This Is Israel, cnt...

[turzovka]

Now go look at your favorite sources (which no doubt publish the unvarnished truth because Arabs have a history of that) and look at population census and statistics. Even in your dubious journals you will note an exponential Arab migration to this land when?... in the early 1900’s through the early 1940’s. That is the very same time the Jews legally came to this land. What a coincidence, hey? The Jews move in and make the wasteland prosper, create industry, and then all of a sudden an explosion of Arabs come in looking for employment opportunities --- which they were given!

In fact, there are over 2 million Arabs living in Israel proper doing far better than their counterparts who remain staunch enemies of Israel. Why? Because the Jews treat them more fairly in every way possible.

Why are there so many people like you out there who are obsessed with making Jews and Israel look like the devil or the aggressor when it is all total lies??!!

You are absolutely and completely full of shit!

According to UN records...

The transformation of Mandated Palestine
At the culmination of a quarter century of Mandatory rule, Palestine had been radically transformed in demographic terms.

- The population of Palestine had increased tremendously - from the 750,000 of the 1922 census to almost 1,850,000 at the end of 1946 - an increase of nearly 250 per cent.

- During this period the Jewish population had soared from 56,000 after the First World War to 84,000 in 1922 to 608,000 in 1946, an increase of about 725 per cent.

- From constituting less than a tenth of the population in Palestine after the First World War, the Jewish community in 1947 constituted nearly a third.

- A good part of this was due to births within Palestine but legal immigration alone accounted for over 376,000,

- with illegal immigration being estimated at another 65,000 - a total of 440,000.

- This Jewish population was primarily urban - about 70 per cent to 75 per cent in and around the cities of Jerusalem, Jaffa-Tel Aviv and Haifa.​

So according to the UN at the turn of the century, there was 3/4's of a million people in that area, with only 56,000 being Jewish.

And since you are so in to quotes, how about one from a famous Zionist humanist?

"...the settlers [migrating Jews] must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives [indigenous Arab residents] ... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination."
- Ahad Ha'am​

That last comment gives insight to the genesis of all the hostility in that area that has continued to today.

Basically, you moved into the neighborhood and immediately started treating all the residents there like garbage. Who wouldn't get pissed off over that? If you came into my neighborhood and tried to pull that shit off with me, we're gonna throw down!

If you ask me, the Arabs waited far too long before they got violent.

Did you have a point to make, I missed it?

The point I made was simple. It was only because of the Jews moving in which caused a huge influx of Arabs from Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, et al. And for some odd reason we are to recognize them as a race called Palestinians. They are no different than their neighbors, but apparently they have a claim to that land they never lived on until the Jews turned it into an economic sustainable region. Fact.

If there were 600,000 Arabs in that region that is not Israel proper. That whole area was part of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish ruled until after WW1) and there were no sovereign or formal countries or boundaries. This includes all of Jordan which was given exclusively to the Arabs living in greater Palestine and which was more than 75% of that region. The remaining portion which includes Israel, Gaza and the West Bank which was divided between the Jewish people and the Arabs living there. Of course it was the Arabs who went into a frenzy over anything that had a Jewish presence.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

Under the Ottoman Empire (1517-1917), the term Palestine was used as a general term to describe the land south of Syria; it was not an official designation. In fact, many Ottomans and Arabs who lived in Palestine during this time period referred to the area as "Southern Syria" and not as "Palestine."

I still do not get your point? The Jewish presence was every bit as legal as all the Arabs who moved in, and even more honorable and proper. The Jews at least paid the Ottoman Turks and the absentee wealthy Egyptian landlords for their worthless, unoccupied tracks of land. In a land that was nobody’s country, nation or parcel. There were no boundaries except for a huge territory controlled by the Ottoman empire that eventually became Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Israel et al. So what?

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

I don't think this is correct either.

If you ask me, the Arabs waited far too long before they got violent.

(COMMENT)

The regional Arabs that we call Arab Palestinians today; those that do nothing but complain and largely survive on donor contributions, have been violent and enemy combatants for quit some time. The Grand Mufti that organized the 1929 Riots was both a Military Officer for the Ottoman Empire (WWI) and a collaborator with the NAZI Regime (WWII). The first Prime Minister of the failed All Palestine Government was a former General Officer in the Ottoman Military. The cleric and teacher Izz ad-din al-Qassam was the founder of the Palestinian Black Hand. Fawzi al-Qawuqji, Commander of the Arab Liberation Army during the 1948 War, was an WWII enemy combatant, trained by the Germans. Hasan Salama, commander of the Palestinian Holy War Army during the 1948 War, was a Special Commando trained by Waffen SS as a Paratrooper, working for German Intelligence in collaboration with Grand Mufti al-Husseini, during WWII. (The list goes on and on.)

The Arab Palestinians had been violent and consistent enemies to the peace process and the Allied Powers through two World Wars, then participants in the 1948 Assault on Israel.

One needs only to look at the trouble in the Muslim World today, and the troublesome groups operating against regional peace, to understand that is was predictable given their past history of enemy criminal behaviors.

√ "Arabs waited far too long before they got violent" --- give me a break!
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You misunderstand what is meant by a "right."

Violations of people's rights do not negate them.

(COMMENT)

I, you, everyone, has the "right" to earn a million dollars, the "right" to own a home, the "right" to pursue happiness. But you also have the "right" to be a failure as well.

Just because you don't actually earn a million dollars, does not mean your "rights" were violated or made void; or in any way negated. It simply means you failed to achieve your possible potential. Just because you don't have a home, does not mean your "rights" were violated. Merely that you did not have the potential to achieve that asset.

AND, just because the Arab Palestinian did not get to obtain, and were unable to achieve, their political aspirations, does not mean their "right" to try was somehow negated.

Don't confuse the "right" to something as an absolute to attainment. The right to sovereignty, as a person or collectively as a nation, is really a conditional pursuit. If you do not have the capability to successfully achieve that pursuit --- is no ones fault but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is a difference between unable to achieve and being prevented at the point of a gun.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure this is a correct assessment.

(COMMENT)

Which came first? The suicide bombings and hijackings?

Occupation came first.

(COMMENT)

The period for which the occupied Palestinian territories (oPt) began in June 1967. However, the Palestinians were not occupied. In the West Bank, the Jordanians were occupied; and the Peace Treaty with the Jordanians ended that occupation in October 1994. The Gaza Strip was a protectorate under an Egyptian Military Governorship and was also occupied in June 1967. That occupation was ended by a Peace Treaty with Egypt in March 1979.

The oPt were occupied over two decades before there was any such thing as the State of Palestine. The sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated, was not established until seven (7) years after (1974) the Israeli occupation of the territories began; and it was yet another decade (10 years) before the "sole legitimate representatives" declared independence in 1988 (a total of 17 years after the fact).

As is generally implied in these discussions, relative to the oPt, sovereignty implies the Palestinians have lawful control over it's territory --- to the exclusion of other states. It implies that the Palestinians have the authority to govern the territory and the authority to apply law.

(QUESTION)

Has any post-1988 Palestinian Authority --- represented by one centralized government --- ever exercised sovereignty over the entirety of the geographic area known as the oPt?

(COMMENT)

I suggest that it is highly questionable if the Arab-Palestinians have ever established sufficient control over the oPt such that it could, at some point, claim sovereignty or independence in the sense international law commonly understands as necessary for the creation of a self-governing state. Whatever borders the Hostile Arab Palestinians claim as their territory, it is such that the Hostile Arab Palestinians never had physical control and never established self-governance.

Did "occupation" come first? If it did, then the Hostile Arab Palestinians never had the authority to establish self-governance and rule.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have been occupied since Britain landed with the Zionist lobbied Balfour declaration in its pocket. They have been defending themselves since then.

The Palestinians have had the right to establish self-governance and rule since 1924 but that right has been violated by external interference since then.

Violations of people's rights do not negate them.

WRONG again as it was not a class A mandate, and they were given 78% of Palestine for their homeland.

It was the arab muslim outside interference that stopped them from doing anything, so blame them

What rights were extant in 1917, 1923, 1948, 1967 and 1988 that were violated ?

 

[Phoenall]

Now go look at your favorite sources (which no doubt publish the unvarnished truth because Arabs have a history of that) and look at population census and statistics. Even in your dubious journals you will note an exponential Arab migration to this land when?... in the early 1900’s through the early 1940’s. That is the very same time the Jews legally came to this land. What a coincidence, hey? The Jews move in and make the wasteland prosper, create industry, and then all of a sudden an explosion of Arabs come in looking for employment opportunities --- which they were given!

In fact, there are over 2 million Arabs living in Israel proper doing far better than their counterparts who remain staunch enemies of Israel. Why? Because the Jews treat them more fairly in every way possible.

Why are there so many people like you out there who are obsessed with making Jews and Israel look like the devil or the aggressor when it is all total lies??!!

You are absolutely and completely full of shit!

According to UN records...

The transformation of Mandated Palestine
At the culmination of a quarter century of Mandatory rule, Palestine had been radically transformed in demographic terms.

- The population of Palestine had increased tremendously - from the 750,000 of the 1922 census to almost 1,850,000 at the end of 1946 - an increase of nearly 250 per cent.

- During this period the Jewish population had soared from 56,000 after the First World War to 84,000 in 1922 to 608,000 in 1946, an increase of about 725 per cent.

- From constituting less than a tenth of the population in Palestine after the First World War, the Jewish community in 1947 constituted nearly a third.

- A good part of this was due to births within Palestine but legal immigration alone accounted for over 376,000,

- with illegal immigration being estimated at another 65,000 - a total of 440,000.

- This Jewish population was primarily urban - about 70 per cent to 75 per cent in and around the cities of Jerusalem, Jaffa-Tel Aviv and Haifa.​

So according to the UN at the turn of the century, there was 3/4's of a million people in that area, with only 56,000 being Jewish.

And since you are so in to quotes, how about one from a famous Zionist humanist?

"...the settlers [migrating Jews] must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives [indigenous Arab residents] ... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination."
- Ahad Ha'am​

That last comment gives insight to the genesis of all the hostility in that area that has continued to today.

Basically, you moved into the neighborhood and immediately started treating all the residents there like garbage. Who wouldn't get pissed off over that? If you came into my neighborhood and tried to pull that shit off with me, we're gonna throw down!

If you ask me, the Arabs waited far too long before they got violent.

Because it is in the UN archives does not mean that it is truthful or reality. Look at the source and you see arab muslim propaganda at its best,

The numbers are not according to the UN but to the Division for Palestinian Rights an islamonazi organisation.


You are the one that moved into the neighbourhood when you went to America, I and my family have lived in England for the last 1,000 years when the records were kept. Who was it that poisoned the Natives, infected them with smallpox or just shot them where they stood. The survivors were then herded into desolate inhospitable lands to die or eke out a living the best they could. So don't complain when the Native Americans start taking back what is theirs piece by tiny piece because you are the standard for what you claim the Jews are doing in Palestine.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, even that --- by any measure, has a competency and achievement aspect to it.

P F Tinmore, et al,

You misunderstand what is meant by a "right."

Violations of people's rights do not negate them.

(COMMENT)

I, you, everyone, has the "right" to earn a million dollars, the "right" to own a home, the "right" to pursue happiness. But you also have the "right" to be a failure as well.

Just because you don't actually earn a million dollars, does not mean your "rights" were violated or made void; or in any way negated. It simply means you failed to achieve your possible potential. Just because you don't have a home, does not mean your "rights" were violated. Merely that you did not have the potential to achieve that asset.

AND, just because the Arab Palestinian did not get to obtain, and were unable to achieve, their political aspirations, does not mean their "right" to try was somehow negated.

Don't confuse the "right" to something as an absolute to attainment. The right to sovereignty, as a person or collectively as a nation, is really a conditional pursuit. If you do not have the capability to successfully achieve that pursuit --- is no ones fault but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is a difference between unable to achieve and being prevented at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

Five Armies of the Arab League and two asymmetric forces of irregular Palestinians against one Israeli Armed Force.

PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department
Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.
​

It is a matter of perspective, and subjective. The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians claim they were not defeated. Some others have a more practical view from a ground truth reality. Needless to say, the Israelis were not the only ones with guns.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, even that --- by any measure, has a competency and achievement aspect to it.

P F Tinmore, et al,

You misunderstand what is meant by a "right."

Violations of people's rights do not negate them.

(COMMENT)

I, you, everyone, has the "right" to earn a million dollars, the "right" to own a home, the "right" to pursue happiness. But you also have the "right" to be a failure as well.

Just because you don't actually earn a million dollars, does not mean your "rights" were violated or made void; or in any way negated. It simply means you failed to achieve your possible potential. Just because you don't have a home, does not mean your "rights" were violated. Merely that you did not have the potential to achieve that asset.

AND, just because the Arab Palestinian did not get to obtain, and were unable to achieve, their political aspirations, does not mean their "right" to try was somehow negated.

Don't confuse the "right" to something as an absolute to attainment. The right to sovereignty, as a person or collectively as a nation, is really a conditional pursuit. If you do not have the capability to successfully achieve that pursuit --- is no ones fault but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is a difference between unable to achieve and being prevented at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

Five Armies of the Arab League and two asymmetric forces of irregular Palestinians against one Israeli Armed Force.

PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department
Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.
​

It is a matter of perspective, and subjective. The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians claim they were not defeated. Some others have a more practical view from a ground truth reality. Needless to say, the Israelis were not the only ones with guns.

Most Respectfully,
R

Little do they know.

The fighting in the 1948 war ended by an armistice that was called by UN Security Council resolution. The five Arab armies did not lose that war.

 

[turzovka]

The fighting in the 1948 war ended by an armistice that was called by UN Security Council resolution. The five Arab armies did not lose that war.

The five Arab armies lost something far greater than the war in 1948. Their honor and truth.

Seven well funded armies attacking a band of immigrants and they could not prevail. Still doesn't tell you something about the eternal?

The Jews will always be persecuted as long as the devil is given reign.

 

[Billo_Really]

Did you have a point to make, I missed it?

The point I made was simple. It was only because of the Jews moving in which caused a huge influx of Arabs from Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, et al. And for some odd reason we are to recognize them as a race called Palestinians. They are no different than their neighbors, but apparently they have a claim to that land they never lived on until the Jews turned it into an economic sustainable region. Fact.

If there were 600,000 Arabs in that region that is not Israel proper. That whole area was part of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish ruled until after WW1) and there were no sovereign or formal countries or boundaries. This includes all of Jordan which was given exclusively to the Arabs living in greater Palestine and which was more than 75% of that region. The remaining portion which includes Israel, Gaza and the West Bank which was divided between the Jewish people and the Arabs living there. Of course it was the Arabs who went into a frenzy over anything that had a Jewish presence.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

Under the Ottoman Empire (1517-1917), the term Palestine was used as a general term to describe the land south of Syria; it was not an official designation. In fact, many Ottomans and Arabs who lived in Palestine during this time period referred to the area as "Southern Syria" and not as "Palestine."

I still do not get your point? The Jewish presence was every bit as legal as all the Arabs who moved in, and even more honorable and proper. The Jews at least paid the Ottoman Turks and the absentee wealthy Egyptian landlords for their worthless, unoccupied tracks of land. In a land that was nobody’s country, nation or parcel. There were no boundaries except for a huge territory controlled by the Ottoman empire that eventually became Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Israel et al. So what?

I can already tell, you didn't have the balls to read a fucking thing I said.

Here are the official land records in 1948...





...showing Arabs owned 90% of the land.

 

[rylah]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, even that --- by any measure, has a competency and achievement aspect to it.

P F Tinmore, et al,

You misunderstand what is meant by a "right."

Violations of people's rights do not negate them.

(COMMENT)

I, you, everyone, has the "right" to earn a million dollars, the "right" to own a home, the "right" to pursue happiness. But you also have the "right" to be a failure as well.

Just because you don't actually earn a million dollars, does not mean your "rights" were violated or made void; or in any way negated. It simply means you failed to achieve your possible potential. Just because you don't have a home, does not mean your "rights" were violated. Merely that you did not have the potential to achieve that asset.

AND, just because the Arab Palestinian did not get to obtain, and were unable to achieve, their political aspirations, does not mean their "right" to try was somehow negated.

Don't confuse the "right" to something as an absolute to attainment. The right to sovereignty, as a person or collectively as a nation, is really a conditional pursuit. If you do not have the capability to successfully achieve that pursuit --- is no ones fault but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is a difference between unable to achieve and being prevented at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

Five Armies of the Arab League and two asymmetric forces of irregular Palestinians against one Israeli Armed Force.

PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department
Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.
​

It is a matter of perspective, and subjective. The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians claim they were not defeated. Some others have a more practical view from a ground truth reality. Needless to say, the Israelis were not the only ones with guns.

Most Respectfully,
R

Little do they know.

The fighting in the 1948 war ended by an armistice that was called by UN Security Council resolution. The five Arab armies did not lose that war.

As long as the famous Arab pride is not hurt...
Go tell the story of 48 war to regular anbiased people on the street and ask them who lost.

 

[rylah]

Did you have a point to make, I missed it?

The point I made was simple. It was only because of the Jews moving in which caused a huge influx of Arabs from Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, et al. And for some odd reason we are to recognize them as a race called Palestinians. They are no different than their neighbors, but apparently they have a claim to that land they never lived on until the Jews turned it into an economic sustainable region. Fact.

If there were 600,000 Arabs in that region that is not Israel proper. That whole area was part of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish ruled until after WW1) and there were no sovereign or formal countries or boundaries. This includes all of Jordan which was given exclusively to the Arabs living in greater Palestine and which was more than 75% of that region. The remaining portion which includes Israel, Gaza and the West Bank which was divided between the Jewish people and the Arabs living there. Of course it was the Arabs who went into a frenzy over anything that had a Jewish presence.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

Under the Ottoman Empire (1517-1917), the term Palestine was used as a general term to describe the land south of Syria; it was not an official designation. In fact, many Ottomans and Arabs who lived in Palestine during this time period referred to the area as "Southern Syria" and not as "Palestine."

I still do not get your point? The Jewish presence was every bit as legal as all the Arabs who moved in, and even more honorable and proper. The Jews at least paid the Ottoman Turks and the absentee wealthy Egyptian landlords for their worthless, unoccupied tracks of land. In a land that was nobody’s country, nation or parcel. There were no boundaries except for a huge territory controlled by the Ottoman empire that eventually became Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Israel et al. So what?

I can already tell, you didn't have the balls to read a fucking thing I said.

Here are the official land records in 1948...





...showing Arabs owned 90% of the land.

Exactly they were Arabs, not balestinians...late arrivals (invaders) with no state

 

[turzovka]

Did you have a point to make, I missed it?

The point I made was simple. It was only because of the Jews moving in which caused a huge influx of Arabs from Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, et al. And for some odd reason we are to recognize them as a race called Palestinians. They are no different than their neighbors, but apparently they have a claim to that land they never lived on until the Jews turned it into an economic sustainable region. Fact.

If there were 600,000 Arabs in that region that is not Israel proper. That whole area was part of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish ruled until after WW1) and there were no sovereign or formal countries or boundaries. This includes all of Jordan which was given exclusively to the Arabs living in greater Palestine and which was more than 75% of that region. The remaining portion which includes Israel, Gaza and the West Bank which was divided between the Jewish people and the Arabs living there. Of course it was the Arabs who went into a frenzy over anything that had a Jewish presence.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

Under the Ottoman Empire (1517-1917), the term Palestine was used as a general term to describe the land south of Syria; it was not an official designation. In fact, many Ottomans and Arabs who lived in Palestine during this time period referred to the area as "Southern Syria" and not as "Palestine."

I still do not get your point? The Jewish presence was every bit as legal as all the Arabs who moved in, and even more honorable and proper. The Jews at least paid the Ottoman Turks and the absentee wealthy Egyptian landlords for their worthless, unoccupied tracks of land. In a land that was nobody’s country, nation or parcel. There were no boundaries except for a huge territory controlled by the Ottoman empire that eventually became Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Israel et al. So what?

I can already tell, you didn't have the balls to read a fucking thing I said.

Here are the official land records in 1948...





...showing Arabs owned 90% of the land.

You hardly unnerve me.

You make no legitimate case against Jewish settlers moving into that region.

You deceive by diversions from troubling facts you care not to address. There are scores of points and issues that can be raised where your Arab allies in the region have no answer or look like criminal aggressors. Since 1900!

Apparently none of that bothers you? All you have are some numbers that there were more Arab people in the greater region of Palestine than there were Jews or people of other race. Yes, I know that. So what? I cannot belabor your vagueness.

 

[docmauser1]

...showing Arabs owned 90% of the land.

Yeah right, all palistanian settlers-squatters had been saudi sheikhs and owned 90% of the land.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, even that --- by any measure, has a competency and achievement aspect to it.

P F Tinmore, et al,

You misunderstand what is meant by a "right."

Violations of people's rights do not negate them.

(COMMENT)

I, you, everyone, has the "right" to earn a million dollars, the "right" to own a home, the "right" to pursue happiness. But you also have the "right" to be a failure as well.

Just because you don't actually earn a million dollars, does not mean your "rights" were violated or made void; or in any way negated. It simply means you failed to achieve your possible potential. Just because you don't have a home, does not mean your "rights" were violated. Merely that you did not have the potential to achieve that asset.

AND, just because the Arab Palestinian did not get to obtain, and were unable to achieve, their political aspirations, does not mean their "right" to try was somehow negated.

Don't confuse the "right" to something as an absolute to attainment. The right to sovereignty, as a person or collectively as a nation, is really a conditional pursuit. If you do not have the capability to successfully achieve that pursuit --- is no ones fault but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is a difference between unable to achieve and being prevented at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

Five Armies of the Arab League and two asymmetric forces of irregular Palestinians against one Israeli Armed Force.

PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department
Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.
​

It is a matter of perspective, and subjective. The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians claim they were not defeated. Some others have a more practical view from a ground truth reality. Needless to say, the Israelis were not the only ones with guns.

Most Respectfully,
R

Little do they know.

The fighting in the 1948 war ended by an armistice that was called by UN Security Council resolution. The five Arab armies did not lose that war.

As long as the famous Arab pride is not hurt...
Go tell the story of 48 war to regular anbiased people on the street and ask them who lost.

Just ask yourself.

What did Lebanon lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Jordan lose?
What did Iraq lose?
What did Egypt lose?

 

[docmauser1]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, even that --- by any measure, has a competency and achievement aspect to it.

P F Tinmore, et al,

You misunderstand what is meant by a "right."

(COMMENT)

I, you, everyone, has the "right" to earn a million dollars, the "right" to own a home, the "right" to pursue happiness. But you also have the "right" to be a failure as well.

Just because you don't actually earn a million dollars, does not mean your "rights" were violated or made void; or in any way negated. It simply means you failed to achieve your possible potential. Just because you don't have a home, does not mean your "rights" were violated. Merely that you did not have the potential to achieve that asset.

AND, just because the Arab Palestinian did not get to obtain, and were unable to achieve, their political aspirations, does not mean their "right" to try was somehow negated.

Don't confuse the "right" to something as an absolute to attainment. The right to sovereignty, as a person or collectively as a nation, is really a conditional pursuit. If you do not have the capability to successfully achieve that pursuit --- is no ones fault but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is a difference between unable to achieve and being prevented at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

Five Armies of the Arab League and two asymmetric forces of irregular Palestinians against one Israeli Armed Force.

PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department
Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.
​

It is a matter of perspective, and subjective. The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians claim they were not defeated. Some others have a more practical view from a ground truth reality. Needless to say, the Israelis were not the only ones with guns.

Most Respectfully,
R

Little do they know.

The fighting in the 1948 war ended by an armistice that was called by UN Security Council resolution. The five Arab armies did not lose that war.

As long as the famous Arab pride is not hurt...
Go tell the story of 48 war to regular anbiased people on the street and ask them who lost.

Just ask yourself.

What did Lebanon lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Jordan lose?
What did Iraq lose?
What did Egypt lose?

What did palistanians lose?

 

[rylah]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, even that --- by any measure, has a competency and achievement aspect to it.

P F Tinmore, et al,

You misunderstand what is meant by a "right."

(COMMENT)

I, you, everyone, has the "right" to earn a million dollars, the "right" to own a home, the "right" to pursue happiness. But you also have the "right" to be a failure as well.

Just because you don't actually earn a million dollars, does not mean your "rights" were violated or made void; or in any way negated. It simply means you failed to achieve your possible potential. Just because you don't have a home, does not mean your "rights" were violated. Merely that you did not have the potential to achieve that asset.

AND, just because the Arab Palestinian did not get to obtain, and were unable to achieve, their political aspirations, does not mean their "right" to try was somehow negated.

Don't confuse the "right" to something as an absolute to attainment. The right to sovereignty, as a person or collectively as a nation, is really a conditional pursuit. If you do not have the capability to successfully achieve that pursuit --- is no ones fault but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is a difference between unable to achieve and being prevented at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

Five Armies of the Arab League and two asymmetric forces of irregular Palestinians against one Israeli Armed Force.

PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department
Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.
​

It is a matter of perspective, and subjective. The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians claim they were not defeated. Some others have a more practical view from a ground truth reality. Needless to say, the Israelis were not the only ones with guns.

Most Respectfully,
R

Little do they know.

The fighting in the 1948 war ended by an armistice that was called by UN Security Council resolution. The five Arab armies did not lose that war.

As long as the famous Arab pride is not hurt...
Go tell the story of 48 war to regular anbiased people on the street and ask them who lost.

Just ask yourself.

What did Lebanon lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Jordan lose?
What did Iraq lose?
What did Egypt lose?

their pride, numerous times. Jews remained and prospered in spite of all advantages and claims by the Arabs to annihilate them .

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You misunderstand what is meant by a "right."

Violations of people's rights do not negate them.

(COMMENT)

I, you, everyone, has the "right" to earn a million dollars, the "right" to own a home, the "right" to pursue happiness. But you also have the "right" to be a failure as well.

Just because you don't actually earn a million dollars, does not mean your "rights" were violated or made void; or in any way negated. It simply means you failed to achieve your possible potential. Just because you don't have a home, does not mean your "rights" were violated. Merely that you did not have the potential to achieve that asset.

AND, just because the Arab Palestinian did not get to obtain, and were unable to achieve, their political aspirations, does not mean their "right" to try was somehow negated.

Don't confuse the "right" to something as an absolute to attainment. The right to sovereignty, as a person or collectively as a nation, is really a conditional pursuit. If you do not have the capability to successfully achieve that pursuit --- is no ones fault but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is a difference between unable to achieve and being prevented at the point of a gun.

And you can provide the evidence that the Palestinians were prevented from achieving free determination at the point of a gun. Why haven't we seen the news of the gun being held to the head of the Palestinian representative in the UN chamber when he was about to announce the Palestinians last steps towards free determination ?

Because that is all the Palestinians need to do to achieve full and complete free determination and a nation with recognised borders.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, even that --- by any measure, has a competency and achievement aspect to it.

P F Tinmore, et al,

You misunderstand what is meant by a "right."

Violations of people's rights do not negate them.

(COMMENT)

I, you, everyone, has the "right" to earn a million dollars, the "right" to own a home, the "right" to pursue happiness. But you also have the "right" to be a failure as well.

Just because you don't actually earn a million dollars, does not mean your "rights" were violated or made void; or in any way negated. It simply means you failed to achieve your possible potential. Just because you don't have a home, does not mean your "rights" were violated. Merely that you did not have the potential to achieve that asset.

AND, just because the Arab Palestinian did not get to obtain, and were unable to achieve, their political aspirations, does not mean their "right" to try was somehow negated.

Don't confuse the "right" to something as an absolute to attainment. The right to sovereignty, as a person or collectively as a nation, is really a conditional pursuit. If you do not have the capability to successfully achieve that pursuit --- is no ones fault but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is a difference between unable to achieve and being prevented at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

Five Armies of the Arab League and two asymmetric forces of irregular Palestinians against one Israeli Armed Force.

PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department
Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.
​

It is a matter of perspective, and subjective. The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians claim they were not defeated. Some others have a more practical view from a ground truth reality. Needless to say, the Israelis were not the only ones with guns.

Most Respectfully,
R

Little do they know.

The fighting in the 1948 war ended by an armistice that was called by UN Security Council resolution. The five Arab armies did not lose that war.

They did as they did not win anything in the process, they lost land that could have been theirs. They lost face when Jewish farmers with tractors and farm tools beat arab army soldiers with rifles, tanks and shells. They lost street cred when they had to go cap in hand to the UN and ask them to implement a ceasefire. So they lost and that is why they call it a catastrophe to this day

 

[Phoenall]

Did you have a point to make, I missed it?

The point I made was simple. It was only because of the Jews moving in which caused a huge influx of Arabs from Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, et al. And for some odd reason we are to recognize them as a race called Palestinians. They are no different than their neighbors, but apparently they have a claim to that land they never lived on until the Jews turned it into an economic sustainable region. Fact.

If there were 600,000 Arabs in that region that is not Israel proper. That whole area was part of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish ruled until after WW1) and there were no sovereign or formal countries or boundaries. This includes all of Jordan which was given exclusively to the Arabs living in greater Palestine and which was more than 75% of that region. The remaining portion which includes Israel, Gaza and the West Bank which was divided between the Jewish people and the Arabs living there. Of course it was the Arabs who went into a frenzy over anything that had a Jewish presence.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

Under the Ottoman Empire (1517-1917), the term Palestine was used as a general term to describe the land south of Syria; it was not an official designation. In fact, many Ottomans and Arabs who lived in Palestine during this time period referred to the area as "Southern Syria" and not as "Palestine."

I still do not get your point? The Jewish presence was every bit as legal as all the Arabs who moved in, and even more honorable and proper. The Jews at least paid the Ottoman Turks and the absentee wealthy Egyptian landlords for their worthless, unoccupied tracks of land. In a land that was nobody’s country, nation or parcel. There were no boundaries except for a huge territory controlled by the Ottoman empire that eventually became Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Israel et al. So what?

I can already tell, you didn't have the balls to read a fucking thing I said.

Here are the official land records in 1948...





...showing Arabs owned 90% of the land.

NOPE it shows that propaganda was in place even back then to discredit the Jews. The arab designation included Ottoman muslims who did hold title until the Mandate of Palestine was brought to fulfillment when it was changed to Jewish and arab muslim owned land. The arab land being trans Jordan and the Jewish land being Israel.

And as I have told you before this is not an official UN map as it is not mentioned in any resolution regarding palestine

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, even that --- by any measure, has a competency and achievement aspect to it.

P F Tinmore, et al,

You misunderstand what is meant by a "right."

(COMMENT)

I, you, everyone, has the "right" to earn a million dollars, the "right" to own a home, the "right" to pursue happiness. But you also have the "right" to be a failure as well.

Just because you don't actually earn a million dollars, does not mean your "rights" were violated or made void; or in any way negated. It simply means you failed to achieve your possible potential. Just because you don't have a home, does not mean your "rights" were violated. Merely that you did not have the potential to achieve that asset.

AND, just because the Arab Palestinian did not get to obtain, and were unable to achieve, their political aspirations, does not mean their "right" to try was somehow negated.

Don't confuse the "right" to something as an absolute to attainment. The right to sovereignty, as a person or collectively as a nation, is really a conditional pursuit. If you do not have the capability to successfully achieve that pursuit --- is no ones fault but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is a difference between unable to achieve and being prevented at the point of a gun.

(COMMENT)

Five Armies of the Arab League and two asymmetric forces of irregular Palestinians against one Israeli Armed Force.

PLO-Negotiation Affairs Department
Almost immediately after the Partition Plan vote, organized Jewish militias began military campaigns to seize control over even more of historic Palestine’s territory than the UN partition plan had proposed. On May 14, 1948, after months of military expansion, Zionist forces declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The next day, neighboring Arab armies attacked Israel in reaction to the eruption . However, Israeli forces defeated Arab forces and by the end of the war in 1949, Israel controlled 78 percent of historic Palestine.
​

It is a matter of perspective, and subjective. The pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians claim they were not defeated. Some others have a more practical view from a ground truth reality. Needless to say, the Israelis were not the only ones with guns.

Most Respectfully,
R

Little do they know.

The fighting in the 1948 war ended by an armistice that was called by UN Security Council resolution. The five Arab armies did not lose that war.

As long as the famous Arab pride is not hurt...
Go tell the story of 48 war to regular anbiased people on the street and ask them who lost.

Just ask yourself.

What did Lebanon lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Jordan lose?
What did Iraq lose?
What did Egypt lose?

Better to ask what did they win. Then ask what have the arab muslim Palestinians ever won in the last 100 years ?