The Supposed Virgin Birth

[guno]

"The Virgin Birth is a fundamental tenet of most forms of Christianity. Yet it is very odd that none of the earlier Christian books mention it. The book of Mark, probably the first written, makes no mention of it at all. One would think that it would be worth at least one sentence, if not the amount spent on it by the book of Matthew. It is evident that Mark had never heard of the Virgin Birth. The book of John does not mention it either.

The reason that the virgin birth concept was added to Christianity was because the first Christians were very unsuccessful at converting Jews. Most Jews knew they had something better, so they would not leave Judaism for Christianity. Remember: at the beginning it was nothing more than a very small messianic movement within Judaism, and after their "messiah" died, it was rather hard to convert Jews to their movement.

So the Christians had to do something different. They had to develop appeal. So, they began to assume beliefs that pagan people found attractive. That was how they came up with the concepts of the trinity, transubstantiation, the need to "save" everyone through the resurrection of a messiah, virgin birth, and all the other wacky ideas of Christianity. All these were lifted straight from other religions, some of which preceded Christianity by 700 years, Pagans just lapped up things like demigods, gods having intercourse with humans, virgins giving birth. Such claims meant something to pagans, and they were already familiar with such beliefs from their own cultures. So leaving a pagan religion to join Christianity was not much of a stretch, especially after Paul declared that the pagans did not need to keep the Commandments of the Torah."

The Supposed Virgin Birth

 

[guno]

"The Virgin Birth is a fundamental tenet of most forms of Christianity. Yet it is very odd that none of the earlier Christian books mention it. The book of Mark, probably the first written, makes no mention of it at all. One would think that it would be worth at least one sentence, if not the amount spent on it by the book of Matthew. It is evident that Mark had never heard of the Virgin Birth. The book of John does not mention it either.

The reason that the virgin birth concept was added to Christianity was because the first Christians were very unsuccessful at converting Jews. Most Jews knew they had something better, so they would not leave Judaism for Christianity. Remember: at the beginning it was nothing more than a very small messianic movement within Judaism, and after their "messiah" died, it was rather hard to convert Jews to their movement.



So the Christians had to do something different. They had to develop appeal. So, they began to assume beliefs that pagan people found attractive. That was how they came up with the concepts of the trinity, transubstantiation, the need to "save" everyone through the resurrection of a messiah, virgin birth, and all the other wacky ideas of Christianity. All these were lifted straight from other religions, some of which preceded Christianity by 700 years, Pagans just lapped up things like demigods, gods having intercourse with humans, virgins giving birth. Such claims meant something to pagans, and they were already familiar with such beliefs from their own cultures. So leaving a pagan religion to join Christianity was not much of a stretch, especially after Paul declared that the pagans did not need to keep the Commandments of the Torah."

The Supposed Virgin Birth

In the christian bible ,Matthew 1:23 reads, "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Emmanuel - which means, 'God with us.'" Christians point to this "virgin birth" as evidence of Messianic prophecy fulfilled by Jesus. Is this a valid example of fulfilled prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 predicting the virgin birth of Jesus

The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 is "almah," and its meaning is "young woman". NOT virgin

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Have a look at this, Guno.

Hebrews 7 NET Bible

The Nature of Melchizedek’s Priesthood
1Now this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, met Abraham as he was returning from defeating the kings and blessed him.2To him also Abraham apportioned a tithe of everything. His name first means king of righteousness, then king of Salem, that is, king of peace.3Without father, without mother, without genealogy, he has neither beginning of days nor end of life but is like the son of God, and he remains a priest for all time.4But see how great he must be, if Abraham the patriarch gave him a tithe of his plunder.5And those of the sons of Levi who receive the priestly office have authorization according to the law to collect a tithe from the people, that is, from their fellow countrymen, although they too are descendants of Abraham.6But Melchizedek who does not share their ancestry collected a tithe from Abraham and blessed the one who possessed the promise.7Now without dispute the inferior is blessed by the superior,8and in one case tithes are received by mortal men, while in the other by him who is affirmed to be alive.9And it could be said that Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid a tithe through Abraham.10For he was still in his ancestor Abraham’s loins when Melchizedek met him.
Jesus and the Priesthood of Melchizedek
11So if perfection had in fact been possible through the Levitical priesthood – for on that basis the people received the law – what further need would there have been for another priest to arise, said to be in the order of Melchizedek and not in Aaron’s order?12For when the priesthood changes, a change in the law must come as well.13Yet the one these things are spoken about belongs to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever officiated at the altar.14For it is clear that our Lord is descended from Judah, yet Moses said nothing about priests in connection with that tribe.15And this is even clearer if another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek,16who has become a priest not by a legal regulation about physical descent but by the power of an indestructible life.17For here is the testimony about him: “You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”18On the one hand a former command is set aside because it is weak and useless,19for the law made nothing perfect. On the other hand a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.20And since this was not done without a sworn affirmation – for the others have become priests without a sworn affirmation,21but Jesus did so with a sworn affirmation by the one who said to him, “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, ‘You are a priest forever’” –22accordingly Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.23And the others who became priests were numerous, because death prevented them from continuing in office,24but he holds his priesthood permanently since he lives forever.25So he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.26For it is indeed fitting for us to have such a high priest: holy, innocent, undefiled, separate from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.27He has no need to do every day what those priests do, to offer sacrifices first for their own sins and then for the sins of the people, since he did this in offering himself once for all.28For the law appoints as high priests men subject to weakness, but the word of solemn affirmation that came after the law appoints a son made perfect forever.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Absolutely correct, guno. Luke, especially, fictionalized his gospel to dovetail it in to past scripture's prophesies. Frankly, it is so flagrant that it is a little embarrassing.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Totally untrue, Vandal. First let me address the matter of Guno's claim on the word "almah'..

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

"The Virgin Birth is a fundamental tenet of most forms of Christianity. Yet it is very odd that none of the earlier Christian books mention it. The book of Mark, probably the first written, makes no mention of it at all. One would think that it would be worth at least one sentence, if not the amount spent on it by the book of Matthew. It is evident that Mark had never heard of the Virgin Birth. The book of John does not mention it either.

The reason that the virgin birth concept was added to Christianity was because the first Christians were very unsuccessful at converting Jews. Most Jews knew they had something better, so they would not leave Judaism for Christianity. Remember: at the beginning it was nothing more than a very small messianic movement within Judaism, and after their "messiah" died, it was rather hard to convert Jews to their movement.



So the Christians had to do something different. They had to develop appeal. So, they began to assume beliefs that pagan people found attractive. That was how they came up with the concepts of the trinity, transubstantiation, the need to "save" everyone through the resurrection of a messiah, virgin birth, and all the other wacky ideas of Christianity. All these were lifted straight from other religions, some of which preceded Christianity by 700 years, Pagans just lapped up things like demigods, gods having intercourse with humans, virgins giving birth. Such claims meant something to pagans, and they were already familiar with such beliefs from their own cultures. So leaving a pagan religion to join Christianity was not much of a stretch, especially after Paul declared that the pagans did not need to keep the Commandments of the Torah."

The Supposed Virgin Birth

In the christian bible ,Matthew 1:23 reads, "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Emmanuel - which means, 'God with us.'" Christians point to this "virgin birth" as evidence of Messianic prophecy fulfilled by Jesus. Is this a valid example of fulfilled prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 predicting the virgin birth of Jesus

The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 is "almah," and its meaning is "young woman". NOT virgin

You are wrong. Look at this study, Guno and I will post the quotes that apply:
http://www.heartofisrael.net/chazak/articles/almah.html

First, we should note that there are in Isaiah 7:14, according to Beegle (20), no variant readings in "any of the known manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible, and even the Dead Sea Scroll (from about 100 B.C.)" has the same word. We should also note that the Jewish, pre-Christian Greek interpretation and translation (i.e., the Septuagint--contra the wild, unfounded claim made by Singer that it is "a product of the church") of Isaiah was made about 200 B.C.. This means that there was about a 200-year overlap between the Hebrew and Greek texts before Christianity even began. That the Greek translation of the OT was made by 200 B.C. is supported by a wide number of scholars: Reymond (4, note 7), Buckwalter (12), Feinberg (1967: 43), Barrett (13), Bulman (481) also notes that the translators were "much closer to Biblical Hebrew as a living language than any scholars today". (And we shouldn't forget to mention the critics!); Bulman also noted, on page 482, the appropriate comment made by Rahlfs (Alfred Rahlfs, Septuaginta. Vol. 1 (1949): p. xxiii.) "that the early Christians, in their dispute with the Jews over this verse, "justifiably maintained that this rendering originated from the old Jewish translators themselves."" We should also point out that the Hebrew text started to be systematized, leading to the Masoretic text, in about 100 A.D.; this adds another 100 years onto the overlap between the Septuagint and the Hebrew text. There is no known controversy over the use of the word "parthenos" in Isaiah 7:14 until the Christians used the text as a "proof-text" for the divinity of Jesus.
____________________________

There was no contraversy prior Christians using the text as evidence in the virgin birth, Guno. Stay tuned. There is more -

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

http://www.heartofisrael.net/chazak/articles/almah.html
The Hebrew word "'almah" is used seven times in the OT; in the table below the translations are from the New King James Version.

TABLE 1: The Hebrew Word "'almah" as used in the OT
Genesis 24:43 "Behold, I stand by the well of water; and it shall come to pass that when the virgin comes out to draw water, and I say to her, "Please give me a little water from your pitcher to drink:""

Exodus 2:8 "And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, "Go." So the maiden went and called the child's mother."

Psalm 68:25 "The singers went before, the players on instruments followed after; Among them were themaidens playing timbrels."

Proverbs 30:19 "The way of an eagle in the air, The way of a serpent on a rock, The way of a ship in the midst of the sea, And the way of a man with a virgin."

Song of Solomon 1:3 "Because of the fragrance of your good ointments, Your name is ointment poured forth; Therefore the virgins love you."

Song of Solomon 6:8 "There are sixty queens And eighty concubines, And virgins without number."

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel."
________________

interesting fact* not once has the word almah been used to describe anything but a virgin in the old testament. not once. NOT ONCE. Stay tuned for more. I'm not finished yet.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

http://www.heartofisrael.net/chazak/articles/almah.html

Four things are very obvious from reading the above verses. One, it cannot "be proved 'alma designates a young woman who is not a virgin." [Macrae (672) [emphasis added], contra Kirby who claims "that the context many times demands that "almah" is *not* rendered as "virgin," see also J. G. Machen, The Virgin Birth of Christ, p. 288, cited by Feinberg (1967: 45); Price states it this way: "No usage of the word "almah" in the Hebrew bible can be shown to mean other than a sexually mature virgin ...


"; Vawter (310) declares that "nowhere in the OT is 'almah used in a way that certainly excludes the idea of virginity"; these are contra the claim made by Nahigian, Kirby and others--see below.]

Two, while this word isn't a "technical term for a virgin: it does represent a "young woman one of whose characteristics is virginity." [ibid.; see also Davies and Allison (214); contra Showalter (790) who claims that 'almah is "without any implication of virginity"; or, Clements (88) who states that the young woman "is not necessarily a virgin"; Ibn Ezra (42) states it even stronger [almah] "is certainly not a virgin"; to which Toy (531) and Kirby agrees -- note that not a single one of these writers provides any support for such a claim. See also Solomon Mandelkern, Veteris Testamenti Concordantiae (Tel Aviv, 1978): 881; he defines "'almah" as "puella nubilis," "virgo matura," "puella nubilis" means marriageable child and "virgo matura" means mature virgin. We should note here that Jerome, who studied under the rabbi's of his time, used the word virgo.] In his Basic Theology (Victor Press), Charles Ryrie says "There is no instance where it can be proved that almah designates a young woman who is not a virgin." This is very important as we will see later. Watts (99) suggests that the "common meaning is one who is sexually mature. It is difficult to find a word in English that is capable of the same range of meaning. "Virgin" is too narrow, while "young woman" is too broad." Sauer makes the same points in his article. Price defined almah as "sexually mature virgin." After analyzing the use of the term "'almah" in the OT, Niessen (147) concludes, that "a more accurate translation would be "young virgin"." This would be an especially appropriate translation considering the cultural context which is something most critics seem to ignore; for an example, see Moody (62-3). Likewise, even Cranfield (181) understates the evidence at hand when he notes that "the word 'almah; simply denotes a young woman." Why he didn't take note of the connotation of the word is not revealed. Other suggested translations include the following: Fitzmyer (40) and Kissane (88) translates "'almah" as "a young woman of marriageable age." Baab (787) suggests that it might be translated as "be mature sexually." Likewise, Creager (341) notes that etymologically speaking "the basic meaning was "a sexually mature female."" The combined effect of all these translations is to lead one to the full meaning of the word "'almah": "young woman of marriageable age who is sexually mature who is not already married." Dummelow (418) puts it as "one of maturing and marriageable age." Wheless (235) cites the New Standard Bible Dictionary (939): "Bethulah conveys the idea of virginity, of a young unmarried woman; almah is used simply of a young woman of marriageable age." This definition of almah is misleading because it totally ignores the cultural context and in the case of Isaiah 7:14 it ignores the prophetic context.

Three, there is no evidence from these verses that could lead one to the conclusion that the word "'almah" refers to one who is "newly married" as some lexicons suggest--see Brown - Driver - Briggs - Gesenius, and Koehler and Baumgartner. It is worth noting that neither of these lexicons provided any proof for this "translation." Which is probably why Brennan, page 971, says "it is never used in the Hebrew Bible when referring to a married woman." Or, as Young, (1965): 287 & 288, states the matter: "At the outset we can confidently assert that the word almah is never employed of a married woman. ... Only almah makes clear that the mother was unmarried." Moody (1962) page 789 says that a man and a woman "were considered husband and wife from the time of betrothal" citing Matthew 1:19-20 as support. However, an inspection of the Greek reveals that the word used for "husband" here is "aner" which can mean a "betrothed or future husband."

Some have suggested that given that other English translations use the word "maid" or "maiden" that therefore this indicates as well that the word "'almah" does not mean "virgin." However, as Price notes, these words are synonyms for "virgin" -- Webster's Universities Dictionary (Library Guild, 1940): 1022 has "an unmarried woman; especially a virgin" as part of its first definition of the word "maid."

Four, another thing that can be seen from the above uses of the word "'almah" in the Bible is that there is not a single case, as noted by Brennan (971), Young (121), Surburg (114), Sauer (553), and Kissane (89) in which the word refers to a married woman. This is contra the suggestion made by Owens (58 -- here he violates one of his own rules for proper interpretation), Willis (11-2), the Catholic Encyclopedia, Buckwalter (12), Toy (531), and others. Motyer (125, with emphasis added) notes that "'almah" is "the only Hebrew word which without qualification means an unmarried woman." See also Kraeling (287), Reymond (3), and Wilson (316).

TABLE 2: Other Translations of Isaiah 7:14 (with their respective notes)
Contemporary English Version But the LORD will still give you proof. A virgina is pregnant; she will have a son and will name him Immanuel. {aOr, "young woman." [extended note not included]}

God's Word So the Lord himself will give you this sign: A virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and she will name him Immanuel [God Is With Us].

King James Version Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Living Bible All right then, the Lord himself will choose the sign--a child shall be born to a virgin!d And she shall call him Immanuel (meaning, "God is with us"). {Provides lengthy note on the word translated "virgin".}

Modern Language Bible Therefore the LORD Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and shall bear a son and shall call His name Immanuel;

New American Bible Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

New American Standard Bible "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel."

New Century Version The Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgina will be pregnant. She will have a son, and she will name him Immanuel. {a virgin The Hebrew word means "a young woman." Often this meant a girl who was not married and had not yet had sexual relations with anyone.}

New English Bible Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign: A young woman is with child, and she will bear a son, and will call him Immanuel.

New International Version Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

New Jerusalem Bible The Lord will give you a sign in any case: It is this: the young womanb is with child and will give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel. {b. . . For 'young woman' Gk reads 'virgin', interpreted by Mt of Mary.}

New Living Translation All right then, the Lord himself will choose the sign, Look! The virgin* will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel--'God is with us.' {*Or young woman;.}

New Revised Standard Version Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman q is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. {qGk the virgin;}

Revised English Bible Because you do, the Lord of his own accord will give you a sign; it is this: A young woman is with child, and she will give birth to a son and call him Immanuel.

Revised Standard Version Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman i shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. {iOr, virgin;}

Today's English Version/Good News Bible Well then, the Lord himself will give you a sign: a young woman kwho is pregnant will have a son and will name him 'Immanuel.' {kYOUNG WOMAN: The Hebrew word here translated "young woman" is not the particular term for "virgin," but refers to any young woman of marriageable age. The use of "virgin" in Mt 1:23 reflects a Greek translation of the Old Testament, made some 500 years after Isaiah.;}


It should be noted that the word "'almah" is translated in the Septuagint as "parthenos" (translated as "virgin" in its normal sense; see Carmignac (329-330), Abel (398); Willis (12) makes no attempt to explain why the Septuagint translators then used "parthenos" here if they didn't understand it to mean "virgin".) in only two cases (Is. 7:14 and Gen. 24:43); whereas, "bethulah" is translated as "parthenos" in all but three cases: 1 Kings 1:2, Jer. 14:7, and Esther 2:2 (the Septuagint doesn't translate Est. 2:19). This fact would indicate that "parthenos"/"be'thulah" means a woman (exact age unknown -- to show that a young woman is being referred to the Hebrew would modify "bethulah" by the word "na'arah") who is a virgin --the following exceptions should be noted: Joel 1:8; Est. 2:17; Ezek. 23:3 (these texts will be dealt with below). One might note, as Davies and Allison (214) have, that in Gen. 24:16 the word "be'tulah" is qualified by the clause "no man had known her" which is unusual if "bethulah" strictly meant "virgin" (unless it is a "poetic repetition"--Wadsworth (167) points out that it is "commonplace in the Old Testament" to use "redundancy" "to give emphasis to an important point." Dodd (302) notes the verse but entirely skips the qualification! Willis (11), notes that Wenham makes an illegitimate attempt to extend the qualifier to "'almah" as well since it is used in verse 43.). Note that the qualifying phrase does not appear in 24:43 where the Hebrew uses the word "'almah" and that the Septuagint used "parthenos" in both cases--the use of "parthenos" in the Septuagint in Gen. 24:43 was, Vawter's (322) opinion "obviously predetermined by the btwlh; of v. 16." Now note that this idea doesn't govern the use of "parthenos" in Is. 7:14. For other verses that have to use a qualifying phrase with "bethulah" see Judges 21:12 ("... virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male ...") and Lev. 21:3 ("... a virgin, ..., which hath had no husband; ...") for other examples of qualifying clauses being added. It should also be noted that there are cases in classical literature where "parthenos" refers to females who are not virgins (see Dodd (302) who also refers the reader to Liddel and Scott, and Lattey (94); Ford (294) also supplies examples from undated sepulchral inscriptions. Roberts (503) mentions that this word is "regularly applied to temple prostitutes"; unfortunately, he supplies no details or sources.); just as in Is. 7:14 and Gen. 24:43 "parthenos"/"'almah" means a young woman who is a virgin, or, instead, "young virgin." This confluence of meanings would be the only reason why the Jewish Greek translations of the OT (Aquila, Symmachus and Theodotion) used "neanis" (young woman) instead of "parthenos" at Is. 7:14 (cf. J. Ziegler, Septuaginta xiv Isaias (1939): 147; Both Dodd (304) and Lippard note the change in wording without bothering to ask why these translations changed the wording.); otherwise there would have been no reason to change the wording. In contesting this changing of the word's Jerome argued that although, in Kamesar's words (page 63), "the term almah; itself does not mean virgin, it necessitates virginity ... it entails 'more than virginity'." Kamesar (71) notes that Jerome claimed that "the word almah; is used only of virgins in the Hebrew Bible." Jerome's testimony on this matter is important, as Wilson (315) points out, because he "studied Hebrew under the Jewish rabbis of his time (about A.D. 400)." Likewise, Machen points out that "as a matter of fact there is no place among the seven occurrences of 'almah in the Old Testament where the word is clearly used of a woman who was not a virgin." [J. G. Machen, The Virgin Birth of Christ, page 288; cited by Feinberg (256-7)] This simple fact seems to have escaped the attention of Robby Berry; he claims that the word "'almah" "could refer to a virgin, or not, depending on the context."

 

[guno]

"The Virgin Birth is a fundamental tenet of most forms of Christianity. Yet it is very odd that none of the earlier Christian books mention it. The book of Mark, probably the first written, makes no mention of it at all. One would think that it would be worth at least one sentence, if not the amount spent on it by the book of Matthew. It is evident that Mark had never heard of the Virgin Birth. The book of John does not mention it either.

The reason that the virgin birth concept was added to Christianity was because the first Christians were very unsuccessful at converting Jews. Most Jews knew they had something better, so they would not leave Judaism for Christianity. Remember: at the beginning it was nothing more than a very small messianic movement within Judaism, and after their "messiah" died, it was rather hard to convert Jews to their movement.



So the Christians had to do something different. They had to develop appeal. So, they began to assume beliefs that pagan people found attractive. That was how they came up with the concepts of the trinity, transubstantiation, the need to "save" everyone through the resurrection of a messiah, virgin birth, and all the other wacky ideas of Christianity. All these were lifted straight from other religions, some of which preceded Christianity by 700 years, Pagans just lapped up things like demigods, gods having intercourse with humans, virgins giving birth. Such claims meant something to pagans, and they were already familiar with such beliefs from their own cultures. So leaving a pagan religion to join Christianity was not much of a stretch, especially after Paul declared that the pagans did not need to keep the Commandments of the Torah."

The Supposed Virgin Birth

In the christian bible ,Matthew 1:23 reads, "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Emmanuel - which means, 'God with us.'" Christians point to this "virgin birth" as evidence of Messianic prophecy fulfilled by Jesus. Is this a valid example of fulfilled prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 predicting the virgin birth of Jesus

The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 is "almah," and its meaning is "young woman". NOT virgin

Isaiah 7:14 – A Virgin Birth?

Jews For Judaism Isaiah 7 14 8211 A Virgin Birth

Why do Christians try to convert Jews to a pagan religion?

 

[guno]

http://www.heartofisrael.net/chazak/articles/almah.html

Four things are very obvious from reading the above verses. One, it cannot "be proved 'alma designates a young woman who is not a virgin." [Macrae (672) [emphasis added], contra Kirby who claims "that the context many times demands that "almah" is *not* rendered as "virgin," see also J. G. Machen, The Virgin Birth of Christ, p. 288, cited by Feinberg (1967: 45); Price states it this way: "No usage of the word "almah" in the Hebrew bible can be shown to mean other than a sexually mature virgin ...


"; Vawter (310) declares that "nowhere in the OT is 'almah used in a way that certainly excludes the idea of virginity"; these are contra the claim made by Nahigian, Kirby and others--see below.]

Two, while this word isn't a "technical term for a virgin: it does represent a "young woman one of whose characteristics is virginity." [ibid.; see also Davies and Allison (214); contra Showalter (790) who claims that 'almah is "without any implication of virginity"; or, Clements (88) who states that the young woman "is not necessarily a virgin"; Ibn Ezra (42) states it even stronger [almah] "is certainly not a virgin"; to which Toy (531) and Kirby agrees -- note that not a single one of these writers provides any support for such a claim. See also Solomon Mandelkern, Veteris Testamenti Concordantiae (Tel Aviv, 1978): 881; he defines "'almah" as "puella nubilis," "virgo matura," "puella nubilis" means marriageable child and "virgo matura" means mature virgin. We should note here that Jerome, who studied under the rabbi's of his time, used the word virgo.] In his Basic Theology (Victor Press), Charles Ryrie says "There is no instance where it can be proved that almah designates a young woman who is not a virgin." This is very important as we will see later. Watts (99) suggests that the "common meaning is one who is sexually mature. It is difficult to find a word in English that is capable of the same range of meaning. "Virgin" is too narrow, while "young woman" is too broad." Sauer makes the same points in his article. Price defined almah as "sexually mature virgin." After analyzing the use of the term "'almah" in the OT, Niessen (147) concludes, that "a more accurate translation would be "young virgin"." This would be an especially appropriate translation considering the cultural context which is something most critics seem to ignore; for an example, see Moody (62-3). Likewise, even Cranfield (181) understates the evidence at hand when he notes that "the word 'almah; simply denotes a young woman." Why he didn't take note of the connotation of the word is not revealed. Other suggested translations include the following: Fitzmyer (40) and Kissane (88) translates "'almah" as "a young woman of marriageable age." Baab (787) suggests that it might be translated as "be mature sexually." Likewise, Creager (341) notes that etymologically speaking "the basic meaning was "a sexually mature female."" The combined effect of all these translations is to lead one to the full meaning of the word "'almah": "young woman of marriageable age who is sexually mature who is not already married." Dummelow (418) puts it as "one of maturing and marriageable age." Wheless (235) cites the New Standard Bible Dictionary (939): "Bethulah conveys the idea of virginity, of a young unmarried woman; almah is used simply of a young woman of marriageable age." This definition of almah is misleading because it totally ignores the cultural context and in the case of Isaiah 7:14 it ignores the prophetic context.

Three, there is no evidence from these verses that could lead one to the conclusion that the word "'almah" refers to one who is "newly married" as some lexicons suggest--see Brown - Driver - Briggs - Gesenius, and Koehler and Baumgartner. It is worth noting that neither of these lexicons provided any proof for this "translation." Which is probably why Brennan, page 971, says "it is never used in the Hebrew Bible when referring to a married woman." Or, as Young, (1965): 287 & 288, states the matter: "At the outset we can confidently assert that the word almah is never employed of a married woman. ... Only almah makes clear that the mother was unmarried." Moody (1962) page 789 says that a man and a woman "were considered husband and wife from the time of betrothal" citing Matthew 1:19-20 as support. However, an inspection of the Greek reveals that the word used for "husband" here is "aner" which can mean a "betrothed or future husband."

Some have suggested that given that other English translations use the word "maid" or "maiden" that therefore this indicates as well that the word "'almah" does not mean "virgin." However, as Price notes, these words are synonyms for "virgin" -- Webster's Universities Dictionary (Library Guild, 1940): 1022 has "an unmarried woman; especially a virgin" as part of its first definition of the word "maid."

Four, another thing that can be seen from the above uses of the word "'almah" in the Bible is that there is not a single case, as noted by Brennan (971), Young (121), Surburg (114), Sauer (553), and Kissane (89) in which the word refers to a married woman. This is contra the suggestion made by Owens (58 -- here he violates one of his own rules for proper interpretation), Willis (11-2), the Catholic Encyclopedia, Buckwalter (12), Toy (531), and others. Motyer (125, with emphasis added) notes that "'almah" is "the only Hebrew word which without qualification means an unmarried woman." See also Kraeling (287), Reymond (3), and Wilson (316).

TABLE 2: Other Translations of Isaiah 7:14 (with their respective notes)
Contemporary English Version But the LORD will still give you proof. A virgina is pregnant; she will have a son and will name him Immanuel. {aOr, "young woman." [extended note not included]}

God's Word So the Lord himself will give you this sign: A virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and she will name him Immanuel [God Is With Us].

King James Version Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Living Bible All right then, the Lord himself will choose the sign--a child shall be born to a virgin!d And she shall call him Immanuel (meaning, "God is with us"). {Provides lengthy note on the word translated "virgin".}

Modern Language Bible Therefore the LORD Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and shall bear a son and shall call His name Immanuel;

New American Bible Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

New American Standard Bible "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel."

New Century Version The Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgina will be pregnant. She will have a son, and she will name him Immanuel. {a virgin The Hebrew word means "a young woman." Often this meant a girl who was not married and had not yet had sexual relations with anyone.}

New English Bible Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign: A young woman is with child, and she will bear a son, and will call him Immanuel.

New International Version Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

New Jerusalem Bible The Lord will give you a sign in any case: It is this: the young womanb is with child and will give birth to a son whom she will call Immanuel. {b. . . For 'young woman' Gk reads 'virgin', interpreted by Mt of Mary.}

New Living Translation All right then, the Lord himself will choose the sign, Look! The virgin* will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel--'God is with us.' {*Or young woman;.}

New Revised Standard Version Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman q is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. {qGk the virgin;}

Revised English Bible Because you do, the Lord of his own accord will give you a sign; it is this: A young woman is with child, and she will give birth to a son and call him Immanuel.

Revised Standard Version Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman i shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. {iOr, virgin;}

Today's English Version/Good News Bible Well then, the Lord himself will give you a sign: a young woman kwho is pregnant will have a son and will name him 'Immanuel.' {kYOUNG WOMAN: The Hebrew word here translated "young woman" is not the particular term for "virgin," but refers to any young woman of marriageable age. The use of "virgin" in Mt 1:23 reflects a Greek translation of the Old Testament, made some 500 years after Isaiah.;}


It should be noted that the word "'almah" is translated in the Septuagint as "parthenos" (translated as "virgin" in its normal sense; see Carmignac (329-330), Abel (398); Willis (12) makes no attempt to explain why the Septuagint translators then used "parthenos" here if they didn't understand it to mean "virgin".) in only two cases (Is. 7:14 and Gen. 24:43); whereas, "bethulah" is translated as "parthenos" in all but three cases: 1 Kings 1:2, Jer. 14:7, and Esther 2:2 (the Septuagint doesn't translate Est. 2:19). This fact would indicate that "parthenos"/"be'thulah" means a woman (exact age unknown -- to show that a young woman is being referred to the Hebrew would modify "bethulah" by the word "na'arah") who is a virgin --the following exceptions should be noted: Joel 1:8; Est. 2:17; Ezek. 23:3 (these texts will be dealt with below). One might note, as Davies and Allison (214) have, that in Gen. 24:16 the word "be'tulah" is qualified by the clause "no man had known her" which is unusual if "bethulah" strictly meant "virgin" (unless it is a "poetic repetition"--Wadsworth (167) points out that it is "commonplace in the Old Testament" to use "redundancy" "to give emphasis to an important point." Dodd (302) notes the verse but entirely skips the qualification! Willis (11), notes that Wenham makes an illegitimate attempt to extend the qualifier to "'almah" as well since it is used in verse 43.). Note that the qualifying phrase does not appear in 24:43 where the Hebrew uses the word "'almah" and that the Septuagint used "parthenos" in both cases--the use of "parthenos" in the Septuagint in Gen. 24:43 was, Vawter's (322) opinion "obviously predetermined by the btwlh; of v. 16." Now note that this idea doesn't govern the use of "parthenos" in Is. 7:14. For other verses that have to use a qualifying phrase with "bethulah" see Judges 21:12 ("... virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male ...") and Lev. 21:3 ("... a virgin, ..., which hath had no husband; ...") for other examples of qualifying clauses being added. It should also be noted that there are cases in classical literature where "parthenos" refers to females who are not virgins (see Dodd (302) who also refers the reader to Liddel and Scott, and Lattey (94); Ford (294) also supplies examples from undated sepulchral inscriptions. Roberts (503) mentions that this word is "regularly applied to temple prostitutes"; unfortunately, he supplies no details or sources.); just as in Is. 7:14 and Gen. 24:43 "parthenos"/"'almah" means a young woman who is a virgin, or, instead, "young virgin." This confluence of meanings would be the only reason why the Jewish Greek translations of the OT (Aquila, Symmachus and Theodotion) used "neanis" (young woman) instead of "parthenos" at Is. 7:14 (cf. J. Ziegler, Septuaginta xiv Isaias (1939): 147; Both Dodd (304) and Lippard note the change in wording without bothering to ask why these translations changed the wording.); otherwise there would have been no reason to change the wording. In contesting this changing of the word's Jerome argued that although, in Kamesar's words (page 63), "the term almah; itself does not mean virgin, it necessitates virginity ... it entails 'more than virginity'." Kamesar (71) notes that Jerome claimed that "the word almah; is used only of virgins in the Hebrew Bible." Jerome's testimony on this matter is important, as Wilson (315) points out, because he "studied Hebrew under the Jewish rabbis of his time (about A.D. 400)." Likewise, Machen points out that "as a matter of fact there is no place among the seven occurrences of 'almah in the Old Testament where the word is clearly used of a woman who was not a virgin." [J. G. Machen, The Virgin Birth of Christ, page 288; cited by Feinberg (256-7)] This simple fact seems to have escaped the attention of Robby Berry; he claims that the word "'almah" "could refer to a virgin, or not, depending on the context."

sorry Jeri there is nothing in the Hebrew scripture that talks about a divine man god messiah, and Isaiah isn't talking about a Messiah, no matter how much Christians try to twist Torah (who was given to the Jews)

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Absolutely correct, guno. Luke, especially, fictionalized his gospel to dovetail it in to past scripture's prophesies. Frankly, it is so flagrant that it is a little embarrassing.

Wrong. Luke did not fictionalize a thing! The virgin birth is fully acknowledged in the Gospel of Luke! Have you gone meshugenah? Have you not read these scriptures in Luke?

See Luke 1: 28

See Luke 1:47

See Luke 1: 28

See Ecclesiastes 7: 20, Romans 3:23, 6:23 and 1 John 1:18.

see Luke 1: 34 -38

See Luke 11: 27

See Luke 1: 42 - 44

See Luke 11: 28

see Luke 1: 46 - 48

The angel Gabriel announced to Mary she was highly favored ( note these other verses later calling her highly favored! And blessed among women! ) this referring to the virgin birth - Let me quote it for you right now!

It is written:

And it came to pass in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth. To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel came into her, and said, Hail, thou art highly favored, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salvation this should be. and the angel said unto her, Mary, thou hast found favor with God. And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever: and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1: 26,27,28, 29,30,31, 32, 33,34,35

fact check these hate sites you are visiting, Guno. They are doing you no favor. None whatsoever!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Guno?! Are you seriously trying to back peddle off the OP without so much as an acknowledgment you were proven wrong? Seriously? Do not do this, Guno! I just provided more than enough evidence on BOTH of your false claims - you need to man up and admit it! Your OP was based on faulty research! I am waiting.... - Jeri * I had typed that last post and scriptures out for you. The least you can do is acknowledge and say oh! I was wrong! Luke does indeed make full account of the Virgin Birth! Yes. Thank you. He does. I rest my case.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Vandal? I am waiting for you to come back here and retract your statement in light of the presented evidence from the Gospel of Luke.

Any time now...........

 

[BillyP]

The only way a woman can get pregnant back then and still be a virgin is to be doing anal and cum drips into her snatch. Is that what happened to Mary?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Just recently I read all 66 books of Isaiah in one night, Guno, and I can assure when your eyes are opened to see that Jesus is the Messiah? You'll see Him all through Isaiah! The entire book is about Him! It is all about Him!!!!!!!! Yes! It's true!

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Billy, let me give you a little background on me. I do not faint. It would probably save you some time to find some people from my history and they will tell you I outlasted all of them. Some I met by way of prison ministry and by outlast I mean the Lord converted them and when they got out? They were preaching to others. The Lesson? Don't keep walkin' round the bank unless you're ready to fall in. ( because eventually you will )

* the prisoners I did bible study for were a mixed group - they were all searching - like you, Billy - some thought they were saved once but they didn't live it- some experienced a great walk with the Holy Spirit after they were in prison and I recall one who God woke up at 4 a.m. one morning after my praying for him to have a prayer life that began at 4 a.m. You know what he wrote to me about that? He thought God was punishing him waking up that early! He said pray God never does that again! ha! Does God have a sense of humor or what? Oh my gosh.... Looks like you guys are down for the count tonight. So with that I'll bid you a good night.

 

[amrchaos]

I guess, after reading all that information Jeremiah posted, even if almah translated into "young woman" that, in itself, does not confer that she was not a virgin.

In fact, young woman, maiden and virgin does seem interchangeable and you will not lose meaning of the text.

I guess you need more proof that Mary was not a virgin than that, Guno.
Young women do tend to be virgins else they would be referred to as something different.

Such as wife, concubine, prostitute, whore--but almah does not translate, nor synonymous, to those terms, is it?

 

[Machaut]

Pagans just lapped up things like demigods, gods having intercourse with humans, virgins giving birth.

I'm not sure where these claims are coming from, as only one ("virgins giving birth") is present in the Bible. There is no occasion in either Testament of "gods having intercourse with humans," and no one is identified as a demigod. There is no possible way to conflate "physical manifestation of God" with "demigod"; if anything, the Christian perception of Jesus is closer to the Hindu concept of an avatar than to the pagan demigods. Additionally, the claims of the Bible containing "gods having intercourse with humans" and "virgins giving birth"--both presumably in reference to Jesus--are completely contradictory.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Guno,
I admit that, although I believe that a some of the New testament is fictionalized, I don't worry about it too much one way or the other. I see no convincing evidence that Jesus meant for his teachings to apply to anyone but Jews, In addition, the Christians co-opting the Old testament from the Jews, to me is downright silly. It is kind of like saying , "Well, we don't have an old testament of our own, so since Jesus was a Jew, we inherit it from him. And although Christ was a Jew, and never preached to non Jews, we are sure that he would have renounced it, given a choice between his religion while alive, and Christianity, which his disciples created after his death, if he were here today".

I don't THINK so!

To my mind, Christianity is nothing more than a spin-off of Jewish faith, which has nothing to do with me.

 

[amrchaos]

You know, the biggest problem I find with the Birth of Christ story is

Who is telling us this story?

It can't be first hand accounting of the Disciples--none of them meet Jesus until he is like 30.

So that seems to leave Mary or Joseph. Well, we can count Joseph out because he seems to disappear from the story when Jesus comes of age.

So is the accounting of the Virgin Birth the story of Mary? Is there a Gospel of Mary out there that we don't know about?

Come to think about it, almost the first third of the book of Matthew could not be first hand accounting of the disciples either, because it reference them and how he met/chose them after some part of that Gospel has been written.


Pretty weird stuff, huh? We do not know who were the witness for these events. But we can deduce easily that it was not the Disciples.