Zone1 There is a punishment (we hope not an eternal one) for not listening to Christ's Church

[kjw47]

And you have read every translation huh?

Or were you just told this by your JW people?

I have read other translations. They contradict Jesus teachings to the core. They contradict the facts of true God worship history as well.
Every translation on earth with Gods name removed where he willed it, because he wants it there, is an altered version, altered by satans will to mislead. All using them are being mislead to support satans will over Gods will on that matter. Only false religions that claim to be christian use them.

 

[Blues Man]

I have read other translations. They contradict Jesus teachings to the core. They contradict the facts of true God worship history as well.
Every translation on earth with Gods name removed where he willed it, because he wants it there, is an altered version, altered by satans will to mislead. All using them are being mislead to support satans will over Gods will on that matter. Only false religions that claim to be christian use them.

Like I said you can't even conceive that you may be wrong.

Maybe the Jews or Muslims are actually right.

 

[kjw47]

Like I said you can't even conceive that you may be wrong.

Maybe the Jews or Muslims are actually right.

They arent.

 

[Blues Man]

They arent.

Like I said arrogant

Maybe all 3 desert religions are wrong.

 

[nomadic5]

The reason I say the NT is not the definitive book is that Jesus never said that a belief in a book or a collection of letters was needed for salvation or be considered a disciple/Christian. Modern Christians absolutely oppose that thought. However, you ask the first century Christians what they used as a basis for their belief, it was in "Hearing" the word or "The Gospel" as most couldn't read nor had access to all the letters floating around. If first Century Christians didn't need a "Bible", why would anyone else need it?

I'm speaking from a purely "Christian" perspective.
I don't think the NT is an authoritative "Word of God" as many Catholics or Protestants believe today.
If the Bible was supposed to be as claimed, Jesus would have specifically and clearly spoken of such a Book. He did not. The first century Christians had no such book. Most, couldn't read. Those that could read, only had access to a few letters at one time. Today, many Christians make the belief in the bible another tenant to be considered "Christian", almost as important or equally important as the Trinity or the creeds. But, if I'm a "Christian", specifically a Gentile with no Jewish background, the OT is meaningless to me, and I believe Paul understood this.

I have a hard time putting faith in the RCC to have been truly "Inspired" to put together the "Word of God".

As for the OT, I've mentioned before, Israel IMO, painted a war mongering god, and incorrectly so and illustrated by Jesus. Muslims and Jews are an offshoot of each other, no different than "Denominations" of today with less murdering (thank god we don't have the Baptists murdering Methodists over a birthright claim).

.

Well, at least you are onto the truth that the written Word of God was not around until centuries after Christ ascended, 1440 to be exact, when the printing press was invented and Bibles began to be mass produced.

So when you ask some Protestants: Were there Christians before 1440? They act like that is a dumb question. They don't bother to answer it, which means maybe it wasn't so dumb? LOL

Anyhow, that does not mean that the Bible is not the Word of God, but before Bibles were mass produced, there were... Whoda thunk it?! Preachers of the Word, those who had access to the Bible -- Catholic priests and bishops and popes -- who could preach it to the people.

But I won't go on... since most people despise Catholicism... before knowing what it is... I can't do anything about that kind of closed mind...

 

[LibertyKid]

Well, at least you are onto the truth that the written Word of God was not around until centuries after Christ ascended, 1440 to be exact, when the printing press was invented and Bibles began to be mass produced.

There were various attempts to produce a "cannon" long before the printing press by the RCC and non RCC Christians. If the "Word of God" was so important to the early church, why didn't Jesus just hand over a completed book?

So when you ask some Protestants: Were there Christians before 1440? They act like that is a dumb question. They don't bother to answer it, which means maybe it wasn't so dumb? LOL

You can ask that regarding many aspects of Christianity. Look at theology. Reformed theology, for some I think Calvin > Jesus. For some, there is no other way to interpret the Bible other than dispensationalism, so for them, their belief started in 1850s with Darby. But no one asks.... why so long. Why did it take 1500 years for Reformed theology? Why did it take 1800 years for dispensationalism? Yet, the message of Christ was so simple. Look at how we have mucked it up.

Anyhow, that does not mean that the Bible is not the Word of God, but before Bibles were mass produced, there were... Whoda thunk it?! Preachers of the Word, those who had access to the Bible -- Catholic priests and bishops and popes -- who could preach it to the people.

And that's where the RCC went wrong and manipulated people with "Religion", indulgences, and other non-Gospel beliefs. The RCC knew they had power over the people through their very own monopolized interpretation.

But I won't go on... since most people despise Catholicism... before knowing what it is... I can't do anything about that kind of closed mind...

Pity party much. Who cares what other people think. Believe what thou wilt.

 

[ninja007]

I'm speaking from a purely "Christian" perspective.
I don't think the NT is an authoritative "Word of God" as many Catholics or Protestants believe today.
If the Bible was supposed to be as claimed, Jesus would have specifically and clearly spoken of such a Book. He did not. The first century Christians had no such book. Most, couldn't read. Those that could read, only had access to a few letters at one time. Today, many Christians make the belief in the bible another tenant to be considered "Christian", almost as important or equally important as the Trinity or the creeds. But, if I'm a "Christian", specifically a Gentile with no Jewish background, the OT is meaningless to me, and I believe Paul understood this.

I have a hard time putting faith in the RCC to have been truly "Inspired" to put together the "Word of God".

As for the OT, I've mentioned before, Israel IMO, painted a war mongering god, and incorrectly so and illustrated by Jesus. Muslims and Jews are an offshoot of each other, no different than "Denominations" of today with less murdering (thank god we don't have the Baptists murdering Methodists over a birthright claim).

King James Bible
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Tim 3:16.

 

[ninja007]

The most crucial problem with the Roman Catholic Church is its belief that faith alone in Christ is not sufficient for salvation. The Bible clearly and consistently states that receiving Jesus Christ as Savior, by grace through faith, grants salvation (John 1:12; 3:16,18,36; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9-10,13; Ephesians 2:8-9). The Roman Catholic Church rejects this. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized AND receive the Eucharist along with the other sacraments AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church AND perform meritorious works AND not die with any mortal sins AND etc., etc., etc. Catholic divergence from the Bible on this most crucial of issues, salvation, means that yes, Catholicism is a false religion. If a person believes what the Catholic Church officially teaches, he/she will not be saved. Any claim that works or rituals must be added to faith in order for salvation to be achieved is a claim that Jesus’ death was not sufficient to fully purchase our salvation.

While salvation by faith is the most crucial issue, in comparing Roman Catholicism with the Word of God, there are many other differences and contradictions as well. The Roman Catholic Church teaches many doctrines that are in disagreement with what the Bible declares. These include apostolic succession, worship of saints or Mary, prayer to saints or Mary, the pope / papacy, infant baptism, transubstantiation, plenary indulgences, the sacramental system, and purgatory. While Catholics claim Scriptural support for these concepts, none of these teachings have any solid foundation in the clear teaching of Scripture. These concepts are based on Catholic tradition, not the Word of God. In fact, they all clearly contradict Biblical principles.

In regards to the question “Are Catholics saved?”, this is a more difficult question to answer. It is impossible to give a universal statement on the salvation of all members of any denomination of Christianity. Not ALL Baptists are saved. Not ALL Presbyterians are saved. Not ALL Lutherans are saved. Salvation is determined by personal faith in Jesus alone for salvation, not by titles or denominational identification. Despite the unbiblical beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church, there are genuine believers who attend Roman Catholic churches. There are many Roman Catholics who have genuinely placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. However, these Catholic Christians are believers despite what the Catholic Church teaches, not because of what it teaches. To varying degrees, the Catholic Church teaches from the Bible and points people to Jesus Christ as the Savior. As a result, people are sometimes saved in Catholic churches. The Bible has an impact whenever it is proclaimed (Isaiah 55:11). Catholic Christians remain in the Catholic Church out of ignorance of what the Catholic Church truly stands for, out of family tradition and peer pressure, or out of a desire to reach other Catholics for Christ.

At the same time, the Catholic Church also leads many people away from a genuine faith relationship with Christ. The unbiblical beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church have often given the enemies of Christ opportunity to blaspheme. The Roman Catholic Church is not the church that Jesus Christ established. It is not a church that is based on the teachings of the Apostles (as described in the Book of Acts and the New Testament epistles). While Jesus’ words in Mark 7:9 were directed towards the Pharisees, they accurately describe the Roman Catholic Church, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!”

 

[Meriweather]

The most crucial problem with the Roman Catholic Church is its belief that faith alone in Christ is not sufficient for salvation.

Catholics believe by his life, death, and resurrection Christ redeemed the world. This means Christ opened the Way of Salvation meaning all could now enter the kingdom of God. Immediately. No need to wait until one dies.

Salvation is now a way of life. Catholics follow the Way of Christ who was baptized, who forgave sins, who set in motion our celebration of the Eucharist (Last Supper). Another part of Kingdom living is incorporating the Beatitudes, Parables, Commandments and all Jesus taught into our lives. Perhaps the primary goal of Kingdom living is discerning the will of God and following it so that God's will is done here on earth as it is in heaven.

Belief and faith has us living our salvation right now--no waiting around for death and the afterlife. It is ours today and always.

 

[theHawk]

There's a Scripture psg about how if you have a problem with a brother, take it to the Church and if the person will not even hear the Church, he is to be treated like an infidel (unbeliever)

But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

Matthew 18:15

Me

So this is the reason Catholics do not.. wait, it is at least one reason anyhow.. Catholics say that no one can be saved outside the Church.

Jesus did not establish a Church and then say or imply that there was no need to enter or remain in it... THAT makes ZERO sense

Depends on what you mean by outside “the Church”. We do not know if those outside, like Protestants will be saved or not. It’s just “safer” to stay within the Catholic church.

It’s those that deny Christ that are in real trouble. If you deny him, then he will deny you. It is the one thing that will not be forgiven upon death.

 

[theHawk]

Like I said arrogant

Maybe all 3 desert religions are wrong.

There is only one correct religion, that of the messianic Jews, aka Christianity.
Talmud Judaism isn’t rooted in biblical Judaism, and Islam was founded by a pedophile false prophet.

 

[Mr Natural]

There is only one correct religion, that of the messianic Jews, aka Christianity.
Talmud Judaism isn’t rooted in biblical Judaism, and Islam was founded by a pedophile false prophet.

They’re all nonsense.

 

[ding]

There's a Scripture psg about how if you have a problem with a brother, take it to the Church and if the person will not even hear the Church, he is to be treated like an infidel (unbeliever)

But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

Matthew 18:15

Me

So this is the reason Catholics do not.. wait, it is at least one reason anyhow.. Catholics say that no one can be saved outside the Church.

Jesus did not establish a Church and then say or imply that there was no need to enter or remain in it... THAT makes ZERO sense

You aren't a Catholic. You're an evangelical; a fundamentalist; a nut job.

 

[Batcat]

There's a Scripture psg about how if you have a problem with a brother, take it to the Church and if the person will not even hear the Church, he is to be treated like an infidel (unbeliever)

But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

Matthew 18:15

Me

So this is the reason Catholics do not.. wait, it is at least one reason anyhow.. Catholics say that no one can be saved outside the Church.

Jesus did not establish a Church and then say or imply that there was no need to enter or remain in it... THAT makes ZERO sense

A large percentage of the New Testament is devoted to Paul, his travels and letters. Did Paul start the Catholic Church? If Peter started the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church is the only true Christian church than why is there not more about Peter in the New Testament?

 

[Blues Man]

There is only one correct religion, that of the messianic Jews, aka Christianity.
Talmud Judaism isn’t rooted in biblical Judaism, and Islam was founded by a pedophile false prophet.

That's your opinion.

 

[surada]

Well, at least you are onto the truth that the written Word of God was not around until centuries after Christ ascended, 1440 to be exact, when the printing press was invented and Bibles began to be mass produced.

So when you ask some Protestants: Were there Christians before 1440? They act like that is a dumb question. They don't bother to answer it, which means maybe it wasn't so dumb? LOL

Anyhow, that does not mean that the Bible is not the Word of God, but before Bibles were mass produced, there were... Whoda thunk it?! Preachers of the Word, those who had access to the Bible -- Catholic priests and bishops and popes -- who could preach it to the people.

But I won't go on... since most people despise Catholicism... before knowing what it is... I can't do anything about that kind of closed mind...

Bullshit. You're playing the victim. Most people don't despise the Catholic church.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Like I said arrogant

Maybe all 3 desert religions are wrong.

It's up to you to find out. There is NOTHING more important for you to know in this life. And it ain't that hard

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

That's your opinion.

It's historical fact

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Depends on what you mean by outside “the Church”. We do not know if those outside, like Protestants will be saved or not. It’s just “safer” to stay within the Catholic church

An evil tree cannot bear good fruit

 

[surada]

An evil tree cannot bear good fruit

Are you claiming to be God?