The Need For More US Troops is a Taboo Topic

onedomino

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Sep 14, 2004
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Would you support a draft if it is necessary to meet US Army manpower needs?

Need for More Troops a Taboo Topic
BY DAVID WOOD
NEWHOUSE NEWS SERVICE
September 29, 2004

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/pols29e_20040929.htm

WASHINGTON -- Nearly everyone -- generals, Pentagon strategists, politicians and soldiers -- agrees the United States needs more troops, the key to waging war against Muslim insurgents in Iraq and around the world.
But on the campaign trail, President George W. Bush and his Democratic rival, Sen. John Kerry, hardly address the need to put more American youths in uniform.
Although both support a slightly larger military, neither Bush nor Kerry has mentioned the added cost or how he would press tens of thousands more young Americans into service.
Under Bush, the Army is quietly working to add 30,000 soldiers to its active-duty force of half a million. Kerry has proposed adding 40,000 troops. That's less than half what's needed, most experts agree: 100,000 new soldiers. And they are needed quickly. The cost could top $10 billion a year.
"The U.S. military has been heroic and resilient -- but strategically, they are woefully inadequate for the threat we are facing," said Eliot Cohen, director of strategic studies at Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies.
A study by the Defense Science Board, a Pentagon advisory group, has concluded that even with another 30,000 troops, the current force cannot meet "our current and projected global stabilization commitments."
Within the Army, there is deep concern that the manpower demands of Iraq and Afghanistan have left the United States with no strategic reserve of ground forces, short of a total mobilization and deployment of all active-duty, reserve and National Guard troops. At present, about 21 percent of the Army reserves and National Guard are mobilized, according to a Sept. 22 Pentagon report.
And the Bush administration's strategy of aggressively promoting global democracy to prevent terrorists from building strongholds in failed nations will require significant new ground forces, said Thomas Donnelly, analyst at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, a Washington think tank.
"In the simplest terms, this requires the expansion of the active-duty component of the U.S. Army," Donnelly said.
Then why don't Bush and Kerry discuss it openly?
"Part of it is muddled thinking," Donnelly said in an interview, "and a reluctance to say that this is a big war and we will be in this for a long time."
Inevitably, some political experts say, mere mention of a larger army reminds voters of the draft -- a hugely unpopular subject for military-age youths and parents, even if the military has discounted the need to conscript young Americans. In May, pollster Peter Hart concluded that 73 percent of today's college students oppose a draft.
"You can't talk about sacrifice in an election year," said Peter Feaver, a political scientist at Duke University who has written about the public's attitudes toward war. "I don't think our electoral system is responsible enough" to make judgments on such technical issues as the number of combat troops needed and how to get them.
That leaves military officials and strategists struggling for solutions.
The top U.S. commander for Iraq, Army Gen. John Abizaid, acknowledged last week that more troops are needed there than the 138,000 U.S. soldiers and Marines now deployed. But he said he hopes the additional manpower could come from allies and from the Iraqi security forces in training.
But efforts to train and equip new Iraqi security forces are lagging far behind schedule, U.S. military officers have said.
 
No. It's bad for troop morale, will turn the country against what needs to be done, and isn't desired by the military at large.

I say we round up as many illegals as we can, males 18 to 25, and let them 'earn' their citizenship. Or they can be deported. I think that's fair.
 
And if they "earn" it as you say, then would you give citizenship to the surviors of the war? Would they also recieve a pension (as many illegals are sending money to families back home)?
 
If thats whats needed i dont think id wait for the draft, id just enlist before hand like many did in WW2. I have no problem serving my country. Wish some other people i know felt the same way.
 
The 'funny' thing is - the 'bring back the draft' bill(s) in congress? They are initiated and purposed by democrats - there is not ONE republican's name on the legislation; every single democrat on the bill(s) is a Kerry Supporter.
 
deaddude said:
And if they "earn" it as you say, then would you give citizenship to the surviors of the war? Would they also recieve a pension (as many illegals are sending money to families back home)?

Even the dead would receive posthumous citizenship, and their children taken care of. But yes, all returning veterans would receive all the rights and privileges associated with full citizenship and full veteran status.
 
Zhukov said:
Even the dead would receive posthumous citizenship, and their children taken care of. But yes, all returning veterans would receive all the rights and privileges associated with full citizenship and full veteran status.

i agree to an extent. in meeting and getting to know so many people in the navy and marines who were born overseas and came to america, i see a dedication and a drive just as great, if not greater than many native born sons/daughters who are in uniform. so i think if the military could make an offer to people overseas to help us fight terrorism in the US army (with the reward of full citizenship and benefits) for 3-5 years, i think the response would be overwhelming. and we'd get 100,000-200,000 damn good new americans out of it.
 
Avatar4321 said:
If thats whats needed i dont think id wait for the draft, id just enlist before hand like many did in WW2. I have no problem serving my country. Wish some other people i know felt the same way.

me too---I'd like to see an all out recuitment effort before a draft however. I doubt anything will happen prior to the election other than scare tactics.
 
No draft is needed. If there is a real threat or we are attacked, there will be a flood of men and women to defend our nation.

Shame on Rangel for proposing a bill to re-instate the draft.
 
deaddude said:
And if they "earn" it as you say, then would you give citizenship to the surviors of the war? Would they also recieve a pension (as many illegals are sending money to families back home)?

Pensions are only earned after many years in the service. You don't get a pension for a 4 or 8 year stint. But there are benifits and they should get them just like any other vet.

Temp. limited citizenship (no vote) should also extend to parents, spouses, children, and siblings too young or too old to serve, assuming they had no criminal history or terrorist ties of course - this would be a huge incentive.

I think Zhukov has a good idea here, but I'd not try to "force" illeagals into it. Rather, I'd make the offer "serve in the US military and you can earn your US citizenship". I'd then setup special areas either at embassies or at boarder crossing points (San Diego, El Paso, ??) and let them apply. If they have no serious relationship to crime or suspected relationship to terrorists, sign um up!

Wade.
 
poebassman said:
No draft is needed. If there is a real threat or we are attacked, there will be a flood of men and women to defend our nation.

Shame on Rangel for proposing a bill to re-instate the draft.

The problem is that we were attacked - and the flood was short lived and now there is a drought!

====================

Zhukov - why don't you write up a proposal, post it here for critique, modify it accordingly, and lets send it to an appropriate pair of Senators (one dem, one republican - two who have shown they can work together in the past).

Wade.
 
As said, this debate is not going to happen before the election, its just too explosive. But I believe that there will be outspoken supporters of a draft sometime in 2005 and we'll see a push to have it re-instated.

The Democrats who are supporting a draft now do so for political reasons. They think that it will make the war even more unpopular, thus securing a Kerry victory.
 
Palestinian Jew said:
As said, this debate is not going to happen before the election, its just too explosive. But I believe that there will be outspoken supporters of a draft sometime in 2005 and we'll see a push to have it re-instated.

The Democrats who are supporting a draft now do so for political reasons. They think that it will make the war even more unpopular, thus securing a Kerry victory.

Your kidding right? You really think the Democrats proposing to re-instate the draft would risk sending young men and women off to war purely for political gain???? SAY IT ISN"T SO!
 
Palestinian Jew said:
The Democrats who are supporting a draft now do so for political reasons. They think that it will make the war even more unpopular, thus securing a Kerry victory.

I think they are trying to make clear the situation -- barring an innovative solution (like Zhukov's) there is no way we can avoid the draft, probably early in 2005. Bush knows this, and I think there is no doubt this is his intention - he is just not honest enough to admit it.

So who's really playing election politics with this issue?

Wade.
 
wade said:
I think they are trying to make clear the situation -- barring an innovative solution (like Zhukov's) there is no way we can avoid the draft, probably early in 2005. Bush knows this, and I think there is no doubt this is his intention - he is just not honest enough to admit it.

So who's really playing election politics with this issue?

Wade.

If the situation is unavoidable as you indicate, that means Kerry will also have to institute the draft if he intends to stay the course in Iraq. Of course, if he does not intend to stay the course, he needs only to pull the troops out.
I don't think Bush will reinstate the draft but there is no way to prove it one way or the other.
 
CSM said:
If the situation is unavoidable as you indicate, that means Kerry will also have to institute the draft if he intends to stay the course in Iraq. Of course, if he does not intend to stay the course, he needs only to pull the troops out.
I don't think Bush will reinstate the draft but there is no way to prove it one way or the other.

As I said, I think it is inevitable, no matter which side wins. The only possible alternative would be some innovative option such as the one suggested by Zhukov, which I think might help but would still not be enough. One way or another we need about 35,000 more combat troops on the ground in Iraq, and that will require something in the range of 100,000-120,000 new troops in total.

Wade.
 
onedomino said:
Well, we won't count on deaddude and nycflasher for any help.


You asked for an opinion; I gave you mine. Why ask if you just want one answer. No I would not support a draft under almost any circumstances, especially in a conflict as controversial as this one. Forcing people to fight for something they don’t believe in strikes me as amoral.
 

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