The Quandary Christians Put Gays In

[Syriusly]

So you are saying that indoctrination against racial bias in marriage worked.

If that is how you think attitudes have changed regarding sexual orientation bias- okay with me.

No, you're saying that.

I'm saying there is no Christian doctrine prohibition of mixed race marriage. There is a Christian doctrine prohibition of homosexuality.
I can't make it any plainer.

There is no Christian doctrine prohibiting female homosexuality- it doesn't exist other than through the VERY strained rationalization of a line by Paul.

And yes- there were Christians who very much claimed that God was against mixed race marriages- and provided citations from the Bible.

Just goes to you show you- whatever the belief- there are Christians who will find a quotation from the bible to support it.

Homosexuality in and of itself is not sinful. Acting on the desire, publicizing it, glorifying it, rubbing it in humanity's face, teaching it to our children is where the "sin" comes in.

Just like Divorce?

Homos get divorced.

So you are admitting that homosexuals are just like Conservative Christians?

 

[hazlnut]

By the way, you're doing the same thing. Christians aren't hateful, but are you?

Some so-called Christians are very hateful - they misuse scripture, quoting out of context, to justify their own homophobia. Hate, no matter how veiled, is still hate.

 

[Flash Farley]

No, you're saying that.

I'm saying there is no Christian doctrine prohibition of mixed race marriage. There is a Christian doctrine prohibition of homosexuality.
I can't make it any plainer.

There is no Christian doctrine prohibiting female homosexuality- it doesn't exist other than through the VERY strained rationalization of a line by Paul.

And yes- there were Christians who very much claimed that God was against mixed race marriages- and provided citations from the Bible.

Just goes to you show you- whatever the belief- there are Christians who will find a quotation from the bible to support it.

Homosexuality in and of itself is not sinful. Acting on the desire, publicizing it, glorifying it, rubbing it in humanity's face, teaching it to our children is where the "sin" comes in.

Just like Divorce?

Homos get divorced.

So you are admitting that homosexuals are just like Conservative Christians?

Nope. Homos are confused nasty God hating creatures.

 

[Flash Farley]

By the way, you're doing the same thing. Christians aren't hateful, but are you?

Some so-called Christians are very hateful - they misuse scripture, quoting out of context, to justify their own homophobia. Hate, no matter how veiled, is still hate.

What about Muslims?

 

[Kosh]

By the way, you're doing the same thing. Christians aren't hateful, but are you?

Some so-called Christians are very hateful - they misuse scripture, quoting out of context, to justify their own homophobia. Hate, no matter how veiled, is still hate.

Says the hate filled racist/bigoted far left drone..

 

[BarrySoetoro]

Not a religious discussion, a discussion on cultural perspectives.

I do mix it up in our discussions about gay culture and to me it's largely sport, but there's another part of me that attempts to see these social issues through the eyes of gay people. Two of the closest friends of my family happen to be gay, a woman I've known since I was in Junior High who was a teacher of mine and her partner. They are getting married this month and we will be enthusiastic attenders. My trust in them is implicit to the point they often babysit our 4 kids and are called Aunt by them. Yes they are that close.

So their up and coming wedding has gotten me thinking about the issue of gay marriage in the Christian church. They are Christians and church goers, attending a Reconciling congregation, the kind more accepting of gays and gay marriage.

I'm extremely happy for them, so is my wife and my in laws who are somewhat to very progressive. It occurs to me to wonder why happily married Christians would deny nuptial bliss to any couple that love each other. Here's the issue gays are put in by Christians. They're told that the lifestyle is sinful and that they should either abstain from sex altogether or get married to a person of the opposite sex. Many men have done that, living a lie until the lie gets too great and they revert back to their sexual set point, often cheating on their wives in secretive dalliances or outright abandoning their family.

Exhibit A:

Option B is not any better. St. Paul himself said that it is better for a man to marry than to burn with desire. Since Exodus International has demonstrated to us that it's not possible to "pray the gay away" or use therapy to change one's sexual orientation, what choice do they have? Let's review the choices again:

1. Marry a person of the opposite sex and live a lie with disastrous results that hurt an innocent wife and children.

2. Burn with sexual desire until the desire becomes to great and men hook up with other men, often multiple partners increasing the chances for STD's and drug abuse.

3. Same sex marriage; marrying a person they are attracted to and can love for the rest of their lives in a committed manner.

I'm going to be honest, though I don't like the Supreme Court circumventing the constitutional and republican form of government that clearly puts this issue to the states to decide, I'm also not of the opinion that our civilization is imperiled because people who love each other are getting married. I'm just not.

So here I am, a Christian, telling my fellow Christians that the solution may be to start talking TO homosexuals instead of about them; to forge friendships like I have and gain a new perspective and try to see the world through their eyes.

I have and I got no regrets about it.

Some christian. YOU go talk to gays. maybe you can find a common ground.

 

[Statistikhengst]

The Christians who support gay marriages are not true Christians. You have to be ashamed. Just because of people like you so many Americans turned away from Christianity.

Just so we're clear, not only have you set yourself up as a fair arbiter of who is and isn't Christian, but you also have a battery of links ready to post demonstrating that people are waxing in antipathy toward Christianity because it's becoming more accepting of homosexuals.....which I'm sure your next post will include.

The problem with the Christian Church at least in America is that Protestantism has taught you to see the Bible as a legal document that holds every religious concept prisoner to a narrow interpretation of eclectically chosen scriptures. You aren't pursuing the heart of God, nor his passion to reach sinners, nor his teachings that we build bridges and reach out to everyone, including homosexuals, for Christ. Instead you quote Leviticus and build walls, outside of which you fling fiery arrows, making enemies out of the very people Jesus told you to reach.

So Jesus is looking for other vessels, anyone who will build those bridges and become the face of Christ to those he wants to reach.

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality or not? It's a yes or no answer

The Tanakh does not. It condemns two very specific homosexual acts.

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What the stupid goyim don't realize is that the Tanakh has nothing to do with them or about them

I would say that that depends on how seriously they take the words of Jeshua, who said that he came not to take even one whit of the law (Halakha), but rather, to add to it.

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[Statistikhengst]

Not a religious discussion, a discussion on cultural perspectives.

I do mix it up in our discussions about gay culture and to me it's largely sport, but there's another part of me that attempts to see these social issues through the eyes of gay people. Two of the closest friends of my family happen to be gay, a woman I've known since I was in Junior High who was a teacher of mine and her partner. They are getting married this month and we will be enthusiastic attenders. My trust in them is implicit to the point they often babysit our 4 kids and are called Aunt by them. Yes they are that close.

So their up and coming wedding has gotten me thinking about the issue of gay marriage in the Christian church. They are Christians and church goers, attending a Reconciling congregation, the kind more accepting of gays and gay marriage.

I'm extremely happy for them, so is my wife and my in laws who are somewhat to very progressive. It occurs to me to wonder why happily married Christians would deny nuptial bliss to any couple that love each other. Here's the issue gays are put in by Christians. They're told that the lifestyle is sinful and that they should either abstain from sex altogether or get married to a person of the opposite sex. Many men have done that, living a lie until the lie gets too great and they revert back to their sexual set point, often cheating on their wives in secretive dalliances or outright abandoning their family.

Exhibit A:

Option B is not any better. St. Paul himself said that it is better for a man to marry than to burn with desire. Since Exodus International has demonstrated to us that it's not possible to "pray the gay away" or use therapy to change one's sexual orientation, what choice do they have? Let's review the choices again:

1. Marry a person of the opposite sex and live a lie with disastrous results that hurt an innocent wife and children.

2. Burn with sexual desire until the desire becomes to great and men hook up with other men, often multiple partners increasing the chances for STD's and drug abuse.

3. Same sex marriage; marrying a person they are attracted to and can love for the rest of their lives in a committed manner.

I'm going to be honest, though I don't like the Supreme Court circumventing the constitutional and republican form of government that clearly puts this issue to the states to decide, I'm also not of the opinion that our civilization is imperiled because people who love each other are getting married. I'm just not.

So here I am, a Christian, telling my fellow Christians that the solution may be to start talking TO homosexuals instead of about them; to forge friendships like I have and gain a new perspective and try to see the world through their eyes.

I have and I got no regrets about it.

Some christian. YOU go talk to gays. maybe you can find a common ground.

Ahhhhh, more Christian hubris. Fun.

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[Syriusly]

There is no Christian doctrine prohibiting female homosexuality- it doesn't exist other than through the VERY strained rationalization of a line by Paul.

And yes- there were Christians who very much claimed that God was against mixed race marriages- and provided citations from the Bible.

Just goes to you show you- whatever the belief- there are Christians who will find a quotation from the bible to support it.

Homosexuality in and of itself is not sinful. Acting on the desire, publicizing it, glorifying it, rubbing it in humanity's face, teaching it to our children is where the "sin" comes in.

Just like Divorce?

Homos get divorced.

So you are admitting that homosexuals are just like Conservative Christians?

Nope. Homos are confused nasty God hating creatures.

So they are just like Conservative Christians!

 

[Syriusly]

By the way, you're doing the same thing. Christians aren't hateful, but are you?

Some so-called Christians are very hateful - they misuse scripture, quoting out of context, to justify their own homophobia. Hate, no matter how veiled, is still hate.

What about Muslims?

Some so-called Muslims are also very hateful- and misuse the Koran, hate, no matter how veiled is still hate.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The will of God according to who?

According to God himself.

Religion is a synthesis, not merely a book.

This religion is based on a book, the book contains the sum of God's will for his followers; the rigidity of which shouldn't be called to question or reinterpreted to satisfy the public or the wills of the following.

God doesn't come down to break ties and tell you whose interpretations are right.

God expects us to obey his will and his commandments, and some are so painfully straight forward that it can be construed as defiance to "reinterpret" them. God comes to break all the ties when it comes time to judge all of mankind in the end.

In Matthew 12:39, and 16:4 God stopped being the tiebreaker until Judgement Day. The sign of Jonah was the last sign God would to a "evil, adulterous generation craving a sign."

Nor is religion formed in one direction, with a book mandating belief.

Buddhism has the Buddhavacana, Christianity the Bible, Islam the Qur'an, and Judaism with the Masoretic Texts; just to name a few. Each of these faiths have a book or texts which give directions on how one must worship and practice their respective faiths. While there are different iterations of these texts, the goal remains the same: glorification, worship, and obedience of and to the deity.

And how using the same bible in the same general theological tradition, the same faith and the same denomination......the Founders executed gays, while modern Christians didn't. With the Puritans executing both sodomites and adulterers. With neither the Founders nor modern Christians executing the latter.

According to some, the Founders weren't Christians and were "Deists." That argument is used when others contend America was founded as a Christian nation. So, why are we now attributing them to Christianity? I argue that the Founders were perverting the scriptures, just as the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians are today (yes, in my mind they are twisting the scriptures around to appease the public conscience, or the individual's).

Did 'God's will' change from the 1600s to today, or did the people change?

God is unchanging, immutable. His will never changed. The people changed, and departed from his will in the process.

When you say they are in direct defiance of what the Bible teaches, you're offering us a set of interpretations and priorities of passages that you believe that supports that conclusion.

Actually, if we are all reading the same Bible, I contend those verses would hold the same meaning to everyone. If the Bible says in no uncertain terms "marriage is between one man and one woman" then such an assertion isn't up for debate.

But someone else can have a different set of interpretations and priorities of passages which contradicts it.

I was taught that any priorities or notions I have about the Bible are contrary to the will of God. The Bible tells me what to follow and what not to follow, what to endorse and what not to. To me, there is no freedom of interpretation. I think the Bible states its case rather plainly.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

So you are saying that indoctrination against racial bias in marriage worked.

If that is how you think attitudes have changed regarding sexual orientation bias- okay with me.

No, you're saying that.

I'm saying there is no Christian doctrine prohibition of mixed race marriage. There is a Christian doctrine prohibition of homosexuality.
I can't make it any plainer.

There is no Christian doctrine prohibiting female homosexuality- it doesn't exist other than through the VERY strained rationalization of a line by Paul.

And yes- there were Christians who very much claimed that God was against mixed race marriages- and provided citations from the Bible.

Just goes to you show you- whatever the belief- there are Christians who will find a quotation from the bible to support it.

Yes, there are people who have used the bible to push their personal biases. Kerry and Obama have used the bible to push bigger government. However, the bible is very precise and clear regarding homosexuality. It's condemned and you know it.

The Bible barely mentions homosexuality.

Leviticus does- the same chapter that forbids you from eating pork and shrimp- and from cutting your beard- you follow all of those instructions?

If not we can move to the New Testament.

In the New Testament- Jesus doesn't mention homosexuality- or condemn it once.

Adultery yes- often. Divorce- yes- Jesus specifically calls divorce and remarriage a sin- unless the wife(and only the wife) commits adultery.

Jesus also tells his followers to follow the 10 Commandments(no mention of homosexuality there) and tells his followers his two greatest commandments(still no mention of homosexuality).

So where does the New Testament refer to homosexuality? 2 places-



1 Corinthians 6:9-1021st Century King James Version (KJ21)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God.


So male homosexuals are condemned as are drunkards and idolators.

Does the church forbid alcoholics from marriage? Do you refuse to serve Hindu's since they are 'idolators'?

Romans
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.


27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense for their error which was meet.

Wait- God gave them up unto vile affections?

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not fitting,

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity. They are whisperers,

30 backbiters, haters of God, spiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affections, implacable, unmerciful.

32 And knowing the judgment of God, that those who commit such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but have pleasure in those who do them.

Do you think that people who are disobedient to their parents are worthy of death?

So yes- there are two brief references to male homosexuals in the NT- no explicit references to female homosexuality.

However- there is explicit condemnation for divorce and remarriage.

You are therefore busy trying to pass laws to forbid people from marrying twice- and of course condemn Newt Gingrich for his sinful marriage?

Jesus Christ said marriage is a male and female in Matthew chapter 19. Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi who believed the Scriptures. Make your case that Jesus approved of homosexuality and homo marriage.

This is the problem with amateur Bible exegesis which entails many common errors one of which you are demonstrating now. You insert an absolute quality where none exists. You presume that if Jesus describes the ideal that a man and a woman should marry that he's condemning everything outside of it. You put your own spin on his words that cannot be justified. In fact nowhere in the Bible is same sex marriage expressly forbidden, no matter how hard you try to hammer that square peg into a round hole.

Applying literary licence to the Bible is contempt for the Bible, an unwillingness to understand what it's really teaching.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Not a religious discussion, a discussion on cultural perspectives.

I do mix it up in our discussions about gay culture and to me it's largely sport, but there's another part of me that attempts to see these social issues through the eyes of gay people. Two of the closest friends of my family happen to be gay, a woman I've known since I was in Junior High who was a teacher of mine and her partner. They are getting married this month and we will be enthusiastic attenders. My trust in them is implicit to the point they often babysit our 4 kids and are called Aunt by them. Yes they are that close.

So their up and coming wedding has gotten me thinking about the issue of gay marriage in the Christian church. They are Christians and church goers, attending a Reconciling congregation, the kind more accepting of gays and gay marriage.

I'm extremely happy for them, so is my wife and my in laws who are somewhat to very progressive. It occurs to me to wonder why happily married Christians would deny nuptial bliss to any couple that love each other. Here's the issue gays are put in by Christians. They're told that the lifestyle is sinful and that they should either abstain from sex altogether or get married to a person of the opposite sex. Many men have done that, living a lie until the lie gets too great and they revert back to their sexual set point, often cheating on their wives in secretive dalliances or outright abandoning their family.

Exhibit A:

Option B is not any better. St. Paul himself said that it is better for a man to marry than to burn with desire. Since Exodus International has demonstrated to us that it's not possible to "pray the gay away" or use therapy to change one's sexual orientation, what choice do they have? Let's review the choices again:

1. Marry a person of the opposite sex and live a lie with disastrous results that hurt an innocent wife and children.

2. Burn with sexual desire until the desire becomes to great and men hook up with other men, often multiple partners increasing the chances for STD's and drug abuse.

3. Same sex marriage; marrying a person they are attracted to and can love for the rest of their lives in a committed manner.

I'm going to be honest, though I don't like the Supreme Court circumventing the constitutional and republican form of government that clearly puts this issue to the states to decide, I'm also not of the opinion that our civilization is imperiled because people who love each other are getting married. I'm just not.

So here I am, a Christian, telling my fellow Christians that the solution may be to start talking TO homosexuals instead of about them; to forge friendships like I have and gain a new perspective and try to see the world through their eyes.

I have and I got no regrets about it.

Some christian. YOU go talk to gays. maybe you can find a common ground.

I have and I have.

 

[Flash Farley]

No, you're saying that.

I'm saying there is no Christian doctrine prohibition of mixed race marriage. There is a Christian doctrine prohibition of homosexuality.
I can't make it any plainer.

There is no Christian doctrine prohibiting female homosexuality- it doesn't exist other than through the VERY strained rationalization of a line by Paul.

And yes- there were Christians who very much claimed that God was against mixed race marriages- and provided citations from the Bible.

Just goes to you show you- whatever the belief- there are Christians who will find a quotation from the bible to support it.

Yes, there are people who have used the bible to push their personal biases. Kerry and Obama have used the bible to push bigger government. However, the bible is very precise and clear regarding homosexuality. It's condemned and you know it.

The Bible barely mentions homosexuality.

Leviticus does- the same chapter that forbids you from eating pork and shrimp- and from cutting your beard- you follow all of those instructions?

If not we can move to the New Testament.

In the New Testament- Jesus doesn't mention homosexuality- or condemn it once.

Adultery yes- often. Divorce- yes- Jesus specifically calls divorce and remarriage a sin- unless the wife(and only the wife) commits adultery.

Jesus also tells his followers to follow the 10 Commandments(no mention of homosexuality there) and tells his followers his two greatest commandments(still no mention of homosexuality).

So where does the New Testament refer to homosexuality? 2 places-



1 Corinthians 6:9-1021st Century King James Version (KJ21)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God.


So male homosexuals are condemned as are drunkards and idolators.

Does the church forbid alcoholics from marriage? Do you refuse to serve Hindu's since they are 'idolators'?

Romans
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.


27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense for their error which was meet.

Wait- God gave them up unto vile affections?

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not fitting,

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity. They are whisperers,

30 backbiters, haters of God, spiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affections, implacable, unmerciful.

32 And knowing the judgment of God, that those who commit such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but have pleasure in those who do them.

Do you think that people who are disobedient to their parents are worthy of death?

So yes- there are two brief references to male homosexuals in the NT- no explicit references to female homosexuality.

However- there is explicit condemnation for divorce and remarriage.

You are therefore busy trying to pass laws to forbid people from marrying twice- and of course condemn Newt Gingrich for his sinful marriage?

Jesus Christ said marriage is a male and female in Matthew chapter 19. Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi who believed the Scriptures. Make your case that Jesus approved of homosexuality and homo marriage.

This is the problem with amateur Bible exegesis which entails many common errors one of which you are demonstrating now. You insert an absolute quality where none exists. You presume that if Jesus describes the ideal that a man and a woman should marry that he's condemning everything outside of it. You put your own spin on his words that cannot be justified. In fact nowhere in the Bible is same sex marriage expressly forbidden, no matter how hard you try to hammer that square peg into a round hole.

Applying literary licence to the Bible is contempt for the Bible, an unwillingness to understand what it's really teaching.

Homosexuality is condemned in both old and new testaments.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality or not? It's a yes or no answer

The Bible condemns rampant, promiscuous, pagan homosexual orgies, yes. I don't believe it condemns a loving couple living in a committed, monogamous, relationship. In these women who are domestic partners getting ready to marry this month, I see touches of grace, evidence of God's love and presence. I don't think God condemns what they are doing in the least. We should all get to know people like this to get a better perspective on where God's heart is....

Which should be what's most important to us.

The bible condemns it in several versus. That's the point, a church can't vote on God's laws. You're either all in or you're out, there is no in between. Homosexuals are welcome in our Church as everyone is but there won't be any SSM or blessing of a same sex union. It's not happening

I fully support the right of your church and mine to preach what they believe to be true, not participate in anything they believe to be wrong, and to be free from coercion by government or any other force. There is no issue there and there's no doubt that my own Catholic religion will not budge on this issue one inch.

I haven't swung over to the "gay rights" side, I'm just expressing my honest opinion born of a wonderful relationship with a gay couple that God is not at odds with what they have together. My spiritual discernment is rarely off and I have no doubt at what I'm seeing, that gay Christians such as truly love the Lord as I do, live lives according to his commandments and teachings, and will be in heaven just as I will be.

I just don't know why so many Christians think to limit God's grace, I just don't....

Our opinions differ. I respect yours and hopefully you respect mine

The way you treat people who are not exactly as you are in USMB, why should anyone respect anything about you, you fucking asswipe?

There is no way in Heaven or Hell that you can be a "christian". Not even the nastiest of Christians is even 1/10th as nasty as you are.

If you really are a Christian (lmao), then show it and call Nat to this thread and publicly apologize to him for being such a fuckwad to him at every turn ever since you got to USMB.

But you will not do that, because no way in Hell are you a Christian. Your potty mouth surely makes your Jesus cry.

So, fuck off, ****.

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Here you go. You're not yourself when you're hungry.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

There is no Christian doctrine prohibiting female homosexuality- it doesn't exist other than through the VERY strained rationalization of a line by Paul.

And yes- there were Christians who very much claimed that God was against mixed race marriages- and provided citations from the Bible.

Just goes to you show you- whatever the belief- there are Christians who will find a quotation from the bible to support it.

Yes, there are people who have used the bible to push their personal biases. Kerry and Obama have used the bible to push bigger government. However, the bible is very precise and clear regarding homosexuality. It's condemned and you know it.

The Bible barely mentions homosexuality.

Leviticus does- the same chapter that forbids you from eating pork and shrimp- and from cutting your beard- you follow all of those instructions?

If not we can move to the New Testament.

In the New Testament- Jesus doesn't mention homosexuality- or condemn it once.

Adultery yes- often. Divorce- yes- Jesus specifically calls divorce and remarriage a sin- unless the wife(and only the wife) commits adultery.

Jesus also tells his followers to follow the 10 Commandments(no mention of homosexuality there) and tells his followers his two greatest commandments(still no mention of homosexuality).

So where does the New Testament refer to homosexuality? 2 places-



1 Corinthians 6:9-1021st Century King James Version (KJ21)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God.


So male homosexuals are condemned as are drunkards and idolators.

Does the church forbid alcoholics from marriage? Do you refuse to serve Hindu's since they are 'idolators'?

Romans
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.


27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense for their error which was meet.

Wait- God gave them up unto vile affections?

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not fitting,

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity. They are whisperers,

30 backbiters, haters of God, spiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affections, implacable, unmerciful.

32 And knowing the judgment of God, that those who commit such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but have pleasure in those who do them.

Do you think that people who are disobedient to their parents are worthy of death?

So yes- there are two brief references to male homosexuals in the NT- no explicit references to female homosexuality.

However- there is explicit condemnation for divorce and remarriage.

You are therefore busy trying to pass laws to forbid people from marrying twice- and of course condemn Newt Gingrich for his sinful marriage?

Jesus Christ said marriage is a male and female in Matthew chapter 19. Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi who believed the Scriptures. Make your case that Jesus approved of homosexuality and homo marriage.

This is the problem with amateur Bible exegesis which entails many common errors one of which you are demonstrating now. You insert an absolute quality where none exists. You presume that if Jesus describes the ideal that a man and a woman should marry that he's condemning everything outside of it. You put your own spin on his words that cannot be justified. In fact nowhere in the Bible is same sex marriage expressly forbidden, no matter how hard you try to hammer that square peg into a round hole.

Applying literary licence to the Bible is contempt for the Bible, an unwillingness to understand what it's really teaching.

Homosexuality is condemned in both old and new testaments.

Not all homosexuality, no.

Now fornication is condemned in the Bible. Have you fornicated?

Lusting after a woman is the same as adultery. Have you lusted?

To hear you speak with such vile contempt for people who Jesus loves, I should think you never met him in your life, so you remain in your sins and you're no better than any homosexual.

 

[Flash Farley]

Yes, there are people who have used the bible to push their personal biases. Kerry and Obama have used the bible to push bigger government. However, the bible is very precise and clear regarding homosexuality. It's condemned and you know it.

The Bible barely mentions homosexuality.

Leviticus does- the same chapter that forbids you from eating pork and shrimp- and from cutting your beard- you follow all of those instructions?

If not we can move to the New Testament.

In the New Testament- Jesus doesn't mention homosexuality- or condemn it once.

Adultery yes- often. Divorce- yes- Jesus specifically calls divorce and remarriage a sin- unless the wife(and only the wife) commits adultery.

Jesus also tells his followers to follow the 10 Commandments(no mention of homosexuality there) and tells his followers his two greatest commandments(still no mention of homosexuality).

So where does the New Testament refer to homosexuality? 2 places-



1 Corinthians 6:9-1021st Century King James Version (KJ21)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God.


So male homosexuals are condemned as are drunkards and idolators.

Does the church forbid alcoholics from marriage? Do you refuse to serve Hindu's since they are 'idolators'?

Romans
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.


27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense for their error which was meet.

Wait- God gave them up unto vile affections?

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not fitting,

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity. They are whisperers,

30 backbiters, haters of God, spiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affections, implacable, unmerciful.

32 And knowing the judgment of God, that those who commit such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but have pleasure in those who do them.

Do you think that people who are disobedient to their parents are worthy of death?

So yes- there are two brief references to male homosexuals in the NT- no explicit references to female homosexuality.

However- there is explicit condemnation for divorce and remarriage.

You are therefore busy trying to pass laws to forbid people from marrying twice- and of course condemn Newt Gingrich for his sinful marriage?

Jesus Christ said marriage is a male and female in Matthew chapter 19. Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi who believed the Scriptures. Make your case that Jesus approved of homosexuality and homo marriage.

This is the problem with amateur Bible exegesis which entails many common errors one of which you are demonstrating now. You insert an absolute quality where none exists. You presume that if Jesus describes the ideal that a man and a woman should marry that he's condemning everything outside of it. You put your own spin on his words that cannot be justified. In fact nowhere in the Bible is same sex marriage expressly forbidden, no matter how hard you try to hammer that square peg into a round hole.

Applying literary licence to the Bible is contempt for the Bible, an unwillingness to understand what it's really teaching.

Homosexuality is condemned in both old and new testaments.

Not all homosexuality, no.

Now fornication is condemned in the Bible. Have you fornicated?

Lusting after a woman is the same as adultery. Have you lusted?

To hear you speak with such vile contempt for people who Jesus loves, I should think you never met him in your life, so you remain in your sins and you're no better than any homosexual.

Yes, I'm better than homosexuals. Ho hum.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

By the way, you're doing the same thing. Christians aren't hateful, but are you?

Some so-called Christians are very hateful - they misuse scripture, quoting out of context, to justify their own homophobia. Hate, no matter how veiled, is still hate.

Non Christians can be hateful too and you seemed to have picked up on the fact that lies are the language of haters. So when you call anyone who disagrees with homosexuality a "homophobe" then what does that make you?

I'm tired of everyone making walls. I'm going to make a few bridges. I invite you to join me.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I personally have no problem with gays getting married anywhere they like. But it is wrong to say that Christians have put gays into any quandary. Christians have as much right to their beliefs as do gays. Why wouldn't gays want to get married where they are welcomed instead of where they aren't? I suspect they wouldn't have much of a welcome in a mosque either.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The Bible barely mentions homosexuality.

Leviticus does- the same chapter that forbids you from eating pork and shrimp- and from cutting your beard- you follow all of those instructions?

If not we can move to the New Testament.

In the New Testament- Jesus doesn't mention homosexuality- or condemn it once.

Adultery yes- often. Divorce- yes- Jesus specifically calls divorce and remarriage a sin- unless the wife(and only the wife) commits adultery.

Jesus also tells his followers to follow the 10 Commandments(no mention of homosexuality there) and tells his followers his two greatest commandments(still no mention of homosexuality).

So where does the New Testament refer to homosexuality? 2 places-



1 Corinthians 6:9-1021st Century King James Version (KJ21)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God.


So male homosexuals are condemned as are drunkards and idolators.

Does the church forbid alcoholics from marriage? Do you refuse to serve Hindu's since they are 'idolators'?

Romans
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.


27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense for their error which was meet.

Wait- God gave them up unto vile affections?

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not fitting,

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity. They are whisperers,

30 backbiters, haters of God, spiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affections, implacable, unmerciful.

32 And knowing the judgment of God, that those who commit such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but have pleasure in those who do them.

Do you think that people who are disobedient to their parents are worthy of death?

So yes- there are two brief references to male homosexuals in the NT- no explicit references to female homosexuality.

However- there is explicit condemnation for divorce and remarriage.

You are therefore busy trying to pass laws to forbid people from marrying twice- and of course condemn Newt Gingrich for his sinful marriage?

Jesus Christ said marriage is a male and female in Matthew chapter 19. Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi who believed the Scriptures. Make your case that Jesus approved of homosexuality and homo marriage.

This is the problem with amateur Bible exegesis which entails many common errors one of which you are demonstrating now. You insert an absolute quality where none exists. You presume that if Jesus describes the ideal that a man and a woman should marry that he's condemning everything outside of it. You put your own spin on his words that cannot be justified. In fact nowhere in the Bible is same sex marriage expressly forbidden, no matter how hard you try to hammer that square peg into a round hole.

Applying literary licence to the Bible is contempt for the Bible, an unwillingness to understand what it's really teaching.

Homosexuality is condemned in both old and new testaments.

Not all homosexuality, no.

Now fornication is condemned in the Bible. Have you fornicated?

Lusting after a woman is the same as adultery. Have you lusted?

To hear you speak with such vile contempt for people who Jesus loves, I should think you never met him in your life, so you remain in your sins and you're no better than any homosexual.

Yes, I'm better than homosexuals. Ho hum.

Thank you for proving me right. You should meet Jesus and repent lest the day come upon you that you see the homosexual enter into heaven and you are shut out.