The Phantom's Polling Analysis Thread

BluePhantom

Educator (of liberals)
Nov 11, 2011
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Portland, OR / Salem, OR
The purpose of this thread will be to provide an analysis of polling through the election in November. I have a spreadsheet that I wrote that crunches the numbers very effectively and has shown some very solid accuracy in past presidential, gubernatorial, and congressional elections. While it has the ability to get pretty indepth with its calculations I am going to avoid that for now because a) the election is too far away to be focusing so closely on fractions of a percentage, b) some of the calculations would require far too much space writing out equations, and c) all that is more "my personal method" while the intent is to take a more general view here.

As much as possible I will attempt to be non-partisan and ask you to do the same. It's my hope that we can engage in analysis from an objective point of view in order to reach conclusions about what the data actually suggests instead of what we are hoping it says.

The procedure I will use on this thread is as follows:

1) All polls will be included whether I, or anyone else, finds that polls to be reliable or not.

2) Polls will be averaged out to provide baseline data into three categories: a) professional polling organizations, b) media polls, and c) all polls combined. I will post polling averages weekly in these three categories as well as a two week average.

3) Polls that were not completed before April 10th will be ignored. This is because that is the day that Santorum dropped out of the race and the entire landscaped changed after that. The first weekly cutoff date will therefore be April 17th, the second will be April 24th and so on. Polls will be categorized according to the date they were completed.

4) Daily tracking polls that use a rolling average (Rasmussen and Gallup, for example) will be calculated according to their current data on the final day of the weekly period to avoid over-representation within a given week. However, for the two week average and for purposes of identifying trends they will be considered separate polls from one week to the next. This will avoid redundancy since Rasmussen uses a three day rolling average and Gallup a five day rolling average...in other words enough time will have passed in their averages to consider them separate polls from one week to the next as previous data will have dropped off their averages.

5) Polls over two weeks old will be completely ignored as the data is too old to consider except where trends can be identified. Personally I prefer 10 days but we will go with 14 for ease and consistency on this thread.

6) And I want to stress this again.....I encourage as much objective analysis and debate about interpretation as possible. However, those who wish to cry and moan about this poll or that poll and turn this into a political debate are strongly encouraged to opine elsewhere. I encourage everyone to read the OP in Poll Reading 101 for some basics in polling analysis.


The first set of data on the week ending April 17th will be posted shortly.
 
Weekly Breakdown for 4/17/2012

Things are going to start slowly. Right now there's not a great deal of data to break into because we are only looking at the first week after Santorum dropped from the race. This will give us a starting point but not much else. Also, with Santorum dropping, there's going to be a major shakeup in the numbers and it probably won't settle down for a solid month. So I expect the data to be "noisy" (meaning "all over the place") for a few weeks until things start to establish themselves and actual trends can start to be identified. So all we really have right now is some very basic information that we can mark as "the starting gates".

The following polls were listed on RCP for the week in question:

Professional Polling Organizations
Rasmussen (LV - tracking): Obama 44, Romney 47
Quinnipiac (RV): Obama 46, Romney 42
Gallup (RV - tracking): Obama 44, Romney 48
PPP[D] (RV): Obama 49, Romney 46

Average: Obama 47.75, Romney 47.75; Tie

Media polls
CNN/OR (RV): Obama 52, Romney 43
CBS/NYT (RV): Obama 46, Romney 46
Reuters (RV): Obama 47, Romney 43
NBC/WSJ (RV): Obama 49, Romney 43

Average: Obama 48.50, Romney 43.75; Obama +4.75

Overall Average: Obama 47.13, Romney 44.75; Obama +2.38


Assuming a standard MOE of 4% what we have is a statistical tie except where the media polls are considered alone.

For Swing State Polls we have even less information. For the given week we have:

Florida: PPP[D] (RV): Obama 50, Romney 45; Obama +5
Missouri: Rasmussen (LV): Obama 45, Romney 48; Romney +3


Obviously this doesn't tell us a whole lot, but more information will come as things progress.

I will post a breakdown of demographic information by tomorrow to identify some starting points which will include information on gender, party identification, race, education level, etc to use in the future to identify trends according to specific demographics. Like the base data those will be averaged out as well.

So....right now we don't have much. As I said....we have some basic starting points and unfortunately that's about it. Demographic breakdowns to come soon.
 
as of todays poll giving Obama 49% ? really, half of America is loving the 4.00 gas and high food prices and knowing their kids are already $50,000 in debt?

patisan hacks like you think other people think like you. lol..

the president outpolls romney in every aspect except the economy. and even on that, it's pretty close.

romney's likeability ratings are horrible (rightfully so) and the president has something like a 40% lead among hispanics and a double digit lead among women. he even has a 10 point lead among independents.
 
Weekly Breakdown for 4/17/2012

Things are going to start slowly. Right now there's not a great deal of data to break into because we are only looking at the first week after Santorum dropped from the race. This will give us a starting point but not much else. Also, with Santorum dropping, there's going to be a major shakeup in the numbers and it probably won't settle down for a solid month. So I expect the data to be "noisy" (meaning "all over the place") for a few weeks until things start to establish themselves and actual trends can start to be identified. So all we really have right now is some very basic information that we can mark as "the starting gates".

The following polls were listed on RCP for the week in question:

Professional Polling Organizations
Rasmussen (LV - tracking): Obama 44, Romney 47
Quinnipiac (RV): Obama 46, Romney 42
Gallup (RV - tracking): Obama 44, Romney 48
PPP[D] (RV): Obama 49, Romney 46

Average: Obama 47.75, Romney 47.75; Tie

Media polls
CNN/OR (RV): Obama 52, Romney 43
CBS/NYT (RV): Obama 46, Romney 46
Reuters (RV): Obama 47, Romney 43
NBC/WSJ (RV): Obama 49, Romney 43

Average: Obama 48.50, Romney 43.75; Obama +4.75

Overall Average: Obama 47.13, Romney 44.75; Obama +2.38


Assuming a standard MOE of 4% what we have is a statistical tie except where the media polls are considered alone.

For Swing State Polls we have even less information. For the given week we have:

Florida: PPP[D] (RV): Obama 50, Romney 45; Obama +5
Missouri: Rasmussen (LV): Obama 45, Romney 48; Romney +3


Obviously this doesn't tell us a whole lot, but more information will come as things progress.

I will post a breakdown of demographic information by tomorrow to identify some starting points which will include information on gender, party identification, race, education level, etc to use in the future to identify trends according to specific demographics. Like the base data those will be averaged out as well.

So....right now we don't have much. As I said....we have some basic starting points and unfortunately that's about it. Demographic breakdowns to come soon.

That 'likely voter' stat is telling....
 
as of todays poll giving Obama 49% ? really, half of America is loving the 4.00 gas and high food prices and knowing their kids are already $50,000 in debt?

patisan hacks like you think other people think like you. lol..

the president outpolls romney in every aspect except the economy. and even on that, it's pretty close.

romney's likeability ratings are horrible (rightfully so) and the president has something like a 40% lead among hispanics and a double digit lead among women. he even has a 10 point lead among independents.

I am soooo...curious.

You're too smart to vote for the empty suit....
...is it going to be Romney, or skip-it?


C'mon....'fess up.....
 
you think so?

maybe we should do a scientific poll on it.

OK, how do you wanna tackle it?

you're the one who had the comment. perhaps you should work that out. some of us enjoy discussing this issue... nate silver or not.

I didn't say I wanted to do a scientific poll

My comment was based on my prefference for discussing poll and poll analysis with folks who don't just spew profanity and personal insults at people who disagree with them.
 
as of todays poll giving Obama 49% ? really, half of America is loving the 4.00 gas and high food prices and knowing their kids are already $50,000 in debt?

Well I think that's beyond the scope of what we are discussing. See part about being non-partisan. I think what we should take away from an initial reaction is that if I were Obama I would be very unhappy right now. Granted in the overall average he is up by 2.38 but that is including the media polls which are notoriously unreliable and also being all RV polls will give a bit of an edge to the Democratic candidate. Notice there is a 4.75 point differential between the news media and the professional pollsters.

When you consider only the professionals Obama is behind in half the polls, including the only LV poll which is very important, and of those professionals one is PPP which is an organization affiliated with the Democratic party (that's why there is a D in brackets next to it. I will do the same with Magellan but give them an R to notate the affiliation) that is helping to bring Obama even into a dead heat on the averages, let alone the MOE. Now that implies that PPP is biased. I am not going to say that. Actually I don't think they are, but as I have said, with PPP or Magellan it's wise to file it away deep in your brain that they know where their bread is buttered.

So right now, it's a tie even with those statistical advantages to Obama and that's not good news for him or his supporters. He should be way out ahead and the fact that he is not should be scaring the hell out of him.

But what is more important than the spreads right now are the trends and we won't know much about those for at least a few weeks yet. Still we need to get a starting point established to be able to identify them in the future.
 
as of todays poll giving Obama 49% ? really, half of America is loving the 4.00 gas and high food prices and knowing their kids are already $50,000 in debt?

patisan hacks like you think other people think like you. lol..

the president outpolls romney in every aspect except the economy. and even on that, it's pretty close.

romney's likeability ratings are horrible (rightfully so) and the president has something like a 40% lead among hispanics and a double digit lead among women. he even has a 10 point lead among independents.

I am soooo...curious.

You're too smart to vote for the empty suit....
...is it going to be Romney, or skip-it?


C'mon....'fess up.....

i would never vote for anyone who thinks paul ryan has an acceptable plan. one, i might add, the catholic church thinks is "immoral".

i would never vote for anyone who thinks birth control raises issues of 'personhood'.

i would never vote for anyone who doesn't know what they think of the lily ledbetter law.

i would never vote for anyone who's thinks it would be appropriate at this juncture for us to start bomb bomb bomb-ing iran...

i would never vote for anyone who thinks shutting down planned parenthood, which provides huge numbers of women with basic care, is ok.

i think you're looking at romney's suit... that seems to be the one that's empty. there's nothing filling it except for what he thinks is going to help him with the fringers in the GOP 'base'.

and you can't tell me you think romney believes a word of what he says... the guy who started romneycare and pushed it as a federal program is suddenly morally offended by it?

heck, santorum is nuts, but at least he believes his own nonsense.
 
I didn't say I wanted to do a scientific poll

My comment was based on my prefference for discussing poll and poll analysis with folks who don't just spew profanity and personal insults at people who disagree with them.

And yet what do you do, insult the guy who made the thread to talk about polls in without insulting anyone in his first post :lol:


message board Nate Silver wannbee
 
OK, how do you wanna tackle it?

you're the one who had the comment. perhaps you should work that out. some of us enjoy discussing this issue... nate silver or not.

I didn't say I wanted to do a scientific poll

My comment was based on my prefference for discussing poll and poll analysis with folks who don't just spew profanity and personal insults at people who disagree with them.

i thought the concept of this thread was a good one. *shrug*... a nonpartisan discussion about polling, results, methodology and outcomes for the statistics geek in us.

but a couple of the people here like to make everything about partisanship.
 
and when they take polls, do they only call landlines? or have they been able to poll those who only use cell phones?

it's an excellent point. If you only use landlines you will generally only reach older people who will tend to be Republican. That's been an issue of debate for several years. A lot of the crosstabs will tell you how many landlines and how many cell phones were reached but it's different for every agency and it can sometimes be tricky to find out. I know Rasmussen and Gallup use both. Both of them have a computer generated random dialing system that polls both landlines and cell phones.
 
you're the one who had the comment. perhaps you should work that out. some of us enjoy discussing this issue... nate silver or not.

I didn't say I wanted to do a scientific poll

My comment was based on my prefference for discussing poll and poll analysis with folks who don't just spew profanity and personal insults at people who disagree with them.

i thought the concept of this thread was a good one. *shrug*

You're right - I'm wrong. I'm holding a grudge against the way I saw this poster respond to someone else in a different thread.

And I'm doing exactly what he did.

I apologize to all - especially OP - for doing what I dislike most. I'll ban myself for a bit and try to come back a better poster.
 

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