The Soviet Union & Iran: Then and Now

[Dot Com]

No, she means that Reagan was super human and put out all the fires in the world...not....

Please try to read more carefully, and not bring up your fantasies and bête noire, Ronaldus Maximus.....

View attachment 48760

This OP is specifically about the catastrophes caused by Franklin Roosevelt, and the soon-to-be catastrophes about to be caused by this Democrat President.


More to come....stay tuned.

Just because you can over exert yourself by cut-n-paste, does not mean you have a brain...

^ that OP

PoliticalSpice will be PoliticalSpice

 

[Dot Com]

Here we go again. Another FDR/Stalin rant.

PoliticalSpice's specialty taking the wrong side, again & again & again & again......

 

[PoliticalChic]

Perhaps you might consider actually posting about a subject you have more knowledge than simply imbibing Liberal bumper-stickers.

Perhaps?

Eh, I thought we were assuming that FDR didn't do anything against the evil Germans.

Do you know how close Hitler came to defeating Russia? Probably not or else you wouldn't be posting this revisionist nonsense of armchair generals.

I still don't see what this has to do with Obama and Iran though

"Do you know how close Hitler came to defeating Russia?"

OMG.

What a maroon.


Unlike the prior world war,Stalin and the Russians were ready and able....The Germans, less so.


"The Soviets appeared to have carefully observed and analyzed the German Blitzkrieg successes of 1939 and 1940 and to havelearned useful lessons.They must have noticed that in May 1940 the French had massed their forces right at the border as well as in Belgium, thus making it possible for the German war machine to encircle them in a major Kesselschlacht. (British troops were also caught in this encirclement, but managed to escape via Dunkirk.)

The Soviets did leave some troops at the border, of course, and these troops predictably suffered the Soviet Union’s major losses during the opening stages of Barbarossa.But – contrary to what is claimed by historians such as Richard Overy[16] – the bulk of the Red Army was held back in the rear, avoiding entrapment.It was this “defence in depth” that frustrated the German ambition to destroy the Red Army in its entirety.

As Marshal Zhukov was to write in his memoirs, “the Soviet Union would have been smashed if we had organized all our forces at the border.


.. when Barbarossa started on June 22,the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....

The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit very slowly, and by mid-November some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But thetroops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.
Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
by Jacques Pauwels



By attacking in June, Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.
He didn't.

Stalin was ready, and had his puppet in the White House to back his every move.

Pick up a book once in a while.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

Pick up a book once in a while.

Why don't you pick up a brain instead

 

[mikegriffith1]

Indeed, as even some "mainstream" historians are admitting, FDR saved the Soviet Union by provoking Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. Japan wanted a peace deal with the U.S. and wanted to take on the hard-pressed Soviets, but FDR refused Japan's very reasonable offers and instead imposed draconian sanctions on Japan that left Japan no choice but to attack or surrender.

When Soviet spies discovered the shift in Japan's target, they duly reported this to Stalin, and this enabled Stalin to pull his huge Siberian army from the east and move it to the western theater to fight the Germans and save Moscow from collapse.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Pick up a book once in a while.

Why don't you pick up a brain instead

I've destroyed every one of your uneducated posts....and this is your response.

You must be a reliable Democrat voter, huh?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Indeed, as even some "mainstream" historians are admitting, FDR saved the Soviet Union by provoking Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. Japan wanted a peace deal with the U.S. and wanted to take on the hard-pressed Soviets, but FDR refused Japan's very reasonable offers and instead imposed draconian sanctions on Japan that left Japan no choice but to attack or surrender.

When Soviet spies discovered the shift in Japan's target, they duly reported this to Stalin, and this enabled Stalin to pull his huge Siberian army from the east and move it to the western theater to fight the Germans and save Moscow from collapse.

Now, hold on Mikey...

"FDR saved the Soviet Union by provoking Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor."

Not so.

Stalin saved the Soviet Union by manipulating the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor.

1. Stalin has interests in the Far East for the same reasons as he had in Europe......remember the definition of communism......internationalsocialism.
It has always been a world-wide attack.



"...Stalin faced a dilemma - he wanted to avoid atwo-front war at almost any cost yet the Soviet leader also wanted to extract gains in the Far East as well as Europe."Soviet Japanese War 1945 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Stalin wanted,at the least, to be sure that Japan did not attack Russia in the East....


2. Machiavelli was a piker compared to Joseph Stalin.
Soviet plans for world domination go back to the early years of the 20th century, but when Stalin took over in 1922, he was able to consolidate total power after Lenin's death in 1924.
He had active espionage cells in nations throughout the world.Including Japan.

After Japan's conquest of Manchuria in 1931–32, Moscow feared that Japanese aggression might turn toward the Soviet Far East. "
The Spy Who Saved the Soviets



3.Richard Sorge was Stalin's master spy in Japan...."a half-Russian, half-German Soviet spy... so successfully ingratiated himself with the German diplomatic community in Japan that he was allowed to work out of the German embassy, giving him access to confidential files. At the same time, he also befriended Japanese government officials, attempting to convince them not to go to war with the Soviet Union."
Soviet master spy is hanged by the Japanese - Nov 07 1944 - HISTORY.com


a. " Amongst the myriad twists and turns and subplots of World War II wasthe amazing efficiency with which Soviet agents in the U.S., Japan, and elsewhere around the globe coordinated to steer the imperial Japanese government away from an attack on the Soviet Union – a multi-year effort that resulted in the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.....


...Richard Sorge was arrested in Tokyo in 1941 by the Japanese police, he had just informed Soviet dictator Josef Stalin that Japan was planning to attack Pearl Harbor. Thus was the culmination ofa years-long operation directed by the Soviet Union wherein the ultimate weapon wasinfluence(there's that word again).


The Sorge spy ring achieved success in steering Japan away from its previously considered plan to attack the Soviet Union, andinstead to turn its fire on another target which turned out to be the United States."
The role of Soviet agents in the Pearl Harbor attack



Why would Stalin have wished this outcome?

a. Japan would not attack the Soviet Union

b. By attacking the United States, it would ensure that Roosevelt would ally with Stalin


4. Stalin's agents in Washington, D.C. and in Tokyo, made certain that his plans met with success.....that plan was the attack on Pearl Harbor.

a. "From both Tokyo and Washington,KGB cells'worked in mid-1941 to avert a Japanese invasion of the Soviet Union..."
"Sacred Secrets: How Soviet Intelligence Operations Changed American History," by Leona Schecter and Jerrold Schecter


b. "Soviet military intelligence officer,Richard Sorge, directed the espionage network in Tokyo,which included members of the Institute of Pacific Relations,managed to push the Japanese to strike, not north into the Soviet Union, but atAmerican interests."
"BlacklistedBy History," Stanton Evans, p. 390-392
[The IPC was rife with Soviet agents, such as Owen Lattimore.]


c. In Washington, agent Lauchlin Currie, White House economic adviser to President Franklin Roosevelt, worked at undermining any rapprochement between the US and Japan,and influenced the US to provoke the Japanese.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

I've destroyed every one of your uneducated posts....and this is your response.

Sorry, but there's no use in arguing with someone who doesn't know what she's talking about

You must be a reliable Democrat voter, huh?

No matter how many times I tell you that I'm a reliable socialist, not a liberal, fascist, nazi, muslim or whatever..you're still in denial. I guess it just doesn't fit in your black and white worldview.

 

[Moonglow]

Stalin was not ready, and after the purge of his general he could not even defeat Finland without heavy loses and slow progress. Hitler's army made great gains in territory and Hitler helped Stalin out by diverting and changing his plans..The battle of Stalingrad was the biggest blunder as the battle for a city was not in the pay book for blitzkrieg style of war...

 

[Moonglow]

I've destroyed every one of your uneducated posts....and this is your response.

Sorry, but there's no use in arguing with someone who doesn't know what she's talking about

You must be a reliable Democrat voter, huh?

No matter how many times I tell you that I'm a reliable socialist, not a liberal, fascist, nazi, muslim or whatever..you're still in denial. I guess it just doesn't fit in your black and white worldview.

And what is worse, she regurgitates this spam on a weekly basis, which means she can only handle one subject...

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. The foreign policy blunders and miscalculations of Franklin Roosevelt's with respect to the Soviet Union are mirrored in Barack Obama's, with respect to Iran.
And the amazing similarity of the two bear witness to Mark Twain's famous quip about history:
'Historydoesn't repeat itself, but it doesrhyme.'


A more ominous warning, from the American philosopher Santayana, also applies:
'Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'


a. The consequence of Roosevelt's failures include Red China, the Korean War, and the Cold War.
The handwriting is already on the wall from Obama's Iran treaty.

Mistakes based on a lack of understanding human nature, and of the existence of evil itself.
The Founder's used checks and balances to resist both...Roosevelt had none. cowed the Supreme Court, and disregarded the Constitution.
As a result, he changed the course of history....and not for he better.




2. The communist Soviet Union began based on Karl Marx's idea that international communism/socialism and domination of the world was the nonnegotiable goal.
Although the Russians signed agreements with Roosevelt agreeing to give up this dream, it was well known that this was simply a lie so that Roosevlet could offer this pap to the public.


3."Moreover, Roosevelt’s indulgence of Stalin has been noted and judged by too many close observers to be questioned as fact. Averell Harriman-close friend, wartime adviser, and envoy-writes: “He was determined, by establishing a close relationship with Stalin in wartime, to build confidence among the Kremlin leaders that Russia, now an acknowledged power, could trust the West.. . . Churchill had a more pragmatic attitude. . He turned pessimistic about the future earlier than Roosevelt and he foresaw greater difficulties at the end of the war.”’

So, it must be added,’ did Harriman himself.

George Kennan’s view of Roosevelt’s performance during the war is considerably harsher than Harriman’s. After commenting bitterly on the “inexcusable body of ignorance about the Russian Communist movement, about the history of its diplomacy, about what had happened in the purges, and about what had been going on in Poland and the Baltic States,” Kennan turns more directly to FDR alone:

I also have in mind FDRs evident conviction that Stalin, while perhaps a somewhat difficult customer, was only, after all, a person like any other person; that the reason we hadn’t been able to get along with him in the past was that we had never really had anyone with the proper personality and the proper qualities of sympathy and imagination to deal with him, that he had been snubbed all along by the arrogant conservatives of the Western capitals; and that if only he could be exposed to the persuasive charms of someone like FDR himself, ideological preconceptions would melt and Russia’s cooperation with the West could be easily arranged.

For these assumptions there were no grounds whatsover; and they were of a puerility that was unworthy of a statesman of FDRs stature."
http://www.mmisi.org/ma/30_02/nisbet.pdf


Get that???

Kennan was calling Roosevelt a fool!!!


The very same analysis applies to Obama.
Obama should read Santayana.

Gee, I thought we won World War II.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I've destroyed every one of your uneducated posts....and this is your response.

Sorry, but there's no use in arguing with someone who doesn't know what she's talking about

You must be a reliable Democrat voter, huh?

No matter how many times I tell you that I'm a reliable socialist, not a liberal, fascist, nazi, muslim or whatever..you're still in denial. I guess it just doesn't fit in your black and white worldview.

Do you subscribe to the totalitarian view "the central theme is still an all-encompassing state that centralizes power to perfect human nature by controlling every aspect of life., albeit at the loss of what had hitherfore been accepted as ‘inalienable human rights.’"
(Goldberg)


Sure you do.

Therefore any claim of that you are a 'socialist' rather than a Liberal, fascist, Nazi, communist, etc., is simply a distinction without a difference.


Face the truth.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. The foreign policy blunders and miscalculations of Franklin Roosevelt's with respect to the Soviet Union are mirrored in Barack Obama's, with respect to Iran.
And the amazing similarity of the two bear witness to Mark Twain's famous quip about history:
'Historydoesn't repeat itself, but it doesrhyme.'


A more ominous warning, from the American philosopher Santayana, also applies:
'Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'


a. The consequence of Roosevelt's failures include Red China, the Korean War, and the Cold War.
The handwriting is already on the wall from Obama's Iran treaty.

Mistakes based on a lack of understanding human nature, and of the existence of evil itself.
The Founder's used checks and balances to resist both...Roosevelt had none. cowed the Supreme Court, and disregarded the Constitution.
As a result, he changed the course of history....and not for he better.




2. The communist Soviet Union began based on Karl Marx's idea that international communism/socialism and domination of the world was the nonnegotiable goal.
Although the Russians signed agreements with Roosevelt agreeing to give up this dream, it was well known that this was simply a lie so that Roosevlet could offer this pap to the public.


3."Moreover, Roosevelt’s indulgence of Stalin has been noted and judged by too many close observers to be questioned as fact. Averell Harriman-close friend, wartime adviser, and envoy-writes: “He was determined, by establishing a close relationship with Stalin in wartime, to build confidence among the Kremlin leaders that Russia, now an acknowledged power, could trust the West.. . . Churchill had a more pragmatic attitude. . He turned pessimistic about the future earlier than Roosevelt and he foresaw greater difficulties at the end of the war.”’

So, it must be added,’ did Harriman himself.

George Kennan’s view of Roosevelt’s performance during the war is considerably harsher than Harriman’s. After commenting bitterly on the “inexcusable body of ignorance about the Russian Communist movement, about the history of its diplomacy, about what had happened in the purges, and about what had been going on in Poland and the Baltic States,” Kennan turns more directly to FDR alone:

I also have in mind FDRs evident conviction that Stalin, while perhaps a somewhat difficult customer, was only, after all, a person like any other person; that the reason we hadn’t been able to get along with him in the past was that we had never really had anyone with the proper personality and the proper qualities of sympathy and imagination to deal with him, that he had been snubbed all along by the arrogant conservatives of the Western capitals; and that if only he could be exposed to the persuasive charms of someone like FDR himself, ideological preconceptions would melt and Russia’s cooperation with the West could be easily arranged.

For these assumptions there were no grounds whatsover; and they were of a puerility that was unworthy of a statesman of FDRs stature."
http://www.mmisi.org/ma/30_02/nisbet.pdf


Get that???

Kennan was calling Roosevelt a fool!!!


The very same analysis applies to Obama.
Obama should read Santayana.

Stalin 'planned to send a million troops to stop Hitler if Britain and France agreed pact'
Stalin was 'prepared to move more than a million Soviet troops to the German border to deter Hitler's aggression just before the Second World War'


By Nick Holdsworth in Moscow

5:16PM BST 18 Oct 2008


Papers which were kept secret for almost 70 years show that the Soviet Union proposed sending a powerful military force in an effort to entice Britain and France into an anti-Nazi alliance.

Such an agreement could have changed the course of 20th century history, preventing Hitler's pact with Stalin which gave him free rein to go to war with Germany's other neighbours.

The offer of a military force to help contain Hitler was made by a senior Soviet military delegation at a Kremlin meeting with senior British and French officers, two weeks before war broke out in 1939.

The new documents, copies of which have been seen by The Sunday Telegraph, show the vast numbers of infantry, artillery and airborne forces which Stalin's generals said could be dispatched, if Polish objections to the Red Army crossing its territory could first be overcome.

But the British and French side - briefed by their governments to talk, but not authorised to commit to binding deals - did not respond to the Soviet offer, made on August 15, 1939. Instead, Stalin turned to Germany, signing the notorious non-aggression treaty with Hitler barely a week later.

Stalin 'planned to send a million troops to stop Hitler if Britain and France agreed pact'

 

[Jantje_Smit]

Stalin saved the Soviet Union by manipulating the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor...

Just when I thought you couldn't possibly get any more delusional....

 

[NYcarbineer]

I've destroyed every one of your uneducated posts....and this is your response.

Sorry, but there's no use in arguing with someone who doesn't know what she's talking about

You must be a reliable Democrat voter, huh?

No matter how many times I tell you that I'm a reliable socialist, not a liberal, fascist, nazi, muslim or whatever..you're still in denial. I guess it just doesn't fit in your black and white worldview.

Do you subscribe to the totalitarian view "the central theme is still an all-encompassing state that centralizes power to perfect human nature by controlling every aspect of life., albeit at the loss of what had hitherfore been accepted as ‘inalienable human rights.’"
(Goldberg)


Sure you do.

Therefore any claim of that you are a 'socialist' rather than a Liberal, fascist, Nazi, communist, etc., is simply a distinction without a difference.


Face the truth.

Namecalling is a sign you've lost the argument.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I've destroyed every one of your uneducated posts....and this is your response.

Sorry, but there's no use in arguing with someone who doesn't know what she's talking about

You must be a reliable Democrat voter, huh?

No matter how many times I tell you that I'm a reliable socialist, not a liberal, fascist, nazi, muslim or whatever..you're still in denial. I guess it just doesn't fit in your black and white worldview.

And what is worse, she regurgitates this spam on a weekly basis, which means she can only handle one subject...

If you cannot find any other thread in which the thesis has been the similarities between FDR's Soviet policies and Obama's Iran policies, then you are either a fool or a liar.



Or both.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. The foreign policy blunders and miscalculations of Franklin Roosevelt's with respect to the Soviet Union are mirrored in Barack Obama's, with respect to Iran.
And the amazing similarity of the two bear witness to Mark Twain's famous quip about history:
'Historydoesn't repeat itself, but it doesrhyme.'


A more ominous warning, from the American philosopher Santayana, also applies:
'Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'


a. The consequence of Roosevelt's failures include Red China, the Korean War, and the Cold War.
The handwriting is already on the wall from Obama's Iran treaty.

Mistakes based on a lack of understanding human nature, and of the existence of evil itself.
The Founder's used checks and balances to resist both...Roosevelt had none. cowed the Supreme Court, and disregarded the Constitution.
As a result, he changed the course of history....and not for he better.




2. The communist Soviet Union began based on Karl Marx's idea that international communism/socialism and domination of the world was the nonnegotiable goal.
Although the Russians signed agreements with Roosevelt agreeing to give up this dream, it was well known that this was simply a lie so that Roosevlet could offer this pap to the public.


3."Moreover, Roosevelt’s indulgence of Stalin has been noted and judged by too many close observers to be questioned as fact. Averell Harriman-close friend, wartime adviser, and envoy-writes: “He was determined, by establishing a close relationship with Stalin in wartime, to build confidence among the Kremlin leaders that Russia, now an acknowledged power, could trust the West.. . . Churchill had a more pragmatic attitude. . He turned pessimistic about the future earlier than Roosevelt and he foresaw greater difficulties at the end of the war.”’

So, it must be added,’ did Harriman himself.

George Kennan’s view of Roosevelt’s performance during the war is considerably harsher than Harriman’s. After commenting bitterly on the “inexcusable body of ignorance about the Russian Communist movement, about the history of its diplomacy, about what had happened in the purges, and about what had been going on in Poland and the Baltic States,” Kennan turns more directly to FDR alone:

I also have in mind FDRs evident conviction that Stalin, while perhaps a somewhat difficult customer, was only, after all, a person like any other person; that the reason we hadn’t been able to get along with him in the past was that we had never really had anyone with the proper personality and the proper qualities of sympathy and imagination to deal with him, that he had been snubbed all along by the arrogant conservatives of the Western capitals; and that if only he could be exposed to the persuasive charms of someone like FDR himself, ideological preconceptions would melt and Russia’s cooperation with the West could be easily arranged.

For these assumptions there were no grounds whatsover; and they were of a puerility that was unworthy of a statesman of FDRs stature."
http://www.mmisi.org/ma/30_02/nisbet.pdf


Get that???

Kennan was calling Roosevelt a fool!!!


The very same analysis applies to Obama.
Obama should read Santayana.

Gee, I thought we won World War II.

Joseph Stalin won WWII....that's why the Democrat Party stands for the same things the communist party (CPUSA) stood for before the war.

You're just not smart enough to realize it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Stalin saved the Soviet Union by manipulating the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor...

Just when I thought you couldn't possibly get any more delusional....

You've been here long enough now. No more thinking that the RWnuts around here can't get any worse than they've already demonstrated.

No record level of stupidity has ever been set that cannot be broken by some rightwinger, at any moment.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I've destroyed every one of your uneducated posts....and this is your response.

Sorry, but there's no use in arguing with someone who doesn't know what she's talking about

You must be a reliable Democrat voter, huh?

No matter how many times I tell you that I'm a reliable socialist, not a liberal, fascist, nazi, muslim or whatever..you're still in denial. I guess it just doesn't fit in your black and white worldview.

"Sorry, but there's no use in arguing with someone who doesn't know what she's talking about."

Don't be silly.....I do it all the time.

You're a case in point.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I've destroyed every one of your uneducated posts....and this is your response.

Sorry, but there's no use in arguing with someone who doesn't know what she's talking about

You must be a reliable Democrat voter, huh?

No matter how many times I tell you that I'm a reliable socialist, not a liberal, fascist, nazi, muslim or whatever..you're still in denial. I guess it just doesn't fit in your black and white worldview.

And what is worse, she regurgitates this spam on a weekly basis, which means she can only handle one subject...

If you cannot find any other thread in which the thesis has been the similarities between FDR's Soviet policies and Obama's Iran policies, then you are either a fool or a liar.



Or both.

This is your FDR should have declared war on the Soviet Union in 1945 rant.

You need to sit down with a historian and a therapist to have it explained to you how insane you are.