The TRUE cost of carbon-based fuels

[Crick]

I expect it to cost slightly more because its current cost in the US market is artificially reduced. What we pay for it doesn't reflect its true cost. I am perfectly willing to pay an increased cost/kwh for energy that does not involve massive CO2 waste be dumped into the environment. I have children. I consider it a small investment in their future.

But to say its cost is going to increase by even ONE order of magnitude is blithering nonsense, much less "several orders of magnitude".

 

[Bfgrn]

Externalization

Kentucky...a prime example of how polluters and cartels have so subverted the political landscape that taxpayers are paying them. In return, they get destroyed communities, destroyed roads and their kids have respiratory problems, high incidents of cancer and chronic asthma.

But right wing regressives in America will find any excuse to cower to the dirty energy cartels.

The Impact of Coal on the Kentucky State Budget
Executive Summary

Rapid and dramatic changes in the world’s approach to energy have major implications for Kentucky and its coal industry. Concerns about climate change are driving policy that favors cleaner energy sources and increases the price of fossil fuels. The transition to sustainable forms of energy is becoming a major economic driver, and states are moving aggressively to develop, produce and install the energy technologies of the future. Long reliant on coal for jobs and electricity, Kentucky faces major challenges and difficult choices in the coming years.

These energy challenges come in the midst of Kentucky’s state fiscal crisis and sluggish economic performance. The gap between Kentucky’s revenues and expenditures makes it increasingly difficult to sustain existing public services. A recent University of Kentucky report notes that Kentucky ranks 44th among states in per capita income, just as in 1970, while other southern states like North Carolina and Georgia have out-performed the Commonwealth in recent years.1 Eastern Kentucky still includes 20 of the 100 poorest counties in the United States measured by median household income.2

In this critical energy, fiscal and economic context, it is increasingly important for Kentuckians to understand the role and impact of coal in our state. Coal provides economic benefits including jobs, low electricity rates and tax revenue. But the coal industry also imposes a number of costs ranging from regulatory and public infrastructure expenses to environmental and health impacts.

Coal and the Budget

The Impact of Coal on the Kentucky State Budget tells one aspect of the story of coal’s costs and benefits. The report provides an analysis of the industry’s fiscal impact by estimating the tax revenues generated by coal and the state expenditures associated with supporting the industry. We estimate for Fiscal Year 2006 Kentucky provided a net subsidy of nearly $115 million to the coal industry (see Figure 1).

Coal is responsible for an estimated $528 million in state revenues and $643 million in state expenditures. The $528 million in revenues includes $224 million from the coal severance tax and revenues from the corporate income, individual income, sales, property (including unmined minerals) and transportation taxes as well as permit fees. The $643 million in estimated expenditures includes $239 million to address the industry’s impacts on the coal haul road system as well as expenditures to regulate the environmental and health and safety impacts of coal, support coal worker training, conduct research and development for the coal industry, promote education about coal in the public schools and support the residents directly and indirectly employed by coal. Total costs also include $85 million in tax expenditures designed to subsidize the mining and burning of coal.

More

 

[daveman]

how do you know the taxes take into acct all externalities? You don't

No kidding, moron. The taxes don't...but the price of the product DOES.

You should probably just stop now. You're really no good at this.

 

[daveman]

Obama has two options
1. Invest in fusion until we can use it to move pass fosil fuels.
2. Mandate solar of at least 2kw on each new home.

Do you really expect to see fusion-powered vehicles?

 

[Crick]

Obama has far more than two options and the two Matthew noted would certainly be w-a-a-a-a-a-a-y down the list.

 

[mamooth]

Do you really expect to see fusion-powered vehicles?

Didn't you see how the Mr. Fusion unit could create the necessary 1.21 jigawatts necessary to power the DeLorean?

 

[Dot Com]

Heres what Mother Earth looks like in an little-to-no regulation (AKA- libertarian-like) shit hole

http://i.imgur.com/XaYOT7I.jpg

Thats Shanghai bitchez.

 

[Kosh]

Another AGW hack thread:

Of all the carbon emitted into the atmosphere each year, 210 billion tons are from natural sources, and only 6.3 billion tons are from man's activity. Man's burning of fossil fuel, therefore only accounts for 3 percent of total emissions of CO2.

People are never told that the most powerful greenhouse gases by orders of magnitude is water vapor and clouds. When only human emitted CO2 is considered, less than one percent of the greenhouse gas potential comes from human activity. Yet, all the global warming is supposed to be attributed to it. Water vapor plays a huge role in keeping the earth warm; 70 times more powerful than the CO2 emitted by human activity. When clouds are added, CO2 becomes even less important. However, clouds not only trap heat, low elevation clouds also reflect much of the incoming solar radiation, so the sun's heat never reaches the earth's surface which cools the earth. It is this mechanism that a growing number of scientists believe is one of the primary mechanisms warming and cooling the earth.

 

[Crick]

Can you imagine getting lost there? Can you imaging being there and NOT being lost?

 

[LoneLaugher]

The cost of carbon based fuels is also found in the health of the population. Treating the illnesses associated with breathing in shitty air is expensive.

 

[skookerasbil]

The cost of carbon based fuels is also found in the health of the population. Treating the illnesses associated with breathing in shitty air is expensive.

And?

 

[skookerasbil]

These meathead AGW k00ks dream of a world without fossil fuels ( the chances of which are zero )

Take two minutes and listen to this nut......just no ability co connect even one dot!!! Far left people never, ever, ever stop for a moment to consider the following two questions >>>


1) At what cost?

or

2) As compared to what?



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aACN9ZYtFoY]Life Without Fossil Fuels - Pilot - YouTube[/ame]


Meanwhile, if the mental cases on this forum got their way, we'd ban fossil fuels tomorrow........and this is what our life would be like >>>>


◾After elevated tanks of municipal water systems were depleted of drinking water in a few days, there would be no more water supply. This would force people to start looking for alternate sources, and we’d be back to a time when water treatment was unknown. Disease and death would follow for many as tainted water spreads disease. People with water wells would have to tear out electric pumps and install hand pumps or windmills to get water.
◾Related to the first point, toilets would be useless without water to flush them. Fecal matter disposal becomes an issue as gravity fed sewage systems eventually clog, and eventually fecal matter will end up in streams and rivers contributing to the spread of diseases much like the Great Stink in old London.
◾Garbage collection becomes a thing of the past. Garbage will be piled high in the streets.
◾People that have grid tied solar power systems would be no better off than their neighbors, because the DC to AC inverters require an AC power grid presence signal. Otherwise they shut off for safety. Some people with electrical skills might be able to rewire them, but then they’d only have electricity during daytime.
◾People who may have working solar energy might be targeted by the have-nots. They might wish they had paid attention to the Second Amendment to protect their home based energy source. People who still have gasoline in their cars trying to escape cities might find themselves victims of mob attacks as the have-nots look for the last remaining bits of energy. Mad-Max world ensues.
◾Windmill farms (that also need grid presence to operate) will stand as icons of folly, unusable, and cursed by the populace since they can’t make use of them. Eventually they’ll all look like these wind farms or fall down.
◾Radical climatologists like Mike Mann and James Hansen will no longer be able to communicate their apocalyptic visions of the future to us, since there will be no Internet or radio/TV networks or newspapers printed to disseminate their views.
◾Along the same lines, thankfully, we’d never see another episode of Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo.
◾Climate modelers like Kevin Trenberth would never be able to run another computer model telling us how hot our future apocalypse might be, since his NCAR computer is run by Wyoming coal. Likewise, NOAA’s Gaea supercomputer will be DOA since it can’t run on recycled vegetable oil.
◾Al Gore will no longer be able to jet around the world to tell us how the world will end soon if we don’t pay attention to his new book about The Future. He’ll be reduced to holing up in one of his many properties and hoping the Mad-Maxers don’t come for his solar panels.
◾Congress would be reduced to debating in hot, sweaty, non air-conditioned rooms, just like the founders of our country did at the first Continental Congress and as they did in the summer of 1988, when Dr. James Hansen and his sponsor, Senator Tim Wirth, turned off the A/C in the hearing room for effect while they sold the idea of global warming to the Senators.
◾Without air conditioning, city dwellers would truly experience the Urban Heat Island effect in the summer, that is when they weren’t scrounging for food and water, and fighting off the Mad-Maxer gangs who would take anything they could from them, including their life.
◾Wood burning to stay warm during the winter becomes all the rage again. Smoke pollution returns to cities, especially in winter.
◾Real climate refugees start streaming south from high latitude countries as people run out of fuel. Many towns in Alaska and Siberia that survive only because of regular supplies of heating oil and gasoline would be abandoned.
◾Global warming, environmentalism, politics; all would be a thing of the past, since survival trumps everything.
◾Paul Ehrlich wanders the streets near Stanford, dressed in rags shouting at people “I was right! I was right!“



Oh....did I mention no more cell phones s0ns......the plastics are petroleum based!!! We connect with each other via Little Rascal's telephones: a chord and two empty concentrated juice cans!!!



Would this not be awesome??????????





Meanwhile........and how funny is this? CO2 is a fucking TRACE GAS!!!! But don't take my word for it >>>



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBO2IstMi2A]CO2 is a trace gas. - YouTube[/ame]




So........it is said that LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER



And who could argue? Think about it.......imagine ANY world politician running on this platform >>



I say we need to enter this new world with a vision. A vision of the future for all of us!!! A place where the air we breath is 100% pure!! Of course,........we're going to have to accept some significant life changes and yes, people will be living in a time that resembles the 17th century!!! But we can do it........YES WE CAN!!!"












yuk........yuk.........yuk............

 

[LoneLaugher]

The cost of carbon based fuels is also found in the health of the population. Treating the illnesses associated with breathing in shitty air is expensive.

And?

I think you are mistaking me for someone else.

 

[skookerasbil]

Just an observation........you see that vid above of the female AGW nutter.......what is it that every single feminist bulldog is also a climate k00k? All of them always jump right on board the hysterical angst/misery/anger/radical train!!! Whats up with that dynamic?