The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[rylah]

.
The Israeli government was formed with the disapproval of the vast majority of the population.

The vast majority that disproved of the independence was created by hostile ways, against the will of the indigenous nation.

If Britain was to follow her legal obligations Jews would form a majority and give refuge to millions. They sabotaged it , all while allowing Arabs virtually free unrestricted movement.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I will say it once again (see Posting #2895), the State of Israel was: Proclaimed by the "National Council for the Jewish State." This action was a form of self-determination. The new State of Israel established and defended its territorial integrity and sovereignty.

The Israeli Declaration of Independence,[note 1] formally the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, was proclaimed on 14 May 1948 (5 Iyar 5708) by David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[2][3] and Chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine.[4] It declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel,

Israeli Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia​

It was ratified by the National Council for the Jewish State.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The establishment of the state was NOT a unilateral move. It was fully coordinated with the UN Palestine Commission

Link?

 

[P F Tinmore]

.
The Israeli government was formed with the disapproval of the vast majority of the population.

The vast majority that disproved of the independence was created by hostile ways, against the will of the indigenous nation.

If Britain was to follow her legal obligations Jews would form a majority and give refuge to millions. They sabotaged it , all while allowing Arabs virtually free unrestricted movement.

Yeah, whatever.

 

[rylah]

.
The Israeli government was formed with the disapproval of the vast majority of the population.

The vast majority that disproved of the independence was created by hostile ways, against the will of the indigenous nation.

If Britain was to follow her legal obligations Jews would form a majority and give refuge to millions. They sabotaged it , all while allowing Arabs virtually free unrestricted movement.

Yeah, whatever.

Is that because You live on land that once belonged to a nation, now vastly reduced by Your own foreign majority?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not quite sure exactly who teaches you this stuff, but you should ask for your money back.

I will say it once again (see Posting #2895), the State of Israel was: Proclaimed by the "National Council for the Jewish State." This action was a form of self-determination. The new State of Israel established and defended its territorial integrity and sovereignty.

The Israeli Declaration of Independence,[note 1] formally the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, was proclaimed on 14 May 1948 (5 Iyar 5708) by David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[2][3] and Chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine.[4] It declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel,

Israeli Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia​

It was ratified by the National Council for the Jewish State.

(COMMENT)

At the 14/15 May 1948 (Mid-night) and the transmission of the Diplomatic Cable; prior to the transmission the Jewish Agency and the National Council were considered the representative Jewish Authority in Palestine. After the cable transmission, the Jewish Authority transferred to the twin organizations of the Provisional State Council" and the "Provisional Government."

While David Ben-Gurion heald office in both the WZO and the Jewish Agency, neither was an official arm of the Government of Palestine (British Civil Administration) or the Provisional Government (Israel). This is not dissimilar to the case where President Trump is a member of the GOP, the GOP is not a government organization with any official authority. You are mixing apples and oranges.

It was ratified by the National Council for the Jewish State.

(COMMENT)

If you go back and read the second bullet down, I think you will find that I said:

✪ The State of Israel was created when the "National Council for the Jewish State:"​

I think you will find that I almost used the same verbiage.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

The foreign state of Britain blocked the Palestinian's right to self determination until 1948. Then the foreign "state" of Israel has blocked it since then.

The State of Britain had an obligation to uphold the decisions of the Allied Powers including the decision to assist with the self-determination of the Jewish Palestinians in their homeland to create a National Home (State). The Arab Palestinians and their foreign allies tried to block the formation of self-determination by the Jewish Palestinians.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

See insert S/747 First Third, second line.

The establishment of the state was NOT a unilateral move. It was fully coordinated with the UN Palestine Commission

Link?

(COMMENT)

It is a matter of record; and is a permanent part of the UN Membership Packet (recommended approved by the Security Council). UNSC 69.

V/R
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not quite sure exactly who teaches you this stuff, but you should ask for your money back.

I will say it once again (see Posting #2895), the State of Israel was: Proclaimed by the "National Council for the Jewish State." This action was a form of self-determination. The new State of Israel established and defended its territorial integrity and sovereignty.

The Israeli Declaration of Independence,[note 1] formally the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, was proclaimed on 14 May 1948 (5 Iyar 5708) by David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[2][3] and Chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine.[4] It declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel,

Israeli Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia​

It was ratified by the National Council for the Jewish State.

(COMMENT)

At the 14/15 May 1948 (Mid-night) and the transmission of the Diplomatic Cable; prior to the transmission the Jewish Agency and the National Council were considered the representative Jewish Authority in Palestine. After the cable transmission, the Jewish Authority transferred to the twin organizations of the Provisional State Council" and the "Provisional Government."

While David Ben-Gurion heald office in both the WZO and the Jewish Agency, neither was an official arm of the Government of Palestine (British Civil Administration) or the Provisional Government (Israel). This is not dissimilar to the case where President Trump is a member of the GOP, the GOP is not a government organization with any official authority. You are mixing apples and oranges.

It was ratified by the National Council for the Jewish State.

(COMMENT)

If you go back and read the second bullet down, I think you will find that I said:

✪ The State of Israel was created when the "National Council for the Jewish State:"​

I think you will find that I almost used the same verbiage.

View attachment 203973

Most Respectfully,
R

We may be splitting hairs here. The WZO and the Jewish Agency were the driving forces behind the Zionist colonial project.

While David Ben-Gurion heald office in both the WZO and the Jewish Agency, neither was an official arm of the Government of Palestine (British Civil Administration) or the Provisional Government (Israel).

What about the other issues is my post?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

See insert S/747 First Third, second line.

The establishment of the state was NOT a unilateral move. It was fully coordinated with the UN Palestine Commission

Link?

(COMMENT)

It is a matter of record; and is a permanent part of the UN Membership Packet (recommended approved by the Security Council). UNSC 69.

V/R
R

This has nothing to do with the UNPC.

 

[rylah]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not quite sure exactly who teaches you this stuff, but you should ask for your money back.

I will say it once again (see Posting #2895), the State of Israel was: Proclaimed by the "National Council for the Jewish State." This action was a form of self-determination. The new State of Israel established and defended its territorial integrity and sovereignty.

The Israeli Declaration of Independence,[note 1] formally the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, was proclaimed on 14 May 1948 (5 Iyar 5708) by David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[2][3] and Chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine.[4] It declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel,

Israeli Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia​

It was ratified by the National Council for the Jewish State.

(COMMENT)

At the 14/15 May 1948 (Mid-night) and the transmission of the Diplomatic Cable; prior to the transmission the Jewish Agency and the National Council were considered the representative Jewish Authority in Palestine. After the cable transmission, the Jewish Authority transferred to the twin organizations of the Provisional State Council" and the "Provisional Government."

While David Ben-Gurion heald office in both the WZO and the Jewish Agency, neither was an official arm of the Government of Palestine (British Civil Administration) or the Provisional Government (Israel). This is not dissimilar to the case where President Trump is a member of the GOP, the GOP is not a government organization with any official authority. You are mixing apples and oranges.

It was ratified by the National Council for the Jewish State.

(COMMENT)

If you go back and read the second bullet down, I think you will find that I said:

✪ The State of Israel was created when the "National Council for the Jewish State:"​

I think you will find that I almost used the same verbiage.

View attachment 203973

Most Respectfully,
R

We may be splitting hairs here. The WZO and the Jewish Agency were the driving forces behind the Zionist colonial project.

While David Ben-Gurion heald office in both the WZO and the Jewish Agency, neither was an official arm of the Government of Palestine (British Civil Administration) or the Provisional Government (Israel).

What about the other issues is my post?

They were the representative tools of the sovereign nation.
A sovereign nation can't colonize itself.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not quite sure exactly who teaches you this stuff, but you should ask for your money back.

I will say it once again (see Posting #2895), the State of Israel was: Proclaimed by the "National Council for the Jewish State." This action was a form of self-determination. The new State of Israel established and defended its territorial integrity and sovereignty.

The Israeli Declaration of Independence,[note 1] formally the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, was proclaimed on 14 May 1948 (5 Iyar 5708) by David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[2][3] and Chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine.[4] It declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel,

Israeli Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia​

It was ratified by the National Council for the Jewish State.

(COMMENT)

At the 14/15 May 1948 (Mid-night) and the transmission of the Diplomatic Cable; prior to the transmission the Jewish Agency and the National Council were considered the representative Jewish Authority in Palestine. After the cable transmission, the Jewish Authority transferred to the twin organizations of the Provisional State Council" and the "Provisional Government."

While David Ben-Gurion heald office in both the WZO and the Jewish Agency, neither was an official arm of the Government of Palestine (British Civil Administration) or the Provisional Government (Israel). This is not dissimilar to the case where President Trump is a member of the GOP, the GOP is not a government organization with any official authority. You are mixing apples and oranges.

It was ratified by the National Council for the Jewish State.

(COMMENT)

If you go back and read the second bullet down, I think you will find that I said:

✪ The State of Israel was created when the "National Council for the Jewish State:"​

I think you will find that I almost used the same verbiage.

View attachment 203973

Most Respectfully,
R

We may be splitting hairs here. The WZO and the Jewish Agency were the driving forces behind the Zionist colonial project.

While David Ben-Gurion heald office in both the WZO and the Jewish Agency, neither was an official arm of the Government of Palestine (British Civil Administration) or the Provisional Government (Israel).

What about the other issues is my post?

They were the representative tools of the sovereign nation.
A sovereign nation can't colonize itself.

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, help me out here. Be specific.

What is your point?

I'm not a mystic. I can't read minds. And I don't see your logic.

What is it that you want to know. And make it a real question; not one that makes crazy assumptions.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not quite sure exactly who teaches you this stuff, but you should ask for your money back.

I will say it once again (see Posting #2895), the State of Israel was: Proclaimed by the "National Council for the Jewish State." This action was a form of self-determination. The new State of Israel established and defended its territorial integrity and sovereignty.

The Israeli Declaration of Independence,[note 1] formally the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, was proclaimed on 14 May 1948 (5 Iyar 5708) by David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[2][3] and Chairman of the Jewish Agency for Palestine.[4] It declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel,

Israeli Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia​

It was ratified by the National Council for the Jewish State.

(COMMENT)

At the 14/15 May 1948 (Mid-night) and the transmission of the Diplomatic Cable; prior to the transmission the Jewish Agency and the National Council were considered the representative Jewish Authority in Palestine. After the cable transmission, the Jewish Authority transferred to the twin organizations of the Provisional State Council" and the "Provisional Government."

While David Ben-Gurion heald office in both the WZO and the Jewish Agency, neither was an official arm of the Government of Palestine (British Civil Administration) or the Provisional Government (Israel). This is not dissimilar to the case where President Trump is a member of the GOP, the GOP is not a government organization with any official authority. You are mixing apples and oranges.

It was ratified by the National Council for the Jewish State.

(COMMENT)

If you go back and read the second bullet down, I think you will find that I said:

✪ The State of Israel was created when the "National Council for the Jewish State:"​

I think you will find that I almost used the same verbiage.

View attachment 203973

Most Respectfully,
R

We may be splitting hairs here. The WZO and the Jewish Agency were the driving forces behind the Zionist colonial project.

While David Ben-Gurion heald office in both the WZO and the Jewish Agency, neither was an official arm of the Government of Palestine (British Civil Administration) or the Provisional Government (Israel).

What about the other issues is my post?

They were the representative tools of the sovereign nation.
A sovereign nation can't colonize itself.

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

Yet You run like a scared duck with no argument in return.
Typical Palestinian failure to address simple realities.

 

[Shusha]

A sovereign nation can't colonize itself.

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

Peoples seeking re-constituted self-determination in their homeland can't colonize themselves either.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Global Empire - The Balfour Declaration: A Blood-Drenched Centenary

 

[rylah]

Global Empire - The Balfour Declaration: A Blood-Drenched Centenary

I find this video quiet insightful, lots of facts but also lots of misconceptions, mainly because they leave out too much history of the decades that preceded the Balfour Declaration.

The conflict didn't start with the declaration, neither did Zionism.
Just to balance it out here's a number of key points they left out:

1. Zionism was already an organized and active movement, without it already working on the ground for decades before their invasion, they wouldn't even consider relying on it as a stepping stone for whatever interests they envisioned. Immigrant and local Jews had already started to re-purchase land, build new neighborhoods and towns, thus actively transforming the whole country decades before the British invasion.

2. Although much of this history is overshadowed by the horrors of the Holocaust,
and the suffering of Jews in the European countries, Arab Pogroms against Jews were taking place simultaneously in the middle eastern countries, and specifically the Pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine.

3.Israel bears no responsibility for British interests or actions, Israel is neither a British representative nor its' vassal. Israelis fought both the Arab and British invasion at the same time.
On the other hand the Arabs in Palestine did attempt to ceede the land and sabotage the formation of an independent nation in favor of a bigger Arab empire, ruled by the royals from Mecca.

4. The year Hertzl was born Palestinian Jews had already built new neighborhoods and towns, and coordinated the creation of new economic platforms. It was all paid by the Jews of all diaspora. He neither started it nor was the leading figure. Hertzl was a representative who's job was to moderate the discussion between the many opinions in the Jewish community and translate it into the language of the international politics.
Britain or not, Holocaust or not - Palestinian Jews were already organizing around a vision of an independent country, and it was partially inspired by the Greek-Ottoman conflict of the 19th century.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But mainly they solidify Israel position by referring to 'Palestinians" as exclusively Arabs,
there's Your whole problem and reason for why Jews fought for independence in the first place.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The channel has decided to dedicate the 1948 two programmes. One told about them from the perspective of living in Palestine-Arabs, the second – from the point of view of the Jewish Yishuv. “Al Arabiya” reported that the issue must be approached without ideological blinders.

(full article online)

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2018/07/palestinians-freak-out-over-balanced.html

 

[Shusha]

Global Empire - The Balfour Declaration: A Blood-Drenched Centenary

He keeps talking about the "creation" of a Jewish homeland. Right away he is misleading. The Jewish homeland ALREADY EXISTED. While the Jewish people did not self-determination, self-government or sovereignty over that homeland -- that fact that is IS the homeland of the Jewish people is indisputable.

"There were some plans to create a Jewish homeland out of the rift valley of Kenya or even Madagascar, but it was rejected because the Jewish people had these ideas of past (vague hand wave)... "Seriously? I mean, really, seriously? How about if we make a homeland for the Palestinians in Mongolia? After all...these "ideas of the past" aren't even worth finishing the freaking sentence over, right?

..."but just going to live with the Palestinian people...that was encompassed in the Palestinian congresses ...they state quite clearly that anyone, those who have lived in Palestine, Mizrahi, Arab Jews, and those people who lived there, that those people should have full rights...it contrasts with the Balfour Declaration ... and the non-Jewish community having civic and religious rights but they don't talk about having political rights and rights to self-determination and national identity...is no where expressed in there...in contrast to that the Palestinian Congress quite explicitly stated that those people who lived there should have rights to citizenship so there was very much a contrast." Wait, what? So he is saying that the Arabs offered MORE rights to the Jewish people than the Jewish people offered to them? That the Arab people offered the Jewish people political rights, rights to self-determination and rights to national identity? Someone PAH-LEESE give me a link to that.

Oh, there we go, he corrects it in the next sentence -- he says that there was a conflict between the Eastern European Jews (who wanted political rights, rights to self-determination and rights to national identity) with the Jews who were a small religious sect, completely integrated into the (Arabic) community. In other words, to clarify the double speak -- we would like to offer Jews political rights, rights to self-determination and rights to national identity, well, as long as you don't actually WANT any of those things. Sheesh.

Oh and let's throw in a smear -- Eastern European Jews are, you know, distasteful.

Oh, and then he goes into a lovely comment about how Jewish people can't really be both ethnically Jewish and also be loyal to whatever country they find themselves in, therefore, they renounce their "Jewishness" in favor of their nationality. Can we just level THAT playing field, please? From now on, people of Palestinian heritage who have another nationality (nearly all of them in the diaspora) are not "really" Palestinian any more.

Okay, I give up on that one.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Often described as the founder of Zionism’s “right-wing,” Jabotinsky was a controversial personality during his lifetime, in large part due to his insistence on the now widely-accepted notion that Jews have the right and obligation to defend themselves. The study of his life and thought has been the subject of increased attention in recent years, which seems to be indicative of a thirst for something that is lacking in the current Jewish political and cultural milieu.

Other leaders in the Zionist movement called for restraint in response to vicious Arab attacks on Jewish civilians in the Land of Israel in the decades leading up to the establishment of the state. They preached patience in the face of the British betrayals that pushed its founding further and further off even as the storm clouds of the Shoah began to form in Europe.

In contrast, Jabotinsky boldly and unabashedly called for Jewish self-defense, evacuation of the Jews of Europe for resettlement in their ancient homeland, and the establishment of Jewish sovereignty on both sides of the Jordan River. In other words, he called for victory.


Despite being smeared as an extremist and mocked as an unrealistic dreamer, Jabotinsky was undeterred. He inherently knew that while Jews have HaTikvah, Arabs have their own “hope” as well, one which is focused on the destruction of the Jewish State, whatever its size.

In 1923 he introduced a concept known as “The Iron Wall,” which demonstrated an understanding that the main obstacle to peace was the blanket Arab refusal to accept the right of Jews to establish a Jewish State in the Land of Israel. He keenly observed that peace would not be possible so long as the Arabs believe that they have a chance to put an end to that state and establish an Arab one in its place.

Contrast this with the constant refrain we hear from the false peace-peddlers of our time who call for endless compromises with an enemy that has not forsaken its dream of destroying Israel. “You don’t make peace with your friends, you make peace with your enemies,” they tell us. To this misplaced slogan, we should respond with what thousands of years of human history have demonstrated, “You don’t make peace with your enemies, you make peace with your former enemies.” To cite an obvious example, peace with Germany and Japan would not have been possible at the conclusion of World War II had those two nations not given up on the idea that they could defeat the Allies.

(full article online)

Jabotinsky and Israeli victory