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I think in terms of our souls/spirits are eternal.Heaven is supposed to be an eternal place right? So if at any point there were rebels or “individuals” angels, souls whatever… being cast out to hell then how can they really be eternal? Doesn’t make sense.
If free will exists and if free will is what gets people to heaven or hell then spending an eternity in either place wouldn’t make sense, right? There would have to be a constant back and forth in the afterlifeI think in terms of our souls/spirits are eternal.
Heaven is eternal.
Hell is eternal.
Angels being eternal and heaven being eternal doesn't mean that one is forced to spend their eternity in heaven. Who know, perhaps not in hell, either. I have read somewhere that a change in attitude and reconciliation might result in Satan's return to heaven as a prodigal son.
Heaven and hell don’t interest me. They have nothing to do with the journey. The most I will say about them is hell is being eternally separated from God and heaven is being eternally united with God. I don’t see either as a place.Heaven is supposed to be an eternal place right? So if at any point there were rebels or “individuals” angels, souls whatever… being cast out to hell then how can they really be eternal? Doesn’t make sense.
Right but my point is that free will makes any “eternal” situation not possibleHeaven and hell don’t interest me. They have nothing to do with the journey. The most I will say about them is hell is being eternally separated from God and heaven is being eternally united with God. I don’t see either as a place
How so?Right but my point is that free will makes any “eternal” situation not possible
I didn’t see anybody calling the war eternal… I’m saying the existence of the war and free will makes the concept of spending an eternity in heaven or hell following this life not possible.How so?
And who said the so called war in heaven is eternal. Eternal means no beginning and no end. If the war had a beginning it’s not eternal.
How does the existence of free will and the existence of war make the concept of spending eternity in heaven or hell impossible?I didn’t see anybody calling the war eternal… I’m saying the existence of the war and free will makes the concept of spending an eternity in heaven or hell following this life not possible.
Ever try to change someone's mind?If free will exists and if free will is what gets people to heaven or hell then spending an eternity in either place wouldn’t make sense, right? There would have to be a constant back and forth in the afterlife
If heaven is to be with God and hell to not be with God, and you have the freewill to not want to be with god then you could theoretically go from heaven to hell. Right? This is what happened to Lucifer during the war mentioned in the OP, right?How does the existence of free will and the existence of war make the concept of spending eternity in heaven or hell impossible?
Walk me through an example of each; heaven and hell.
I don’t believe God destroys what he creates because everything he creates is good. I don’t believe people can truly imagine what it would be like to be truly absent of good. That’s what I imagine he’ll would be like. To be absent of good for eternity. We take so much for granted while we are alive. We only appreciate what we have after it is gone.Ever try to change someone's mind?
People see the afterlife in different ways. What did this life prepare us for? Is it a kind of aptitude test to determine our next best fit? Is our best fit being a servant of God? Or is our best fit being left to oneself? The determining question might be something close to, Do I wish to serve, or Do I wish to put myself first and foremost, working with others who have the same "Me first" mindset?
My mind bounces all over the place of What ifs. What if this was not my first physical existence? What if, being fiercely independent, I chose to go it alone, choosing the Me First existence because that fit me best. But what if I grew tired of that existence and thought that serving others might be preferable? But what if, one can't simply open a door to heaven? What if one has to have another physical existence to be certain and clear that one does want to serve and won't be miserable in heaven?
We don't know. And thinking about getting out of heaven (or hell) is too far ahead. One step at a time. I have never really been troubled by Satan or hell, because I have a feeling Satan tested me a long time ago and readily cast me aside. That does not mean that God accepts me for eternity, merely that I have a feeling that Satan passed on making a bid for me. And God has this habit of gathering up the lost and the rejected.
Mostly correct. I believe Heaven is being eternally united with God and sharing in his existence - which is eternal - at a level commensurate to the level of virtue I have progressed. In other words, my ability to experience God will be limited by my capacity for goodness.If heaven is to be with God and hell to not be with God, and you have the freewill to not want to be with god then you could theoretically go from heaven to hell. Right?
Supposedly, yes. I suspect though once we reject God’s spirit there isn’t a do over when we realize we made a mistake because we couldn’t recognize what existence would be like being devoid of good.This is what happened to Lucifer during the war mentioned in the OP, right?
Heaven is supposed to be an eternal place right? So if at any point there were rebels or “individuals” angels, souls whatever… being cast out to hell then how can they really be eternal? Doesn’t make sense.
If heaven is to be with God and hell to not be with God, and you have the freewill to not want to be with god then you could theoretically go from heaven to hell. Right? This is what happened to Lucifer during the war mentioned in the OP, right?
Angels are spirit beings. All dwelling in heaven( Gods dwelling place) are spirit beings.First off let me dispel the myth that many have that angels are a separate species than mankind. Angels are messengers. All angels are mankind. True Satan was an angel but he was also a man. An angel is merely a title for a messenger.
Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Also consider Genesis chapter 19
Genesis 19:1,5,8,10
1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
Where do you come up with the notion that God after casting Satan out of heaven that he appointed him to be over the Garden of Eden? I see no evidence of this and it sounds preposterous. Adam was appointed to take care of the Garden of Eden.
Genesis 2:15
15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Is it your opinion that Adam and Satan are the same being? If so, that too is absurd. It is clear that Satan's rebellion was in heaven and that was the reason he was cast out into the earth.
Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Isaiah 14:12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Verse 9 of Revelation 12 tells us that Satan was cast out into the earth. It was in the earth that the Garden of Eden was. This was after Satan's rebellion in heaven and after he was cast out. Satan did not become a messenger of God after being cast out of heaven and was not appointed over the Garden of Eden.
To the Prophet Joseph Smith, it was revealed to him by Jesus Christ himself that Adam is Michael and also the Ancient of Days (see Doctrine and Covenants 27). Not sure how you come to the conclusion that Michael is Jesus and the Ancient of Days is our Father in Heaven. What is your evidence? Adam first returns to the earth and is crowned and then one like the Son of Man, who is Jesus comes and receives his throne over the house of Israel. Daniel 7 is a prophesy of things that will occur on the earth. When Zion is again established the Ancient of Days (Adam) will come and sit upon his throne and then he will receive Christ when he comes and Christ will be crowned to be King over the house of David, and over all Israel, and the whole world.
Angels are spirit beings. All dwelling in heaven( Gods dwelling place) are spirit beings.
Adam was perfect and sinned, he doesnt have a chance at redemption with God.
So let’s say I die and go to heaven. Am I there forever or is there still a chance for me to get sent to hell?the everlasting, heaven is eternal the inhabitants last as long as made possible by their own initiative, as speculative ...
- new arrivals obviously are not eternal having a beginning on planet earth after first gaining admission as free spirits, becoming simply not physiologically mortal.
So let’s say I die and go to heaven. Am I there forever or is there still a chance for me to get sent to hell?
