Three things at a time

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Nosmo King, Apr 15, 2011.

  1. Nosmo King
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    Nosmo King Gold Member

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    There are way too many issues to debate and disagree over, so i thought I'd bring up three issues here, debate the various aspects of them, solve the problems they pose and move on to three other issues.

    These three things have been like a burr under my saddle for some time.

    First: oil speculation. I fully understand why a commodity market is necessary. I even understand somewhat, how they operate. I cannot understand why an individual or group should be allowed to participate in that market unless they are actually going to take delivery of the commodities.

    The way I see it, it's almost as if I go into a convenience store to buy a Snicker's bar. There they are on the rack clearly labeled $.75. I pick one up and as I carry it to the clerk, someone with a price gun says 'I think that Snicker's bar should be worth $.80' and changes the price. Then, someone else figures that candy bar is actually worth $1.00 and changes the price again. By the time I make it to the counter, someone else has affixed a price tag reading $1.15 to my Snicker's bar.

    Now, none of these folks ever had any notion of actually eating the candy bar. But the clerk takes my $1.15, pays M&M Mars $.75 for the candy (the original price) and divvies up the remaining forty cents with the goons changing the price on it.

    Why do we permit speculation on commodities when those bidding up the price don't take delivery on what they have been bidding on?

    The second item stuck in my craw is the notion of greed. We've heard a lot about greed lately. Conservatives tell us that unionized teachers, firefighters, policemen and road crews are greedy. The backbone of the middle class is daily accused of committing one of the seven deadly sins.

    Liberals tell us that CEOs making exponentially more money than their average employees are greedy. Companies laying off thousands of workers find the bushels of cash to pay bonuses and benefits to those in the executive suite. Conservatives tell us that the pay scale is so A) jobs can be created B) the very best talent in the business world can be retained and these companies can continue to prosper and C) it's part and parcel of our basic freedoms to be paid as much as we can get away with (the John Dillinger syndrome)

    So what makes for a greedy person? A middle class family trying to put aside a nest egg, provide for their children and enjoy a higher standard of living or; a company president making 700 times what that company's average employee makes?

    And finally, I wonder about those advocating a smaller, less intrusive government while they also advocate for government control over reproductive freedom. I guess a government telling a painting contractor how to stage ladders and scaffolding is intrusive but a government making a frightened 18 year old endure a three day waiting period during which she is inculcated with a stifling right wing morality tale is just dandy.

    Which is it? Shrinking government down to the size of a uterus, or a real advocacy for freedom?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  2. Two Thumbs
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    Two Thumbs Platinum Member

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    Oil; ya HAD to go with the speculators and the comedians. Well I can say w/o a doubt that I have no friggin clue what the hell is going on with that. But I do know this; It aint funny.

    Greed; both are greedy. If the owner is pulling in silly amounts while his people have to get welfare to keep going, then he's in the wrong.
    A union worker getting $45/hr to put 1 wiper blade on and the lid to the wper fluid on, is also greedy. There's no way on gawds green earth you can convince me that job is worth it.

    popping bobies; Here's where I shock and awe you by telling you not all conservatives agree on this issue. I'm fine with abortion, just don't try to preatty it up as anything other than the death of a baby.

    Abortion was a "discovered" right, owning a fire arm is a well explained right.

    Guns are severly regulated in many states [state rights], and is supported by the left. Wouldn't it make sense that you would also support strct regualtions of abortion by states [states rights]?
     
  3. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Reproductive freedom? Why don't you just call it what it is. Killing your unborn children. You take issue with the government protecting life? That's one of the three main reasons the whole system was created to do!

    As for greed, it's not determined by the amount of money people have or what they make. It's determined by an attitude. It can affect the rich and the poor and it can likewise not effect the rich and the poor. Trying to divide people against one another because of their success or lack there of in the market is just plain wrong.
     
  4. Nosmo King
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    Nosmo King Gold Member

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    Well, if abortion is killing unborn children, what do they call it when the freezer space in an in-vitro fertilization clinic reaches maximum capacity and something has to be discarded?

    And if we continue to consolidate wealth in fewer and fewer hands by way of cutting taxes and looking the other way when TARP money supplies bonuses, how can the economy grow? Aren't the basics of an economy the exchange of money for goods and services? If we put the bulk of the capital in just a few hands, how can their spending stimulate that exchange? Wouldn't more folks having disposable income make for a greater opportunity to make the economy move?
     
  5. Nosmo King
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    Nosmo King Gold Member

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    I just can't get past the apparent double standard about greed. Seems Conservatives go through all manner of intellectual gymnastics to justify the consolidation of wealth and find the middle class to be just too coddled and pampered for their own good. Makes no sense as I gotta believe most of the Conservatives are middle class themselves.
     
  6. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    Leviathan gubmint crushes freedom as a matter of course, therefore your dichotomy is false.
     
  7. Two Thumbs
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    Two Thumbs Platinum Member

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    I don't see the double standard.

    ok

    Lets say I put in 16-20 hours a day to get my company going.
    After an average (I think) of 3 failures, one takes off. I have to keep working 16-20 hours to keep it going good, after 15-20 years I come across enough people that I no longer have to work like a dog. I'm filty rich and now I can enjoy it. I have hundreds and maybe 1000's of people working for me.
    Am I a bad person for becoming rich beyond my dreams?


    Lets say, after HS I get a job putting widgets into wodgets, the only hard part about my job is that it's boring, but I work 8 hours a day. If I don't show, someone can fill in, no proproblem.
    Have I earned the right, or have a reason to expect, any wealth, any thing at all?
     
  8. Intense
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    Intense Senior Member

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    Well, I don't think the State should be paying for your Ammo, your Gun's, or your Abortion needs. I don't support Monopolies or bailouts, that is not Free Market Capitalism. I don't think there is a viable substitute for "Value for Value", I know one thing, taking from the Producers under false pretense, is unethical and criminal, no matter how it is disguised. WE did not give anything to the producers that hasn't been repaid many times over. You need to get out of the Entitlement mind set.
     
  9. Two Thumbs
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    Greed from anyone, at any level of income is good.

    Unless it becomes consuming.
     
  10. The Rabbi
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    The Rabbi Diamond Member

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    I can't neg rep you again but you deserve it.
    You clearly do not understand speculation or commodities markets if you think they relate to a Snickers bar.

    What is greed? It is wanting something that doesn't belong to you. CEOs can be as greedy as they want. But someone has to agree to pay them. The issue with unions is that the people who agree to pay them and the people actually paying them are two separate parties. So I can easily spend someone else's money rather than make my life miserable.
    Gov't is the last resort in protecting life. Abortion is murder. I think government should outlaw murder and enforce it.
     

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