The political spectrum

[Votto]

Excellent discussion topic and well presented. However, the chart/graphics need a bit of tweaking I think. It stops short on the left side.

On the left the extreme is not fascism but communism, i.e. presumed total freedom. Fascism is a stage on the road to totalitarianism which is a necessary stage of the Marxist process before communism can be achieved. Unfortunately no government having achieved those stages on the road to communism has been willing to voluntarily relinquish it as Marx/Engles envisioned. No country calling itself communist actually is communist as all stopped at some part of the fascist or totalitarian stage.

The goal of communism is not communism. The reason despots favor Marxist philosophy is because to give Marxism half a chance at working the government needs complete control over every aspect of your life.

Then when they fall short of absolute Marxism/communism, the Left points to it and says, "See, they did not live up to the absolute ideal, so that is why it did not work which is why we need to try again.

 

[Foxfyre]

The goal of communism is not communism. The reason despots favor Marxist philosophy is because to give Marxism half a chance at working the government needs complete control over every aspect of your life.

Then when they fall short of absolute Marxism/communism, the Left points to it and says, "See, they did not live up to the absolute ideal, so that is why it did not work which is why we need to try again.

View attachment 801208

I think it might start out that way in the minds of the people. The Bolsheviks in Russia for instance were a far left Marxist group that really intended to implement the vision of the Communist Manifesto. But the process to get from capitalism to Marxism requires a period of totalitarianism in which free speech, religion, private property, individualism is outlawed to create a society that is 100% collective.

Then the government can be dissolved and the people will live peacefully as a collective, from each according to his means to each according to his needs.

Marx left two hard facts out of his equation though:
1. When a person works without receiving and another receives without working, neither are inclined to do much if any work.
2. Once a government achieves total power and creates a totalitarian state, there has never been one in all of recorded history that voluntarily relinquished all of that power. Some modified somewhat to the advantage of the government but they retain all power they want.

And that is what happened in Russia, in China, in North Korea, in Cuba, in Vietnam et al.

 

[sealybobo]

Hindu Dindu

So they can give your job to someone from India who only asks to be paid 50K?

Now you're complaining about that? You mother fuckers! How many years have American call centers been outsourced to India. Where've you been?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Lol…go rage young fool…it’d be like hearing a gnat fart.

It Takes Very Few to Topple the Top

 

[basquebromance]

Crazy how many characteristics BLM have in that link you posted.
So, only fascists have militaries. Interesting take on that.
Does sending out goons to murder people, burn things down and intimidate people to bend their knee to what you want count?
As far as CHAZ go, I dont really remember what all those retards did, so I cant comment on it. I might read up on them in a little bit.

Politics, the crooked timber of our communal lives, dominates everything because, in the end, everything both high and low and most especially, high...lives or dies by politics. Get your politics wrong, however, and everything stands to be swept away!

 

[basquebromance]

We need to put this shit to bed.
The extreme left is tyranny, the extreme right is anarchy.

The political spectrum is not from one tyranny to another, it is from tyranny, to total freedom. The very definition of "spectrum" should tell you that.
A spectrum is the scale of 2 opposites. Not two similarities.
Please drop your middle school interpretation of left vs right.
Real liberals are not leftists. How could someone that believes in small govt and liberty be on the side of collectivism and big govt?
Most republicans are not righties. How can people that want to use the govt to shove their version of morality down peoples throats be righties? How can people that want to use the govt to control and bail out the private sector be righties?

Normally it takes till middle age to realize that Left and Right are essentially, at the extremes, the equivalent: totalitarian. I saw as a student that extreme nationalism and extreme socialism don’t just meet in Berlin in 1933, they can meet at the university I attended. I became very acutely aware of the dangers, the hypocrisies...of the political extremes. It cleansed me very early in my political evolution of any romanticism.

 

[basquebromance]

America is the only country ever founded on an idea. The only country that is not founded on race or even common history. It’s founded on an idea and the idea is liberty

 

[basquebromance]

this thread is not just thought-provoking, but also "feeling-provoking"!