too little too late...

[theDoctorisIn]

Why does one have to supercede the other?

Why cant Obama show compassion to the people, not threaten the 30,000 jobs of the people he insisted stop working from the other platforms, and instead show them compassion as well WHILE BP works on plugging the leak?

Instead, he announces he is da man to fix da problem, (like he knows his ass from his elbow as it pertains to engineering), shows anger; threatens an industry; threatens legal action, and meets with Marv Albert and Paul McCartney.

Because it's not the President's job to show compassion, Bill Clinton to the contrary.

I don't want a President who'll give me a hug and tell me everything will be alright. I want a President who will actively work towards making things alright.

So you want him to sit down and start applying his engineering skills to determine what the best solution is?

Does anyone on this fucking forum have a fucking clue what the role of the President is besides campaigning for his party and signing legislation into law?

No, I want him spending his time finding the best engineers and scientists to work on the problem, instead of wasting those engineer's times by flying down there, shutting down work so the SS can secure the building, shutting down roads and airports, and otherwise getting in the way.

I don't want the President to be a parent.

 

[Jarhead]

Because it's not the President's job to show compassion, Bill Clinton to the contrary.

I don't want a President who'll give me a hug and tell me everything will be alright. I want a President who will actively work towards making things alright.

So you want him to sit down and start applying his engineering skills to determine what the best solution is?

Does anyone on this fucking forum have a fucking clue what the role of the President is besides campaigning for his party and signing legislation into law?

No, I want him spending his time finding the best engineers and scientists to work on the problem, instead of wasting those engineer's times by flying down there, shutting down work so the SS can secure the building, shutting down roads and airports, and otherwise getting in the way.

I don't want the President to be a parent.

You are lost my friend.

So he knows enough about science and engineering to be the best person in all of the land to determine who would be best to handle the problem?

Give it a rest. You are clueless. He is a figurehead. Not a jack of all trades. What he is best for in a situation like this is to be the voice of compassion to the people. He has absolutely no training to deal with the actual problem itself in any way shape or form.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So you want him to sit down and start applying his engineering skills to determine what the best solution is?

Does anyone on this fucking forum have a fucking clue what the role of the President is besides campaigning for his party and signing legislation into law?

No, I want him spending his time finding the best engineers and scientists to work on the problem, instead of wasting those engineer's times by flying down there, shutting down work so the SS can secure the building, shutting down roads and airports, and otherwise getting in the way.

I don't want the President to be a parent.

You are lost my friend.

So he knows enough about science and engineering to be the best person in all of the land to determine who would be best to handle the problem?

Give it a rest. You are clueless. He is a figurehead. Not a jack of all trades. What he is best for in a situation like this is to be the voice of compassion to the people. He has absolutely no training to deal with the actual problem itself in any way shape or form.

I disagree. The Office of the President is not a figurehead. He personally does not have the training to deal with it - that's what the cabinet and advisers are for. If all you want out of a President is someone to smile for the camera, that's fine. But I expect more.

 

[Jarhead]

No, I want him spending his time finding the best engineers and scientists to work on the problem, instead of wasting those engineer's times by flying down there, shutting down work so the SS can secure the building, shutting down roads and airports, and otherwise getting in the way.

I don't want the President to be a parent.

You are lost my friend.

So he knows enough about science and engineering to be the best person in all of the land to determine who would be best to handle the problem?

Give it a rest. You are clueless. He is a figurehead. Not a jack of all trades. What he is best for in a situation like this is to be the voice of compassion to the people. He has absolutely no training to deal with the actual problem itself in any way shape or form.

I disagree. The Office of the President is not a figurehead. He personally does not have the training to deal with it - that's what the cabinet and advisers are for. If all you want out of a President is someone to smile for the camera, that's fine. But I expect more.

Smile for the camera is showing compassion?

You really stretched to end up losing this debate anyway.

Have a great weekend.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You are lost my friend.

So he knows enough about science and engineering to be the best person in all of the land to determine who would be best to handle the problem?

Give it a rest. You are clueless. He is a figurehead. Not a jack of all trades. What he is best for in a situation like this is to be the voice of compassion to the people. He has absolutely no training to deal with the actual problem itself in any way shape or form.

I disagree. The Office of the President is not a figurehead. He personally does not have the training to deal with it - that's what the cabinet and advisers are for. If all you want out of a President is someone to smile for the camera, that's fine. But I expect more.

Smile for the camera is showing compassion?

You really stretched to end up losing this debate anyway.

Have a great weekend.

"Losing" this debate? Did you get a prize for winning?

This isn't a debate, my friend. This is my opinion and yours. You have a great weekend as well.

 

[strollingbones]

he should shut down atlantis...is what he should do...he should not have been calling for drilling off the east coast....wasnt he an enviromental president? what think tank was formed? no he left it to bp to try to figure out the cheapest way to fix it ....not the fastest...fuck obama and i am a yellow dog democrat

 

[Care4all]

Because it's not the President's job to show compassion, Bill Clinton to the contrary.

I don't want a President who'll give me a hug and tell me everything will be alright. I want a President who will actively work towards making things alright.

So you want him to sit down and start applying his engineering skills to determine what the best solution is?

Does anyone on this fucking forum have a fucking clue what the role of the President is besides campaigning for his party and signing legislation into law?

No, I want him spending his time finding the best engineers and scientists to work on the problem, instead of wasting those engineer's times by flying down there, shutting down work so the SS can secure the building, shutting down roads and airports, and otherwise getting in the way.

I don't want the President to be a parent.

would he interview them himself? how would he know they are the best in the field to handle this?

with all of, the 2 president Bush's experience and connections in the oil industry and cheney's too, you would think they would have tried to find someone in the industry that could fix this leak....I suppose even they know of no one experienced enough to do a better job than BP.

even BP went to the engineers of other big oil companies such as exxon/mobile for help is what was on the 24/7.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So you want him to sit down and start applying his engineering skills to determine what the best solution is?

Does anyone on this fucking forum have a fucking clue what the role of the President is besides campaigning for his party and signing legislation into law?

No, I want him spending his time finding the best engineers and scientists to work on the problem, instead of wasting those engineer's times by flying down there, shutting down work so the SS can secure the building, shutting down roads and airports, and otherwise getting in the way.

I don't want the President to be a parent.

would he interview them himself? how would he know they are the best in the field to handle this?

with all of, the 2 president Bush's experience and connections in the oil industry and cheney's too, you would think they would have tried to find someone in the industry that could fix this leak....I suppose even they know of no one experienced enough to do a better job than BP.

even BP went to the engineers of other big oil companies such as exxon/mobile for help is what was on the 24/7.

The real point of the matter is that WE (the human race) don't know what to do to fix this. It is beyond our current abilities in terms of science.

 

[American Horse]

When CNN's Anderson Cooper says this:

COOPER: It is sort of fascinating, David, for a president who watched Katrina and saw the- you know, the failures of the Bush administration- and there were failures, also, at the state and local level, we all know, in Katrina. But for a president who saw that and- you know, was very critical of it, to now find himself in a situation in which he's being criticized for the lack of response or lack of coordination, is kind of stunning.

Read more: CNN's Cooper: It's 'Stunning' Obama Let Oil Leak Become 'Katrina in Slow Mo' | NewsBusters.org

You know you've got a problem.

Obama will not let this "good crisis" go to waste for his own personal gains. I would expect energy costs to increase substantially and the backroom deals with "green energy" companies to flourish.

In the Katrina disaster, state and local (city) had primary responsibility.

In this disaster, except for BP, the Feds had primary responsibility since the whole event took place outside state borders, and the Feds had the responsibility to regulate, and they did a poor job at it. According to an article in the WSJ (June 1st) BP changed design of the well a week before the spill.

According to WSJ the MMS allowed the regulations to be breached time after time in the days leading up to the explosion, signing off on repeated requests to change plans which did not conform to requirements pertaining to advance notification.

"In only one other case, a 2005 well drilled in just 48-feet of water, has a company submitted three revisions within 24 hours, as happened at BP's well. BP's well is in more than 5,000 feet of water, making dealing with the well far more complicated.
Changing procedures at the last minute is discouraged in the oil industry. The industry has long emphasized the importance of strict "management of change" policies -- protocols for making sure that changes to well design and drilling plans don't introduce new risks, or to address them if they do."



Is the Administration doing everything they can even now that they have finally stopped their almost complete dithering on requests by governor Jindal?

A former Shell Oil president John Hofmeister and Nick Pozzi, a former pipeline engineering and operations project manager say that a solution to cleaning up the Gulf Coast Oil spill is right under BP’s noses."

"They say that BP could use their very own supertankers to suck up the spilled oil in the gulf and possibly salvage it for sale down the line. The tactic was proven effective during a Saudi spill in the 90’s — it sucked up 85% of the renegade oil. BP has tankers already sitting in the Gulf of Mexico, so we’re thinking, with their tactics failing left and right, why don’t they get on this already?"

"Using their tankers for cleanup would mean tying up a huge part of their money-making process, not to mention they’d have to unload them of the oil that they’re holding first — which could prove a huge endeavor. It would take some planning to get in motion, but almost assuredly would clean up a vast amount of the oil already spilled across the Gulf. Plus they could deliver the oil to port, separate water out and then process it for sale. So what are they waiting for?"

Wouldn't a competent administration have done the obvious, and asked for immediate consultations with people who are experts in the field, like from American oil companies, for instance, which have a wealth of knowledge and a vital interest in ameliorating this disaster?

 

[Ravi]

What if they can never stop the leak?

 

[Ravi]

he should shut down atlantis...is what he should do...he should not have been calling for drilling off the east coast....wasnt he an enviromental president? what think tank was formed? no he left it to bp to try to figure out the cheapest way to fix it ....not the fastest...fuck obama and i am a yellow dog democrat

When he was campaigning he promised to open up coastal drilling. Did you not pay attention?

And please, get real. Why would BP want to take their time fixing it?

 

[Jarhead]

I disagree. The Office of the President is not a figurehead. He personally does not have the training to deal with it - that's what the cabinet and advisers are for. If all you want out of a President is someone to smile for the camera, that's fine. But I expect more.

Smile for the camera is showing compassion?

You really stretched to end up losing this debate anyway.

Have a great weekend.

"Losing" this debate? Did you get a prize for winning?

This isn't a debate, my friend. This is my opinion and yours. You have a great weekend as well.

You are correct. No winners or losers. Just differing opinions.

But I still believe that the President has only one major role in this. Using his charisma to motivate the people to rise above the disaster. He is not qualified to do anything as it pertains to the leak.
And showing anger and threatening the oil industry and threatening legal action is by no means the way to motivate the people. There will bve plenty of time for that later.

But that seems to be his MO as of late.

 

[Sheldon]

What if they can never stop the leak?

I never even thought of that. Jeez...


you're such a buzzkill.



It would castrate the economies in the Caribbean, probably, and the entire Gulf Coast would be a permanent hazmat zone, which would destroy tourism. And more.

 

[American Horse]

What if they can never stop the leak?

It will be stopped when the two relief wells are completed, or at least reduced to a trickle then. Right now it is almost a full blown gusher.

But as I expected, when the long riser which had fallen to the sea bottom was cut away the flow was no longer restricted as it had been, and although they are capturing a lot of it, we are no doubt getting more of a gusher than we were before, even with the LMRP.

Because they didn't anticipate that when they cut the pipe - just as a tree being cut by a chain-saw when it finally falls - that it would bind the diamond wire making the cut, meant where they needed a smooth cut-off to get a tight seal, they didn't get that. Perhaps they could've made a second cut-off to "de-burr" it, but by then it was pouring out "wide open" then, because it was no longer restricted by the smaller openings where the pipe was breached by being bent. Before there were only slits for openings.

My mention of Hofmeister's suggestion in the post back a few before this one, to collect the oil in tankers as it comes to the surface, may not be something they would offer on their own because it would be very expensive and because it would mean they would have to dedicate their tanker capacity from more profitable usage elsewhere. Not offering to do this may show that they are not willing to do absolutely everything (because it would impair their profit making potential elsewhere) without reservation. That is why other oil companies ought to be sought out for recommendations, perhaps to assess their physical capacity to help as well as their expertise.

 

[Ravi]

What if they can never stop the leak?

It will be stopped when the two relief wells are completed, or at least reduced to a trickle then. Right now it is almost a full blown gusher.

But as I expected, when the long riser which had fallen to the sea bottom was cut away the flow was no longer restricted as it had been, and although they are capturing a lot of it, we are no doubt getting more of a gusher than we were before, even with the LMRP.

Because they didn't anticipate that when they cut the pipe - just as a tree being cut by a chain-saw when it finally falls - that it would bind the diamond wire making the cut, meant where they needed a smooth cut-off to get a tight seal, they didn't get that. Perhaps they could've made a second cut-off to "de-burr" it, but by then it was pouring out "wide open" then, because it was no longer restricted by the smaller openings where the pipe was breached by being bent. Before there were only slits for openings.

My mention of Hofmeister's suggestion in the post back a few before this one, to collect the oil in tankers as it comes to the surface, may not be something they would offer on their own because it would be very expensive and because it would mean they would have to dedicate their tanker capacity from more profitable usage elsewhere. Not offering to do this may show that they are not willing to do absolutely everything (because it would impair their profit making potential elsewhere) without reservation. That is why other oil companies ought to be sought out for recommendations, perhaps to assess their physical capacity to help as well as their expertise.

BP did that over a month ago.

Reaching out for help

Suttles said BP had invited experts from Exxon Mobil, Shell, Chevron and Houston-based Apache to its operating center in Houston to help find new ways to cap the well, which government estimates now say is pumping as much as 5,000 barrels, or 210,000 gallons, of oil into the Gulf every day.
“We've invited the biggest oil and gas companies to bring their best experts to sit next to ours and make sure we haven't missed anything,” Suttles said.

Crews in a frantic fight against oil spill | Deepwater Horizon | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

As for the saw...they did say before hand several times that this was a "risky" move without ever explaining what the risk was or what failure would mean.

 

[Ravi]

Also, AH...I doubt there are enough skimmers in existence to collect enough oil from the surface to make much more than a dent in it.

 

[American Horse]

Also, AH...I doubt there are enough skimmers in existence to collect enough oil from the surface to make much more than a dent in it.

Probably so Ravi, there probably aren't enough already made, but they could be made quickly enough to fill in the gaps; there is a labor force and industrial capacity standintg by.

 

[Ravi]

Also, AH...I doubt there are enough skimmers in existence to collect enough oil from the surface to make much more than a dent in it.

Probably so Ravi, there probably aren't enough already made, but they could be made quickly enough to fill in the gaps; there is a labor force and industrial capacity standintg by.

Okay, point taken.

So how do we do this? Can already existing shrimp boats become skimmers? Or do they need to be built from scratch?

My state representatives are now wringing their hands and wondering why the Fed isn't paying as much attention to us as they are LA and it makes me angry. They could do this stuff too...

So tell me...how can we accomplish this?

 

[American Horse]

Also, AH...I doubt there are enough skimmers in existence to collect enough oil from the surface to make much more than a dent in it.

Probably so Ravi, there probably aren't enough already made, but they could be made quickly enough to fill in the gaps; there is a labor force and industrial capacity standing by.

Okay, point taken.

So how do we do this? Can already existing shrimp boats become skimmers? Or do they need to be built from scratch?

My state representatives are now wringing their hands and wondering why the Fed isn't paying as much attention to us as they are LA and it makes me angry. They could do this stuff too...

So tell me...how can we accomplish this?

Former Shell president Hofmeister said today in an interview on the radio that there are thousands of barges and trawlers available for this use. He seemed to have a plan. He said he offered his expertise and wasn't paid much attention.

I trust people who have serious and practical experience to develop solutions more than bureaucrats. People who are close to the problem like Governor Jindal was given short shrift for his solution to build sand berms. Sand is abundant. Building diversions to catch and control contaminants is hugely better than cleaning up vast areas of beachlands and estuaries once they are spoiled.

I think the expertise is out there; it is simply not being utilized very fully.

 

[Ravi]

According to the coast guard, thousands of trawlers and boats are being used, as is boom and people just picking tar balls up.

Here's a good article on what is being done.

Imperfect barriers a fragile defense - Florida - MiamiHerald.com

Jindall's idea sounds like a waste of time and money to me, but we shall see. Interesting that he had to be guaranteed repayment before he tried it.

Jindal said the state would not build the remaining five barrier islands approved by the corps without a guarantee it would be reimbursed by BP or the federal trust fund.

Sand berm to protect Barataria Bay wetlands gets federal OK | NOLA.com

As for your shell executive, his story sounds more like a conspiracy theory than anything else.

Could Cleanup Fix for Gulf Oil Spill Lie in Secret Saudi Disaster? - AOL News

"Secret" Saudi disaster?