The Liberal Myth that the Rich Pay "Virtually No Taxes"

[Skull Pilot]

How about if the ultra rich get a nice big tax cut and you get a nice big tax increase to help make up the loss of revenue.

You good with that idea?

As to your flat, fair tax. When we all have the same amount of income THEN we can all pay the same amount of tax.

That would be "fair". You good with that idea?

You don't understand the concept of a flat tax do you?

Let me relieve you of your ignorance

If the flat tax rate was 10% then everyone would pay 10% of their income from the first dollar earned no deductions no exceptions that means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions no more charitable deductions etc everyone pays the same rate

So if you make 30K your tax bill will be 3K,
If someone makes 3 million their tax bill will be 300K

So the guy making 100 times more than you pays 100 times more tax

Get it?

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

WHAT????? You mean that those ultra wealthy who have had the benefit of legislation, banking, schooling and inheritance arent paying the same percentage as I am?

That is so unfair. Its also unfair that my dear ole departed Dad didnt leave me a few million dollars either.

Ah well, life is just unfair. And who ever told Skull that life has to be "fair" was full of shit.

Hey Moron no one left me anything

My wife and I both come from very meager roots but just because we rose above it and didn't settle like you did you think I should be taxed at a higher rate than the people like you who did settle

Oh no skull. Somebody left you something. It was the inflated opinion of your self. Somebody left you with the opinion that you are an island. Somebody left you with the opinion that the ultra rich are somehow your better.
Some one left you the opinion that your success has no other people who contributed to it.

I could go on but why? Ive got to put a furnace in ONE of my rentals. Its cold outside.

I never said anyone was better than anyone else you see that's your opinion because you feel the need to take from those who have achieved more than you so as to make up for your failures

 

[Campbell]

IDGAF what the so called 1% pay in taxes because in all honesty if they paid more it would not reduce my tax burden and it wouldn't mean more money in your pocket either

In case you forgot I'm a flat tax proponent so I do think we should all be paying the same rate on every dollar of income no matter what the source

How about if the ultra rich get a nice big tax cut and you get a nice big tax increase to help make up the loss of revenue.

You good with that idea?

As to your flat, fair tax. When we all have the same amount of income THEN we can all pay the same amount of tax.

That would be "fair". You good with that idea?

You don't understand the concept of a flat tax do you?

Let me relieve you of your ignorance

If the flat tax rate was 10% then everyone would pay 10% of their income from the first dollar earned no deductions no exceptions that means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions no more charitable deductions etc everyone pays the same rate

So if you make 30K your tax bill will be 3K,
If someone makes 3 million their tax bill will be 300K

So the guy making 100 times more than you pays 100 times more tax

Get it?

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

What is totally missed and left out is that when all forms of fees and taxation, everything from local sales tax to automobile registration are combined the poor people pay a higher percentage of their expendable income than the rich. Hell.....it's the way the rich fixed it.

Think about it for a minute...fishing license, driver's license, sales tax, gasoline tax, property tax, local sales tax, state income tax, etc. Look at your next AT&T monthly statement and make note of the relatively minor part which charges you a totally unjustified fee or tax. I just used AT&T for an example....look at all of them.

To a man or woman making $300 a week these fixed fees and taxes add up. To someone making $1200 a week they become trivial.

 

[Skull Pilot]

How about if the ultra rich get a nice big tax cut and you get a nice big tax increase to help make up the loss of revenue.

You good with that idea?

As to your flat, fair tax. When we all have the same amount of income THEN we can all pay the same amount of tax.

That would be "fair". You good with that idea?

You don't understand the concept of a flat tax do you?

Let me relieve you of your ignorance

If the flat tax rate was 10% then everyone would pay 10% of their income from the first dollar earned no deductions no exceptions that means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions no more charitable deductions etc everyone pays the same rate

So if you make 30K your tax bill will be 3K,
If someone makes 3 million their tax bill will be 300K

So the guy making 100 times more than you pays 100 times more tax

Get it?

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

What is totally missed and left out is that when all forms of fees and taxation, everything from local sales tax to automobile registration are combined the poor people pay a higher percentage of their expendable income than the rich. Hell.....it's the way the rich fixed it.

So the so called rich set the state fees for registrations and licenses

Cut the shit

 

[NYcarbineer]

You dodged the truth. Keep on being you.

The truth that Clinton surfed a stock market bubble out of office

If you think a bubble is caused by investing in healthy market conditions you must have forgotten the dot bomb era and the later housing bubble I suppose that was too much investment as well

s=kull
Seeing as how you seem to believe that Bush was responsible for nothing, how was it that Clinton was responsible for both the high tech bubble and the subsequent collapse.

This ought to be good.

Where did I say Clinton was responsible for anything

I said he got lucky and surfed the dot com bubble out of office

And I don't know why you think I'm a fan of Bush I'm not never was but I guess you're one of those people who have to think in 2 dimensions you know black or white democrat or republican because you cannot fathom more than 2 choices for anything

Bill Clinton was responsible for a couple of things. He raised taxes and balanced the budget, generated surpluses and presided over arguably the best ever peacetime economy. I might mention that he also left office after two terms with a record breaking 66% approval rating.

None of that means he didn't get lucky when he caught the wave of the tech bubble while in office

He was also responsible for the deregulation of banks, investment firms and insurance companies that made too big to fail possible

Almost the entire stock market went up during Clinton's term, almost every sector.

Republicans predicted a recession if the 93 tax increase passed, lol. They also predicted massive job loss if the minimum wage increase passed. It did; there wasn't.

 

[Wilbur Right]

You don't understand the concept of a flat tax do you?

Let me relieve you of your ignorance

If the flat tax rate was 10% then everyone would pay 10% of their income from the first dollar earned no deductions no exceptions that means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions no more charitable deductions etc everyone pays the same rate

So if you make 30K your tax bill will be 3K,
If someone makes 3 million their tax bill will be 300K

So the guy making 100 times more than you pays 100 times more tax

Get it?

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

WHAT????? You mean that those ultra wealthy who have had the benefit of legislation, banking, schooling and inheritance arent paying the same percentage as I am?

That is so unfair. Its also unfair that my dear ole departed Dad didnt leave me a few million dollars either.

Ah well, life is just unfair. And who ever told Skull that life has to be "fair" was full of shit.

Hey Moron no one left me anything

My wife and I both come from very meager roots but just because we rose above it and didn't settle like you did you think I should be taxed at a higher rate than the people like you who did settle

Oh no skull. Somebody left you something. It was the inflated opinion of your self. Somebody left you with the opinion that you are an island. Somebody left you with the opinion that the ultra rich are somehow your better.
Some one left you the opinion that your success has no other people who contributed to it.

I could go on but why? Ive got to put a furnace in ONE of my rentals. Its cold outside.

I never said anyone was better than anyone else you see that's your opinion because you feel the need to take from those who have achieved more than you so as to make up for your failures

No bets I see.

But you do think the ultra wealthy is your better. When people like you start worrying that a person making, lets say, 25 million a year needs or deserves a tax cut, either you think they are your better or you are just plain stupid.

Which is it?

 

[rightwinger]

How about if the ultra rich get a nice big tax cut and you get a nice big tax increase to help make up the loss of revenue.

You good with that idea?

As to your flat, fair tax. When we all have the same amount of income THEN we can all pay the same amount of tax.

That would be "fair". You good with that idea?

You don't understand the concept of a flat tax do you?

Let me relieve you of your ignorance

If the flat tax rate was 10% then everyone would pay 10% of their income from the first dollar earned no deductions no exceptions that means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions no more charitable deductions etc everyone pays the same rate

So if you make 30K your tax bill will be 3K,
If someone makes 3 million their tax bill will be 300K

So the guy making 100 times more than you pays 100 times more tax

Get it?

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

 

[JoeNormal]

If the rich pay "virtually nothing" in taxes, as liberals continue to claim, how is it that they pay the majority of federal personal income taxes? According to federal income tax data, the top 1% pay about 45% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% pay at least 60% of all federal income taxes. And the top 20% pay over 80% of all federal income taxes.

Top 1% pay nearly half of federal income taxes

Top 10 Percent of Earners Paid 68 Percent of Federal Income Taxes

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

STEPHEN MOORE: Do the rich pay their fair share of taxes?

Do the rich pay lower taxes than the middle class?

The Rich Pay More than Their Fair Share of Taxes | Economics21

What's more, the top 1% pay around 24% of all federal taxes (income taxes, corporate taxes, tariffs, etc.). The top 10% pay over 50% of all federal taxes.

1 Percenters Pay 24 Percent and Top 10 Percent Pay 53.3 Percent of All Federal Taxes

And this is on top of the huge amount of county and state taxes that the rich pay, especially rich people who own businesses. I have two relatives who own businesses, and I can't believe how much they get soaked in county and state taxes, especially property taxes.

Liberals who go around peddling the kool-aid myth that "the rich pay virtually no taxes" or that "the average rich person pays less than a middle-income earner" obviously don't know any rich people and/or any business owners and are basing these silly claims on grossly misleading "studies" churned out by liberal think tanks and economists.

I liked it the way it was before Ronald Reagan slashed rates for the rich and quadrupled the national debt. they're gonna spend by god they should tax to cover it:

..............................................Total U S Debt................................................

Figures Easily Verified....Taken From the Bureau of the Debt

US: $18,775,084,981,440 - Debt as of December 2015?

09/30/2014 $17,824,071,380,733.82

09/30/2013 $16,738,183,526,697.32

09/30/2012 $16,066,241,407,385.89

09/30/2011 $14,790,340,328,557.15

09/30/2010 $13,561,623,030,891.79

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48

09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23

09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50

09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62

09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34

09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73

09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39

09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32 (Bill Clinton Raised Taxes On The Rich early 1993)

09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)

09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66

09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03

09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25

09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32

09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16

09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00

09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42

09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00

09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00

09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)(Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

Look Closely At The Upper 1% Line at the End of Clinton's Two Terms....Then Bush Cut Taxes For His Rich Oil Buds Not Once But Twice....2001 and 2003

Notice That The Lower Half Of All Earners Have Lost Purchasing Power Since 1979!

So you really want to go back to pre-Reagan tax rates?

You do realize that the lowest bracket was 14% not 10 and that if you were singlr making 45K a year you would be in the 55% bracket

Be careful what you wish for

I'm 81 years old. Back in the day anyone who made more than $300,000 a year paid 91% of the excess in taxes. The only difference I noticed was that there weren't as many privately owned ocean going yachts and private planes. Screw the people who ride the labors of others to become filthy rich...either that or use personal advantage in the stock market. 'Course there's always a chance they inherited it. In the late 1940's a corporate executive earned 12-15 times what a carpenter or plumber made. By 1970 that had changed to about 100 times as much. In 2012 a typical CEO made 550 times what an average worker made in this country. Just how much do you goddamned greedy assholes want? What will it take to satisfy you?

I worked my ass off to make what I make and wanting to keep it is not greedy

Greedy is other people saying I don't have a right to keep my own fucking money

A lot of people have worked their fucking asses off. Be glad it worked out for you.

 

[Campbell]

How about if the ultra rich get a nice big tax cut and you get a nice big tax increase to help make up the loss of revenue.

You good with that idea?

As to your flat, fair tax. When we all have the same amount of income THEN we can all pay the same amount of tax.

That would be "fair". You good with that idea?

You don't understand the concept of a flat tax do you?

Let me relieve you of your ignorance

If the flat tax rate was 10% then everyone would pay 10% of their income from the first dollar earned no deductions no exceptions that means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions no more charitable deductions etc everyone pays the same rate

So if you make 30K your tax bill will be 3K,
If someone makes 3 million their tax bill will be 300K

So the guy making 100 times more than you pays 100 times more tax

Get it?

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

So then a poor bastard earning $30,000 a year will have to add another tax to the mess he's already taking care of. You people just don't get it. Local taxes and fees eat up a high percentage of a $30,000 a year earner and to a millionaire it's like a fart in a whirlwind.

 

[JoeNormal]

You are a sucker for actually working for your money

The ultra wealthy use you as an example why they should not pay more in taxes

IDGAF what the so called 1% pay in taxes because in all honesty if they paid more it would not reduce my tax burden and it wouldn't mean more money in your pocket either

In case you forgot I'm a flat tax proponent so I do think we should all be paying the same rate on every dollar of income no matter what the source

How about if the ultra rich get a nice big tax cut and you get a nice big tax increase to help make up the loss of revenue.

You good with that idea?

As to your flat, fair tax. When we all have the same amount of income THEN we can all pay the same amount of tax.

That would be "fair". You good with that idea?

You don't understand the concept of a flat tax do you?

Let me relieve you of your ignorance

If the flat tax rate was 10% then everyone would pay 10% of their income from the first dollar earned no deductions no exceptions that means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions no more charitable deductions etc everyone pays the same rate

So if you make 30K your tax bill will be 3K,
If someone makes 3 million their tax bill will be 300K

So the guy making 100 times more than you pays 100 times more tax

Get it?

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

It's not the taxation that's unfair, it's the relative incomes.

 

[Campbell]

If the rich pay "virtually nothing" in taxes, as liberals continue to claim, how is it that they pay the majority of federal personal income taxes? According to federal income tax data, the top 1% pay about 45% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% pay at least 60% of all federal income taxes. And the top 20% pay over 80% of all federal income taxes.

Top 1% pay nearly half of federal income taxes

Top 10 Percent of Earners Paid 68 Percent of Federal Income Taxes

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

STEPHEN MOORE: Do the rich pay their fair share of taxes?

Do the rich pay lower taxes than the middle class?

The Rich Pay More than Their Fair Share of Taxes | Economics21

What's more, the top 1% pay around 24% of all federal taxes (income taxes, corporate taxes, tariffs, etc.). The top 10% pay over 50% of all federal taxes.

1 Percenters Pay 24 Percent and Top 10 Percent Pay 53.3 Percent of All Federal Taxes

And this is on top of the huge amount of county and state taxes that the rich pay, especially rich people who own businesses. I have two relatives who own businesses, and I can't believe how much they get soaked in county and state taxes, especially property taxes.

Liberals who go around peddling the kool-aid myth that "the rich pay virtually no taxes" or that "the average rich person pays less than a middle-income earner" obviously don't know any rich people and/or any business owners and are basing these silly claims on grossly misleading "studies" churned out by liberal think tanks and economists.

I liked it the way it was before Ronald Reagan slashed rates for the rich and quadrupled the national debt. they're gonna spend by god they should tax to cover it:

..............................................Total U S Debt................................................

Figures Easily Verified....Taken From the Bureau of the Debt

US: $18,775,084,981,440 - Debt as of December 2015?

09/30/2014 $17,824,071,380,733.82

09/30/2013 $16,738,183,526,697.32

09/30/2012 $16,066,241,407,385.89

09/30/2011 $14,790,340,328,557.15

09/30/2010 $13,561,623,030,891.79

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48

09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23

09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50

09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62

09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34

09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73

09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39

09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32 (Bill Clinton Raised Taxes On The Rich early 1993)

09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)

09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66

09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03

09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25

09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32

09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16

09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00

09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42

09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00

09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00

09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)(Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

Look Closely At The Upper 1% Line at the End of Clinton's Two Terms....Then Bush Cut Taxes For His Rich Oil Buds Not Once But Twice....2001 and 2003

Notice That The Lower Half Of All Earners Have Lost Purchasing Power Since 1979!

So you really want to go back to pre-Reagan tax rates?

You do realize that the lowest bracket was 14% not 10 and that if you were singlr making 45K a year you would be in the 55% bracket

Be careful what you wish for

I'm 81 years old. Back in the day anyone who made more than $300,000 a year paid 91% of the excess in taxes. The only difference I noticed was that there weren't as many privately owned ocean going yachts and private planes. Screw the people who ride the labors of others to become filthy rich...either that or use personal advantage in the stock market. In the late 1940's a corporate executive earned 12-15 times what a carpenter or plumber made. By 1970 that had changed to about 100 times as much. In 2012 a typical CEO made 550 times what an average worker made in this country. Just how much do you goddamned greedy assholes want? What will it take to satisfy you?

You see Cambell, that is why your premise is faulty; because you are basing it on envy!

Notice..............what a CEO makes has absolutely nothing to do with governmental policy, it has to do with what a private corporation run by people who own stock like all of us who/whom are shareholders, decides the prospective CEO is worth. Now I agree their salaries are to damn high, but try and get a good one today without paying it and see what you get!

We see this scenario everywhere in business, so as an example, I will use this one-----> FORD MOTOR! Do we remember (I am sure you do if you are anywhere near as old as you claim) when the auto industry was in deep, dark, trouble? Bill Ford decided he would take the helm of the family business to right the ship, and 100s of thousands of his employees along with suppliers needed him to deliver. Hell, the United States government needed him to deliver, because losing one of its crown jewels of manufacturing in front of the onlookers of the world would be totally unacceptable; and if it collapsed, all those pensions were backed by the fed program. It was a very dicey time!

He couldn't do it. Let me repeat that, HE COULDN'T DO IT! As Ford was bleeding billions, the family went out and basically begged Alan Mulhaully to come from Boeing and help save them. The Ford family paid him HUGE, and along with that gave him large amounts of stock options to save their company, 100s of thousands of jobs in our economy across all spectrums, and you know what! Liberals in the union and on the street bitched, whined, and moaned it JUST WASN'T FAIR! I worked there, I know. To much money they said. We haven't gotten a decent raise in years, and look at the money he is making they proclaimed. We want to go on strike because of it, they threatened!

That man SAVED The Ford Motor Company, my job and 100s of thousands of others. He was the only auto company NOT to take a tarp bailout that your buddies in Washington were handing out, allowing them to keep artistic control of their vehicles. He didn't drop billions on the taxpayers of this nation, and because of it had to make the factories more efficient because our companies debt was still there, unlike GM and Chrysler who screwed their bondholders........but he did it, and they not only survived, but have done extremely well.

So what is a man like that worth Cambell and all you lefties? Tell all of us on this board! He saved thousands upon thousands of lefty union jobs, even as the people who worked in those jobs BITCHED because he was being paid a kings ransom. Were those stock options he received worth all those jobs and the saving of one of the crown jewels of our manufacturing sector?

If you said NO, then you are all a bunch of economic fools and illiterates. That man and his passion and ideas, saved the United States government 250 billion dollars in pension payouts if Ford would have gone under, lost tax revenue, economic expansion, and the benefits are still RISING from his stewardship, even though he has since retired.

Tell us all again how a good CEO is not worth their pay-)

Just curious....back in the 40's and 50's why did things work better for a family who only had one person working compared to today when most families have two working and sometimes one of them holds down two jobs?

 

[Mac1958]

Just curious....back in the 40's and 50's why did things work better for a family who only had one person working compared to today when most families have two working and sometimes one of them holds down two jobs?

That might make an interesting thread.
.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The truth that Clinton surfed a stock market bubble out of office

If you think a bubble is caused by investing in healthy market conditions you must have forgotten the dot bomb era and the later housing bubble I suppose that was too much investment as well

s=kull
Seeing as how you seem to believe that Bush was responsible for nothing, how was it that Clinton was responsible for both the high tech bubble and the subsequent collapse.

This ought to be good.

Where did I say Clinton was responsible for anything

I said he got lucky and surfed the dot com bubble out of office

And I don't know why you think I'm a fan of Bush I'm not never was but I guess you're one of those people who have to think in 2 dimensions you know black or white democrat or republican because you cannot fathom more than 2 choices for anything

Bill Clinton was responsible for a couple of things. He raised taxes and balanced the budget, generated surpluses and presided over arguably the best ever peacetime economy. I might mention that he also left office after two terms with a record breaking 66% approval rating.

None of that means he didn't get lucky when he caught the wave of the tech bubble while in office

He was also responsible for the deregulation of banks, investment firms and insurance companies that made too big to fail possible

Almost the entire stock market went up during Clinton's term, almost every sector.

Republicans predicted a recession if the 93 tax increase passed, lol. They also predicted massive job loss if the minimum wage increase passed. It did; there wasn't.

And when the bubble burst almost every sector took a hit

 

[Skull Pilot]

You don't understand the concept of a flat tax do you?

Let me relieve you of your ignorance

If the flat tax rate was 10% then everyone would pay 10% of their income from the first dollar earned no deductions no exceptions that means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions no more charitable deductions etc everyone pays the same rate

So if you make 30K your tax bill will be 3K,
If someone makes 3 million their tax bill will be 300K

So the guy making 100 times more than you pays 100 times more tax

Get it?

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

So let's get rid of them and then tax every dollar the same

 

[Skull Pilot]

You don't understand the concept of a flat tax do you?

Let me relieve you of your ignorance

If the flat tax rate was 10% then everyone would pay 10% of their income from the first dollar earned no deductions no exceptions that means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions no more charitable deductions etc everyone pays the same rate

So if you make 30K your tax bill will be 3K,
If someone makes 3 million their tax bill will be 300K

So the guy making 100 times more than you pays 100 times more tax

Get it?

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

So then a poor bastard earning $30,000 a year will have to add another tax to the mess he's already taking care of. You people just don't get it. Local taxes and fees eat up a high percentage of a $30,000 a year earner and to a millionaire it's like a fart in a whirlwind.

It's not another tax moron it's still the income tax he's already paying the only change is that every dollar will be taxed the same and we will get rid of all the deductions and taxes designed to influence behavior

 

[Skull Pilot]

IDGAF what the so called 1% pay in taxes because in all honesty if they paid more it would not reduce my tax burden and it wouldn't mean more money in your pocket either

In case you forgot I'm a flat tax proponent so I do think we should all be paying the same rate on every dollar of income no matter what the source

How about if the ultra rich get a nice big tax cut and you get a nice big tax increase to help make up the loss of revenue.

You good with that idea?

As to your flat, fair tax. When we all have the same amount of income THEN we can all pay the same amount of tax.

That would be "fair". You good with that idea?

You don't understand the concept of a flat tax do you?

Let me relieve you of your ignorance

If the flat tax rate was 10% then everyone would pay 10% of their income from the first dollar earned no deductions no exceptions that means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions no more charitable deductions etc everyone pays the same rate

So if you make 30K your tax bill will be 3K,
If someone makes 3 million their tax bill will be 300K

So the guy making 100 times more than you pays 100 times more tax

Get it?

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

It's not the taxation that's unfair, it's the relative incomes.

No one is stopping you from making more money

 

[Skull Pilot]

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

WHAT????? You mean that those ultra wealthy who have had the benefit of legislation, banking, schooling and inheritance arent paying the same percentage as I am?

That is so unfair. Its also unfair that my dear ole departed Dad didnt leave me a few million dollars either.

Ah well, life is just unfair. And who ever told Skull that life has to be "fair" was full of shit.

Hey Moron no one left me anything

My wife and I both come from very meager roots but just because we rose above it and didn't settle like you did you think I should be taxed at a higher rate than the people like you who did settle

Oh no skull. Somebody left you something. It was the inflated opinion of your self. Somebody left you with the opinion that you are an island. Somebody left you with the opinion that the ultra rich are somehow your better.
Some one left you the opinion that your success has no other people who contributed to it.

I could go on but why? Ive got to put a furnace in ONE of my rentals. Its cold outside.

I never said anyone was better than anyone else you see that's your opinion because you feel the need to take from those who have achieved more than you so as to make up for your failures

No bets I see.

But you do think the ultra wealthy is your better. When people like you start worrying that a person making, lets say, 25 million a year needs or deserves a tax cut, either you think they are your better or you are just plain stupid.

Which is it?

So in your mind twisted by jealousy treating every earner and every dollar exactly the same for tax purposes is somehow treating some people better than others?

The flat tax is the very definition of a fair tax

 

[Campbell]

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

So let's get rid of them and then tax every dollar the same

Alright.....let's start paying people who come in and mow people's yards at an hourly rate the same as the owner of the home earns.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the rich pay "virtually nothing" in taxes, as liberals continue to claim, how is it that they pay the majority of federal personal income taxes? According to federal income tax data, the top 1% pay about 45% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% pay at least 60% of all federal income taxes. And the top 20% pay over 80% of all federal income taxes.

Top 1% pay nearly half of federal income taxes

Top 10 Percent of Earners Paid 68 Percent of Federal Income Taxes

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

STEPHEN MOORE: Do the rich pay their fair share of taxes?

Do the rich pay lower taxes than the middle class?

The Rich Pay More than Their Fair Share of Taxes | Economics21

What's more, the top 1% pay around 24% of all federal taxes (income taxes, corporate taxes, tariffs, etc.). The top 10% pay over 50% of all federal taxes.

1 Percenters Pay 24 Percent and Top 10 Percent Pay 53.3 Percent of All Federal Taxes

And this is on top of the huge amount of county and state taxes that the rich pay, especially rich people who own businesses. I have two relatives who own businesses, and I can't believe how much they get soaked in county and state taxes, especially property taxes.

Liberals who go around peddling the kool-aid myth that "the rich pay virtually no taxes" or that "the average rich person pays less than a middle-income earner" obviously don't know any rich people and/or any business owners and are basing these silly claims on grossly misleading "studies" churned out by liberal think tanks and economists.

I liked it the way it was before Ronald Reagan slashed rates for the rich and quadrupled the national debt. they're gonna spend by god they should tax to cover it:

..............................................Total U S Debt................................................

Figures Easily Verified....Taken From the Bureau of the Debt

US: $18,775,084,981,440 - Debt as of December 2015?

09/30/2014 $17,824,071,380,733.82

09/30/2013 $16,738,183,526,697.32

09/30/2012 $16,066,241,407,385.89

09/30/2011 $14,790,340,328,557.15

09/30/2010 $13,561,623,030,891.79

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48

09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23

09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50

09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62

09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34

09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73

09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39

09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32 (Bill Clinton Raised Taxes On The Rich early 1993)

09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)

09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66

09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03

09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25

09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32

09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16

09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00

09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42

09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00

09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00

09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)(Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

Look Closely At The Upper 1% Line at the End of Clinton's Two Terms....Then Bush Cut Taxes For His Rich Oil Buds Not Once But Twice....2001 and 2003

Notice That The Lower Half Of All Earners Have Lost Purchasing Power Since 1979!

So you really want to go back to pre-Reagan tax rates?

You do realize that the lowest bracket was 14% not 10 and that if you were singlr making 45K a year you would be in the 55% bracket

Be careful what you wish for

I'm 81 years old. Back in the day anyone who made more than $300,000 a year paid 91% of the excess in taxes. The only difference I noticed was that there weren't as many privately owned ocean going yachts and private planes. Screw the people who ride the labors of others to become filthy rich...either that or use personal advantage in the stock market. In the late 1940's a corporate executive earned 12-15 times what a carpenter or plumber made. By 1970 that had changed to about 100 times as much. In 2012 a typical CEO made 550 times what an average worker made in this country. Just how much do you goddamned greedy assholes want? What will it take to satisfy you?

You see Cambell, that is why your premise is faulty; because you are basing it on envy!

Notice..............what a CEO makes has absolutely nothing to do with governmental policy, it has to do with what a private corporation run by people who own stock like all of us who/whom are shareholders, decides the prospective CEO is worth. Now I agree their salaries are to damn high, but try and get a good one today without paying it and see what you get!

We see this scenario everywhere in business, so as an example, I will use this one-----> FORD MOTOR! Do we remember (I am sure you do if you are anywhere near as old as you claim) when the auto industry was in deep, dark, trouble? Bill Ford decided he would take the helm of the family business to right the ship, and 100s of thousands of his employees along with suppliers needed him to deliver. Hell, the United States government needed him to deliver, because losing one of its crown jewels of manufacturing in front of the onlookers of the world would be totally unacceptable; and if it collapsed, all those pensions were backed by the fed program. It was a very dicey time!

He couldn't do it. Let me repeat that, HE COULDN'T DO IT! As Ford was bleeding billions, the family went out and basically begged Alan Mulhaully to come from Boeing and help save them. The Ford family paid him HUGE, and along with that gave him large amounts of stock options to save their company, 100s of thousands of jobs in our economy across all spectrums, and you know what! Liberals in the union and on the street bitched, whined, and moaned it JUST WASN'T FAIR! I worked there, I know. To much money they said. We haven't gotten a decent raise in years, and look at the money he is making they proclaimed. We want to go on strike because of it, they threatened!

That man SAVED The Ford Motor Company, my job and 100s of thousands of others. He was the only auto company NOT to take a tarp bailout that your buddies in Washington were handing out, allowing them to keep artistic control of their vehicles. He didn't drop billions on the taxpayers of this nation, and because of it had to make the factories more efficient because our companies debt was still there, unlike GM and Chrysler who screwed their bondholders........but he did it, and they not only survived, but have done extremely well.

So what is a man like that worth Cambell and all you lefties? Tell all of us on this board! He saved thousands upon thousands of lefty union jobs, even as the people who worked in those jobs BITCHED because he was being paid a kings ransom. Were those stock options he received worth all those jobs and the saving of one of the crown jewels of our manufacturing sector?

If you said NO, then you are all a bunch of economic fools and illiterates. That man and his passion and ideas, saved the United States government 250 billion dollars in pension payouts if Ford would have gone under, lost tax revenue, economic expansion, and the benefits are still RISING from his stewardship, even though he has since retired.

Tell us all again how a good CEO is not worth their pay-)

Just curious....back in the 40's and 50's why did things work better for a family who only had one person working compared to today when most families have two working and sometimes one of them holds down two jobs?

HMm let's see maybe the overall tax burden was lower because the fucking government didn't have it's fingers in every orifice of the public

 

[Skull Pilot]

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

So let's get rid of them and then tax every dollar the same

Alright.....let's start paying people who come in and mow people's yards at an hourly rate the same as the owner of the home earns.

You still don't understand that not all labor is equal but all dollars are do you?

Go try to figure it out so you don't sound like such a moron

 

[edthecynic]

The flat tax is the very definition of a fair tax

Only if you can't dodge your taxes with the phony funds and foundations the WEALTHY use to avoid income taxes.

"Own nothing. Control everything"
John D Rockefeller

Gary Allen: The Rockefeller File Chapter 1 to 4

The Rockefellers invented a scheme, used by the super rich today, whereby the more money you appear to give away, the richer and more powerful you become. Through the help of captive politicians, guided by some bright boys in the family law offices, legislation was written and passed which would protect the Rockefellers and other elite super-rich from the repressive taxation they have foisted on everyone else.

The key to this system is giving up ownership but retaining control. For example, most people don't believe they really own something unless they retain title to it in their own name. The Rockefellers know this is a big mistake. Often it is better to have your assets owned by a trust or a foundation-which you control-than to have them in your own name.

For example, when Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis ordered Standard Oil broken up back in 1911, sly old John D. simply created some new foundations and gave his stock to them. The net effect was the same as if you took your wallet out of your right-hand pocket and put it in the left. In this case, however, Rockefeller not only managed to avoid income taxes, but also escaped the probate, estate and inheritance taxes which have ravaged the wealth of those not in the know.

So three generations of Rockefellers have been - giving away millions of dollars - giving much of it to themselves. For example, if a Rockefeller gives a million dollars worth of stock in the Titanic Oil Corporation to the Dogood Foundation, which the family controls, he is not really out one million bucks. All he has done is transfer title of the securities to an alter ego. Of course, the foundation may then give away some of the money, or, more likely, donate some of the stock's future earnings to some allegedly worthwhile cause. But, as the few investigations by Congress into this devious field have shown, in the case of the Rockefellers such bequests somehow end up increasing the Rockefeller financial or political power.