Mind----he knows that Israel would not turn his machines off-----
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The "Virtuous" New Nazis.
- Thread starter Mindful
- Start date
Mind----he knows that Israel would not turn his machines off-----
- Moderator
- #122
In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
Exactly. And Coyote knows that the hard working, Christian people who pay for her entitlements wouldn't deny her, either.Nobody said it went away. But it is definitely mainstream now. Look to Coyote. She's the biggest sheep you'll find on this site, and look at the garbage she spouts. She wouldn't do it if it wasn't common. She's never had an original thought in her life.Might I remind you, gentle people, that this OP was not set up to discuss Muslims. But Jew hatred in Europe.
And why do you think it's enjoying such popularity these days?
"
Some politicians around the world deny that what is happening in Europe is anti-Semitism. It is, they say, merely a reaction to the actions of the state of Israel, to the continuing conflict with the Palestinians. But the policies of the state of Israel are not made in kosher supermarkets in Paris or in Jewish cultural institutions in Brussels and Mumbai. The targets in these cities were not Israeli. They were Jewish.
According to the Middle East Media Research Institute, an Egyptian cleric, Muhammad Hussein Yaqub, speaking in January 2009 on Al Rahma, a popular religious TV station in Egypt, made the contours of the new hate impeccably clear: “If the Jews left Palestine to us, would we start loving them? Of course not. We will never love them…They are enemies not because they occupied Palestine. They would have been enemies even if they did not occupy a thing…You must believe that we will fight, defeat and annihilate them until not a single Jew remains on the face of the Earth…You will not survive as long as a single one of us remains.”
The Return of Anti-Semitism
It never really went away.
Cloaked in present day idealistic eloquence, and outrageous justifications, one could almost believe it oneself.
These calls for boycotting Israeli products. Some fool likened them to successful sanctions on South Africa.
Steven Hawking adding his voice to the cause. Does he not realise that he is calling for his own death? As Israeli technology is keeping him alive.
Mind----he knows that Israel would not turn his machines off-----
So THAT'S why you support those who have actually indulged in ethnic cleansing -- it's because you are actually against it.
There were once a million Jews living in Arab lands. Today, there are just a few thousand. Meanwhile, the Arab population in Israel continues to grow faster than that of the Jewish.
When the original Mandate of Palestine was divided, Arabs were given over 78%. Not content with that, you antisemites want Arabs to have even more.
And what do they have now? Oh and what use to be 80% arabs is now 20% from the slow genocide.
There's no genocide going on.
Well I believe there, is slowly and daily, a few killed here and there. Land stole and more illegal settlements.
Not all genocides happen at one, its the daily killing of several which is a daily occurrence.
Genocide is a very specific and powerful term that is overused. Would you then call the Palestinian attacks on Israeli Jewish civilians "genocide"?
I call it protecting their people and land.
Do only jews have a right to protect their people and land, sure sounds like it. Not Lebanon, Syria, or Iran.
So that is what Israel is doing protecting its people and land, now when will they go all out and evict the terrorist scum from the land granted to them under International law. It seems that you are another plastic nazi that denies the Jews their legal, human, religious and customary rights while also denying them the right to have international law support them.
- Moderator
- #125
That would require starting a new topic.Been reading a very interesting article that's almost a short book, on the origins of the conflicts in the modern middle east. Maybe you should read a bit before you spew your crap.
coyote---please try to make a point------"i have read" does not
work on a messageboard.
wtf? No, you already referenced it. It would require you supporting the hateful crap you spew, and you won't do that. I don't know if you're too stupid, or too evil. Maybe both.
I referenced it in response to another person's quote and don't want to derail this topic further. If you want to discuss the origins of the conflicts in the ME today - start a topic and I'll join in. Much of it started with WW1 and the carving up of the Ottoman Empire into states that would not have naturally existed forcing different people's together who historically did not get along, and creating a situation where only strongman dictators could hold those states together. Following the European system of "divide and conquor" they invested minorities with power because they knew the minorities would have to remain loyal to them or their existence would be threatened. Why are the Christians in Syria in so much trouble? They were closely linked to the ruling Syrian group, also a minority, and now the civil war has given power, and vengeance, to the oppressed majorities. That's NOT a defense of anything - just a very simplistic explanation of the history behind it. It's fascinating and dreadful, and similar played out in Africa.
I DO NOT AGREE-----the OTTOMAN EMPIRE itself created
more than enough strife that would have BY NOW----become
just as virulent as anything now going on in the Middle east
So Coyote is trying to prevent any discussion of historical events as they pertain to the situation today.
Of course she is. And we all know why. Nazis and Muslims BOTH deny the holocaust, and ban the teaching of history that doesn't promote their cause.
I'm trying to be mindful of Mindful's request to stay on the topic of antisemitism in Europe. This digression is really more about the conflict in the wider ME then it is about the topic. Capiche?
In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
It's Jews and Christians being scapegoated, you moron. Not Nazis and muslims. If Nazis and Muslims were being scapegoated, we'd be hearing of them being hacked up on subways and blown up in cafes. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. Your heroes are the only ones who are doing that.
In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
wrong again-------there was NO time in the course of history
when jews and muslims "got along" in anything close to a
manner that YOU would consider GOOD AND JUST----absolutely no time. The change that 1948 brought was that it created a place TO WHERE jews could more easily than before ESCAPE. In the course of history---jews did not need "equality" in order to FLOURISH------in fact the stress of persecution kinda galvanized FLOURISH skills
In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
It's Jews and Christians being scapegoated, you moron. Not Nazis and muslims. If Nazis and Muslims were being scapegoated, we'd be hearing of them being hacked up on subways and blown up in cafes. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. Your heroes are the only ones who are doing that.
in the world today-------Nazism has been relatively sidelined
That would require starting a new topic.coyote---please try to make a point------"i have read" does not
work on a messageboard.
wtf? No, you already referenced it. It would require you supporting the hateful crap you spew, and you won't do that. I don't know if you're too stupid, or too evil. Maybe both.
I referenced it in response to another person's quote and don't want to derail this topic further. If you want to discuss the origins of the conflicts in the ME today - start a topic and I'll join in. Much of it started with WW1 and the carving up of the Ottoman Empire into states that would not have naturally existed forcing different people's together who historically did not get along, and creating a situation where only strongman dictators could hold those states together. Following the European system of "divide and conquor" they invested minorities with power because they knew the minorities would have to remain loyal to them or their existence would be threatened. Why are the Christians in Syria in so much trouble? They were closely linked to the ruling Syrian group, also a minority, and now the civil war has given power, and vengeance, to the oppressed majorities. That's NOT a defense of anything - just a very simplistic explanation of the history behind it. It's fascinating and dreadful, and similar played out in Africa.
I DO NOT AGREE-----the OTTOMAN EMPIRE itself created
more than enough strife that would have BY NOW----become
just as virulent as anything now going on in the Middle eastSo Coyote is trying to prevent any discussion of historical events as they pertain to the situation today.
Of course she is. And we all know why. Nazis and Muslims BOTH deny the holocaust, and ban the teaching of history that doesn't promote their cause.
I'm trying to be mindful of Mindful's request to stay on the topic of antisemitism in Europe. This digression is really more about the conflict in the wider ME then it is about the topic. Capiche?
Nonsense. You're trying to prevent a real discussion by limiting the scope. That's what people who know that what they're saying is garbage do. Prevent any evidence from being brought in by claiming it's irrelevant.
It's like saying that talking about WWI is irrelevant to the topic of WWII. Obviously, the Middle East is going to be a part of this conversation because the one thing we know is that immigration from the ME to Europe increased exponentially at the exact same time that anti-Semitism in Europe increased exponentially.
- Moderator
- #130
Nobody said it went away. But it is definitely mainstream now. Look to Coyote. She's the biggest sheep you'll find on this site, and look at the garbage she spouts. She wouldn't do it if it wasn't common. She's never had an original thought in her life.Might I remind you, gentle people, that this OP was not set up to discuss Muslims. But Jew hatred in Europe.
And why do you think it's enjoying such popularity these days?
"
Some politicians around the world deny that what is happening in Europe is anti-Semitism. It is, they say, merely a reaction to the actions of the state of Israel, to the continuing conflict with the Palestinians. But the policies of the state of Israel are not made in kosher supermarkets in Paris or in Jewish cultural institutions in Brussels and Mumbai. The targets in these cities were not Israeli. They were Jewish.
According to the Middle East Media Research Institute, an Egyptian cleric, Muhammad Hussein Yaqub, speaking in January 2009 on Al Rahma, a popular religious TV station in Egypt, made the contours of the new hate impeccably clear: “If the Jews left Palestine to us, would we start loving them? Of course not. We will never love them…They are enemies not because they occupied Palestine. They would have been enemies even if they did not occupy a thing…You must believe that we will fight, defeat and annihilate them until not a single Jew remains on the face of the Earth…You will not survive as long as a single one of us remains.”
The Return of Anti-Semitism
It never really went away.
Cloaked in present day idealistic eloquence, and outrageous justifications, one could almost believe it oneself.
These calls for boycotting Israeli products. Some fool likened them to successful sanctions on South Africa.
Steven Hawking adding his voice to the cause. Does he not realise that he is calling for his own death? As Israeli technology is keeping him alive.
How is it different? Boycotting has often been a legitimate means to attempting to force social change. Where do you draw lines?
In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
It's Jews and Christians being scapegoated, you moron. Not Nazis and muslims. If Nazis and Muslims were being scapegoated, we'd be hearing of them being hacked up on subways and blown up in cafes. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. Your heroes are the only ones who are doing that.
People being scapegoated vary according to where they are. In many places it is also muslims. The thing is - it's a dangerous thing to start advocating when most of the members of that group do not engage in those actions and are simply being used as a focus for other societal problems.
- Moderator
- #131
That would require starting a new topic.
wtf? No, you already referenced it. It would require you supporting the hateful crap you spew, and you won't do that. I don't know if you're too stupid, or too evil. Maybe both.
I referenced it in response to another person's quote and don't want to derail this topic further. If you want to discuss the origins of the conflicts in the ME today - start a topic and I'll join in. Much of it started with WW1 and the carving up of the Ottoman Empire into states that would not have naturally existed forcing different people's together who historically did not get along, and creating a situation where only strongman dictators could hold those states together. Following the European system of "divide and conquor" they invested minorities with power because they knew the minorities would have to remain loyal to them or their existence would be threatened. Why are the Christians in Syria in so much trouble? They were closely linked to the ruling Syrian group, also a minority, and now the civil war has given power, and vengeance, to the oppressed majorities. That's NOT a defense of anything - just a very simplistic explanation of the history behind it. It's fascinating and dreadful, and similar played out in Africa.
I DO NOT AGREE-----the OTTOMAN EMPIRE itself created
more than enough strife that would have BY NOW----become
just as virulent as anything now going on in the Middle eastSo Coyote is trying to prevent any discussion of historical events as they pertain to the situation today.
Of course she is. And we all know why. Nazis and Muslims BOTH deny the holocaust, and ban the teaching of history that doesn't promote their cause.
I'm trying to be mindful of Mindful's request to stay on the topic of antisemitism in Europe. This digression is really more about the conflict in the wider ME then it is about the topic. Capiche?
Nonsense. You're trying to prevent a real discussion by limiting the scope. That's what people who know that what they're saying is garbage do. Prevent any evidence from being brought in by claiming it's irrelevant.
It's like saying that talking about WWI is irrelevant to the topic of WWII. Obviously, the Middle East is going to be a part of this conversation because the one thing we know is that immigration from the ME to Europe increased exponentially at the exact same time that anti-Semitism in Europe increased exponentially.
Take it up with Mindful then - it's her topic. I don't see how a discussion of the history of the Ottoman Empire, and the dissolution of the Middle East really helps the topic.
Might I remind you, gentle people, that this OP was not set up to discuss Muslims. But Jew hatred in Europe.
Eloy
Gold Member
The theme of the thread.Is this what Jews call "The New Antisemitism"?
Anti-Zionism is the new anti-Semitism, says Britain's former chief rabbi
what is "this" in your question? Programs aimed at destroying Israel?
Nobody said it went away. But it is definitely mainstream now. Look to Coyote. She's the biggest sheep you'll find on this site, and look at the garbage she spouts. She wouldn't do it if it wasn't common. She's never had an original thought in her life.Might I remind you, gentle people, that this OP was not set up to discuss Muslims. But Jew hatred in Europe.
And why do you think it's enjoying such popularity these days?
"
Some politicians around the world deny that what is happening in Europe is anti-Semitism. It is, they say, merely a reaction to the actions of the state of Israel, to the continuing conflict with the Palestinians. But the policies of the state of Israel are not made in kosher supermarkets in Paris or in Jewish cultural institutions in Brussels and Mumbai. The targets in these cities were not Israeli. They were Jewish.
According to the Middle East Media Research Institute, an Egyptian cleric, Muhammad Hussein Yaqub, speaking in January 2009 on Al Rahma, a popular religious TV station in Egypt, made the contours of the new hate impeccably clear: “If the Jews left Palestine to us, would we start loving them? Of course not. We will never love them…They are enemies not because they occupied Palestine. They would have been enemies even if they did not occupy a thing…You must believe that we will fight, defeat and annihilate them until not a single Jew remains on the face of the Earth…You will not survive as long as a single one of us remains.”
The Return of Anti-Semitism
It never really went away.
Cloaked in present day idealistic eloquence, and outrageous justifications, one could almost believe it oneself.
These calls for boycotting Israeli products. Some fool likened them to successful sanctions on South Africa.
Steven Hawking adding his voice to the cause. Does he not realise that he is calling for his own death? As Israeli technology is keeping him alive.
How is it different? Boycotting has often been a legitimate means to attempting to force social change. Where do you draw lines?
In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
It's Jews and Christians being scapegoated, you moron. Not Nazis and muslims. If Nazis and Muslims were being scapegoated, we'd be hearing of them being hacked up on subways and blown up in cafes. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. Your heroes are the only ones who are doing that.
People being scapegoated vary according to where they are. In many places it is also muslims. The thing is - it's a dangerous thing to start advocating when most of the members of that group do not engage in those actions and are simply being used as a focus for other societal problems.
Tell me..list those "many places" where muslims are being scapegoated by anybody other than other muslims.
MANY PLACES. I expect ten at least. Current.
In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
So you havent yet read the koran and hadiths that spell it out "KILL THE JEWS" Why do you think that the Jews were kept in such low numbers in the M.E., it was the muslims following their religion and having periodic murderfests of the Jews. Just look at Hebron that was attacked and the Jewish residents wiped out 3 times.
Your favourite source tells the whole story
Persecution of Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Traditionally Jews living in Muslim lands, known as dhimmis, were allowed to practice their religion and to administer their internal affairs but were subject to certain conditions.[8] They had to pay the jizya (a per capita tax imposed on free adult non-Muslim males) to Muslims.[9] Dhimmis had an inferior status under Islamic rule. They had several social and legal disabilities such as prohibitions against bearing arms or giving testimony in courts in cases involving Muslims.[10] Contrary to popular belief, the Qur'an did not allow Muslims to force Jews to wear distinctive clothing. Obadiah the Proselyte reported in 1100 AD, that the Caliph had created this rule himself
This was also the chief motivation behind the 1066 Granada massacre, when "[m]ore than 1,500 Jewish families, numbering 4,000 persons, fell in one day",[12] and in Fez in 1033, when 6,000 Jews were killed.[13] There were further massacres in Fez in 1276 and 1465.[14]
The [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_affair']Damascus affair occurred in 1840, when a French monk and his servant disappeared in Damascus. Immediately following, a charge of ritual murder was brought against a large number of Jews in the city including children who were tortured.[/URL]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews#cite_note-14
Pogroms occurred in: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jerusalem (1847), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891), Istanbul (1870, 1874), Buyukdere (1864), Kuzguncuk (1866), Eyub (1868), Edirne (1872), Izmir (1872, 1874).[17] There was a massacre of Jews in Baghdad in 1828.[13] There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867.[13]
In 1839, in the eastern [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persia']Persian city of Meshed, a mob burst into the Jewish Quarter, burned the synagogue, and destroyed the Torah scrolls. This is known as the Allahdad incident. It was only by forcible conversion that a massacre was averted.[/URL]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews#cite_note-Morris10-13
How do you justify killing children? Do you realize Jews have also been there from the beginning?And what do they have now? Oh and what use to be 80% arabs is now 20% from the slow genocide.
There's no genocide going on.
Well I believe there, is slowly and daily, a few killed here and there. Land stole and more illegal settlements.
Not all genocides happen at one, its the daily killing of several which is a daily occurrence.
Genocide is a very specific and powerful term that is overused. Would you then call the Palestinian attacks on Israeli Jewish civilians "genocide"?
I call it protecting their people and land.
Do only jews have a right to protect their people and land, sure sounds like it. Not Lebanon, Syria, or Iran.
How do you justify blaming the Jews for the killings when it was hamas that forced the children to be human shields. This is just another example of islamonazi propaganda that is spread like wildfire.
Jews were there 2,500 years before the muslims were invented, and then where given the land under the same international law as the arab muslims received trans Jordan, Iraq, Iran and Syria. Are you going to deny this law exists, or just the part that supports the Jews rights ?
- Moderator
- #136
It has just changed iInteresting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
It's Jews and Christians being scapegoated, you moron. Not Nazis and muslims. If Nazis and Muslims were being scapegoated, we'd be hearing of them being hacked up on subways and blown up in cafes. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. Your heroes are the only ones who are doing that.
in the world today-------Nazism has been relatively sidelined
Nobody said it went away. But it is definitely mainstream now. Look to Coyote. She's the biggest sheep you'll find on this site, and look at the garbage she spouts. She wouldn't do it if it wasn't common. She's never had an original thought in her life.And why do you think it's enjoying such popularity these days?
"
Some politicians around the world deny that what is happening in Europe is anti-Semitism. It is, they say, merely a reaction to the actions of the state of Israel, to the continuing conflict with the Palestinians. But the policies of the state of Israel are not made in kosher supermarkets in Paris or in Jewish cultural institutions in Brussels and Mumbai. The targets in these cities were not Israeli. They were Jewish.
According to the Middle East Media Research Institute, an Egyptian cleric, Muhammad Hussein Yaqub, speaking in January 2009 on Al Rahma, a popular religious TV station in Egypt, made the contours of the new hate impeccably clear: “If the Jews left Palestine to us, would we start loving them? Of course not. We will never love them…They are enemies not because they occupied Palestine. They would have been enemies even if they did not occupy a thing…You must believe that we will fight, defeat and annihilate them until not a single Jew remains on the face of the Earth…You will not survive as long as a single one of us remains.”
The Return of Anti-Semitism
It never really went away.
Cloaked in present day idealistic eloquence, and outrageous justifications, one could almost believe it oneself.
These calls for boycotting Israeli products. Some fool likened them to successful sanctions on South Africa.
Steven Hawking adding his voice to the cause. Does he not realise that he is calling for his own death? As Israeli technology is keeping him alive.
How is it different? Boycotting has often been a legitimate means to attempting to force social change. Where do you draw lines?
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
It's Jews and Christians being scapegoated, you moron. Not Nazis and muslims. If Nazis and Muslims were being scapegoated, we'd be hearing of them being hacked up on subways and blown up in cafes. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. Your heroes are the only ones who are doing that.
People being scapegoated vary according to where they are. In many places it is also muslims. The thing is - it's a dangerous thing to start advocating when most of the members of that group do not engage in those actions and are simply being used as a focus for other societal problems.
Tell me..list those "many places" where muslims are being scapegoated by anybody other than other muslims.
MANY PLACES. I expect ten at least. Current.
Germany, England, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, France, Belgium, Ukraine, Russia, Spain, Italy....
- Moderator
- #137
Not all Europe is experiencing a rise in anti-semitism though...here's a kind of surprising article:
Amid rising European anti-Semitism, Portugal sees Jewish renaissance
Amid rising European anti-Semitism, Portugal sees Jewish renaissance
[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews#cite_note-Morris10-13']In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
So you havent yet read the koran and hadiths that spell it out "KILL THE JEWS" Why do you think that the Jews were kept in such low numbers in the M.E., it was the muslims following their religion and having periodic murderfests of the Jews. Just look at Hebron that was attacked and the Jewish residents wiped out 3 times.
Your favourite source tells the whole story
Persecution of Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Traditionally Jews living in Muslim lands, known as dhimmis, were allowed to practice their religion and to administer their internal affairs but were subject to certain conditions.[8] They had to pay the jizya (a per capita tax imposed on free adult non-Muslim males) to Muslims.[9] Dhimmis had an inferior status under Islamic rule. They had several social and legal disabilities such as prohibitions against bearing arms or giving testimony in courts in cases involving Muslims.[10] Contrary to popular belief, the Qur'an did not allow Muslims to force Jews to wear distinctive clothing. Obadiah the Proselyte reported in 1100 AD, that the Caliph had created this rule himself
This was also the chief motivation behind the 1066 Granada massacre, when "[m]ore than 1,500 Jewish families, numbering 4,000 persons, fell in one day",[12] and in Fez in 1033, when 6,000 Jews were killed.[13] There were further massacres in Fez in 1276 and 1465.[14]
The [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_affair']Damascus affair occurred in 1840, when a French monk and his servant disappeared in Damascus. Immediately following, a charge of ritual murder was brought against a large number of Jews in the city including children who were tortured.[/URL]
Pogroms occurred in: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jerusalem (1847), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891), Istanbul (1870, 1874), Buyukdere (1864), Kuzguncuk (1866), Eyub (1868), Edirne (1872), Izmir (1872, 1874).[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews#cite_note-17'][17] There was a massacre of Jews in Baghdad in 1828.[13] There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867.[13]
In 1839, in the eastern [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persia']Persian city of Meshed, a mob burst into the Jewish Quarter, burned the synagogue, and destroyed the Torah scrolls. This is known as the Allahdad incident. It was only by forcible conversion that a massacre was averted.[/URL]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews#cite_note-Morris10-13[/URL]
For those who do not know-----something I learned WAY BACK THEN------from muslims from southeast asia----IN SCHOOL--muslim children are TAUGHT that muslims ---historically treated jews VERY WELL----SO WELL THAT
JEWS "FLOURISHED" because of their FAVORED
POSITION in muslim society. Today muslim children in their
own societies CONTINUE to be so taught
[/URL]
It has just changed icoyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
It's Jews and Christians being scapegoated, you moron. Not Nazis and muslims. If Nazis and Muslims were being scapegoated, we'd be hearing of them being hacked up on subways and blown up in cafes. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. Your heroes are the only ones who are doing that.
in the world today-------Nazism has been relatively sidelined
Nobody said it went away. But it is definitely mainstream now. Look to Coyote. She's the biggest sheep you'll find on this site, and look at the garbage she spouts. She wouldn't do it if it wasn't common. She's never had an original thought in her life.It never really went away.
Cloaked in present day idealistic eloquence, and outrageous justifications, one could almost believe it oneself.
These calls for boycotting Israeli products. Some fool likened them to successful sanctions on South Africa.
Steven Hawking adding his voice to the cause. Does he not realise that he is calling for his own death? As Israeli technology is keeping him alive.
How is it different? Boycotting has often been a legitimate means to attempting to force social change. Where do you draw lines?
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
It's Jews and Christians being scapegoated, you moron. Not Nazis and muslims. If Nazis and Muslims were being scapegoated, we'd be hearing of them being hacked up on subways and blown up in cafes. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. Your heroes are the only ones who are doing that.
People being scapegoated vary according to where they are. In many places it is also muslims. The thing is - it's a dangerous thing to start advocating when most of the members of that group do not engage in those actions and are simply being used as a focus for other societal problems.
Tell me..list those "many places" where muslims are being scapegoated by anybody other than other muslims.
MANY PLACES. I expect ten at least. Current.
Germany, England, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, France, Belgium, Ukraine, Russia, Spain, Italy....
OH? mosques are being BOMBED in England, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, France, Belgium, Ukraine, Spain and Italy?------I did not know
The middle east was historically full of Christians and Jews. The musli
Lololol.. Yeah, right.
NONE of those countries is scapegoating muslims, you lying hack.
You're doing just what nazis and muslims do. Taking examples of their atrocities and calling them acts of self defense. You're disgusting.
ms kiIn 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.In 2011:
"
It is an anti-Semitism that the left does not want to fight, because for it, the Muslims are oppressed, and the left is always on the side of those it defines as oppressed, whether or not the oppression is caused by the terrible governance inside those countries, or scapegoated onto someone else. European anti-racist movements say they are very concerned about "Islamophobic racism," but they are totally reluctant to discuss the anti-Semitism in the Muslim populations.
Hatred towards Israel is now the most widely shared sentiment among Europeans.
The new, current anti-Semitism now adds on to the old kind, the demonization of the State of Israel. The Islamic view of Israel is now the dominant view of Israel in Europe. "
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
Interesting article. And I agree.
The more I've read about anti-semitism, the more I see it in certain Muslim populations as well, as a result of the conflict surrounding Israel.
But here's what I feel - it's not a zero sum equation. Scapegoating innocent people is wrong - it's always wrong - whether it's done because some people of that belief or ethnicity or race have done terrible things, or if it's done because people don't really understand their beliefs or culture. The rhetoric, and the subliminal calls to violence towards those people is the same across the board - even the conspiracy theories. I think any decent person should notice that, and fight against it.
In the US, hate crimes against Jews have gone down, but hate crimes against Muslims have gone up. I don't know what the statistics are in European countries, but I think anti-semitism is more deeply embedded there.
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
So you havent yet read the koran and hadiths that spell it out "KILL THE JEWS" Why do you think that the Jews were kept in such low numbers in the M.E., it was the muslims following their religion and having periodic murderfests of the Jews. Just look at Hebron that was attacked and the Jewish residents wiped out 3 times.
Your favourite source tells the whole story
Persecution of Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Traditionally Jews living in Muslim lands, known as dhimmis, were allowed to practice their religion and to administer their internal affairs but were subject to certain conditions.[8] They had to pay the jizya (a per capita tax imposed on free adult non-Muslim males) to Muslims.[9] Dhimmis had an inferior status under Islamic rule. They had several social and legal disabilities such as prohibitions against bearing arms or giving testimony in courts in cases involving Muslims.[10] Contrary to popular belief, the Qur'an did not allow Muslims to force Jews to wear distinctive clothing. Obadiah the Proselyte reported in 1100 AD, that the Caliph had created this rule himself
This was also the chief motivation behind the 1066 Granada massacre, when "[m]ore than 1,500 Jewish families, numbering 4,000 persons, fell in one day",[12] and in Fez in 1033, when 6,000 Jews were killed.[13] There were further massacres in Fez in 1276 and 1465.[14]
The Damascus affair occurred in 1840, when a French monk and his servant disappeared in Damascus. Immediately following, a charge of ritual murder was brought against a large number of Jews in the city including children who were tortured.
Pogroms occurred in: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jerusalem (1847), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891), Istanbul (1870, 1874), Buyukdere (1864), Kuzguncuk (1866), Eyub (1868), Edirne (1872), Izmir (1872, 1874).[17] There was a massacre of Jews in Baghdad in 1828.[13] There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867.[13]
In 1839, in the eastern Persian city of Meshed, a mob burst into the Jewish Quarter, burned the synagogue, and destroyed the Torah scrolls. This is known as the Allahdad incident. It was only by forcible conversion that a massacre was averted.
It has just changed icoyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
It's Jews and Christians being scapegoated, you moron. Not Nazis and muslims. If Nazis and Muslims were being scapegoated, we'd be hearing of them being hacked up on subways and blown up in cafes. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. Your heroes are the only ones who are doing that.
in the world today-------Nazism has been relatively sidelined
Nobody said it went away. But it is definitely mainstream now. Look to Coyote. She's the biggest sheep you'll find on this site, and look at the garbage she spouts. She wouldn't do it if it wasn't common. She's never had an original thought in her life.It never really went away.
Cloaked in present day idealistic eloquence, and outrageous justifications, one could almost believe it oneself.
These calls for boycotting Israeli products. Some fool likened them to successful sanctions on South Africa.
Steven Hawking adding his voice to the cause. Does he not realise that he is calling for his own death? As Israeli technology is keeping him alive.
How is it different? Boycotting has often been a legitimate means to attempting to force social change. Where do you draw lines?
coyote---you are a victim of wishful thinking and gullibility as
demonstrated by several of your statements. Your first paragraph made me laugh. Muslims do not NEED Israel to
hate jews. In fact muslims do not even need jews to hate
jews. Hatred of jews is more prominent amongst people who
never saw a jew in their lives than it is in Gaza. I learned that
fact when I first encountered muslims from South east Asia---VERY FEW of whom had ever met a jew before getting into
the USA. In fact---WAY BACK THEN---when I was young----
the least of the newly arriving professionals----as to Jew-hatred---were muslims who had known jews------like the Iranians and Egyptians (back then). -----Later on I came to know lots of jews who were jews in muslim lands long before
1948---------they were CLEARLY HATED in their native
arab/muslim lands-----as were their grandparents and ancestors way back to the time of the GREAT AND GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC CONQUEST
Once you start to JUSTIFY scapegoating you enter very dangerous territory.
Muslims didn't particularly hate Jews historically prior to Israel (and no, I'm not saying they coexisted in sweetness and light) - but they often had peaceful coexistence and at times flourished. Historically - religious minorities have always had troubled times under the majority religion and religion and government were the same. I think WW2, the rise of Jewish nationalist inspirations and Arab nationalist inspirations created much greater friction that has always grown.
It's Jews and Christians being scapegoated, you moron. Not Nazis and muslims. If Nazis and Muslims were being scapegoated, we'd be hearing of them being hacked up on subways and blown up in cafes. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. Your heroes are the only ones who are doing that.
People being scapegoated vary according to where they are. In many places it is also muslims. The thing is - it's a dangerous thing to start advocating when most of the members of that group do not engage in those actions and are simply being used as a focus for other societal problems.
Tell me..list those "many places" where muslims are being scapegoated by anybody other than other muslims.
MANY PLACES. I expect ten at least. Current.
Germany, England, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, France, Belgium, Ukraine, Russia, Spain, Italy....
Lololol.. Yeah, right.
NONE of those countries is scapegoating muslims, you lying hack.
You're doing just what nazis and muslims do. Taking examples of their atrocities and calling them acts of self defense. You're disgusting.
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