The Pelosi premium...

[Charles_Main]

I admit, environmentalism is probably one reason she is against drilling. Call me a moron, but the lack of evidence that the oil companies aren't out to screw us could be another.

Let who vote, Charles? And why?

Wait so when it comes to people you want them presumed innocent, but when it comes to Oil companies you need proof they are not out to screw us before they can drill? Ok IC. To me it is simple we use 12 million barrels of foreign oil a day, and I would like to lower that number. there are serveral ways to do that, conserving, Alternatives, and Drilling for our own oil. I want us to do them ALL!!!


You have to ask, let a vote on Drilling of shore come to the floor of congress. That is all I want. Pelosi Knows she does not have the votes to stop it, so she is using here power as speaker to block it. That is being and obstructionist.

 

[jreeves]

QUOTE=Care4all;738426]no, but oil and oil byproducts such as gasoline are the biggest polluters of air quality....

now, maybe i missed something....but what exactly is nancy doing that is going to send us in to an economic depression? A tad melodramatic, no? lol

Care[/QUOTE]



770 Billion dollars go to foreign nations, look as though we could knock that number down a little by drilling here at home. Not to mention what the extra tax revenue it would create for the US government. Helping us balance the national budget....Don't think those things would improve the US economy?

 

[jreeves]

How do you THINK they are going to get the oil off of florida near the continental shelf to a refinery? we don't have pipelines out there? they will load it on to oil barges and ship it to the coast.

Shoot, the oil spill just two weeks ago on the mississippi cost us 250 million dollars a day in lost revenues because of that spill....let alone the detrimental affects on the people and the environment...

Regardless, oil would have to be shipped in from somewhere else, correct? So how does drilling at home put us at any more danger than shipping it from Saudi Arabia?

 

[Care4all]

=jreeves;738454]QUOTE=Care4all;738426]no, but oil and oil byproducts such as gasoline are the biggest polluters of air quality....

now, maybe i missed something....but what exactly is nancy doing that is going to send us in to an economic depression? A tad melodramatic, no? lol

Care

View attachment 5713

770 Billion dollars go to foreign nations, look as though we could knock that number down a little by drilling here at home. Not to mention what the extra tax revenue it would create for the US government. Helping us balance the national budget....Don't think those things would improve the US economy?

we have 3%-4% or the world's oil.....3% reeves....if we drill every drop, excluding shale which is a completely different process and not cost affective or good for the environment because it can spoil our drinking water if done uncarefully.

We as a country uses 27% of the world's oil supply....china uses 6% i believe, though i acknowledge this is growing rapidly for china.

I believe the point is, that unless we go head over heels for alternative, clean fuels and conserve like crazy with our oil use, we will ALWAYS BE SENDING at least 500 billion overseas I'm afraid, untill we do what is right and expedite other than oil energy sources.

We do not have refineries to refine the oil either....not even enough for the oil we use now....gasoline would be CHEAPER if we did have more refineries which is not good for their profits, thus no new refineries and reduction in them over the past few decades....

also, every time there is a forecasted hurricane going in to the gulf, stupid oil prices go thru the roof, and even if the rigs are not damaged the price never comes down...the gulf is an excuse to bring oil prices higher it seems....

I am not against opening up other drilling areas....I am against opening up florida for drilling just 50 miles off the coast....being a past floridian for 20 years, their coasts are their gold and i would hate to see anything happen to their healthy tourist and fishing industries....i would hate to see a ''Katrina like situation" there...with oil spills all over the place, poisoning their waters and shores.....

There are no measuarable plusses to continue to go head over heels for the oil corps or industry....

btw, why would it be more taxes for us if the oil business gets their oil from here vs. Iraq? is what they get from iraq tax exempt of something, even though they are American companies?

Care

 

[jreeves]

we have 3%-4% or the world's oil.....3% reeves....if we drill every drop, excluding shale which is a completely different process and not cost affective or good for the environment because it can spoil our drinking water if done uncarefully.

We as a country uses 27% of the world's oil supply....china uses 6% i believe, though i acknowledge this is growing rapidly for china.

I believe the point is, that unless we go head over heels for alternative, clean fuels and conserve like crazy with our oil use, we will ALWAYS BE SENDING at least 500 billion overseas I'm afraid, untill we do what is right and expedite other than oil energy sources.

We do not have refineries to refine the oil either....not even enough for the oil we use now....gasoline would be CHEAPER if we did have more refineries which is not good for their profits, thus no new refineries and reduction in them over the past few decades....

also, every time there is a forecasted hurricane going in to the gulf, stupid oil prices go thru the roof, and even if the rigs are not damaged the price never comes down...the gulf is an excuse to bring oil prices higher it seems....

I am not against opening up other drilling areas....I am against opening up florida for drilling just 50 miles off the coast....being a past floridian for 20 years, their coasts are their gold and i would hate to see anything happen to their healthy tourist and fishing industries....i would hate to see a ''Katrina like situation" there...with oil spills all over the place, poisoning their waters and shores.....

There are no measuarable plusses to continue to go head over heels for the oil corps or industry....

btw, why would it be more taxes for us if the oil business gets their oil from here vs. Iraq? is what they get from iraq tax exempt of something, even though they are American companies?

Care

I was glad to see that. Look there are tons of oil that hasn't been discovered yet in the OCS and other places for that matter. Here's just one such discovery of undiscovered oil.
USGS Fact Sheet 2008-3021: Assessment of Undiscovered Oil Resources in the Devonian-Mississippian Bakken Formation, Williston Basin Province, Montana and North Dakota, 2008
Using a geology-based assessment methodology, the U.S. Geological Survey estimated mean undiscovered volumes of 3.65 billion barrels of oil, 1.85 trillion cubic feet of associated/dissolved natural gas, and 148 million barrels of natural gas liquids in the Bakken Formation of the Williston Basin Province, Montana and North Dakota.

The point is yes we know that our known undrilled reserves only account for 3% of the world's oil. But what else lies out there that is undiscovered, we will never know until we allow exploratory drilling and geological surveys. Which Pelosi and Democrats have blocked...

I don't think anybody is suggesting drilling within 50 miles of the coast, I may be wrong though. I seem to remember 150 miles offshore but again I could be wrong. There isn't going to be oil spills all over the place, drilling actually has a good recent record of preventing oil spills.

The new taxes would come from this.....

Oil companies also pay taxes to governments for the right to extract oil from public lands and waters. For example, the federal government has collected a total of $48.8 billion in royalty payments from oil companies in exchange for their ability to explore and drill in the U.S. outer continental shelf. Oil companies also pay severance taxes to state governments for the right to drill on state lands. Unfortunately, complete data on state severance tax collections for the period is not available at this time.

The Tax Foundation - Oil Company Profits and Tax Collections: Does the U.S. Need a New Windfall Profits Tax?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

we have 3%-4% or the world's oil.....3% reeves....if we drill every drop, excluding shale which is a completely different process and not cost affective or good for the environment because it can spoil our drinking water if done uncarefully.

We as a country uses 27% of the world's oil supply....china uses 6% i believe, though i acknowledge this is growing rapidly for china.

I believe the point is, that unless we go head over heels for alternative, clean fuels and conserve like crazy with our oil use, we will ALWAYS BE SENDING at least 500 billion overseas I'm afraid, untill we do what is right and expedite other than oil energy sources.

We do not have refineries to refine the oil either....not even enough for the oil we use now....gasoline would be CHEAPER if we did have more refineries which is not good for their profits, thus no new refineries and reduction in them over the past few decades....

also, every time there is a forecasted hurricane going in to the gulf, stupid oil prices go thru the roof, and even if the rigs are not damaged the price never comes down...the gulf is an excuse to bring oil prices higher it seems....

I am not against opening up other drilling areas....I am against opening up florida for drilling just 50 miles off the coast....being a past floridian for 20 years, their coasts are their gold and i would hate to see anything happen to their healthy tourist and fishing industries....i would hate to see a ''Katrina like situation" there...with oil spills all over the place, poisoning their waters and shores.....

There are no measuarable plusses to continue to go head over heels for the oil corps or industry....

btw, why would it be more taxes for us if the oil business gets their oil from here vs. Iraq? is what they get from iraq tax exempt of something, even though they are American companies?

Care

Oil leases from the Government require that the company pay 12.5 to 16.5 percent of the money they receive from producing wells. Thus any NEW wells would gain money for the Government, both from the lease and the successful wells. Currently 8 BILLION dollars is collected in revenue from the Gulf region ( which includes the Atlantic) for active wells.

 

[Ravi]

Oil leases from the Government require that the company pay 12.5 to 16.5 percent of the money they receive from producing wells. Thus any NEW wells would gain money for the Government, both from the lease and the successful wells. Currently 8 BILLION dollars is collected in revenue from the Gulf region ( which includes the Atlantic) for active wells.

Are you sure about that? You seem to be forgetting that the oil companies aren't paying much if anything in the way of royalties.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/business/14oil.html

Back when oil was actually selling at a reasonable price, Clinton came up with the Royalty Relief program to encourage oil companies to drill. But now that oil companies are making a killing every quarter, they shouldn't be getting out of paying the royalties...and yet, the Republicans are perfectly happy to let them.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Are you sure about that? You seem to be forgetting that the oil companies aren't paying much if anything in the way of royalties.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/business/14oil.html

Back when oil was actually selling at a reasonable price, Clinton came up with the Royalty Relief program to encourage oil companies to drill. But now that oil companies are making a killing every quarter, they shouldn't be getting out of paying the royalties...and yet, the Republicans are perfectly happy to let them.

The amount for a barrel of oil is way past the low end to trigger no royalties, That is in my previous post with a link on this or another thread. As is Natural Gas. Those incentives were there to encourage companies to drill in less profitable areas. Perhaps you should research a little more?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ohh look a KEY part of your article you seem to have missed.

The government does not disclose how much individual companies benefit from the incentives, and most companies refuse to disclose either how much they pay in royalties or how much they are allowed to avoid.

Nothing more than fear mongering. The article I posted had the cutoffs and they were a very low amount, further as the article indicates one Company is actually trying to raise the cap, if it is so generous why would they need to do that?

I suggest in future you actually read ALL your articles you use as fact and proof.

 

[Ravi]

further as the article indicates one Company is actually trying to raise the cap, if it is so generous why would they need to do that?

Is that a serious question? I'm sure you are at least smart enough to realize that they want to pay no tax at all.

If Kerr-McGee is successful, administration projections indicate that about 80 percent of all oil and gas from federal waters in the Gulf of Mexico would be royalty-free.

That pretty much puts the kibosh on your silly pander to fattening government coffers.

 

[editec]

Just let them vote Nancy. I am so sick of them acting like they know best, and they have to show us the way.

FYI

Nancy did NOT stop anyone from voting, Charles.

The Republicans did.

They filbustered to prevent the energy bill from being voted upon, because the bill before their consideration did NOT include drilling provisions that the R's wanted.

 

[Care4all]

If Kerr-McGee is successful, administration projections indicate that about 80 percent of all oil and gas from federal waters in the Gulf of Mexico would be royalty-free

just wonderful! NOT!

well, imo, this certainly should not happen....we should get royalties from them...and if it is a state getting royalty money, it should be spit among the citizens of that state, like they do in alaska, in my opinion....

care

 

[busara]

How many species became extinct prior to human existence?

We can be be evironmentally responsible AND drill for oil. The idea that they are mutually exclusive endeavors is crap.

At which point do we put OUR survival above other species? 85% of our production capablility STILL lies untouched. When you think that we used to supply the world and ourselves with 15% of our capability, what's that saying?

It says we're dependent on foreign nations for oil because we allow extremists to cut our own throats.

I would like to see the link that says that the dying off of species is to do with drilling?

i was showing where scientists said species were rapidly becoming extinct due to human activity. those includes many activities, not just drilling. the problem is the actual use of the fuels which caused pollution, etc. and nowhere did anyone say we should kill off ourselves so other species can live. but we can live and be more environmentally friendly. like paris hilton said, drill with environmental safeguards
but thats just one example.

 

[busara]

just wonderful! NOT!

well, imo, this certainly should not happen....we should get royalties from them...and if it is a state getting royalty money, it should be spit among the citizens of that state, like they do in alaska, in my opinion....

care

remove the federal ban and let the states decide, and profit from it.

 

[Jeepers]

Just let them vote Nancy. I am so sick of them acting like they know best, and they have to show us the way.

LOL.. really.. your sick of 1.5 years of Nancy... Well you better stock up on tums my friend cause the dems are going to get a mandate to run roughshot all over your republican asses for the next term or four...

 

[Care4all]

the republicans stopped the vote on the democratic energy plan via a form of filibustering, nancy did not stop this vote....the procedural moves by repubs did.....

 

[busara]

the republicans stopped the vote on the democratic energy plan via a form of filibustering, nancy did not stop this vote....the procedural moves by repubs did.....

you got to hand it to them, it was a nice move. block the bill you dont like, then stay and debate energy while the dems go on vacation to make it look like they are doing nothing. i wont get into the merits of the bill, but it is some nice maneuvering by the repubs

 

[Ravi]

Yes, you've got to hand it to the Repubs. They are really good at fooling the American public.

 

[Care4all]

you got to hand it to them, it was a nice move. block the bill you dont like, then stay and debate energy while the dems go on vacation to make it look like they are doing nothing. i wont get into the merits of the bill, but it is some nice maneuvering by the repubs

The repubs EXCEL at this kind of crap imho!

Dems were completely SQUASHED for 6 of the last 8 years with the republican agenda being shoved down the Dem's throats, not giving them any opportunities to address the Dem's concerns or legislation....

What goes around comes around...sadly.

it is a shame that it comes down to this kind of political posturing and pettiness....

 

[editec]

How many species became extinct prior to human existence?

Pelosi's concern not about extinction of the human species. It's not about just drilling for oil, either.

We can be be evironmentally responsible AND drill for oil. The idea that they are mutually exclusive endeavors is crap.

Yes, we probably can.

At which point do we put OUR survival above other species? 85% of our production capablility STILL lies untouched. When you think that we used to supply the world and ourselves with 15% of our capability, what's that saying?

At every point.

Still, this species needs to begin eschewing burning fossil fuels as our primary energy source.

That was her point, although I agree with many of you that she expressed herself in a way which seems silly sans the context in which it was said.

We ALL say a lot of things that people can take out of context and fault as preposterous, don't we?

Framing arguments based on such intellectual gaming is dishonest, but it does make for some interesting debates.