The Marriage Question

[BDBoop]

I find it absurd that 2 people who are in love would break up over this. What else really matters at the end of the day, other than the 2 of you being in love with each other? Marriage doesn't make you more or less in love no matter how much you might think it does. And I say this as a proponent of marriage.

Because if you don't want it, you don't want it; you don't want it. And if the other party feels like you do, then the whole relationship is going to have this sword hanging over it. "Why won't you marry me?" "What's wrong with me?", etc. It's personalized as a rejection.

And if you're old enough, you've seen that couple that was together for 5-10 years, she finally ended it because it obviously "wasn't going anywhere", and he met and married someone else within the year.

You should know what the person you're about to get into a relationship thinks of marriage before hand. It's obviously an important factor to a lot of people when choosing a mate, so there should be no excuse for being 5 years down the road and being unhappy about your mate not wanting to get married.

But assuming you didn't air that out before hand, how do you just look the person you love in the eye and say I'm leaving because you don't want marriage??? That's ridiculous. You're taking a huge gamble that you'll actually find someone else you love and fit with as much as the one you left.

Many people spend half of their life trying to find the person they love, why would you just throw it away over one issue? Just enjoy being in love and live life.

My assumption (never having been in these shoes) is that staying hurts more than going.

 

[Paulie]

Because if you don't want it, you don't want it; you don't want it. And if the other party feels like you do, then the whole relationship is going to have this sword hanging over it. "Why won't you marry me?" "What's wrong with me?", etc. It's personalized as a rejection.

And if you're old enough, you've seen that couple that was together for 5-10 years, she finally ended it because it obviously "wasn't going anywhere", and he met and married someone else within the year.

You should know what the person you're about to get into a relationship thinks of marriage before hand. It's obviously an important factor to a lot of people when choosing a mate, so there should be no excuse for being 5 years down the road and being unhappy about your mate not wanting to get married.

But assuming you didn't air that out before hand, how do you just look the person you love in the eye and say I'm leaving because you don't want marriage??? That's ridiculous. You're taking a huge gamble that you'll actually find someone else you love and fit with as much as the one you left.

Many people spend half of their life trying to find the person they love, why would you just throw it away over one issue? Just enjoy being in love and live life.

My assumption (never having been in these shoes) is that staying hurts more than going.

If 2 people are in love, and it still hurts somehow, then they aren't really in love. There must be something else going on. I can't imagine how someone could be in love with someone, and then just decide one day that they're going to leave over a lack of marriage.

If the problem is that the man feels uneasy about marriage because of how horrible it can get if it doesn't work out, but the woman REALLY wants to get married that bad, then I don't see why the woman wouldn't say I love you so much and want to marry you so much that I want to do everything it takes to make you as comfortable as possible with it, and offer HIM the prenup idea, and then come to an agreement between each other on how it will all go down in the event that the marriage doesn't work out.

Let me tell you this... Many women aren't ultimately chasing marriage, they're chasing the WEDDING. It's that one day where the woman is a princess and everyone is there to see HER and cherish HER. No one cares about the groom at weddings, it's all about the bride. Women chase that fairy tale, often never really looking beyond it to evaluate what a life of marriage really is.

My ex's best friend got married in 2009, and they divorced in 2010. She just wanted the wedding because she was an insecure person who needed to have that day to make her feel like she was somebody. It's a shame too, because they were a happy couple with 2 children before that and were doing just fine. She was fixing something that wasn't broke, and ironically broke something instead.

 

[BDBoop]

It doesn't happen in a vacuum. There are fights, jabs, talks, rationalizing, begging, pleading, tears; you know. The usual breakdown in the fabric of a relationship. One makes an ultimatum, only this time they really mean it and boom. Gone.

That "I love you so much" smacks of desperation. Having seen myself operating through various relationships, I think yeah. Well, for one thing, god. I'd NEVER stay over a year. Once I knew he was not for marriage, then I would not pursue a relationship.

 

[High_Gravity]

You should know what the person you're about to get into a relationship thinks of marriage before hand. It's obviously an important factor to a lot of people when choosing a mate, so there should be no excuse for being 5 years down the road and being unhappy about your mate not wanting to get married.

But assuming you didn't air that out before hand, how do you just look the person you love in the eye and say I'm leaving because you don't want marriage??? That's ridiculous. You're taking a huge gamble that you'll actually find someone else you love and fit with as much as the one you left.

Many people spend half of their life trying to find the person they love, why would you just throw it away over one issue? Just enjoy being in love and live life.

My assumption (never having been in these shoes) is that staying hurts more than going.

If 2 people are in love, and it still hurts somehow, then they aren't really in love. There must be something else going on. I can't imagine how someone could be in love with someone, and then just decide one day that they're going to leave over a lack of marriage.

If the problem is that the man feels uneasy about marriage because of how horrible it can get if it doesn't work out, but the woman REALLY wants to get married that bad, then I don't see why the woman wouldn't say I love you so much and want to marry you so much that I want to do everything it takes to make you as comfortable as possible with it, and offer HIM the prenup idea, and then come to an agreement between each other on how it will all go down in the event that the marriage doesn't work out.

Let me tell you this... Many women aren't ultimately chasing marriage, they're chasing the WEDDING. It's that one day where the woman is a princess and everyone is there to see HER and cherish HER. No one cares about the groom at weddings, it's all about the bride. Women chase that fairy tale, often never really looking beyond it to evaluate what a life of marriage really is.

My ex's best friend got married in 2009, and they divorced in 2010. She just wanted the wedding because she was an insecure person who needed to have that day to make her feel like she was somebody. It's a shame too, because they were a happy couple with 2 children before that and were doing just fine. She was fixing something that wasn't broke, and ironically broke something instead.

Damn straight you pretty much nailed it, and alot of women are under this illusion that when they get married that their relationship will be better than it was before and they will have their "happily ever after", once they get married and see that nothing has really changed, reality can be quite painful.

 

[BDBoop]

My assumption (never having been in these shoes) is that staying hurts more than going.

If 2 people are in love, and it still hurts somehow, then they aren't really in love. There must be something else going on. I can't imagine how someone could be in love with someone, and then just decide one day that they're going to leave over a lack of marriage.

If the problem is that the man feels uneasy about marriage because of how horrible it can get if it doesn't work out, but the woman REALLY wants to get married that bad, then I don't see why the woman wouldn't say I love you so much and want to marry you so much that I want to do everything it takes to make you as comfortable as possible with it, and offer HIM the prenup idea, and then come to an agreement between each other on how it will all go down in the event that the marriage doesn't work out.

Let me tell you this... Many women aren't ultimately chasing marriage, they're chasing the WEDDING. It's that one day where the woman is a princess and everyone is there to see HER and cherish HER. No one cares about the groom at weddings, it's all about the bride. Women chase that fairy tale, often never really looking beyond it to evaluate what a life of marriage really is.

My ex's best friend got married in 2009, and they divorced in 2010. She just wanted the wedding because she was an insecure person who needed to have that day to make her feel like she was somebody. It's a shame too, because they were a happy couple with 2 children before that and were doing just fine. She was fixing something that wasn't broke, and ironically broke something instead.

Damn straight you pretty much nailed it, and alot of women are under this illusion that when they get married that their relationship will be better than it was before and they will have their "happily ever after", once they get married and see that nothing has really changed, reality can be quite painful.

Which one of us is clueless about women? Because ... seriously not trying to start anything here, but your view of women makes them sound not likable at all. They're cold users, is what I'm hearing. And apparently, they don't think, they just react.

Might I suggest you haven't met any of the worthy ones?

 

[Paulie]

It doesn't happen in a vacuum. There are fights, jabs, talks, rationalizing, begging, pleading, tears; you know. The usual breakdown in the fabric of a relationship. One makes an ultimatum, only this time they really mean it and boom. Gone.

That "I love you so much" smacks of desperation. Having seen myself operating through various relationships, I think yeah. Well, for one thing, god. I'd NEVER stay over a year. Once I knew he was not for marriage, then I would not pursue a relationship.

It would take you that long to know he wasn't for marriage?

It's this simple: You air all that out before getting really involved. If the man says he's into marriage, then you have a REASON for being upset about the relationship if years go by and he's not asking you. At that point you'd know he either lied, or isn't into you enough to make you his wife. In which case I could see leaving.

But if you've been spending a year wondering "is this guy ever gonna marry me? Maybe I should I leave now? I know, I'll give him an ultimatum!" Then you probably weren't all that much in love to begin with.

 

[BDBoop]

It doesn't happen in a vacuum. There are fights, jabs, talks, rationalizing, begging, pleading, tears; you know. The usual breakdown in the fabric of a relationship. One makes an ultimatum, only this time they really mean it and boom. Gone.

That "I love you so much" smacks of desperation. Having seen myself operating through various relationships, I think yeah. Well, for one thing, god. I'd NEVER stay over a year. Once I knew he was not for marriage, then I would not pursue a relationship.

It would take you that long to know he wasn't for marriage?

It's this simple: You air all that out before getting really involved. If the man says he's into marriage, then you have a REASON for being upset about the relationship if years go by and he's not asking you. At that point you'd know he either lied, or isn't into you enough to make you his wife. In which case I could see leaving.

But if you've been spending a year wondering "is this guy ever gonna marry me? Maybe I should I leave now? I know, I'll give him an ultimatum!" Then you probably weren't all that much in love to begin with.

Not me, I'm 53. I'm talking back in the day. Now, it'd be the first date, that being the last.

You keep personalizing this to me. We're not talking about me. I'm married. Granted, he's living with someone else, but my point is - we're not talking about me.

 

[Paulie]

If 2 people are in love, and it still hurts somehow, then they aren't really in love. There must be something else going on. I can't imagine how someone could be in love with someone, and then just decide one day that they're going to leave over a lack of marriage.

If the problem is that the man feels uneasy about marriage because of how horrible it can get if it doesn't work out, but the woman REALLY wants to get married that bad, then I don't see why the woman wouldn't say I love you so much and want to marry you so much that I want to do everything it takes to make you as comfortable as possible with it, and offer HIM the prenup idea, and then come to an agreement between each other on how it will all go down in the event that the marriage doesn't work out.

Let me tell you this... Many women aren't ultimately chasing marriage, they're chasing the WEDDING. It's that one day where the woman is a princess and everyone is there to see HER and cherish HER. No one cares about the groom at weddings, it's all about the bride. Women chase that fairy tale, often never really looking beyond it to evaluate what a life of marriage really is.

My ex's best friend got married in 2009, and they divorced in 2010. She just wanted the wedding because she was an insecure person who needed to have that day to make her feel like she was somebody. It's a shame too, because they were a happy couple with 2 children before that and were doing just fine. She was fixing something that wasn't broke, and ironically broke something instead.

Damn straight you pretty much nailed it, and alot of women are under this illusion that when they get married that their relationship will be better than it was before and they will have their "happily ever after", once they get married and see that nothing has really changed, reality can be quite painful.

Which one of us is clueless about women? Because ... seriously not trying to start anything here, but your view of women makes them sound not likable at all. They're cold users, is what I'm hearing. And apparently, they don't think, they just react.

Might I suggest you haven't met any of the worthy ones?

He's right though. The thought process of the male is typically that he wants to make the woman his wife, make her happy, and commit himself to just her. Most men don't expect anything other than that. Women tend to think something changes after marriage, like it somehow adds even more love to the relationship. When they realize that it doesn't it upsets them and potentially starts affecting their feelings towards their partner.

It's nothing more than just another of the many differences in the way men and woman are wired.

 

[High_Gravity]

If 2 people are in love, and it still hurts somehow, then they aren't really in love. There must be something else going on. I can't imagine how someone could be in love with someone, and then just decide one day that they're going to leave over a lack of marriage.

If the problem is that the man feels uneasy about marriage because of how horrible it can get if it doesn't work out, but the woman REALLY wants to get married that bad, then I don't see why the woman wouldn't say I love you so much and want to marry you so much that I want to do everything it takes to make you as comfortable as possible with it, and offer HIM the prenup idea, and then come to an agreement between each other on how it will all go down in the event that the marriage doesn't work out.

Let me tell you this... Many women aren't ultimately chasing marriage, they're chasing the WEDDING. It's that one day where the woman is a princess and everyone is there to see HER and cherish HER. No one cares about the groom at weddings, it's all about the bride. Women chase that fairy tale, often never really looking beyond it to evaluate what a life of marriage really is.

My ex's best friend got married in 2009, and they divorced in 2010. She just wanted the wedding because she was an insecure person who needed to have that day to make her feel like she was somebody. It's a shame too, because they were a happy couple with 2 children before that and were doing just fine. She was fixing something that wasn't broke, and ironically broke something instead.

Damn straight you pretty much nailed it, and alot of women are under this illusion that when they get married that their relationship will be better than it was before and they will have their "happily ever after", once they get married and see that nothing has really changed, reality can be quite painful.

Which one of us is clueless about women? Because ... seriously not trying to start anything here, but your view of women makes them sound not likable at all. They're cold users, is what I'm hearing. And apparently, they don't think, they just react.

Might I suggest you haven't met any of the worthy ones?

Clueless about women? HAHAHAHAHA! Are you seriously telling me alot of women don't want the happily ever after big wedding when they get married?

 

[High_Gravity]

Damn straight you pretty much nailed it, and alot of women are under this illusion that when they get married that their relationship will be better than it was before and they will have their "happily ever after", once they get married and see that nothing has really changed, reality can be quite painful.

Which one of us is clueless about women? Because ... seriously not trying to start anything here, but your view of women makes them sound not likable at all. They're cold users, is what I'm hearing. And apparently, they don't think, they just react.

Might I suggest you haven't met any of the worthy ones?

He's right though. The thought process of the male is typically that he wants to make the woman his wife, make her happy, and commit himself to just her. Most men don't expect anything other than that. Women tend to think something changes after marriage, like it somehow adds even more love to the relationship. When they realize that it doesn't it upsets them and potentially starts affecting their feelings towards their partner.

It's nothing more than just another of the many differences in the way men and woman are wired.

Yes I was right thanks Paulie, the unrealistic expectations of marriage is one of the many problems that lead to our high divorce rates in the US.

 

[R.D.]

Not me, I'm 53. I'm talking back in the day. Now, it'd be the first date, that being the last.

You keep personalizing this to me. We're not talking about me. I'm married. Granted, he's living with someone else, but my point is - we're not talking about me.

Just wow.

Kinda makes this entire thread dumpster ready

 

[Paulie]

It doesn't happen in a vacuum. There are fights, jabs, talks, rationalizing, begging, pleading, tears; you know. The usual breakdown in the fabric of a relationship. One makes an ultimatum, only this time they really mean it and boom. Gone.

That "I love you so much" smacks of desperation. Having seen myself operating through various relationships, I think yeah. Well, for one thing, god. I'd NEVER stay over a year. Once I knew he was not for marriage, then I would not pursue a relationship.

It would take you that long to know he wasn't for marriage?

It's this simple: You air all that out before getting really involved. If the man says he's into marriage, then you have a REASON for being upset about the relationship if years go by and he's not asking you. At that point you'd know he either lied, or isn't into you enough to make you his wife. In which case I could see leaving.

But if you've been spending a year wondering "is this guy ever gonna marry me? Maybe I should I leave now? I know, I'll give him an ultimatum!" Then you probably weren't all that much in love to begin with.

Not me, I'm 53. I'm talking back in the day. Now, it'd be the first date, that being the last.

You keep personalizing this to me. We're not talking about me. I'm married. Granted, he's living with someone else, but my point is - we're not talking about me.

I'm not really personalizing it to you, I'm just speaking in 2nd person in general. I don't necessarily mean YOU when I say you.

 

[BDBoop]

Damn straight you pretty much nailed it, and alot of women are under this illusion that when they get married that their relationship will be better than it was before and they will have their "happily ever after", once they get married and see that nothing has really changed, reality can be quite painful.

Which one of us is clueless about women? Because ... seriously not trying to start anything here, but your view of women makes them sound not likable at all. They're cold users, is what I'm hearing. And apparently, they don't think, they just react.

Might I suggest you haven't met any of the worthy ones?

Clueless about women? HAHAHAHAHA! Are you seriously telling me alot of women don't want the happily ever after big wedding when they get married?

Dude?? I SAID "Which one of us?"

And you didn't answer. Do you really believe they are all as Machiavellian as you paint them? They all want a big wedding. They all want to suck the life out of a man. They all only want to trap him, use him, and throw him back out in his skivvies. Or might you be generalizing a tad bit much.

 

[BDBoop]

Not me, I'm 53. I'm talking back in the day. Now, it'd be the first date, that being the last.

You keep personalizing this to me. We're not talking about me. I'm married. Granted, he's living with someone else, but my point is - we're not talking about me.

Just wow.

Kinda makes this entire thread dumpster ready

 

[High_Gravity]

Which one of us is clueless about women? Because ... seriously not trying to start anything here, but your view of women makes them sound not likable at all. They're cold users, is what I'm hearing. And apparently, they don't think, they just react.

Might I suggest you haven't met any of the worthy ones?

Clueless about women? HAHAHAHAHA! Are you seriously telling me alot of women don't want the happily ever after big wedding when they get married?

Dude?? I SAID "Which one of us?"

And you didn't answer. Do you really believe they are all as Machiavellian as you paint them? They all want a big wedding. They all want to suck the life out of a man. They all only want to trap him, use him, and throw him back out in his skivvies. Or might you be generalizing a tad bit much.

Thats not what I said at all, did you even read my posts? I said womens expectations of marriage are unrealistic, that they think somehow their relationship with their partner will be better after they get married, when in reality it does not. Something about that seems to touch a nerve for you.

 

[Paulie]

Which one of us is clueless about women? Because ... seriously not trying to start anything here, but your view of women makes them sound not likable at all. They're cold users, is what I'm hearing. And apparently, they don't think, they just react.

Might I suggest you haven't met any of the worthy ones?

Clueless about women? HAHAHAHAHA! Are you seriously telling me alot of women don't want the happily ever after big wedding when they get married?

Dude?? I SAID "Which one of us?"

And you didn't answer. Do you really believe they are all as Machiavellian as you paint them? They all want a big wedding. They all want to suck the life out of a man. They all only want to trap him, use him, and throw him back out in his skivvies. Or might you be generalizing a tad bit much.

Whoa, no one said women are all out to trap, use, suck the life out of, or throw away a man when they marry him. But they DO tend to chase that big fairy tale wedding. I swear, it's like they think that wedding in and of itself is somehow integral to the future of their relationship. Imagine most women's responses if the man says lets get married, but let's just go down to the justice of the peace and make it official there and that's it. Seriously. You know how most women would respond.

It's not the marriage, it's the WEDDING. Women would actually take offense to a man saying let's just do it bare minimum legally.

 

[High_Gravity]

Clueless about women? HAHAHAHAHA! Are you seriously telling me alot of women don't want the happily ever after big wedding when they get married?

Dude?? I SAID "Which one of us?"

And you didn't answer. Do you really believe they are all as Machiavellian as you paint them? They all want a big wedding. They all want to suck the life out of a man. They all only want to trap him, use him, and throw him back out in his skivvies. Or might you be generalizing a tad bit much.

Whoa, no one said women are all out to trap, use, suck the life out of, or throw away a man when they marry him. But they DO tend to chase that big fairy tale wedding. I swear, it's like they think that wedding in and of itself is somehow integral to the future of their relationship. Imagine most women's responses if the man says lets get married, but let's just go down to the justice of the peace and make it official there and that's it. Seriously. You know how most women would respond.

It's not the marriage, it's the WEDDING. Women would actually take offense to a man saying let's just do it bare minimum legally.

People are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on these weddings now Paulie, it blows my mind. With the high number of divorces in this country why would you spend so much money on a wedding when the odds are you will be divorced in 4-5 years anyways? if you really love someone a simple court house wedding should be enough, save the money for a house or something.

 

[Cuyo]

In my case, it's certainly time to get married. I was one who "didn't believe in marriage" for many years - Nowadays, I don't mind the prospect. Honesty, what stops me, is the procedure of getting married, not the actual being married. I told Katie repeatedly that if she just wants to walk into the courthouse and walk out, I do it tomorrow. But the whole tradition; the white dress, the dancing, the vows, the best man and bridal party, the two dysfunctional families who don't really even know each other all packed into one room, the whole thing - f*cking gag me.

 

[BDBoop]

Clueless about women? HAHAHAHAHA! Are you seriously telling me alot of women don't want the happily ever after big wedding when they get married?

Dude?? I SAID "Which one of us?"

And you didn't answer. Do you really believe they are all as Machiavellian as you paint them? They all want a big wedding. They all want to suck the life out of a man. They all only want to trap him, use him, and throw him back out in his skivvies. Or might you be generalizing a tad bit much.

Thats not what I said at all, did you even read my posts? I said womens expectations of marriage are unrealistic, that they think somehow their relationship with their partner will be better after they get married, when in reality it does not. Something about that seems to touch a nerve for you.

Yes, I did read your post, and I strongly disagree.

I also read your posts, and if you'll backtrack, you'll find that's not the only thing you said. I don't react in a vacuum, I react (and respond) to the sum total of what's been said.

 

[Paulie]

In my case, it's certainly time to get married. I was one who "didn't believe in marriage" for many years - Nowadays, I don't mind the prospect. Honesty, what stops me, is the procedure of getting married, not the actual being married. I told Katie repeatedly that if she just wants to walk into the courthouse and walk out, I do it tomorrow. But the whole tradition; the white dress, the dancing, the vows, the best man and bridal party, the two dysfunctional families who don't really even know each other all packed into one room, the whole thing - f*cking gag me.

Not only that, but almost everyone that comes is only there for the free food and booze afterwards, that you spent fucking thousands upon thousands of dollars on.

For WHAT? For WHO? 90% of the people that leave the reception at the end of the night couldn't give a fuck less how your marriage works out.

"We don't have much money for a down payment on a house" ... Maybe because you spent it all on a wedding that was really just a glorified party?