The Reverend Wright

[LordBrownTrout]

I find it interesting that no one has addressed the actual issue. Perhaps in my absence this has already been discussed, but what makes Rev. Wright a racist? Did anyone actually watch his whole speech, or did you just get sucked into the 10 second sound byte that has been played over, and over, and over, and over again by the media? The fact that Obama distanced himself from Wright was a purely political maneuver, and a shameful one at that. Even without looking at the morality or immorality of Wright, it shows Obama's blatant fickleness, since he clearly believes/believed in Wright's message. And if I remember correctly, what started this whole mess off was Rev. Wright's comments denouncing the U.S. occupation of Israel. Of course, the facts where quickly slurred and the (mainstream) press rapidly degenerated into a monotonous sound loop.


Here is an interesting interview, which some of you might benefit from.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04252008/watch.html


Since I suspect few to none have the time... or attention span... for the above, here is an abbreviated version of his speech.





However, as far as the McCain/Hagee vs. Obama/Wright issue, I agree that there is no comparison, and to suggest one is lunacy.

Seriously, listen to Wright's CD's. The hate and bigotry is much greater than what we heard on those 30 second sound bytes. It is disturbing and I had originally thought the video played in the media was bad.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

As far as the rest...
Blacks get the same opportunities as everyone else. IT'S LAW.

Yeah, and so is child abuse, corruption, fraud, and a whole lot of other stuff.

But you and others saying this is an example of people who have no clue not getting what is real.


Example; small town, hippy-land No. Cali, not too many black people, Safeway supermarket.... Mom of a particular skin shade as to be not really identifiable as BLACK, has children who are as fair or fairer skinned than she, but these are people who self-identify as black. Another mom, looks enough like the first mom that they could be sisters, has children of the same age, but darker than her, identifiably black, both go to the supermarket and the one with the dark children gets "followed" around here and there the whole time they are in the store, where the one with the fairer skinned children does not. Incidentally, the dark-skinned children have been good kids, honor role, advanced placement students, never in any trouble. The others are good kids, too, but the dark ones are targeted. It did not happen JUST once, but has been a regular thing.

No link to it, but this is people that I know.

No logical reason other than COLOR OF SKIN.

You=white may not get it, but black people sure do.

You=white, just do not want to see, in fact, refuse to see. It is, however a reality.

This is only one example.

 

[Lucky Man]

I find it interesting that no one has addressed the actual issue. Perhaps in my absence this has already been discussed, but what makes Rev. Wright a racist? Did anyone actually watch his whole speech, or did you just get sucked into the 10 second sound byte that has been played over, and over, and over, and over again by the media? The fact that Obama distanced himself from Wright was a purely political maneuver, and a shameful one at that. Even without looking at the morality or immorality of Wright, it shows Obama's blatant fickleness, since he clearly believes/believed in Wright's message. And if I remember correctly, what started this whole mess off was Rev. Wright's comments denouncing the U.S. occupation of Israel. Of course, the facts where quickly slurred and the (mainstream) press rapidly degenerated into a monotonous sound loop.


Here is an interesting interview, which some of you might benefit from.




Since I suspect few to none have the time... or attention span... for the above, here is an abbreviated version of his speech.





However, as far as the McCain/Hagee vs. Obama/Wright issue, I agree that there is no comparison, and to suggest one is lunacy.

I did watch it and my mind wasn't changed.
He may have started off with good intentions but somewhere along the way got off track.

From United Church of Christ Statement of Faith in the form of a doxology

..."binding in covenant faithful people of all ages, tongues, and races."

"We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community."

Wright sounds racially divisive to me.
I guess Obama could have dozed off during those and other controversial parts of Wrights sermons.

 

[mattskramer]

Wright Wright Wright.

It may be that the pastor was not so crass for the first 15 years of his ministry but became more offensive with time. Anyway, years ago, this pastor married the Obamas and baptized their children. I don’t see it hard to believe that Obama no longer believes the rhetoric that Wright spews even though he attended the church 20 years. People change. Wright probably became more radical as time progressed and Obama put up with it without necessarily agreeing with some of the pastor’s stuff. Anyway, we are voting for Obama – not Wright. Obama does not agree with some things that the pastor said. I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Even if he does, to some small degree, identify with Wright, I don’t see it as a big issue. Look at his voting record. It is easy to find. See his positions. That is what I will base my vote on.

 

[William Joyce]

but what makes Rev. Wright a racist?

That's a cute question, Helios, but reveals a pretty serious lack of understanding of the rules of American political discourse. For someone to be a 'racist' requires nothing but the accusation that they are. When it comes to whites, this has been the rule for decades. Now that blacks are getting slapped across the face with it, it's more fun to watch than a NASCAR pile-up.

Truth: Races can't get over race because race is as real a part of the human condition as sex and death. You can't make races "equal" or live together any more than you can get a pride of lions to integrate with a herd of elephants. They evolved under different conditions for thousands of years, and they thrive best when kept apart. The only path to peace is racial separation.

 

[BrianH]

Yeah, and so is child abuse, corruption, fraud, and a whole lot of other stuff.

But you and others saying this is an example of people who have no clue not getting what is real.


Example; small town, hippy-land No. Cali, not too many black people, Safeway supermarket.... Mom of a particular skin shade as to be not really identifiable as BLACK, has children who are as fair or fairer skinned than she, but these are people who self-identify as black. Another mom, looks enough like the first mom that they could be sisters, has children of the same age, but darker than her, identifiably black, both go to the supermarket and the one with the dark children gets "followed" around here and there the whole time they are in the store, where the one with the fairer skinned children does not. Incidentally, the dark-skinned children have been good kids, honor role, advanced placement students, never in any trouble. The others are good kids, too, but the dark ones are targeted. It did not happen JUST once, but has been a regular thing.

No link to it, but this is people that I know.

No logical reason other than COLOR OF SKIN.

You=white may not get it, but black people sure do.

You=white, just do not want to see, in fact, refuse to see. It is, however a reality.

This is only one example.

So you take one experience or a few, and apply it to the whole nation?? I see how this works.

I'll repeat it again, there is no large scale racism against blacks. The fact is (and I've said it a million times on the board). Racism does exist, I won't deny that, but too many people are overly excited to play the racism card. People are different....get over it. You drop me in a circle surrounded by different races, what race am I going to choose? --White--- That doesn't mean that I'm a racist, It just means that I'm more comfortable around my own race. You take a white guy and walk him down the street in Harlem, I could only imagine the reception he would get. That's analogous to the story you've mentioned. You take a black guy and put him in a place of 95% white population, and he's bound to get funny looks, cuase he's different, not because he's black. Take a look at the school lunch room, you'll notice different races sitting together. No one is forcing them to do it, they just do. And there's no racism and hate crimes going on at the school. People are different and when confronted, people pick out differences...color being one of them. WHen a black guy gets mad at a white guy, he'll call him a honky, or a white dumbass. That doesn't mean the black guy is racist, it just means he's picking out the other guys differences from his own.

I will admit that racism exists, but people get in such a hurry to fly the racism banner like Jesse Jackson, Rev. Wright, etc. How many times do you see these "civil rights activists" come out of their holes when a black guy kills another black guy, or a black guy kills a white guy? (Never). SO much for civil rights--more like black rights. Men like this are only in it for their own power. They know there is no large scale oppression of blacks, otherwise they wouldn't be as "successful" as they are. THeir not living in the slums or in the ghettos. They took the opportunities provided to them and worked their way up, as do many white lower-middle class white kids. My whole family was lower-middle class only by a little luck. My father and grandparents grew up as dirt poor share-croppers. I'm the first one in my family to get a college degree. THere are EQUAL opportunities for everyone, it's up to each individual person whether or not they want to take it. Unfortunately, society has every other young black male believing that he's the next NFL, NBA, or rap star...and they (alot, but not all) don't value and education.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

So you take one experience or a few, and apply it to the whole nation?? I see how this works.

No you don't. I gave you one instance of many. I have not the time nor the interest in recounting every instance I know of, especially for one of those who doesn't want to hear it, or know about it. As I said, when those in denial are told the truth they get an "attitude." "I see how this works." No, you see what you want to see.

I am nearly 62 years old and I have been observing and paying attention to this for the last 47 years.

This is about people that I knew/know, being treated differently because of skin-tone, and race perception.

Now, I will tell you, too, that depending upon where one works and the number of co-workers, there may be a few that you work with who, by skin tone and by the way they speak, are not recognised as being "black" but who are. They get to hear how racist white people really are, when those white people think no one who is "other" can hear them. You might be surprised.

Funny stat for you: at least 25% of all white people whose ancestors were in the USA for more or less at least the 50 years before the Civil War have one or more black ancestors. Recently, with internet genealogy, DNA, and a few other things, on discovery of this, suddenly some have a new perception of the racism express by people 'close' to them...... it has made a whole new dynamic in the conversation...

http://backintyme.com/essays/?p=5

 

[BrianH]

No you don't. I gave you one instance of many. I have not the time nor the interest in recounting every instance I know of, especially for one of those who doesn't want to hear it, or know about it. As I said, when those in denial are told the truth they get an "attitude." "I see how this works." No, you see what you want to see.

I am nearly 62 years old and I have been observing and paying attention to this for the last 47 years.

This is about people that I knew/know, being treated differently because of skin-tone, and race perception.

Now, I will tell you, too, that depending upon where one works and the number of co-workers, there may be a few that you work with who, by skin tone and by the way they speak, are not recognised as being "black" but who are. They get to hear how racist white people really are, when those white people think no one who is "other" can hear them. You might be surprised.

Funny stat for you: at least 25% of all white people whose ancestors were in the USA for more or less at least the 50 years before the Civil War have one or more black ancestors. Recently, with internet genealogy, DNA, and a few other things, on discovery of this, suddenly some have a new perception of the racism express by people 'close' to them...... it has made a whole new dynamic in the conversation...

http://backintyme.com/essays/?p=5

First off, don't presume to think that you know what I do and do not know. Second, if I didn't want to hear it like you claim, I wouldn't be involved in this thread, so that's the second biased and discriminative statement you've made toward me, because I'm white and simply disagree with you. You're discriminating against me for opposing your view, even though I have no clue what race you are and have not mentioned anything about you're particular knowledge. Who seems to be the racist one??

There are thousands and maybe millions of car accidents involving alcohol every year. Now does that mean that every car accident in the U.S. involves alcohol. You can't take your own few personal experience and generalize the entire U.S. by saying there is large scale white racism against blacks. Considering you're older, yes, you probably did experience this more because you lived "IN A TIME" when racism was more prominent. IT DOES NOT EXIST IN LARGE SCALE TODAY.

My problem with you're POV is that it's one-sided like Jesse Jackson's. You act as though racism does not go both ways. First, establishing that there is no large scale racism against blacks, racism is double-sided. Racism is bread by parents. You have older generation blacks (stuck in the 60s) that are teaching their kids that all of their problems come from the white folks without realizing that it's a different world now. Little white kids (majority) are brought up to not judge people by the color of their skin. (I'm from the deep south and I was taught this). Numerous little black kids are brought up from civil rights era parents/grandparents and taught that whites are racist against blacks.

I'll agree that racism exist, but I do not believe it exists in large scale as you suggest. We live in a different time and place. Laws are in place that allows equal opportunities to all races. What the majority of the black race chooses to do with their opportunities is up to the black community.

Blacks are no longer segregated, they have equal rights with whites and any other race whether you believe so or not.

 

[Lucky Man]

Now, I will tell you, too, that depending upon where one works and the number of co-workers, there may be a few that you work with who, by skin tone and by the way they speak, are not recognised as being "black" but who are. They get to hear how racist white people really are, when those white people think no one who is "other" can hear them. You might be surprised.

You're blanket accusation that all white people racist is BS.
Maybe you would like to rephrase that.


Funny stat for you: at least 25% of all white people whose ancestors were in the USA for more or less at least the 50 years before the Civil War have one or more black ancestors. Recently, with internet genealogy, DNA, and a few other things, on discovery of this, suddenly some have a new perception of the racism express by people 'close' to them...... it has made a whole new dynamic in the conversation...

Your "funny stat" is no big revelation of the internet age.
This was covered in U.S. history back when the school system became PC.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

You're blanket accusation that all white people racist is BS.
Maybe you would like to rephrase that.

Do me a big favor: when you use what I have said in a quote, please do not add to it in the middle of the quote box.

and no where did I say that ALL are [totally] racist. What I said was "They get to hear how racist white people really are, when those white people think no one who is "other" can hear them."

Read the "how" like "see how big something is" ... "how racist" like on a scale of one to one hundred.... "how racist" like there are varying levels..... I hope that is clear enough for you.....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Do me a big favor: when you use what I have said in a quote, please do not add to it in the middle of the quote box.

and no where did I say that ALL are [totally] racist. What I said was "They get to hear how racist white people really are, when those white people think no one who is "other" can hear them."

Read the "how" like "see how big something is" ... "how racist" like on a scale of one to one hundred.... "how racist" like there are varying levels..... I hope that is clear enough for you.....

So as I read it you believe all whites ARE racist, just in varying degrees. I suggest that your analogy works just as well for blacks or Hispanics or Asians.

 

[indago]

What is so reverend about The Reverend Wright?

 

[Lucky Man]

Do me a big favor: when you use what I have said in a quote, please do not add to it in the middle of the quote box.

and no where did I say that ALL are [totally] racist. What I said was "They get to hear how racist white people really are, when those white people think no one who is "other" can hear them."

Read the "how" like "see how big something is" ... "how racist" like on a scale of one to one hundred.... "how racist" like there are varying levels..... I hope that is clear enough for you.....

Did realize it was so distracting and it DOES sound racist.

 

[dread]

The only thing I got out of the last two pages is how the Contessa sounds REALLY racist against whites.

Tell me Contessa...Do you actually think you are going to win minds and influence others with YOUR snottiness?

I could go on and on about MY personal experiences with people of many races....Like how my grandparents are from Mexico and that I get treated like shit by hispanics UNTILL they see my father and then they think I am one of them...Or how I get treated like shit by blacks untill they see all my cousins and aunt who are from Ethiopia. They too treat me better when they see my family because then they treat me like one of them.

But untill they see all my other family members, because of my light skin, people of other races treat me like shit.


I have yet to be treated like shit by white people when they see me with my family members that are from all over the world.

 

[mattskramer]

What is so reverend about The Reverend Wright?

Definition of Reverand:

-Adjective
1. (initial capital letter ) (used as a title of respect applied or prefixed to the name of a member of the clergy or a religious order): Reverend Timothy Cranshaw; Reverend Mother.

2. worthy to be revered; entitled to reverence.

3. pertaining to or characteristic of the clergy.

–noun
4. Informal. a member of the clergy.


As it pertains to Wright:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright#Career_as_minister

 

[Helios]

Proof Please. You're assumptions about whites is pure speculation.

As far as the rest...
Blacks get the same opportunities as everyone else. IT'S LAW. No one but WJ is claiming that all blacks are racists. IMO, JESSE JACKSON, REV. WRIGHT, QUANNEL X are racists. They preach justice and civil liberties, yet don't say anything when a black man kills a white man or a black man kills another black man. However, when a white man kills a black man, they're all bells and whistles about racism and injustice. There are many white racists also, however, there is not large scale racism or oppression against blacks. Lifestyle is a choice. Even if you're born into a certain lifestyle, eventually it will become a choice. If you don't want to be poor when you grow up, choose to go to school and get a good job. Everyone has the same opportunities.

I think you may be lacking some crucial information. My favorite part of this post is that you denounce someone for not posting any "proof," then go on to your own uninformed and blabbering statements, which are completely unsupported as well.

I wont get into excruciating detail here, but the mere fact that African-Americans are protected by the LAW, doesn't mean anything as far as actual opportunities. I am not an apologist and do not suggest that blacks have no opportunities, I'm not even particularly fond of Affirmative Action; it's true that with enough dedication and education and focus, ANYONE can succeed in America today. However, blacks have a 400 year late start, and to suggest that this should not be a factor in considering their current opportunities is ludicrous and rather ignorant of history. SEPARATE BUT EQUAL was a LAW too, care to recall how that worked out for blacks in America?

Wright is not racist. Malcolm X is not racist. They merely understand the plight and suppression of the ethnic group they belong to, and are more militant and forceful about equality. If that offends you, start a church yourself. It is America after all, the land of opportunity.

 

[Gunny]

I think you may be lacking some crucial information. My favorite part of this post is that you denounce someone for not posting any "proof," then go on to your own uninformed and blabbering statements, which are completely unsupported as well.

I wont get into excruciating detail here, but the mere fact that African-Americans are protected by the LAW, doesn't mean anything as far as actual opportunities. I am not an apologist and do not suggest that blacks have no opportunities, I'm not even particularly fond of Affirmative Action; it's true that with enough dedication and education and focus, ANYONE can succeed in America today. However, blacks have a 400 year late start, and to suggest that this should not be a factor in considering their current opportunities is ludicrous and rather ignorant of history. SEPARATE BUT EQUAL was a LAW too, care to recall how that worked out for blacks in America?

Wright is not racist. Malcolm X is not racist. They merely understand the plight and suppression of the ethnic group they belong to, and are more militant and forceful about equality. If that offends you, start a church yourself. It is America after all, the land of opportunity.

Equality by law DOES mean something as far as opportunities go. It means one cannot be discriminated against by law when pursuing those opportunities.

Who has a 400 year late start? That's crap. Blacks born in the US today have the same "start" as anyone else. To use that as an excuse is what's ludicrous. And that's all it is. An excuse.

Wright and Malcom X both are and were respectively, racist. They promote their race exclusively, and paint a woebegone, downtrodden picture of how rough blacks have it and how they're getting screwed by "the Man."

I can understand Malcom X doing it. He is from a period in time when there was legal discrimination. Wright is just perpetuating racial devisiveness with his inflammatory propaganda.

You mention opportunies ... how or when is it you expect blacks to pursue those opportunities when they have leaders like Sharpton and Wright keeping them them perpetually stuck in the 60s mindset?

 

[mattskramer]

With all of this Reverend Wright stuff that has been thrown around (as if he is running for president), I have yet to see a play on his name. I have not even heard a play on his name on the old loudmouth Savage. It would have been so easy. “Reverend Wright is Wrong” is a good example. I’m sure that other people, particularly of the conservative Republican Right can come up with some.

 

[manifold]

With all of this Reverend Wright stuff that has been thrown around (as if he is running for president), I have yet to see a play on his name. I have not even heard a play on his name on the old loudmouth Savage. It would have been so easy. “Reverend Wright is Wrong” is a good example. I’m sure that other people, particularly of the conservative Republican Right can come up with some.

Did you miss my Reverend Wrighteous play?

 

[doeton]

"black-power juices."

anyone know if this stuff is available over the net?