The Reverend Wright

[Larkinn]

Equality by law DOES mean something as far as opportunities go. It means one cannot be discriminated against by law when pursuing those opportunities.

No, it means one cannot be legally discriminated against. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen all the fucking time, and its next to impossible to prove unless the racist is just really really stupid.

Who has a 400 year late start? That's crap. Blacks born in the US today have the same "start" as anyone else. To use that as an excuse is what's ludicrous. And that's all it is. An excuse.

You really think income doesn't effect peoples opportunities in the US?

Wright and Malcom X both are and were respectively, racist. They promote their race exclusively, and paint a woebegone, downtrodden picture of how rough blacks have it and how they're getting screwed by "the Man."

And how is that racist exactly?

I can understand Malcom X doing it. He is from a period in time when there was legal discrimination. Wright is just perpetuating racial devisiveness with his inflammatory propaganda.

Ah because once its illegal it just all goes away, right? BTW, Wright is a child of the '60s as well.

 

[AllieBaba]

They have the same start in that they have access theoretically to all that the children of established families do.

But the fact is, the further you are (generation wise) from abject poverty, the better opportunities your children will have, and the better set up they are to succeed.

For example, a child who is blessed with two sets of grandparents who attended college, parents who attended college and were able to provide $$ for extra-curricular activities, the nice little extras that make school a more successful and less stressful venture, and who are able to attend school functions and otherwise arrange their work schedules to better serve their children...THAT child has a better chance of making it than the kid who has a single parent who works as a bartender or in a mill, who cannot adjust their hours, who gets laid off every now and then, whose own parents are not situated well financially, and where there is no money or time to do the little things that really help establish kids as confident and self-sufficient.

Kids who suffer poverty start out at a disadvantage, and the further removed they are from it the better their chance of success. THat's all I'm saying. And when you have an influx of poverty-stricken immigrants, freed slaves, whatever, it ALWAYS takes a few generations for that community to integrate fully and to "catch up". The first generation is obsessed with not starving or being killed by hostile bigots. The second generation is (usually) obsessed with maintaining steady employment. The THIRD generation is usually the generation that starts hitting the colleges and the FOURTH generation is the generation that finally actually feels they belong, have a little bit of background stability and start reaching the pinnacle of society.

THere are always exceptions and people who do it sooner. But that's the general way it works.

 

[SingingMongoose]

Let's take a second glance at McCain's pastors.

[McCain] has not claimed that Hagee has been a spiritual advisor and mentor

I'm not so sure about that, but he certainly has called the Reverend Rod Parsley a "spiritual adviser." Rod Parsley, of course, has uttered gems like this: "I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore."

Well, look at that. Obama has one pastor in the closet; McCain has two.

For my money, I don't really care about either of them. It's meaningless crap, a shiny scandal (and...counter-scandal?) to dangle in front of the public by means of what can only be called political tabloids.

And also, let's clear the air about Malcolm X. He expressed a number of anti-white racist views only prior to his pilgrimmage, when he was part of the Nation of Islam (which, incidentally, had a completely fabricated "interpretation" of Islam). The Malcolm X of his later days had very different views, and wasn't racist.

 

[doeton]

color me flabbergasted.

 

[Ravi]

Sometimes Allie seems almost sane.

 

[AllieBaba]

Allie's always sane and you should always listen to her because she's not just talking out of her hat.

THough she certainly makes big glaring mistakes every once in a while.

 

[Annie]

Allie's always sane and you should always listen to her because she's not just talking out of her hat.

THough she certainly makes big glaring mistakes every once in a while.

Not everyone can be perfect, like moi!

 

[AllieBaba]

And it makes me so sad......

 

[BrianH]

I think you may be lacking some crucial information. My favorite part of this post is that you denounce someone for not posting any "proof," then go on to your own uninformed and blabbering statements, which are completely unsupported as well.

I wont get into excruciating detail here, but the mere fact that African-Americans are protected by the LAW, doesn't mean anything as far as actual opportunities. I am not an apologist and do not suggest that blacks have no opportunities, I'm not even particularly fond of Affirmative Action; it's true that with enough dedication and education and focus, ANYONE can succeed in America today. However, blacks have a 400 year late start, and to suggest that this should not be a factor in considering their current opportunities is ludicrous and rather ignorant of history. SEPARATE BUT EQUAL was a LAW too, care to recall how that worked out for blacks in America?

Wright is not racist. Malcolm X is not racist. They merely understand the plight and suppression of the ethnic group they belong to, and are more militant and forceful about equality. If that offends you, start a church yourself. It is America after all, the land of opportunity.

Well let's disect my statements. I claimed that blacks had the same opportunities as whites. The law applies equally to all races, which means there is nothing or no one that can legally prohibit or hinder the black population from doing what they want, or pursuing opportunities. The Law in itself is proof, support for my claim.

I'm not sure why you think my post is unsupported. Now if I had said, " Rev. Wright wants to kill all of the white people," then you could say something and I would need to provide proof of that.

You're argument is weak, so the black boy born yesterday has a 400 year late start?? LOL. The little black boy born yesterday has the same opportunities as the little white boy born yesterday. I garauntee you if they both attend public school, and seize the opportunity of an education and actually apply themselves, both will have the opportunity to go to college. If they seize the opportunity at college, then they will both have the opportunity to get a good job that pays. You're "400 year late state is quite a theory in itself."


As far as Separate Equal, you're right, that law was rediculous. However, it's since been overturned. How about you find a law in the books right now that is directly designed to keep the blacks down. Food Stamps? Drug Raids? Hip Hop? There is no law on the books that segregate or discriminate against blacks. The kid born yesterday knows nothing about Separate and Equal, white or black.

 

[Ravi]

Allie's always sane and you should always listen to her because she's not just talking out of her hat.

THough she certainly makes big glaring mistakes every once in a while.

lol! I think you look sane every once in awhile, not the reverse.

 

[BrianH]

No, it means one cannot be legally discriminated against. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen all the fucking time, and its next to impossible to prove unless the racist is just really really stupid.



You really think income doesn't effect peoples opportunities in the US?



And how is that racist exactly?



Ah because once its illegal it just all goes away, right? BTW, Wright is a child of the '60s as well.

Holmes, income doesn't effect people's opportunties in the U.S. THere are laws in place (at the Federal level) to give low income families all the support they need. I list some....Welfare, FAFSA, Affirmitive Action was one, Free Lunch (at state level), etc....

The FAFASA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) is designed to give federal grants and college assistance to all low income families. I'm white, my mom was a single mom with three kids, two of which were in college. She made 19,000 a year. That's lower than the poverty level. Do you think I paid for my college out of pocket??? (Almost) I almost had to pay for my entire college from working 50 hours a week while going to school full time. I did get some grants at the university level. One thing I did notice though, was that my sister, (a girl) got more financial aid than I did. And I did notice many black students (that did attend college) had alot of financial aid being granted to them.

Income may make life a littler harder, but it does not affect one's decisions to persue education. Rather, it's lifestyle and values.

About Malcom X and Wright. I can see why malcome x was, he was experiencing injustice at the federal level. Now WRight, and others like him (Jackson, Quannel X, Sharpton) do you see them come out of their holes when a black man kills a white man??? I thought they were supposed to advocate the rights of all people. They only come out of their rooms when a group of detectives (two of which are white) shoot a black man (like Bell--had been arrested twice on drug charges and one for illegal firearm possession).

The only racists are the ones who keep bringing it up as if it's a big problem, but only showing up for one race.

 

[Annie]

Holmes, income doesn't effect people's opportunties in the U.S. THere are laws in place (at the Federal level) to give low income families all the support they need. I list some....Welfare, FAFSA, Affirmitive Action was one, Free Lunch (at state level), etc....

The FAFASA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) is designed to give federal grants and college assistance to all low income families. I'm white, my mom was a single mom with three kids, two of which were in college. She made 19,000 a year. That's lower than the poverty level. Do you think I paid for my college out of pocket??? (Almost) I almost had to pay for my entire college from working 50 hours a week while going to school full time. I did get some grants at the university level. One thing I did notice though, was that my sister, (a girl) got more financial aid than I did. And I did notice many black students (that did attend college) had alot of financial aid being granted to them.

Income may make life a littler harder, but it does not affect one's decisions to persue education. Rather, it's lifestyle and values.

About Malcom X and Wright. I can see why malcome x was, he was experiencing injustice at the federal level. Now WRight, and others like him (Jackson, Quannel X, Sharpton) do you see them come out of their holes when a black man kills a white man??? I thought they were supposed to advocate the rights of all people. They only come out of their rooms when a group of detectives (two of which are white) shoot a black man (like Bell--had been arrested twice on drug charges and one for illegal firearm possession).

The only racists are the ones who keep bringing it up as if it's a big problem, but only showing up for one race.

First off the acronym if FAFSA. I've pretty much been in the position of your mom, though my income was higher, slightly. Then again, I still have 2 in college, for 2 more semesters. I've not noticed any difference in FAFSA results of 'family contributions' between my sons and daughter, all were or are at state universities. I would expect differences between state and private institutions, is that what you are getting at?

As for Wright, Macolm X and those ascribing to permanent victim status, my initial take is sadness. How anyone that went to these meetings/services, could come out with any hope is beyond my powers to comprehend.

The system is stacked against you, you haven't a chance, they'll screw you at every turn, if you manage to succeed, your kids will be screwed. Michelle exemplifies this message, her hope is that with Barack at the helm, it will change. In the mean time, she'll pull down over 300k per year, bitching the whole time.

 

[BrianH]

First off the acronym if FAFSA. I've pretty much been in the position of your mom, though my income was higher, slightly. Then again, I still have 2 in college, for 2 more semesters. I've not noticed any difference in FAFSA results of 'family contributions' between my sons and daughter, all were or are at state universities. I would expect differences between state and private institutions, is that what you are getting at?

As for Wright, Macolm X and those ascribing to permanent victim status, my initial take is sadness. How anyone that went to these meetings/services, could come out with any hope is beyond my powers to comprehend.

The system is stacked against you, you haven't a chance, they'll screw you at every turn, if you manage to succeed, your kids will be screwed. Michelle exemplifies this message, her hope is that with Barack at the helm, it will change. In the mean time, she'll pull down over 300k per year, bitching the whole time.

I was about to correct you on FAFSA (I was going to tell you I know that already) however, I just realized the typo I made. Thanks for the correction. If you'll notice, when I wrote it out it was right, I just wrote the acronym wrong.

Anyway, I wasn't talking about privat institutions, I went to junior college first and then transferred to a University. I've noticed a big difference in the grant money/financial aid my sister has gotten, and the financial aid I recieved. What happened to me, is my mom was claiming me on her taxes, even though I lived away from home (on my own), without any contributions. So I told her the next year, that I was going to claim myself, since I was living on my own and supporting myself. I worked full time at minimum wage and only made about 12,000 a year. So when I applied for FAFSA, they added my income to my mother's income (even though I didn't live with her). Our two incomes added together put us well above the poverty level. They told me that they would continue to add me to my mother's income until I was 24. I didn't receive any financial aid during my first two years in junior college. I did start to recieve a little bit after my sister started going to school, but she got more. (I'm not saying it's always like this, but this was my experience.) My uncle had the same experience when he went. My cousin, who came from a significantly wealthier family (was a woman) received all kinds of grant money when she went back to school. My uncle was 19 living at home with my grandmother--who was well under the poverty level (always had been). He couldn't get any financial aid even though he applied for federal aid. There's something lurking in the dark about it. They say they don't discriminate against race, gender, etc....but I think they're full of it. IMO.

 

[Annie]

I was about to correct you on FAFSA (I was going to tell you I know that already) however, I just realized the typo I made. Thanks for the correction. If you'll notice, when I wrote it out it was right, I just wrote the acronym wrong.

Anyway, I wasn't talking about privat institutions, I went to junior college first and then transferred to a University. I've noticed a big difference in the grant money/financial aid my sister has gotten, and the financial aid I recieved. What happened to me, is my mom was claiming me on her taxes, even though I lived away from home (on my own), without any contributions. So I told her the next year, that I was going to claim myself, since I was living on my own and supporting myself. I worked full time at minimum wage and only made about 12,000 a year. So when I applied for FAFSA, they added my income to my mother's income (even though I didn't live with her). Our two incomes added together put us well above the poverty level. They told me that they would continue to add me to my mother's income until I was 24. I didn't receive any financial aid during my first two years in junior college. I did start to recieve a little bit after my sister started going to school, but she got more. (I'm not saying it's always like this, but this was my experience.) My uncle had the same experience when he went. My cousin, who came from a significantly wealthier family (was a woman) received all kinds of grant money when she went back to school. My uncle was 19 living at home with my grandmother--who was well under the poverty level (always had been). He couldn't get any financial aid even though he applied for federal aid. There's something lurking in the dark about it. They say they don't discriminate against race, gender, etc....but I think they're full of it. IMO.

I think you have to be 'on your own' for 3-5 years, something like that. It's the same if you move to another state, but your parents keep the prime residency in your home state, you won't get 'in state' tuition.

 

[SingingMongoose]

How anyone that went to these meetings/services, could come out with any hope is beyond my powers to comprehend.

Hope has absolutely nothing to do with truth.

 

[Annie]

Hope has absolutely nothing to do with truth.

The truth is that many more blacks than Obama have made it to the upper and middle classes. Yet, there is Rev. Wright and others, telling their congregations they are victims and living in a country where all is rigged against them, regardless of their own efforts. This from a solid middle class, University of Chicago educated, living in a multi-million dollar home, preacher.

For any regular income black person hearing this message, why try further? It's all stacked against you? Hope and truth go hand in hand. It depends on whether or not the messenger is hoping to strip one of hope. Reminds me of Michelle, of the $300k plus job, telling the audience to take 'service jobs' and not get caught up in the push for money. Give me a break.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Back to the initial thread content. McCain is somehow different from Obama in this religious thing?

Hagee's support for McCain has drawn cries of outrage from some Catholic leaders who have called on McCain to reject Hagee's endorsement. The likely Republican nominee has said he does not agree with some of Hagee's past comments, but did not reject his support.[/QUOTE]

I believe Obama has at least rejected Wright's endorsement.

McCain is somehow straying from his straight and narrow all honesty approach.

 

[Alpha1]

Back to the initial thread content. McCain is somehow different from Obama in this religious thing?

Hagee's support for McCain has drawn cries of outrage from some Catholic leaders who have called on McCain to reject Hagee's endorsement. The likely Republican nominee has said he does not agree with some of Hagee's past comments, but did not reject his support.[/QUOTE]

I believe Obama has at least rejected Wright's endorsement.

McCain is somehow straying from his straight and narrow all honesty approach.

Obama sat and listened along with his wife and family to this hate monger, anti-American nut for 20 years....does that fact sink into you numbskull?
To reject This paster now is obviously an expedient lie...Obama must we are all as stupid as you to expect us to by this 'rejection' now...
after Obama first statements about Wright a few weeks ago....

I don't give a shot who sees fit to endorse McCain or even Obama for that matter.....this shouldn't be about who endorses the candidates...it should be about the actions of the candidates themselves...
If Obama was attending some other Church and Wright endorsed him I'd say so what....let the nitwit endorse whoever he wants to....an endorsement from someone has nothing to do with the candidate....

Sitting in a mans Church for 20 years is a different story altogether...

 

[Yurt]

Back to the initial thread content. McCain is somehow different from Obama in this religious thing?

Hagee's support for McCain has drawn cries of outrage from some Catholic leaders who have called on McCain to reject Hagee's endorsement. The likely Republican nominee has said he does not agree with some of Hagee's past comments, but did not reject his support.[/QUOTE]

I believe Obama has at least rejected Wright's endorsement.

McCain is somehow straying from his straight and narrow all honesty approach.

actually, he said he can no more disown wright than one can disown family

 

[Larkinn]

Well let's disect my statements. I claimed that blacks had the same opportunities as whites. The law applies equally to all races, which means there is nothing or no one that can legally prohibit or hinder the black population from doing what they want, or pursuing opportunities. The Law in itself is proof, support for my claim.

No, its not. People break the law all the time. Go onto a highway and see how well the whole "the law is x, everyone there follows x" works with speed limits.

You're argument is weak, so the black boy born yesterday has a 400 year late start?? LOL. The little black boy born yesterday has the same opportunities as the little white boy born yesterday.

This is naive. There IS racism in this country, and it DOES effect people. Whether its legal or not, the effects are there.

I garauntee you if they both attend public school, and seize the opportunity of an education and actually apply themselves, both will have the opportunity to go to college. If they seize the opportunity at college, then they will both have the opportunity to get a good job that pays. You're "400 year late state is quite a theory in itself."

And who makes them apply themselves? Where one grows up has a HUGE effect on whether one applies oneselves in those situations. Where one grows up is often a result of racism and left over realities from times of greater discrimination.

Holmes, income doesn't effect people's opportunties in the U.S. THere are laws in place (at the Federal level) to give low income families all the support they need. I list some....Welfare, FAFSA, Affirmitive Action was one, Free Lunch (at state level), etc....

Are you serious?

Welfare...you can only be on it for 5 years. That and its not exactly enough money to raise a stable environment.

Affirmative action doesn't kick in until AFTER you've gotten past poverty and racism until your 18. Oh and FAFSA is a loan. Know how much college is these days? Know what you can do with a college degree? Not much.

The FAFASA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) is designed to give federal grants and college assistance to all low income families. I'm white, my mom was a single mom with three kids, two of which were in college. She made 19,000 a year. That's lower than the poverty level. Do you think I paid for my college out of pocket??? (Almost) I almost had to pay for my entire college from working 50 hours a week while going to school full time. I did get some grants at the university level. One thing I did notice though, was that my sister, (a girl) got more financial aid than I did. And I did notice many black students (that did attend college) had alot of financial aid being granted to them.

Congratulations. Your the exception, not the rule. Theres a reason that so many middle class kids go to college and so many poor kids don't.