweden?

Because the benefits of Liberal Democracy aren't obvious to everyone.

I don't think that word means what you think it means

ob·vi·ous adjective \ˈäb-vē-əs\

: easy to see or notice

: easy for the mind to understand or recognize

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

The two little dogs, trying to nip at my ankles.....

...shows you recognize your betters.



Just curious.....how do you decide which of you picks up the check?

Sorry, that was funny.