There is NO RISK in privatizing SS and investing in stock market!!!

[bripat9643]

There is no law which prevents every person in this country from making retirement investments. Paying into SS & Medicare is like buying insurance, with one very important distinction - the money you put in you will get back if you live long enough; and if you live to a ripe old age you will receive more.

All this crap about how great investments are, are predicted on best case scenarios. In October 2008 reality hit home for too many Americans whose plans went awry. That home worth half a million dollars was underwater because the financial services industry offered 'wonderful' second and third mortgages, with a "What Me Worry" guarantee; and others experienced more paper money disappear as the stocks they held lost value.

But, they didn't lose the insurance they held in SS and Medicare. I suspect that those above are solely interested in getting their greedy little hands on other peoples money to play with - for a fee of course. Concern for the working men and women is their last consideration, as can be seen in the disdain they hold for those who haven't planned ahead. Yes, some people are lazy, some wait until tomorrow (which never comes), some earned too little and some spend everything they have on necessities or toys. Many will need the safety net and it's not going anywhere soon.

More bullshit...Social Security is the same kind of "insurance" that businessmen in Boston bought from Whitey Bulger. I guess you might call it "fire" insurance. Like those people, my money is taken from me at gunpoint.

Someone (I think Androw) posted an analysis of the WORST-case...getting into the market just before the 1929 crash, and getting out just AFTER the most recent crash. Guess what: had you done that, you would still have MADE money! (I cannot link to the post because the board's search function hasn't been working for three days.)

Feel free to (try) and not pay into SS and medicare; the irony there is the government will feed, cloth, house and provide you with medical care.

I suppose (Androw's post) that would be true, if one invested in precious metals, especially gold. Waiting nearly 80 years for a pay off seems a bit silly (what was the life expectancy for someone born in 1929, in 1929? Answer: 58 years).

He knows you aren't free to not pay FICA taxes. That was his point, moron. That's what makes it the same kind of "insurance" you pay to Guido the Leg Breaker.

 

[MikeK]

What is to stop social security to become a for profit nightmare? That's the real issue.

Presuming you mean if Social Security is privatized and the Fund is placed under the control of some Wall Street operation, I'd say your comment is spot on.

I'll go so far as to say privatization of the Social Security Fund would be comparable to placing one's infant sons in the long-term care of NAMBLA's executive committee.

 

[bendog]

What is to stop social security to become a for profit nightmare? That's the real issue.

Explain why it would be a nightmare? Instead of costing the government in debt there would be a profit.
See the problem with people like you is you take the exceptional and make it the rule!
YES there is no question there have been Enrons in the world as well as Solyndras!
They are the exceptions!
Most "for profit" organizations are made up of people unlike you who are normal. Go to work. Do their job. Get their paycheck.
What is wrong with that? Frankly I have a whole lot more respect for the "for profits" because they contribute to the betterment of society versus the "non-profits" which are a DRAG!
Non profits constantly looking for hand outs ...from the for profits!
We have a President that has NEVER worked for a for profit organization and thus he detests as obviously you do "for profits".
How stupid. Obama was paid by the Annenberg Foundation that was formed by
Walter Hubert Annenberg (March 13, 1908 – October 1, 2002) was an American publisher, philanthropist, and diplomat most
of his wealth coming from TV Guide!
Think of it! You bought TV Guides. The evil profits paid Obama's salary. And forever the idiot Obama wants to do away with for profits!
And you again with your "evil for profit nightmare" are just as ignorant as Obama!

A for profit nightmare would be some privatization that would allow for people within 10 years or so of retirement to allocate assets to high risk investments, and then if markets tanked they'd have insufficient means to live. I realize that to Ayn Randians that's just tough shite and they starve, but in a practical world having old people starving is not acceptable to capitalists because the effect on normal people is they then lose faith in capital markets, which is how soc sec came about in the first place.

 

[Care4all]

SS HAS worked for three generations. It is not socialism nor is it a Ponzi Scheme. Yes, some people are irresponsible and callous conservatives will be happy to step over their bodies - most of us will not.

Of course it's a ponzi scheme. You'd have to be a brainless idiotic leftard to not realize that.

You take money from X to pay for W, and the take money from Y to pay for X, and then take from Z to pay for Y.

That is EXACTLY how a ponzi scheme works. Bernie Madoff, got money from new investors to pay for old investors, then money from newer investors to pay for the new investors, than he ran out of investors to pay for the newer investors, and the system crashed.

That is EXACTLY what is happening in Social Security, and you are just too plain stupid to figure it out.

The 60s - 70s generation paid for the WW2 generation. Then the 80s - 90s Generation is paying the 60s - 70s generation. Now the Current generation is trying to be forced to pay for the 80s - 90s Generation, except we're starting to refuse to do it.

So instead they are cutting benefits. Raise the retirement age to 70 or higher.

Why? Can't find enough workers to pay for the takers. To many people drinking the water, and not enough carrying it. Just like Madoff, the system is running out of other people's money to take.

If you think it's a really not a Ponzi scheme, then you are just ignorant. Flat out, ignorant.

A PonzI Scheme is a fraudulent act ; the social security act is law. Are you really that dumb, or are you a liar?

If we made a law that you are an idiot, that would make it true huh? We can just legislate reality? If they passed a law that "Madoff investment was not a ponzi scheme", then it wouldn't be, not because it was any different than a ponzi scheme, because the law said it wasn't?

You realize that you are a perfect character in Ayn Rands Atlas Shrugged? The age of reason is dead, and because the law says SS is not a ponzi scheme, then it isn't... because we said so.... therefore it's not.... no matter how functionally it is.

Moron, there is no FRAUD, thus it is not a crime. No one is lead to believe that SS is all one needs in retirement. Some people choose to rely solely on SS, some need to do to circumstances.

I didn't say it was a crime stupid. You are the dumbest idiot I gave a chance to lately. You are proving yourself not worth reading.

Doesn't matter if it's a fraud or not.

Ponzi Schemes are Ponzi schemes, because of how they work. Take from Y to pay X, take from Z to pay Y. That's how it works.

And honestly.... IT IS FRAUDULENT. When you get your Social Security statement, which I happen to have, it says that I have an account with money in it.

Fact: I don't have an account with money in it. If I do, tell me the bank where the account is, where the money is located? Where are the investments? Where is my ROI statement? Doesn't exist.

With my Mutual fund, I can look up the stocks that are in my portfolio, and see I have stock in Walmart, Exxon, Ford, and a host of others. Actual assets, in an actual account, with *MY* name on it. ANd if I so choose, I can cash those assets out, and take my money back.... because it is *MY* money.

Social Security..... can't do any of that. It's a fraud. It's not real.

And also, much like a Ponzi Scheme, as the scheme runs out of money, people stop getting their dues. What do you think raising the retirement age to 70 is? It's exactly what I would expect from a ponzi scheme.

Then are you saying that ALL INSURANCE is a ponzi scheme? Because that is exactly how insurance works, you pay for the other people's accidents, or health care issues....while you are healthy and accident free....and you may go your whole life without ever having a car accident and without getting anything back in return.... or with health care, you pay your premium month after month and are never sick, while your insurance still gets paid by you and goes to pay for everyone else who is sick, and the provider's profit. Social security retirement is more like an annuity, but the SS early death insurance and disability insurance, runs just like any other private insurance....

 

[Andylusion]

What is to stop social security to become a for profit nightmare? That's the real issue.

I'm not seeing many 'for-profit-nightmares' in the private sector. My own mutual fund had a 26% return last year. Not exactly a nightmare in my book.

As for Social Security, that's been the profit nightmare already. All the money that went into Social Security, above what was required to pay to retirees, was given the Washington Politicians... and if you wonder what they did with it.... check out

U.S. National Debt Clock Real Time

We'll be at $18 Trillion in debt in a matter of months. The GDP of the entire country is only $16.8 Trillion.

If the Federal Government were to tax the entire country at 100% for an entire year, we'd still be in debt.

The sad part is, people are so dumb, that this fact doesn't scare the crap out of them.

 

[Billy000]

What is to stop social security to become a for profit nightmare? That's the real issue.

Explain why it would be a nightmare? Instead of costing the government in debt there would be a profit.
See the problem with people like you is you take the exceptional and make it the rule!
YES there is no question there have been Enrons in the world as well as Solyndras!
They are the exceptions!
Most "for profit" organizations are made up of people unlike you who are normal. Go to work. Do their job. Get their paycheck.
What is wrong with that? Frankly I have a whole lot more respect for the "for profits" because they contribute to the betterment of society versus the "non-profits" which are a DRAG!
Non profits constantly looking for hand outs ...from the for profits!
We have a President that has NEVER worked for a for profit organization and thus he detests as obviously you do "for profits".
How stupid. Obama was paid by the Annenberg Foundation that was formed by
Walter Hubert Annenberg (March 13, 1908 – October 1, 2002) was an American publisher, philanthropist, and diplomat most
of his wealth coming from TV Guide!
Think of it! You bought TV Guides. The evil profits paid Obama's salary. And forever the idiot Obama wants to do away with for profits!
And you again with your "evil for profit nightmare" are just as ignorant as Obama!

Actually if the wealthy were as taxed as they should be, we could better afford it. The wealthy could afford it too I promise. See the wealthy these days are investing less and less. Some investments that essentially becomes their personal wealth. They are keeping much of this money. 1% of the top earners own 40% of the nation's wealth.

God it gets so old when you brain dead right tards automatically jump to the conclusion that I am some unemployed deadbeat. I'm sure the accusation makes you think "boy I sure showed him!" but in reality it just makes you look like a moron for making such a baseless and laughable claim.
I work 40 hours a week. Don't believe me? I don't care.

How do you not understand the nature of a business? They want to maximize profit as much as they can. That means the poor would soon not be able to afford it.

Obama is worth 9 million. He obviously finds wealthy people important.

 

[bripat9643]

[...]

Of course it's a ponzi scheme. You'd have to be a brainless idiotic leftard to not realize that.

[...]

A Ponzi scheme is a progressive process in which the exponential projection is limited by the finite number of eligible participants, as in the example of Bernie Madoff's operation. The Social Security Program operates with an infinite, non-exponential participant projection -- which is why it has been functioning flawlessly since 1935.

That isn't what defines a Ponzi scheme. If it's been working so "flawlessly," then why have they reduced benefits and increased the FICA tax multiple times?

The only problem with Social Security's current status is failure to adapt to increasing life-expectancy by increasing eligibility age. As it is, the Program will function status-quo without any adjustments until 2037. But appropriate adjustments will ensure its flawless progress indefinitely.

Funny how private retirement vehicles have no such problem? Furthermore, how can it have a problem if it's working "flawlessly?" "Adjustments" are made because a program has flaws. If it had no flaws, it wouldn't need any "adjustments."

 

[percysunshine]

.

The sad truth is, Social Security is already invested in the stock market:



S&P 500 compared with. the Federal Reserve Balance Sheet

.

 

[bendog]

[...]

Of course it's a ponzi scheme. You'd have to be a brainless idiotic leftard to not realize that.

[...]

A Ponzi scheme is a progressive process in which the exponential projection is limited by the finite number of eligible participants, as in the example of Bernie Madoff's operation. The Social Security Program operates with an infinite, non-exponential participant projection -- which is why it has been functioning flawlessly since 1935.

That isn't what defines a Ponzi scheme. If it's been working so "flawlessly," then why have they reduced benefits and increased the FICA tax multiple times?

The only problem with Social Security's current status is failure to adapt to increasing life-expectancy by increasing eligibility age. As it is, the Program will function status-quo without any adjustments until 2037. But appropriate adjustments will ensure its flawless progress indefinitely.

Funny how private retirement vehicles have no such problem? Furthermore, how can it have a problem if it's working "flawlessly?" "Adjustments" are made because a program has flaws. If it had no flaws, it wouldn't need any "adjustments."

Simply bleating that taxes have been reduced and benefits too is not fitting the definition of a Ponzi scheme.

 

[bendog]

.

The sad truth is, Social Security is already invested in the stock market:



S&P 500 compared with. the Federal Reserve Balance Sheet

.

The fed's actually in the housing market.

 

[percysunshine]

.

The sad truth is, Social Security is already invested in the stock market:



S&P 500 compared with. the Federal Reserve Balance Sheet

.

The fed's actually in the housing market.

Sort of like a super duper Fannie Mae?

I thought they were bankers.

 

[bendog]

.

The sad truth is, Social Security is already invested in the stock market:



S&P 500 compared with. the Federal Reserve Balance Sheet

.

The fed's actually in the housing market.

Sort of like a super duper Fannie Mae?

I thought they were bankers.

you're not clever, you can't define Ponzi scheme, you have no clue as to the Fed, and take it to the fcking econ board.

 

[percysunshine]

.

The sad truth is, Social Security is already invested in the stock market:



S&P 500 compared with. the Federal Reserve Balance Sheet

.

The fed's actually in the housing market.

Sort of like a super duper Fannie Mae?

I thought they were bankers.

you're not clever, you can't define Ponzi scheme, you have no clue as to the Fed, and take it to the fcking econ board.

I never tried to define the term 'Ponzi scheme'. Are you drinking and posting?

.

 

[healthmyths]

What is to stop social security to become a for profit nightmare? That's the real issue.

Explain why it would be a nightmare? Instead of costing the government in debt there would be a profit.
See the problem with people like you is you take the exceptional and make it the rule!
YES there is no question there have been Enrons in the world as well as Solyndras!
They are the exceptions!
Most "for profit" organizations are made up of people unlike you who are normal. Go to work. Do their job. Get their paycheck.
What is wrong with that? Frankly I have a whole lot more respect for the "for profits" because they contribute to the betterment of society versus the "non-profits" which are a DRAG!
Non profits constantly looking for hand outs ...from the for profits!
We have a President that has NEVER worked for a for profit organization and thus he detests as obviously you do "for profits".
How stupid. Obama was paid by the Annenberg Foundation that was formed by
Walter Hubert Annenberg (March 13, 1908 – October 1, 2002) was an American publisher, philanthropist, and diplomat most
of his wealth coming from TV Guide!
Think of it! You bought TV Guides. The evil profits paid Obama's salary. And forever the idiot Obama wants to do away with for profits!
And you again with your "evil for profit nightmare" are just as ignorant as Obama!

Actually if the wealthy were as taxed as they should be, we could better afford it. The wealthy could afford it too I promise. See the wealthy these days are investing less and less. Some investments that essentially becomes their personal wealth. They are keeping much of this money. 1% of the top earners own 40% of the nation's wealth.

God it gets so old when you brain dead right tards automatically jump to the conclusion that I am some unemployed deadbeat. I'm sure the accusation makes you think "boy I sure showed him!" but in reality it just makes you look like a moron for making such a baseless and laughable claim.
I work 40 hours a week. Don't believe me? I don't care.

How do you not understand the nature of a business? They want to maximize profit as much as they can. That means the poor would soon not be able to afford it.

Obama is worth 9 million. He obviously finds wealthy people important.

So why don't YOU become wealthy?
Did you know that in 1850, the US was home to 19 millionaires.
But the years following the Civil War had seen a considerable increase in membership of that exclusive club.
By the end of the 1890's the number of millionaires in the US had swelled to more than 4,000.
A quarterly report prepared by the Economist Intelligence Unit on behalf of Barclays Wealth in 2007 estimated that there were 16,600,000 millionaires in the USA
Millionaire - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
4,000 millionaires in 1890 40 times that ..16.6 million millionaires in 2007!
Population in 1890 there were 62,947,714 or a ratio of 1 million for every 15,736 people.
Population in 2014 317,297,938 number of millionaires: 4,000,000 or a ratio of 1 millionaire for every 793 people!
U.S. Population 2014 317 Million and 7.1 Billion in the World - US News
Now of course idiots will say a million dollars isn't the same in 1890 as it is in 2014.
So what? My point is there is a greater opportunity to be a millionaire today then anytime before and all idiots like you want to do
is steal from those that have it!
You rob the rich idiots are like a pack of wild dogs. You see someone who has more then you and you like a wild dog tear at it!
How gauche. How uncivilized.
People like me (and I'm no millionaire!!!) laugh though at people like you because instead of doing something you bitch and moan
about the WEALTHY! Geez work at something other then a 40 hour job for someone else. Build your own fortune and today there
is more opportunities for it then ever! In fact IF YOU BILLY want an idea and a domain name I've registered that will if you want to work at it make you and me a millionaire I'll be happy to share! I'm just getting too old and lack the energy... but if you are still putting in 40 hours I'd be happy to share with you how we both could become millionaires from this idea.

You want to partner and become a millionaire???
Become a creator not a destroyer. Grow the pie bigger don't be like a dog and simply try to take away from someone else.
That's what animals do!

 

[bendog]

What is to stop social security to become a for profit nightmare? That's the real issue.

Explain why it would be a nightmare? Instead of costing the government in debt there would be a profit.
See the problem with people like you is you take the exceptional and make it the rule!
YES there is no question there have been Enrons in the world as well as Solyndras!
They are the exceptions!
Most "for profit" organizations are made up of people unlike you who are normal. Go to work. Do their job. Get their paycheck.
What is wrong with that? Frankly I have a whole lot more respect for the "for profits" because they contribute to the betterment of society versus the "non-profits" which are a DRAG!
Non profits constantly looking for hand outs ...from the for profits!
We have a President that has NEVER worked for a for profit organization and thus he detests as obviously you do "for profits".
How stupid. Obama was paid by the Annenberg Foundation that was formed by
Walter Hubert Annenberg (March 13, 1908 – October 1, 2002) was an American publisher, philanthropist, and diplomat most
of his wealth coming from TV Guide!
Think of it! You bought TV Guides. The evil profits paid Obama's salary. And forever the idiot Obama wants to do away with for profits!
And you again with your "evil for profit nightmare" are just as ignorant as Obama!

Actually if the wealthy were as taxed as they should be, we could better afford it. The wealthy could afford it too I promise. See the wealthy these days are investing less and less. Some investments that essentially becomes their personal wealth. They are keeping much of this money. 1% of the top earners own 40% of the nation's wealth.

God it gets so old when you brain dead right tards automatically jump to the conclusion that I am some unemployed deadbeat. I'm sure the accusation makes you think "boy I sure showed him!" but in reality it just makes you look like a moron for making such a baseless and laughable claim.
I work 40 hours a week. Don't believe me? I don't care.

How do you not understand the nature of a business? They want to maximize profit as much as they can. That means the poor would soon not be able to afford it.

Obama is worth 9 million. He obviously finds wealthy people important.

So why don't YOU become wealthy?
Did you know that in 1850, the US was home to 19 millionaires.
But the years following the Civil War had seen a considerable increase in membership of that exclusive club.
By the end of the 1890's the number of millionaires in the US had swelled to more than 4,000.
A quarterly report prepared by the Economist Intelligence Unit on behalf of Barclays Wealth in 2007 estimated that there were 16,600,000 millionaires in the USA
Millionaire - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
4,000 millionaires in 1890 40 times that ..16.6 million millionaires in 2007!
Population in 1890 there were 62,947,714 or a ratio of 1 million for every 15,736 people.
Population in 2014 317,297,938 number of millionaires: 4,000,000 or a ratio of 1 millionaire for every 793 people!
U.S. Population 2014 317 Million and 7.1 Billion in the World - US News
Now of course idiots will say a million dollars isn't the same in 1890 as it is in 2014.
So what? My point is there is a greater opportunity to be a millionaire today then anytime before and all idiots like you want to do
is steal from those that have it!
You rob the rich idiots are like a pack of wild dogs. You see someone who has more then you and you like a wild dog tear at it!
How gauche. How uncivilized.
People like me (and I'm no millionaire!!!) laugh though at people like you because instead of doing something you bitch and moan
about the WEALTHY! Geez work at something other then a 40 hour job for someone else. Build your own fortune and today there
is more opportunities for it then ever! In fact IF YOU BILLY want an idea and a domain name I've registered that will if you want to work at it make you and me a millionaire I'll be happy to share! I'm just getting too old and lack the energy... but if you are still putting in 40 hours I'd be happy to share with you how we both could become millionaires from this idea.

You want to partner and become a millionaire???
Become a creator not a destroyer. Grow the pie bigger don't be like a dog and simply try to take away from someone else.
That's what animals do!

So, social security makes retired workers "takers" and not creators." How'd this work out for in in 2012?

And further, in addition to making you out as an overbearing shmuck who could be living in a basement, how the f is this relevant to alternative means of financing soc sec?

 

[Billy000]

What is to stop social security to become a for profit nightmare? That's the real issue.

Explain why it would be a nightmare? Instead of costing the government in debt there would be a profit.
See the problem with people like you is you take the exceptional and make it the rule!
YES there is no question there have been Enrons in the world as well as Solyndras!
They are the exceptions!
Most "for profit" organizations are made up of people unlike you who are normal. Go to work. Do their job. Get their paycheck.
What is wrong with that? Frankly I have a whole lot more respect for the "for profits" because they contribute to the betterment of society versus the "non-profits" which are a DRAG!
Non profits constantly looking for hand outs ...from the for profits!
We have a President that has NEVER worked for a for profit organization and thus he detests as obviously you do "for profits".
How stupid. Obama was paid by the Annenberg Foundation that was formed by
Walter Hubert Annenberg (March 13, 1908 – October 1, 2002) was an American publisher, philanthropist, and diplomat most
of his wealth coming from TV Guide!
Think of it! You bought TV Guides. The evil profits paid Obama's salary. And forever the idiot Obama wants to do away with for profits!
And you again with your "evil for profit nightmare" are just as ignorant as Obama!

Actually if the wealthy were as taxed as they should be, we could better afford it. The wealthy could afford it too I promise. See the wealthy these days are investing less and less. Some investments that essentially becomes their personal wealth. They are keeping much of this money. 1% of the top earners own 40% of the nation's wealth.

God it gets so old when you brain dead right tards automatically jump to the conclusion that I am some unemployed deadbeat. I'm sure the accusation makes you think "boy I sure showed him!" but in reality it just makes you look like a moron for making such a baseless and laughable claim.
I work 40 hours a week. Don't believe me? I don't care.

How do you not understand the nature of a business? They want to maximize profit as much as they can. That means the poor would soon not be able to afford it.

Obama is worth 9 million. He obviously finds wealthy people important.

So why don't YOU become wealthy?
Did you know that in 1850, the US was home to 19 millionaires.
But the years following the Civil War had seen a considerable increase in membership of that exclusive club.
By the end of the 1890's the number of millionaires in the US had swelled to more than 4,000.
A quarterly report prepared by the Economist Intelligence Unit on behalf of Barclays Wealth in 2007 estimated that there were 16,600,000 millionaires in the USA
Millionaire - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
4,000 millionaires in 1890 40 times that ..16.6 million millionaires in 2007!
Population in 1890 there were 62,947,714 or a ratio of 1 million for every 15,736 people.
Population in 2014 317,297,938 number of millionaires: 4,000,000 or a ratio of 1 millionaire for every 793 people!
U.S. Population 2014 317 Million and 7.1 Billion in the World - US News
Now of course idiots will say a million dollars isn't the same in 1890 as it is in 2014.
So what? My point is there is a greater opportunity to be a millionaire today then anytime before and all idiots like you want to do
is steal from those that have it!
You rob the rich idiots are like a pack of wild dogs. You see someone who has more then you and you like a wild dog tear at it!
How gauche. How uncivilized.
People like me (and I'm no millionaire!!!) laugh though at people like you because instead of doing something you bitch and moan
about the WEALTHY! Geez work at something other then a 40 hour job for someone else. Build your own fortune and today there
is more opportunities for it then ever! In fact IF YOU BILLY want an idea and a domain name I've registered that will if you want to work at it make you and me a millionaire I'll be happy to share! I'm just getting too old and lack the energy... but if you are still putting in 40 hours I'd be happy to share with you how we both could become millionaires from this idea.

You want to partner and become a millionaire???
Become a creator not a destroyer. Grow the pie bigger don't be like a dog and simply try to take away from someone else.
That's what animals do!

You people automatically jump to this retarded conclusion that I hate the wealthy or I hate capitalism. Everything is so black and white with you people. I am against privatizing SS therefore I must be against the free market. It's such childlike thinking. In reality I am perfectly okay with the free market and CEO's being well paid. What I do have a problem with is the average CEO making 350x more than the average worker. I just want to close the gap. I want people to be paid a wage they can live off of and one that keeps up with inflation. The last time a person making $10 an hour and could easily live of of it was in the 60's. That is how behind wages are. Does that seem fair to you considering how wealthy these job creators are in this day and age?

 

[Andylusion]

What is to stop social security to become a for profit nightmare? That's the real issue.

Explain why it would be a nightmare? Instead of costing the government in debt there would be a profit.
See the problem with people like you is you take the exceptional and make it the rule!
YES there is no question there have been Enrons in the world as well as Solyndras!
They are the exceptions!
Most "for profit" organizations are made up of people unlike you who are normal. Go to work. Do their job. Get their paycheck.
What is wrong with that? Frankly I have a whole lot more respect for the "for profits" because they contribute to the betterment of society versus the "non-profits" which are a DRAG!
Non profits constantly looking for hand outs ...from the for profits!
We have a President that has NEVER worked for a for profit organization and thus he detests as obviously you do "for profits".
How stupid. Obama was paid by the Annenberg Foundation that was formed by
Walter Hubert Annenberg (March 13, 1908 – October 1, 2002) was an American publisher, philanthropist, and diplomat most
of his wealth coming from TV Guide!
Think of it! You bought TV Guides. The evil profits paid Obama's salary. And forever the idiot Obama wants to do away with for profits!
And you again with your "evil for profit nightmare" are just as ignorant as Obama!

A for profit nightmare would be some privatization that would allow for people within 10 years or so of retirement to allocate assets to high risk investments, and then if markets tanked they'd have insufficient means to live. I realize that to Ayn Randians that's just tough shite and they starve, but in a practical world having old people starving is not acceptable to capitalists because the effect on normal people is they then lose faith in capital markets, which is how soc sec came about in the first place.

Well which system is better.... The current system were people are held in poverty by high taxes their entire life, so they can get $12,000 a year and live in object poverty until they die?

Or a system where people can keep their own money, and determine their own destiny?

Old people are living in poverty already because of your system, and worse, just like Ayn Rand predicted, people are suspicious and hate each other, over government hand outs right now.

You system has resulted in exactly the type of hatred, you claim your policies are a remedy for. Exactly what was written in Atlas Shrugged in 1957. She was dead on accurate.

And why not? People defraud Medicare and Social Security, and all government programs constantly. And unlike a private business... if you defraud a company, the company loses money. If you defraud the government... *WE* lose money. So naturally we're suspicious, breeding hate and contempt for each other, exactly as Atlas Shrugged described.

And that's the fraud. What about the built in special privileged? What special privileged? Some groups are exempt from Social Security. Others are not. Some are covered industries, and others are not. Some have special benefits, no others have. Rail Road employees for example, get a way better deal than employees of any other group.

If your retirement fund said that your neighbor was going to get a much larger retirement than you, even if you put in more money.... wouldn't you be a bit bitter about that? You might cancel your policy, and move your money elsewhere. Oh.... that's right, you can't do that with Social Security.

Or how about the fact that Social Security is a regressive tax, that generally penalizes those on the lowest income level greater than those at the top? At the same time, until you reach the top income levels, you get to pay more and more for only mildly better benefits.

If your insurance company said that you had to pay higher premiums this year, not because your benefits went up, but rather because you earned more..... how long would you keep that policy? Answer? Doesn't matter because with Social Security, you have no choice in the matter.

And here's the history you refuse to accept.

There was never a demand for social security. It had to be marketed and packaged to the public. No one wanted Social Security, until they claimed it wouldn't cost much, and there would be tons of benefits. But that 1% tax, is a far cry from the 15% we enjoy paying government today.

 

[Andylusion]

What is to stop social security to become a for profit nightmare? That's the real issue.

Explain why it would be a nightmare? Instead of costing the government in debt there would be a profit.
See the problem with people like you is you take the exceptional and make it the rule!
YES there is no question there have been Enrons in the world as well as Solyndras!
They are the exceptions!
Most "for profit" organizations are made up of people unlike you who are normal. Go to work. Do their job. Get their paycheck.
What is wrong with that? Frankly I have a whole lot more respect for the "for profits" because they contribute to the betterment of society versus the "non-profits" which are a DRAG!
Non profits constantly looking for hand outs ...from the for profits!
We have a President that has NEVER worked for a for profit organization and thus he detests as obviously you do "for profits".
How stupid. Obama was paid by the Annenberg Foundation that was formed by
Walter Hubert Annenberg (March 13, 1908 – October 1, 2002) was an American publisher, philanthropist, and diplomat most
of his wealth coming from TV Guide!
Think of it! You bought TV Guides. The evil profits paid Obama's salary. And forever the idiot Obama wants to do away with for profits!
And you again with your "evil for profit nightmare" are just as ignorant as Obama!

A for profit nightmare would be some privatization that would allow for people within 10 years or so of retirement to allocate assets to high risk investments, and then if markets tanked they'd have insufficient means to live. I realize that to Ayn Randians that's just tough shite and they starve, but in a practical world having old people starving is not acceptable to capitalists because the effect on normal people is they then lose faith in capital markets, which is how soc sec came about in the first place.

Sorry for the double post. I wanted to add this. Investing isn't rocket science, or a Ph.D level education. I could easily teach you everything you need to know to invest, in about 2 hours max.

If people are irresponsible, then I have no problem with them facing the consequences of bad choices. In fact, that's the most caring thing you can do, because people see those consequences and learn to do better.

If your alcoholic brother is going broke, and you bail him out, he'll never learn to change his lifestyle, and you'll doom him, and all those that see that if they follow his path someone will bail them out.

The most compassionate thing you can do is let him fail completely, and when he reaches the bottom of the pit, and there's no direction to look but up, then he might come to his senses and change.

Same thing on a society level, with retirement. People don't save for retirement when they think society will bail them out. It's a fact.

On the other hand, if the problem is what you claim it is, in that people are just not educated......... ok...... whose fault is that? The leftards have promoted the virtue of a public education, and have had control of our public schools for 50 years plus.

So whose fault is it that people don't know the fundamentals of saving and investing? What the heck have you idiots been teaching in those schools?

 

[healthmyths]

What is to stop social security to become a for profit nightmare? That's the real issue.

Explain why it would be a nightmare? Instead of costing the government in debt there would be a profit.
See the problem with people like you is you take the exceptional and make it the rule!
YES there is no question there have been Enrons in the world as well as Solyndras!
They are the exceptions!
Most "for profit" organizations are made up of people unlike you who are normal. Go to work. Do their job. Get their paycheck.
What is wrong with that? Frankly I have a whole lot more respect for the "for profits" because they contribute to the betterment of society versus the "non-profits" which are a DRAG!
Non profits constantly looking for hand outs ...from the for profits!
We have a President that has NEVER worked for a for profit organization and thus he detests as obviously you do "for profits".
How stupid. Obama was paid by the Annenberg Foundation that was formed by
Walter Hubert Annenberg (March 13, 1908 – October 1, 2002) was an American publisher, philanthropist, and diplomat most
of his wealth coming from TV Guide!
Think of it! You bought TV Guides. The evil profits paid Obama's salary. And forever the idiot Obama wants to do away with for profits!
And you again with your "evil for profit nightmare" are just as ignorant as Obama!

Actually if the wealthy were as taxed as they should be, we could better afford it. The wealthy could afford it too I promise. See the wealthy these days are investing less and less. Some investments that essentially becomes their personal wealth. They are keeping much of this money. 1% of the top earners own 40% of the nation's wealth.

God it gets so old when you brain dead right tards automatically jump to the conclusion that I am some unemployed deadbeat. I'm sure the accusation makes you think "boy I sure showed him!" but in reality it just makes you look like a moron for making such a baseless and laughable claim.
I work 40 hours a week. Don't believe me? I don't care.

How do you not understand the nature of a business? They want to maximize profit as much as they can. That means the poor would soon not be able to afford it.

Obama is worth 9 million. He obviously finds wealthy people important.

So why don't YOU become wealthy?
Did you know that in 1850, the US was home to 19 millionaires.
But the years following the Civil War had seen a considerable increase in membership of that exclusive club.
By the end of the 1890's the number of millionaires in the US had swelled to more than 4,000.
A quarterly report prepared by the Economist Intelligence Unit on behalf of Barclays Wealth in 2007 estimated that there were 16,600,000 millionaires in the USA
Millionaire - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
4,000 millionaires in 1890 40 times that ..16.6 million millionaires in 2007!
Population in 1890 there were 62,947,714 or a ratio of 1 million for every 15,736 people.
Population in 2014 317,297,938 number of millionaires: 4,000,000 or a ratio of 1 millionaire for every 793 people!
U.S. Population 2014 317 Million and 7.1 Billion in the World - US News
Now of course idiots will say a million dollars isn't the same in 1890 as it is in 2014.
So what? My point is there is a greater opportunity to be a millionaire today then anytime before and all idiots like you want to do
is steal from those that have it!
You rob the rich idiots are like a pack of wild dogs. You see someone who has more then you and you like a wild dog tear at it!
How gauche. How uncivilized.
People like me (and I'm no millionaire!!!) laugh though at people like you because instead of doing something you bitch and moan
about the WEALTHY! Geez work at something other then a 40 hour job for someone else. Build your own fortune and today there
is more opportunities for it then ever! In fact IF YOU BILLY want an idea and a domain name I've registered that will if you want to work at it make you and me a millionaire I'll be happy to share! I'm just getting too old and lack the energy... but if you are still putting in 40 hours I'd be happy to share with you how we both could become millionaires from this idea.

You want to partner and become a millionaire???
Become a creator not a destroyer. Grow the pie bigger don't be like a dog and simply try to take away from someone else.
That's what animals do!

You people automatically jump to this retarded conclusion that I hate the wealthy or I hate capitalism. Everything is so black and white with you people. I am against privatizing SS therefore I must be against the free market. It's such childlike thinking. In reality I am perfectly okay with the free market and CEO's being well paid. What I do have a problem with is the average CEO making 350x more than the average worker. I just want to close the gap. I want people to be paid a wage they can live off of and one that keeps up with inflation. The last time a person making $10 an hour and could easily live of of it was in the 60's. That is how behind wages are. Does that seem fair to you considering how wealthy these job creators are in this day and age?

Well what other conclusion when you want 'The wealthy could afford it too I promise. See the wealthy these days are investing less and less. Some investments that essentially becomes their personal wealth. They are keeping much of this money. 1% of the top earners own 40% of the nation's wealth." That's pure and simple communism. Share the wealth as the wealthy have too much!
My goodness why do YOU think it is right to take from someone and give it someone else? That's theft!

Tax the wealthy...
Do you know that MOST wealthy people that have stocks are double taxed? Is that a new concept to you??
Is that fair? They get taxed on the Ordinary dividends as ordinary income which means they are taxed twice BECAUSE
when the corporation pays out in dividends it is AFTER the corporation has paid taxes.
So any shareholder in a corporation gets less of a dividend BECAUSE of corporate taxes and then when they get the dividend
they have to pay taxes as ordinary income....
But this goes way over your head I'm sure.

YOU are so uninformed about Americans income.
The AVERAGE hourly wage American makes $24.06 per hour !
FACT:

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf

See the below to see fewer and fewer people working at or below minimum wage..
In 1979 6,912,000 or 13.4% of all hourly workers or total hourly workers of 51,582,090
In 1989 3,162,000 or 50% LESS working at minimum wage of the 62,000,000 people working at hourly wage
In 2009 there were 3,572,000 people working at minimum wage of 72,897,959 at hourly wage or 4.9%
Finally in 2013 there were 3,300,000 working at minimum or 4.3% of 76,744,186 that work at hourly or 4.3%

I know these FACTS really send your little brain in a tizzy but this crap about poor Americans!
GEEZ look around you at you and your neighbors!
You are living the life KINGS 100s of years ago could NEVER imagine... reading right now words generated by someone else instantly!

When will you people quit bitching about issues of CHOICE for example:
I would have loved at age 25 to have the choice of putting the nearly $300,000 I've paid in to SS/Medicare into the market when I was 25 up to age 45... moved it to more secure and then at 65 at retirement... ...
Here is what would have happened IF I HAD HAD the choices which YOU want to deny people the right to choose!
Obviously I can't do it now BUT why are people like you thwarting my granddaughter from have a choice?
From her accumulating by forced savings over her future career millions of dollars for HER to have... and not have it going
to the Federal government that spends it on
My point is people should have the CHOICE and forcing them to pump money back into the Federal government for some cubicle dweller amidst the Ebola crisis, the government’s premier health agencies are burning their taxpayer funded budgets on wasteful programs faster than drunken monkeys. Based on a recent $3.2 million NIH study focused exclusively on getting monkeys drunk, that’s an analogy researchers should readily understand. -

 

[Wry Catcher]

SS HAS worked for three generations. It is not socialism nor is it a Ponzi Scheme. Yes, some people are irresponsible and callous conservatives will be happy to step over their bodies - most of us will not.

Of course it's a ponzi scheme. You'd have to be a brainless idiotic leftard to not realize that.

You take money from X to pay for W, and the take money from Y to pay for X, and then take from Z to pay for Y.

That is EXACTLY how a ponzi scheme works. Bernie Madoff, got money from new investors to pay for old investors, then money from newer investors to pay for the new investors, than he ran out of investors to pay for the newer investors, and the system crashed.

That is EXACTLY what is happening in Social Security, and you are just too plain stupid to figure it out.

The 60s - 70s generation paid for the WW2 generation. Then the 80s - 90s Generation is paying the 60s - 70s generation. Now the Current generation is trying to be forced to pay for the 80s - 90s Generation, except we're starting to refuse to do it.

So instead they are cutting benefits. Raise the retirement age to 70 or higher.

Why? Can't find enough workers to pay for the takers. To many people drinking the water, and not enough carrying it. Just like Madoff, the system is running out of other people's money to take.

If you think it's a really not a Ponzi scheme, then you are just ignorant. Flat out, ignorant.

A PonzI Scheme is a fraudulent act ; the social security act is law. Are you really that dumb, or are you a liar?

If we made a law that you are an idiot, that would make it true huh? We can just legislate reality? If they passed a law that "Madoff investment was not a ponzi scheme", then it wouldn't be, not because it was any different than a ponzi scheme, because the law said it wasn't?

You realize that you are a perfect character in Ayn Rands Atlas Shrugged? The age of reason is dead, and because the law says SS is not a ponzi scheme, then it isn't... because we said so.... therefore it's not.... no matter how functionally it is.

Moron, there is no FRAUD, thus it is not a crime. No one is lead to believe that SS is all one needs in retirement. Some people choose to rely solely on SS, some need to do to circumstances.

I didn't say it was a crime stupid. You are the dumbest idiot I gave a chance to lately. You are proving yourself not worth reading.

Doesn't matter if it's a fraud or not.

Ponzi Schemes are Ponzi schemes, because of how they work. Take from Y to pay X, take from Z to pay Y. That's how it works.

And honestly.... IT IS FRAUDULENT. When you get your Social Security statement, which I happen to have, it says that I have an account with money in it.

Fact: I don't have an account with money in it. If I do, tell me the bank where the account is, where the money is located? Where are the investments? Where is my ROI statement? Doesn't exist.

With my Mutual fund, I can look up the stocks that are in my portfolio, and see I have stock in Walmart, Exxon, Ford, and a host of others. Actual assets, in an actual account, with *MY* name on it. ANd if I so choose, I can cash those assets out, and take my money back.... because it is *MY* money.

Social Security..... can't do any of that. It's a fraud. It's not real.

And also, much like a Ponzi Scheme, as the scheme runs out of money, people stop getting their dues. What do you think raising the retirement age to 70 is? It's exactly what I would expect from a ponzi scheme.

Your lack of equanimity is only superceded by your arrogance. SS has never gone insolvent, and unless government becomes much less democratic and more plutocratic it never will.