The Reverend Wright

[Paulie]

You know...When someone says crap like "bush lied people died" I put them on the ignore button and IF they have anything important to say I miss out on it because I refuse to listen to them.
Same when people say Hillary is an ugly lesbian. I really dont think she is ugly and even if she was, what the hell does that have to do with her ability to run the country?

Well, it's a bit ridiculous that "Bush lied people died" bothers you so much that you actually use the ignore function because of it.

Anyway though, I'm feeling the same way about this Rev. Wright bullshit (besides the ignore function). That it's STILL an issue is pretty sad. What does it have to do with Obama's ability to run the country? I haven't seen a good thread making a case against Obama's politics in MONTHS. The same partisan, so-called "Republicans" on here are still harping on the connection like it's got SHIT to do with his abilities.

Just how the establishment likes it, too.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well, it's a bit ridiculous that "Bush lied people died" bothers you so much that you actually use the ignore function because of it.

Anyway though, I'm feeling the same way about this Rev. Wright bullshit (besides the ignore function). That it's STILL an issue is pretty sad. What does it have to do with Obama's ability to run the country? I haven't seen a good thread making a case against Obama's politics in MONTHS. The same partisan, so-called "Republicans" on here are still harping on the connection like it's got SHIT to do with his abilities.

Just how the establishment likes it, too.

Anyone that attends a church with a specific leader for 20 years MUST belief some of what he says. The claim that a person can spend 20 years as close personal friend of a pastor, consider him their Mentor, spiritual leader and write 2 books with them as the theme must indicate they KNOW the person well, they KNOW what he believes and they support it if after 20 years they are still following the man, still calling him a Mentor, a personal friend and puts them as spiritual leader and advisor on their campaign.

To then claim after all that time, they had no idea what he stood for, what he believed, what he said, is just a bit of a stretch.

And in my opinion, ones religious beliefs ARE to a degree important, especially if those beliefs are destructive or teach hate or distrust toward a large segment of the population. A President can not properly serve the Country if they believe over half the Country are bad, evil, wrong, pick a word.

 

[Gunny]

Well, it's a bit ridiculous that "Bush lied people died" bothers you so much that you actually use the ignore function because of it.

Anyway though, I'm feeling the same way about this Rev. Wright bullshit (besides the ignore function). That it's STILL an issue is pretty sad. What does it have to do with Obama's ability to run the country? I haven't seen a good thread making a case against Obama's politics in MONTHS. The same partisan, so-called "Republicans" on here are still harping on the connection like it's got SHIT to do with his abilities.

Just how the establishment likes it, too.

Different topic.

The Rev. Wright uses the pulpit and church as a guise for preaching politics.

Attending church is ALL ABOUT belief. If you don't believe what it being taught, why attend? One doesn't attend a church for 20 years without believing most of what that church is preaching.

The question is, what and how much of what Wright preaches does Obama believe?

Of course his political beliefs are important. Not in and of themselves, but whether or not he is going to try and legislate them, and/or how much they affect his decision-making ability or factor into those decisions.

I would want to know that about about any potential nominee to run this country, my particular state, or my particular city.

 

[AllieBaba]

It's lose lose for Obama. Either he believes what Wright believes and he's lying when he says that suddenly his eyes have been opened...or he's a moron who didn't hear a thing his friend and pastor said for 20 years.

 

[manifold]

It's lose lose for Obama. Either he believes what Wright believes and he's lying when he says that suddenly his eyes have been opened...or he's a moron who didn't hear a thing his friend and pastor said for 20 years.

So what you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're not going to vote for Obama. Is that about right?

 

[JimH52]

Anyone that attends a church with a specific leader for 20 years MUST belief some of what he says. The claim that a person can spend 20 years as close personal friend of a pastor, consider him their Mentor, spiritual leader and write 2 books with them as the theme must indicate they KNOW the person well, they KNOW what he believes and they support it if after 20 years they are still following the man, still calling him a Mentor, a personal friend and puts them as spiritual leader and advisor on their campaign.

To then claim after all that time, they had no idea what he stood for, what he believed, what he said, is just a bit of a stretch.

And in my opinion, ones religious beliefs ARE to a degree important, especially if those beliefs are destructive or teach hate or distrust toward a large segment of the population. A President can not properly serve the Country if they believe over half the Country are bad, evil, wrong, pick a word.

I don't know. I have attended some Churches with preachers for many year and really hardly knew their personalies. It was probably my fault but there was always a seperation that I maintained.

Heck, I listened to the Preacher that married my wife and I for over ten years and, other than feeling confident in his religious beliefs, I cannot say I knew many of his personal traits.

The Wright thing is going to follow Obama through his entire political life for the good or for the bad.

 

[Shogun]

It's hilarious how Wright becomes an issue but Mccain gets a free pass over Hagee.

After all, Wrights perspective comes from the historic FACT of racism in America... Hagee?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's hilarious how Wright becomes an issue but Mccain gets a free pass over Hagee.

After all, Wrights perspective comes from the historic FACT of racism in America... Hagee?

Hagee was not McCains personal pastor, his announced personal friend, personal spiritual advisors and McCain has not had a personal relationship with the man for 20 years. Nor does he eve attend the guys services.

Big big difference all across the board. Also I do not recall McCain writing two books with Hagee in them, naming one after him or his sermons.

 

[Shogun]

HA!

yea, whatever you say, dude.

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[Gunny]

It's hilarious how Wright becomes an issue but Mccain gets a free pass over Hagee.

After all, Wrights perspective comes from the historic FACT of racism in America... Hagee?

McCain is irrelevant to this thread. There is no comparison between McCain accepting a political endorsement from a religious organization and the relationship between Obama and his personal pastor of 20 years.

Wright's perspective comes from old news. He's beating a dead horse and perpetuating racial divisiveness.

It is against the law to discriminate based on race and has been since the 1960s. We can legislate against racial discrimination and have. We even go so far as to try and legislate against personal belief with hate crime laws. The fact is however, there will always be racists no matter how many laws you can conjure up.

Perpetuating racial divisiveness is counterproductive to racial integration. And it takes TWO. When BOTH/or however many sides quit making an issue of race and move on, THEN does it cease to be an issue. Wright has been stuck on loop since the 60s.

What Wright believes is only relevant insofar as how much of what he preaches does Obama agree with, and how much of it bleeds into his politics.

 

[jillian]

You're right... there is no comparison between McCain and Obama...McCain traded my rights over my body for the endorsement of nutcases...

nothing about Obama's pastor will ever become law.

So there ya go.

I think McCain far far worse and his relationship with Hagee far more significant.

 

[Gunny]

You're right... there is no comparison between McCain and Obama...McCain traded my rights over my body for the endorsement of nutcases...

nothing about Obama's pastor will ever become law.

So there ya go.

I think McCain far far worse and his relationship with Hagee far more significant.

One, your first comment is biased, hateful rhetoric.

Two, you have no evidence to support the claim that nothing about Obama's pastor will ever become law. There is absolutely NOTHING to base your statement on.

Your last comment is just more rhetoric.

 

[jillian]

One, your first comment is biased, hateful rhetoric.

Two, you have no evidence to support the claim that nothing about Obama's pastor will ever become law. There is absolutely NOTHING to base your statement on.

Your last comment is just more rhetoric.

Hmmmmmmm... let me rephrase. And apologies for forgetting which forum we're in.

McCain was always pro choice. He called the religious right "agents of intolerance". Fact so far?

Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether they be Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the right.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0002/28/se.01.html

He has now sought and obtained the endorsement of the good rev hagee...

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003728364

Suddenly, he appears on Hardball with Chris Matthews and, eyes heavenward, implies strongly that his VP will have to be anti-choice. (pity, b/c the context was in a discussion of the possibillity of Tom Ridge being VP. I think he would have been a good choice).

Conclusion, and I think it a reasonable conclusion to draw given the nature of politics, that the trade-off for Hagee's endorsement was the pursuit of the agenda of the religious right. That is my opinion. There is nothing hateful about it. I have a lot of respect for John McCain for the sacrifices he made for his country. I just don't think he should be president.

However, I continue to believe that Rev Wright is an irrelevancy as far as Obama is concerned because, ultimately, no legislative or policy choices will be made based on rev wright's beliefs.

And why do I think so many people of this nature are in Obama's world? I think it's because you've been given a window into how whites are viewed by many blacks. I think that's based on hundreds of years of prejudice and disparate treatment. People Ayers age and Wright's age. They came up during Jim Crow. Do you think that anger dissapates? Obama doesn't seem to share that anger, but he spoke honestly about race. I thought it was great that for the first time, a poliical leader spoke to us like we were intelligent. He didn't speak in soundbites.

So, what happens? People still focus on the Wright story... .That makes no sense to me, particularly when no one is writing about the good rev hagee who called catholicism a whore religion.

I think that's civil discourse on a complex issue. You?

 

[Gunny]

Hmmmmmmm... let me rephrase. And apologies for forgetting which forum we're in.

McCain was always pro choice. He called the religious right "agents of intolerance". Fact so far?



http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0002/28/se.01.html

He has now sought and obtained the endorsement of the good rev hagee...

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003728364

Suddenly, he appears on Hardball with Chris Matthews and, eyes heavenward, implies strongly that his VP will have to be anti-choice. (pity, b/c the context was in a discussion of the possibillity of Tom Ridge being VP. I think he would have been a good choice).

Conclusion, and I think it a reasonable conclusion to draw given the nature of politics, that the trade-off for Hagee's endorsement was the pursuit of the agenda of the religious right. That is my opinion. There is nothing hateful about it. I have a lot of respect for John McCain for the sacrifices he made for his country. I just don't think he should be president.

However, I continue to believe that Rev Wright is an irrelevancy as far as Obama is concerned because, ultimately, no legislative or policy choices will be made based on rev wright's beliefs.

And why do I think so many people of this nature are in Obama's world? I think it's because you've been given a window into how whites are viewed by many blacks. I think that's based on hundreds of years of prejudice and disparate treatment. People Ayers age and Wright's age. They came up during Jim Crow. Do you think that anger dissapates? Obama doesn't seem to share that anger, but he spoke honestly about race. I thought it was great that for the first time, a poliical leader spoke to us like we were intelligent. He didn't speak in soundbites.

So, what happens? People still focus on the Wright story... .That makes no sense to me, particularly when no one is writing about the good rev hagee who called catholicism a whore religion.

I think that's civil discourse on a complex issue. You?

Doesn't matter. That forum is now named after a Margaret Mitchell novel.

McCain and/or what he believes is irrelevant to Rev Wright, and is just a deflection from the topic. Not a damned-thing more.

Attempting to say McCain accepting an endorsement from a religious group that equates to votes and money is the same as Obama's relationship between his personal pastor and questioning what beliefs of that pastor does Obama hold is like saying all cattle are the same and trying to milk the bull. BIG difference.

But that's okay. Once again, in yet another thread, the topic has been deflected from an actual legitimate issue to some apples-n-oranges bullshit comparison.

And once it again, it is just more proof of the double standard you lefties hold. There's about as much objectivity as on a One Way street sign.

Newsflash: I don't care if McCain is pro-life or pro-choice. It doesn't matter and your continual fearmongering that whoever the next Republican around the corner is going to try and overturn Roe v Wade is just THAT ... fearmongering.

But, then, the topic here wasn't abortion either. Good job.

 

[BrianH]

You're right, there is no comparison between McCain/Hagee and Obama/Wright. Why do people try to pass it as so. Hagee is not McCain's pastor---McCain wants votes (like any other candidate) and simply accepted Hagee's support...simple as that. He did not attend his church for 20 years, and he has not claimed that Hagee has been a spiritual advisor and mentor. There is no comparison. The only comparison you can make is that they are both pastors...and McCain and Obama are both candidates for the presidency.

As far as the topic goes...Rev. Wright has just publicly become one of the U.S. most notable racists of the 21st century. We not longer live in a world where one races is discriminated against because of their race. Many can throw out accusations that mexican labor is exploited and such, but it's not racism or slavery. If it were, they wouldn't do it. There is no large scale racism of whites against blacks anymore, however, there are many black racists who think so (for some odd reason ). To me, these people are more destructive to our society than the "racism" that they preach. Like I said before, Jesse Jackson comes out of his hole every time a black man is killed by another race. However, anytime a black kills a black, or a black kills someone from another race, he's nowhere to be found. SO much for civil rights and justice for all.

 

[William Joyce]

Anyone that attends a church with a specific leader for 20 years MUST belief some of what he says. The claim that a person can spend 20 years as close personal friend of a pastor, consider him their Mentor, spiritual leader and write 2 books with them as the theme must indicate they KNOW the person well, they KNOW what he believes and they support it if after 20 years they are still following the man, still calling him a Mentor, a personal friend and puts them as spiritual leader and advisor on their campaign.

To then claim after all that time, they had no idea what he stood for, what he believed, what he said, is just a bit of a stretch.

And in my opinion, ones religious beliefs ARE to a degree important, especially if those beliefs are destructive or teach hate or distrust toward a large segment of the population. A President can not properly serve the Country if they believe over half the Country are bad, evil, wrong, pick a word.

Agreed. Since we know precious little about Obama's positions on issues, knowing his MINDSET is even more important. To me, it's got everything to do with everything. Obama is steeped in hard-left, white-hating, America-bashing, black-power juices. Fuck that noise.

 

[Paulie]

Up with HOPE, down with dope!

 

[Helios]

You're right, there is no comparison between McCain/Hagee and Obama/Wright. Why do people try to pass it as so. Hagee is not McCain's pastor---McCain wants votes (like any other candidate) and simply accepted Hagee's support...simple as that. He did not attend his church for 20 years, and he has not claimed that Hagee has been a spiritual advisor and mentor. There is no comparison. The only comparison you can make is that they are both pastors...and McCain and Obama are both candidates for the presidency.

As far as the topic goes...Rev. Wright has just publicly become one of the U.S. most notable racists of the 21st century. We not longer live in a world where one races is discriminated against because of their race. Many can throw out accusations that mexican labor is exploited and such, but it's not racism or slavery. If it were, they wouldn't do it. There is no large scale racism of whites against blacks anymore, however, there are many black racists who think so (for some odd reason ). To me, these people are more destructive to our society than the "racism" that they preach. Like I said before, Jesse Jackson comes out of his hole every time a black man is killed by another race. However, anytime a black kills a black, or a black kills someone from another race, he's nowhere to be found. SO much for civil rights and justice for all.

I find it interesting that no one has addressed the actual issue. Perhaps in my absence this has already been discussed, but what makes Rev. Wright a racist? Did anyone actually watch his whole speech, or did you just get sucked into the 10 second sound byte that has been played over, and over, and over, and over again by the media? The fact that Obama distanced himself from Wright was a purely political maneuver, and a shameful one at that. Even without looking at the morality or immorality of Wright, it shows Obama's blatant fickleness, since he clearly believes/believed in Wright's message. And if I remember correctly, what started this whole mess off was Rev. Wright's comments denouncing the U.S. occupation of Israel. Of course, the facts where quickly slurred and the (mainstream) press rapidly degenerated into a monotonous sound loop.


Here is an interesting interview, which some of you might benefit from.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04252008/watch.html


Since I suspect few to none have the time... or attention span... for the above, here is an abbreviated version of his speech.

Where governments lie, God does not lie. Where governments change, God does not change. And I'm through now. But let me leave you with one more thing. Governments fail. The government in this text comprised of Caesar, Cornelius, Pontius Pilate - the Roman government failed. The British government used to rule from East to West. The British government had a Union Jack. She colonized Kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad and Hong Kong. Her navies ruled the seven seas all the way down to the tip of Argentina in the Falklands, but the British government failed. The Russian government failed. The Japanese government failed. The German government failed. And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent fairly, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to treating her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in internment prison camps. When it came to treating citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters, put them on auction blocks, put them in cotton fields, put them in inferior schools, put them in substandard housing, put them in scientific experiments, put them in the lowest paying jobs, put them outside the equal protection of the law, kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education and locked them into position of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law, and then wants us to sing God bless America? No, no, no. Not God bless America; God damn America! That's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating her citizen as less than human. God damn America as long as she keeps trying to act like she is God and she is supreme!

However, as far as the McCain/Hagee vs. Obama/Wright issue, I agree that there is no comparison, and to suggest one is lunacy.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

I find it interesting that no one has addressed the actual issue. Perhaps in my absence this has already been discussed, but what makes Rev. Wright a racist? Did anyone actually watch his whole speech, or did you just get sucked into the 10 second sound byte that has been played over, and over, and over, and over again by the media? The fact that Obama distanced himself from Wright was a purely political maneuver, and a shameful one at that. Even without looking at the morality or immorality of Wright, it shows Obama's blatant fickleness, since he clearly believes/believed in Wright's message. And if I remember correctly, what started this whole mess off was Rev. Wright's comments denouncing the U.S. occupation of Israel. Of course, the facts where quickly slurred and the (mainstream) press rapidly degenerated into a monotonous sound loop.


Here is an interesting interview, which some of you might benefit from.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04252008/watch.html

...

However, as far as the McCain/Hagee vs. Obama/Wright issue, I agree that there is no comparison, and to suggest one is lunacy.

I had said the following:

There is a very great Chasm, and what Wright said is out there, if any really care enough to listen. The best I can do is tell folks that one of the great problems is that much of the time, those who are white and have little real contact never actually hear anything that black people have to say anyway, and what they do hear is media filtered, when everyone is flipping over Al Sharpton or some such.

The truth is, if you asked a black person to tell you the truth of how they really feel, and they do, and you are white, then you get all stupid and offended, and turn off listening.

Perhaps one place to start is realising that if blacks are alienated from the dominant culture, WHO has it been that has told them they do not fit, won't be accepted, and that you just don't care, for about 400 years or so?

So, if people went on and built their own "space" then why be surprised.

You all brought Wright into this, and you asked, and so he is telling you!

This is the transcript of a speech given by Sen. Barack Obama's former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, at an NAACP dinner on Sunday night.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/28/wright.transcript/index.html?imw=Y

listen here (it should be watched and listened to):

http://www.hiphopmusic.com/2008/04/rev_wright_naacp_speech_video.html

Think about why people would ever feel as he does.

here:http://usmessageboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=680263

and got the usual snotty, blacks are the real racists response.

The truth of the matter is that whites in America absolutely do not want to hear, and will go to nearly any lengths not to. When given a truthful answer, they get ugly and foul. Many who call themselves friends with blacks really are not. Being patronising, and believing that to be a friend is to do the other a favor by being there, is not friendship.

There are fools out here who really believe that blacks were happier as slaves. I even had one weirdo, on another board, tell me that a black renter was "grateful" for being allowed to teach the weirdo's mother how to cook, clean house, and so on, and that 'gratitude' was friendship. The black woman rented from the white, and was put in a position of having to come running every time the white woman called... What was discovered, after a few posts, was that the black woman was doing all the weirdo's mothers cooking and cleaning, for free, as well as paying rent to her.....

What is saddening in the extreme is that what whites just accept and take as a matter of course that what they have always had rights to, blacks still have to petition, and beg, and must fight to have. Their answer is "those people think they are OWED something." Well, they are. As Americans, they are owed exactly the same opportunities and rights as everyone else, equal chances, equal opportunities, and that is something that they do not have.

As for the Rev. Dr. Wright, isn't it amazing that some do not get that what he accomplished IN SPITE OF the times and conditions points out that in a right world he should have been a national leader. Instead, his own personal success had to be accomlished IN SPITE OF, and perhaps a full potential was never realised, even for him, because he, in fact, could not have what he had a right, as an AMERICAN, to have.


As for Obama, if he is even half the human he is touted to be, perhaps there will come a day when he will realise what a gross error he has committed. If not, then perhaps he should not be president anyway.

 

[BrianH]

I had said the following:



here:http://usmessageboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=680263

and got the usual snotty, blacks are the real racists response.

The truth of the matter is that whites in America absolutely do not want to hear, and will go to nearly any lengths not to. When given a truthful answer, they get ugly and foul. Many who call themselves friends with blacks really are not. Being patronising, and believing that to be a friend is to do the other a favor by being there, is not friendship.
There are fools out here who really believe that blacks were happier as slaves. I even had one weirdo, on another board, tell me that a black renter was "grateful" for being allowed to teach the weirdo's mother how to cook, clean house, and so on, and that 'gratitude' was friendship. The black woman rented from the white, and was put in a position of having to come running every time the white woman called... What was discovered, after a few posts, was that the black woman was doing all the weirdo's mothers cooking and cleaning, for free, as well as paying rent to her.....

What is saddening in the extreme is that what whites just accept and take as a matter of course that what they have always had rights to, blacks still have to petition, and beg, and must fight to have. Their answer is "those people think they are OWED something." Well, they are. As Americans, they are owed exactly the same opportunities and rights as everyone else, equal chances, equal opportunities, and that is something that they do not have.

As for the Rev. Dr. Wright, isn't it amazing that some do not get that what he accomplished IN SPITE OF the times and conditions points out that in a right world he should have been a national leader. Instead, his own personal success had to be accomlished IN SPITE OF, and perhaps a full potential was never realised, even for him, because he, in fact, could not have what he had a right, as an AMERICAN, to have.


As for Obama, if he is even half the human he is touted to be, perhaps there will come a day when he will realise what a gross error he has committed. If not, then perhaps he should not be president anyway.

Proof Please. You're assumptions about whites is pure speculation.

As far as the rest...
Blacks get the same opportunities as everyone else. IT'S LAW. No one but WJ is claiming that all blacks are racists. IMO, JESSE JACKSON, REV. WRIGHT, QUANNEL X are racists. They preach justice and civil liberties, yet don't say anything when a black man kills a white man or a black man kills another black man. However, when a white man kills a black man, they're all bells and whistles about racism and injustice. There are many white racists also, however, there is not large scale racism or oppression against blacks. Lifestyle is a choice. Even if you're born into a certain lifestyle, eventually it will become a choice. If you don't want to be poor when you grow up, choose to go to school and get a good job. Everyone has the same opportunities.