The Trinity

[stivex]

it's like a flock of birds that are freezing to death out side in sub zero weather/storm....a man sees this and opens his heated barn's doors to let them in, so that they would be safe and warm....but none in the flock understood what the man was trying to show them, and they stayed outside of the barn instead of in the safety of it....the man is so distraught to see the birds dying off, one by one.

he dispairingly watches the birds and WISHES he could turn himself in to a bird in that flock....SO THAT he could show them the WAY to life, to safety.....

take this anology, and substitute the man with God, and the flock with humans, and turning himself in to a bird, Jesus, to show the confused birds the way or us, in to the barn....in to life or safety.

care

Very good! I still don't think God made himself Jesus to come to Earth. I think he created Jesus for this purpose. Let us also realize that Jesus went to Heaven bodily. Based on this premise, all angels are also God. So, is Satan.

 

[Care4all]

No, Jesus was crucified because he pissed off the pharisees by saying that God was his father, and because he told them the temple would fall. He was crucified because he claimed it was through God that he was able to perform miracles, and that his powers came directly from God his father. He was crucified because people believed him and the pharisees were afraid that the growing numbers of Christians would alarm Romans and bring their wrath down upon them, disturbing the status quo.

allie, he was crucified or was given the justification of being crucified by the pharisees because he claimed to be God....along with those things as you mentioned as the underlying reasons!

John 14:7-10 [7] If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [8] Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." [9] Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? [10] Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

John 10:37-38 [37] Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. [38] But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

Matthew 27:43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, `I am the Son of God.'"

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.

"When Jesus said 'I and the Father are one' didn't He just mean they are of one accord, they are merely like-minded?"

Taken alone, statements such as "I and the Father are one." and "The Father is in me, and I am in the Father." could mean simply that Jesus agrees with God. But in the overall context of the Bible this cannot be:

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:10 [Speaking to the Father] All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.

[/B]

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't see how that contradicts anything I've said.

 

[Care4all]

I don't see how that contradicts anything I've said.

it doesn't...

 

[Shogun]

oh how I love denominations that insist that THEY are correct...

 

[dilloduck]

OR at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

Interesting little option there !

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You post the evidence he is not God and claim it proves he is. Talk about brain washed.

 

[Richard-H]

It's really weird, because I'm not a religious person...but apparently, unlike almost all "religious" people, I've actually read the gospels. Guess what:

Jesus ALWAYS refered to himself as "The Son of MAN", NOT "The Son of God". He SAID: " ALL THESE THINGS ARE WITHIN THE POWERS OF THE SON OF MAN". Everyone else declared him to be "the Son of God", which was why he was considered a threat and cruxified, but He Himself ALWAYS called Himself "the Son of MAN".


You religious people really ought to take the time to read the gospels, instead of just listening to whatever the local pastor wants to tell you. Of course, if there were such a thing as an ancient and world wide consiracy by satanists to undermine Christianity (which like duh...there is), the best way to do so would be to form a system of institutions that completely pervert the true message of Jesus.

I know too much about religion, which is why I refuse to be religious. It's such a mess. Just read the Gospels, pay attention to them, and forget everything else.

 

[Eightball]

It's really weird, because I'm not a religious person...but apparently, unlike almost all "religious" people, I've actually read the gospels. Guess what:

Jesus ALWAYS refered to himself as "The Son of MAN", NOT "The Son of God". He SAID: " ALL THESE THINGS ARE WITHIN THE POWERS OF THE SON OF MAN". Everyone else declared him to be "the Son of God", which was why he was considered a threat and cruxified, but He Himself ALWAYS called Himself "the Son of MAN".


You religious people really ought to take the time to read the gospels, instead of just listening to whatever the local pastor wants to tell you. Of course, if there were such a thing as an ancient and world wide consiracy by satanists to undermine Christianity (which like duh...there is), the best way to do so would be to form a system of institutions that completely pervert the true message of Jesus.

I know too much about religion, which is why I refuse to be religious. It's such a mess. Just read the Gospels, pay attention to them, and forget everything else.

Your sadly misinformed, could hardly have really read the gospels to come up with that outlandish statement.

Let's see here: Matthew: 3:17, God Himself tells the disciples this is My Son. Matthew: 4:3, The devil or Lucifer says to Jesus, "If you are the Son of God....."
Matthew 14:33 "Truly You are the Son of God"..(Jesus didn't correct or refute this persons statement) Matthew: 16:16 Peters says, "You are the Christ, the Son of God...." (Jesus does not refute Peter) Matt 26:63, 27:54, Mark: 1:11, 9:7, Luke 1:32 "Son of the Most High(God)", John 3:16 "that He Gave His one and only Son...." 11:4, 17:1, Romans 1:4, 5:10, 8:3, 8:32, Galatians 2:20, 4:4, Hebrews 1:5....

I'm getting typer's cramp listing verses that refer to Jesus as the Son of God, or God's Son.
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Food For Thought - Richard-H;747458 - Romans Chapter One

18For (AJ)the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who (AK)suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

19because (AL)that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

20For (AM)since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, (AN)being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

21For even though they knew God, they did not [c]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became (AO)futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22(AP)Professing to be wise, they became fools,

 

[Richard-H]

If you'll notice, everyone of your Bible quotes refers to someone else, besides Jesus calling Him the "Son of God". Even referencing to God calling Him the "Son of God" are THIRD PARTY REFERENCES. Pay attention to what Jesus said, not what everyoe else said about Him.

I don't care what Peter said. I especially don't care what Satan said. Nor do I care a bout the later Christian books. Pay close attention only to what JESUS SAID.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Jesus wrote no books of the Bible, so in essence ALL of his words come to us 2nd hand.

 

[Anguille]

Very good! I still don't think God made himself Jesus to come to Earth. I think he created Jesus for this purpose. Let us also realize that Jesus went to Heaven bodily. Based on this premise, all angels are also God. So, is Satan.

Satin too?

 

[Glori.B]

Satin too?

S A T A N

the fallen angel

 

[dilloduck]

S A T A N

the fallen angel

How do YOU know so much about S A T A N , huh ??

 

[Glori.B]

How do YOU know so much about S A T A N , huh ??

satan in satin?

 

[dilloduck]

satan in satin?

ohhhhhhh I know her !!!

Never mind .

 

[Anguille]

S A T A N

the fallen angel

It was a intentional misspelling.

 

[Glori.B]

It was an intentional misspelling.

yes, i realize.

 

[Shogun]

yup.. STILL enjoying this thread.

 

[Eightball]

If you'll notice, everyone of your Bible quotes refers to someone else, besides Jesus calling Him the "Son of God". Even referencing to God calling Him the "Son of God" are THIRD PARTY REFERENCES. Pay attention to what Jesus said, not what everyoe else said about Him.

I don't care what Peter said. I especially don't care what Satan said. Nor do I care a bout the later Christian books. Pay close attention only to what JESUS SAID.

I knew that response would come from you.

I guess you don't understand why He called Himself the "Son of Man".

This is straight out of the very respected Unger's Bible Encylopedia. Moody Press, Copyright 1957, sixteenth printing, 1970.

Son of Man Greek, "huios tou anthropou"

This is a term, like "the Son of God," which is now theologiclly chiefly associated with Christ and is used in both the Old and New Testaments. Christ employed this expression to designate Himself some eighty times. It portrays Him as the Representative Man. It designates Him as the "last Adam" in distinction to the "first man Adam" (1 Cor. 15:45). It sets Him forth as "the Second Man...the Lord from heaven" as over against "the first man... of the earth" (1 Cor. 15:47). "The Son of Man" is thus our Lord's racial name, as the "Son of David" is distinctly his Jewish name and "the Son of God" His Divine Name. This term is uniformly used of Christ in connection with His mission (Luke 19:10), His death and resurrection (Matt. 12:40; 20:18; 26:2) and His second advent (Matt. 24:37-44; Luke 12:40). It transcends purely Jewish limitations and has application to the salvation of the entire race. Thus, when Nathaniel owns Christ as "King of Israel" our Lord's reply is, "thou shalt see greater things; the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man." It is, for example, in this name that universal judgement is committed to our Lord (John 5:22, 27). The term also implies that in Him the O.T. prophetic blessings centering in the coming Man are to find their fulfillment (Gen. 3:15; Psalms 8:4; Isaiah 7:14; 9:6,7; Zechariah 13:7). The term "son of man" occurs conspicuously in the Book of Ezekiel, being used ninety-two times in the addressing the prophet. The thought of going beyond the confines of Judaism is also involved in the phrase when applied to Ezekiel. When Israel was in her captivity, being oblivious of her special mission (Jeremiah 11:10; Ezekiel 5:5-8), the Lord reminds her(Israel) by this term of address to Ezekiel that He will not forsake her but that nevertheless she is only a small portion of the race for whom He is concerned. As used of Ezekiel, the expression "the son of man" suggests what the prophet is to God, not what he is to himself. As "the son of man" the prophet is chosen, spiritually endowed and delegated by God. These factors are also true of the Messiah as the Representative Man, the new Head of regenerated humanity.-----******
Now Jesus' designation as "Son of Man" is whole different meaning than God's designation towards prophets in the O.T..

The Messiah or Son of Man is designated to judge all mankind, an office only held by God Himself.
*******
One other problem we are dealing with here. The bible is not a "pick and choose" reference book of God's nature or historical presence/impact upon earthly man.

It was intended to be read and understood in entirety and not to be contextually rejected where it isn't authored by Mark, Matthew, Luke, or John. All, or most of the Epistles were authored by the apostle who replaced Judas who betrayed Jesus; Saul who was renamed, "Paul" by Jesus Himself.

Paul was accepted by the apostles as the bonafide 12th apostle, via his visit to Jerusalem, and his performing certain signs/miracles of Apostleship. This can be found in the book of Acts, authored by Luke.
******
When people want to refute the existence of God, they set their own parameters of what is acceptable to them and what is not in respect to scripture's communicative text.

You have set parameters.......namely only certain persons are deemed believeable and others are not in reference to identifying Jesus as the Son of God. Where is your authority to do this?

Also, if you were to gleen each scriptural verse I gave you in the previous post, you would find that there are some, where Jesus does indeed refer to Himself as the Son of God, and not a second party doing it.

If you do your homework well, you won't have an argument with Jesus' divine identity.

Jesus gave up his Godly powers and allowed Himself to be totally flesh and blood and the second Adam to set our race back to a relationship with God the Father. Jesus was God's means through propitiation at the cross, to do so. Jesus allowed mere man and of course His Father in heaven to designate Him in the office of Son of God.

Only God can redeem man. Man cannot redeem Himself. Jesus couldn't redeem man unless He was God incarnate. That's self explanatory. As Romans 3:23 succinctly says, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". Only God could intervene, and the coming Messiah or the Son of God/Son of Man was anxiously waited-for for centuries until that special day in Bethlehem.

Jesus allowed His identity as "God" or Son of God to be made apparent through His Father designating that title via the "Transfiguration", and also when He allowed John to baptize Him. In both cases God the Father said, "This is my Son.........!" Do you want to question that part of scripture where God the Father designates Jesus as His Son????????

If you do.........then your just throwing up little road blocks and excuses to stick to your unbelief.........Your fighting against God, and not man........The scriptures are very clear. You are trying very hard to not accept or "see" the obvious. That's called "unbelief". The Holy Spirit works on the souls of every man/woman/child, and we are endowed with "free will" to reject the obvious and go our own way. So you have been "blessed" with the ability to determine to much extent your life's eternal destination. "Choose wisely"