To Declaw or not declaw

[Vel]

I don't read peta.

I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.

I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....

So basically you're saying that you won't give enough of yourself to rescue a cat from a shelter, but that you're happy to sit in judgement on someone who IS willing to save that life?

 

[koshergrl]

I don't read peta.

I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.

I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....

I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on. None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones. We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.

I don't get emotional about cats, for God's sakes, I killed one with a pipe once. If you think there's no suffering involved in nipping off those toes, and you don't consider it mutilation to do the same, I really don't know what to tell you, except maybe you should look up the term "mutilation".

I've said over adn over, they're yours to do with as you please, I could care less. But you're lying to yourself when you claim that cats don't need their claws, and it's not mutilation to remove them.

They DO use their claws, they are a part of their foot, with a specific purpose. It isn't like a dew claw that really has no purpose.

Looks to me like you're the one getting all emotional. Cut off all four feet if you like, I could care less. Then they wouldn't move at all, the only damage they'd cause would be when they crap where they lay.

 

[Flopper]

I don't read peta.

I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.

I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....

I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on. None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones. We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.

I don't get emotional about cats, for God's sakes, I killed one with a pipe once. If you think there's no suffering involved in nipping off those toes, and you don't consider it mutilation to do the same, I really don't know what to tell you, except maybe you should look up the term "mutilation".

I've said over adn over, they're yours to do with as you please, I could care less. But you're lying to yourself when you claim that cats don't need their claws, and it's not mutilation to remove them.

They DO use their claws, they are a part of their foot, with a specific purpose. It isn't like a dew claw that really has no purpose.

Looks to me like you're the one getting all emotional. Cut off all four feet if you like, I could care less. Then they wouldn't move at all, the only damage they'd cause would be when they crap where they lay.

You can own a dog, but you can't really own a cat. Yes, you can buy a cat and you have a receipt to prove ownership but they almost never recognizes that ownership. Dogs are pack animals and submit to authority. Cat's don't. A dog loves you because you're the master. A cat loves you because it chooses to do so.

I guess if you're more concerned about your furniture than your cat, then you will declaw the animal, but if that's the case why not just get a cat statue and skip the cat box cleaning and feeding.

 

[tinydancer]

that is the question.

Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.

I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.

this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.

I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.

Removing a cats claws is like removing your fingers. Cat's need their claws. They use them every day, not just to scratch your furniture. It helps them climb, jump, and play. Without their claws there're almost defenseless and they know it. And don't let anyone tell you removing their claws is painless. Imagine having all your fingernails cut out. A lot of vets will not do the operation. I have not seen any animal welfare groups recommend it.

We have had at least a dozen cats over many years. The best cats were the ones with claws. I think they were more confident and just more fun to own. If you can stand an occasional scratch, let your cat keep its claw the way nature intended.

Claws are not anything other than nails. To make this out like cats are losing all ability to live is so foolish.

Please. And I'm not a fan of the procedure. But I do consider it no different than being part and parcel of spaying and neutering.

And those that would decry others in the cat world who have adopted a cat that has been declawed or those that would declaw to give a cat a home are the type of rigid individuals who would see animals die than go into a home with children.

I've seen this crap in my life. The Toronto Humane Society people had the most bizarre rules for adoption. On the bright side all the bastards are getting prosecuted now for a variety of things, but these people while taking in millions of dollars in donations would rather execute a cat or a dog if you did not meet these insane rigid standards they put in place.

All for the "animal's welfare".

 

[saveliberty]

I don't read peta.

I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.

I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....

So basically you're saying that you won't give enough of yourself to rescue a cat from a shelter, but that you're happy to sit in judgement on someone who IS willing to save that life?

No, but if need someone to take the cat out back and bash it with a pipe, she's your gal!

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

I don't read peta.

I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.

I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....

I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on. None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones. We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.

I used to watch Hershey. Yes she was a chocalate point siamese that my husbands ex wife never had an any imagination in naming a beastie.

But Hersh would grab Pyewacket with her front legs, declawed, but just grab him and nail the new little kitty with her back legs going a freaking mile a minute and killing him with her teeth at the same time.

Holy freaking toledo!!! I'm still amazed Wacky loved her in the end. But they formed a bond. Go figure. Cat world. But trust me declawed didn't mean jack shit.

Yeah, well, I have dogs and cats both, and I've seen what the cats do when a dog gets too pushy with them. They swipe at the dog with their CLAWS. Which is how my dogs know not to get too pushy with the cats...once is enough when it comes to a swipe on the delicate nose with claws.

Go ahead, rationalize away. I'm glad I was able to wake up and realize what a selfish bitch I was being when I declawed cats.

The least I can do to atone is speak up about it.

By the way, my cats do stuff like that, grabbing and kicking with the back feet, and biting. It's all part of their arsenal, totally typical cat fighting behavior, in addition to using their front claws. My house cats will get into spats, but interestingly enough, no one ever gets hurt. A stray I brought in, on the other hand, had a large wound on his front shoulder. I asked the vet if he had been bitten by a dog and he said no...most likely bitten by another cat. A dog would've done more damage. So out on the streets, in a survival situation, they do hurt each other. And plenty of people declaw their cats and let them go outside, or even worse end up abandoning them at some point.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

that is the question.

Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.

I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.

this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.

I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.

Removing a cats claws is like removing your fingers. Cat's need their claws. They use them every day, not just to scratch your furniture. It helps them climb, jump, and play. Without their claws there're almost defenseless and they know it. And don't let anyone tell you removing their claws is painless. Imagine having all your fingernails cut out. A lot of vets will not do the operation. I have not seen any animal welfare groups recommend it.

We have had at least a dozen cats over many years. The best cats were the ones with claws. I think they were more confident and just more fun to own. If you can stand an occasional scratch, let your cat keep its claw the way nature intended.

Claws are not anything other than nails. To make this out like cats are losing all ability to live is so foolish.

Please. And I'm not a fan of the procedure. But I do consider it no different than being part and parcel of spaying and neutering.

And those that would decry others in the cat world who have adopted a cat that has been declawed or those that would declaw to give a cat a home are the type of rigid individuals who would see animals die than go into a home with children.

I've seen this crap in my life. The Toronto Humane Society people had the most bizarre rules for adoption. On the bright side all the bastards are getting prosecuted now for a variety of things, but these people while taking in millions of dollars in donations would rather execute a cat or a dog if you did not meet these insane rigid standards they put in place.

All for the "animal's welfare".

First of all, cats claws are not at all like our fingernails or dog toenails. They are connected to bone, our fingernails are not.

Secondly, no one is saying declawed cats lose all ability to live.

Thirdly, it is totally different that spaying and neutering. Which would you rather have, a hysterectomy or all your fingers cut off at the first joint? Huh? Sure the cat will adapt, but it shouldn't have to adapt. That's the point.

Fourthly, no one is decrying anyone who adopts cats that are already declawed. In fact, I recommend that caring and intelligent people DO adopt cats someone has already declawed, because they are special needs kitties now.

Quit twisting what people are saying.

By the way, if you had seen what people who work in rescue have seen, you would understand some of those rules that are put in place for adopting animals. Unimaginable cruelty and suffering that people subject animals to. That's why they're careful about who adopts the animals.

 

[Provocateur]

I don't read peta.

I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.

I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....

I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on. None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones. We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.

I don't get emotional about cats, for God's sakes, I killed one with a pipe once. If you think there's no suffering involved in nipping off those toes, and you don't consider it mutilation to do the same, I really don't know what to tell you, except maybe you should look up the term "mutilation".

I've said over adn over, they're yours to do with as you please, I could care less. But you're lying to yourself when you claim that cats don't need their claws, and it's not mutilation to remove them.

They DO use their claws, they are a part of their foot, with a specific purpose. It isn't like a dew claw that really has no purpose.

Looks to me like you're the one getting all emotional. Cut off all four feet if you like, I could care less. Then they wouldn't move at all, the only damage they'd cause would be when they crap where they lay.

San Francisco is trying to ban circumcision. This must make you happy.


Who is getting emotional?

 

[koshergrl]

I don't read peta.

I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.

I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....

So basically you're saying that you won't give enough of yourself to rescue a cat from a shelter, but that you're happy to sit in judgement on someone who IS willing to save that life?

What the hell are you talking about? That's quite a stretch. I've rescued plenty of cats. I don't have them now because I have a dog that doesn't tolerate them

 

[koshergrl]

Incidentally, a shelter dog.

 

[WillowTree]

I must be the odd man out but that's okay. I've owned 5 kitties in my lifetime. Pookie, Bandit, Samantha, Mama Kitty and Diddle McFiddle. Samatha died age 18, Pookie and Bandit were around 15,, Mama and Diddle are still with me, Diddle is still a baby .. all were and have been declawed. They are happy and I am happy.. Outdoor kitties with claws have a life expectancy of what? 3-5 years..Indoors they are happy, well fed, disease free and live like kings. and we have hunting parties every day.

 

[signelect]

Contrary to popular opinion cats can be trained. Claws are their only defense if they every get outside they can be killed because they can't fight and they can't climb.

 

[Ringel05]

I don't read peta.

I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.

I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....

I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on. None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones. We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.

I don't get emotional about cats, for God's sakes, I killed one with a pipe once. If you think there's no suffering involved in nipping off those toes, and you don't consider it mutilation to do the same, I really don't know what to tell you, except maybe you should look up the term "mutilation".

I've said over adn over, they're yours to do with as you please, I could care less. But you're lying to yourself when you claim that cats don't need their claws, and it's not mutilation to remove them.

They DO use their claws, they are a part of their foot, with a specific purpose. It isn't like a dew claw that really has no purpose.

Looks to me like you're the one getting all emotional. Cut off all four feet if you like, I could care less. Then they wouldn't move at all, the only damage they'd cause would be when they crap where they lay.

I guess I assume people know the difference between conscious emotive rationalization and unconsciousness emotive rationalization (rationalization refers to the continuous cognitive construct, not "making excuses"). No I'm not lying, there is no objective proof that cats cannot survive in the wild lacking their front claws or that their survival rate is any lower than fully clawed cats.
As to your claim of mutilation, while "technically" correct by one aspect of the definition, given it's social connotation, that statement lends itself more to the classic example of unconscious emotive rationalization.
Oh and I never once claimed their claws had no purpose though in controlled environments (like a household) that purpose is in all reality unnecessary by today's standards, i.e. cats, for the most part in suburban areas, are no longer needed to rid the household of rodents which was their "social" role in the past.
So am I getting emotional over it, no, I'm getting clinical over it.

 

[koshergrl]

So you read more into it than was meant by it, based on your own emotional response. Thank you, apology accepted.

I honestly don't care if people declaw their cats. I, personally, think it's silly and unnecessary...if your furniture is so valuable that you can't bear the thought of kitties clawing it, perhaps a different pet is in order. But that's just me. Declaw them all. Bob their tails, crop their ears....give them tattoos and colored contacts if that's your thing, I don't care.

But don't waste your breath trying to convince me it isn't mutiliation. Of course it's mutiliation. You can justify it, and I don't care if you do, I trust you take care of them and the trauma is fairly minimal (provided they don't get infections). I just don't like it when people try to pull the wool over my eyes.

 

[Ringel05]

So you read more into it than was meant by it, based on your own emotional response. Thank you, apology accepted.

I honestly don't care if people declaw their cats. I, personally, think it's silly and unnecessary...if your furniture is so valuable that you can't bear the thought of kitties clawing it, perhaps a different pet is in order. But that's just me. Declaw them all. Bob their tails, crop their ears....give them tattoos and colored contacts if that's your thing, I don't care.

But don't waste your breath trying to convince me it isn't mutiliation. Of course it's mutiliation. You can justify it, and I don't care if you do, I trust you take care of them and the trauma is fairly minimal (provided they don't get infections). I just don't like it when people try to pull the wool over my eyes.

Whatever you say Skippy.

 

[koshergrl]

*insert smiley here* since I apparently can't find an icon...

 

[WillowTree]

So you read more into it than was meant by it, based on your own emotional response. Thank you, apology accepted.

I honestly don't care if people declaw their cats. I, personally, think it's silly and unnecessary...if your furniture is so valuable that you can't bear the thought of kitties clawing it, perhaps a different pet is in order. But that's just me. Declaw them all. Bob their tails, crop their ears....give them tattoos and colored contacts if that's your thing, I don't care.

But don't waste your breath trying to convince me it isn't mutiliation. Of course it's mutiliation. You can justify it, and I don't care if you do, I trust you take care of them and the trauma is fairly minimal (provided they don't get infections). I just don't like it when people try to pull the wool over my eyes.

You are of course welcome to your opinion and it is respected. I however reserve the same right. And, all this pro and con stuff was discussed with the chopper upper aka vet in question. so thanks but no thanks.

 

[Ringel05]

*insert smiley here* since I apparently can't find an icon...

with a capital D)

 

[koshergrl]

D: :d

Yeah, just not working for me but you get the picture.

 

[Flopper]

that is the question.

Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.

I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.

this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.

I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.

Removing a cats claws is like removing your fingers. Cat's need their claws. They use them every day, not just to scratch your furniture. It helps them climb, jump, and play. Without their claws there're almost defenseless and they know it. And don't let anyone tell you removing their claws is painless. Imagine having all your fingernails cut out. A lot of vets will not do the operation. I have not seen any animal welfare groups recommend it.

We have had at least a dozen cats over many years. The best cats were the ones with claws. I think they were more confident and just more fun to own. If you can stand an occasional scratch, let your cat keep its claw the way nature intended.

Claws are not anything other than nails. To make this out like cats are losing all ability to live is so foolish.

Please. And I'm not a fan of the procedure. But I do consider it no different than being part and parcel of spaying and neutering.

And those that would decry others in the cat world who have adopted a cat that has been declawed or those that would declaw to give a cat a home are the type of rigid individuals who would see animals die than go into a home with children.

I've seen this crap in my life. The Toronto Humane Society people had the most bizarre rules for adoption. On the bright side all the bastards are getting prosecuted now for a variety of things, but these people while taking in millions of dollars in donations would rather execute a cat or a dog if you did not meet these insane rigid standards they put in place.

All for the "animal's welfare".

As I said, if the your furniture, rug or whatever is more important than your cat, declaw the animal. However, anyone who knows anything about cats knows that it effects the cats ability to climb, their balance, and their ability to defend themselves. When they loose their claws they become fearful of jumping, living on the floor or low pieces of furniture. They use their claws to pick things up just like humans use their fingers. If they get lost, their chance of survival is not too good. They can't hunt and they can't defend themselves.

I've had many cats with claws and some that were declawed. IMHO, cats with claws are happier and more fun to own.