The Liberal Myth that the Rich Pay "Virtually No Taxes"

[Skylar]

If the rich pay "virtually nothing" in taxes, as liberals continue to claim, how is it that they pay the majority of federal personal income taxes? According to federal income tax data, the top 1% pay about 45% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% pay at least 60% of all federal income taxes. And the top 20% pay over 80% of all federal income taxes.

Top 1% pay nearly half of federal income taxes

Top 10 Percent of Earners Paid 68 Percent of Federal Income Taxes

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

STEPHEN MOORE: Do the rich pay their fair share of taxes?

Do the rich pay lower taxes than the middle class?

The Rich Pay More than Their Fair Share of Taxes | Economics21

What's more, the top 1% pay around 24% of all federal taxes (income taxes, corporate taxes, tariffs, etc.). The top 10% pay over 50% of all federal taxes.

1 Percenters Pay 24 Percent and Top 10 Percent Pay 53.3 Percent of All Federal Taxes

And this is on top of the huge amount of county and state taxes that the rich pay, especially rich people who own businesses. I have two relatives who own businesses, and I can't believe how much they get soaked in county and state taxes, especially property taxes.

Liberals who go around peddling the kool-aid myth that "the rich pay virtually no taxes" or that "the average rich person pays less than a middle-income earner" obviously don't know any rich people and/or any business owners and are basing these silly claims on grossly misleading "studies" churned out by liberal think tanks and economists.

Who says that the rich pay 'virtually nothing'?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry Mike but....on factual grounds you may win this arguement. You will also win this arguement on moral grounds. But you will never win this arguement under the current conditions of politics/tax code in this country. As long as a large % of the adult population in the US pays 0 or less federal tax, they have no inclination to fight against overtaxing. The politicians have purposely set it up this way so as they have a group to pander to in elections. We both know this, and so does every lefty on this board, and good luck beating your head against the wall trying to get them to admit it; although I do appreciate your using facts in an attempt to try and get them to do so!

As the wise say...........a 10% rise in taxes on 100 dollars is 10 bucks. A 10% rise on zero taxes is still zero. Nothing from nothing means nothing to them financially, so how we gonna win that arguement on any political grounds?

And a 10% raise on a billion dollars is a hundred million. What is it you could do with 1,000,000,000 dollars that you couldn't do with 900,000,000?

That's a false premise

What can you do with 2 pairs of shoes that you can't do with one?

What right does the government have to take a persons property ? One's money is one's property after all

1 pair of shoes compared to two is 50%. Where did I say 50%?

That you don't have the right to tell people how much of their own money they need or don't need was my point

If he's paying 10% and I'm paying 30%, then sure I definitely have the right to complain about what he's paying compared to what I'm paying. That's how democracy works............................................................................................................................................................................................................................

So you should be in favor of the flat tax then so everyone pays the same percentage

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the rich pay "virtually nothing" in taxes, as liberals continue to claim, how is it that they pay the majority of federal personal income taxes? According to federal income tax data, the top 1% pay about 45% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% pay at least 60% of all federal income taxes. And the top 20% pay over 80% of all federal income taxes.

Top 1% pay nearly half of federal income taxes

Top 10 Percent of Earners Paid 68 Percent of Federal Income Taxes

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

STEPHEN MOORE: Do the rich pay their fair share of taxes?

Do the rich pay lower taxes than the middle class?

The Rich Pay More than Their Fair Share of Taxes | Economics21

What's more, the top 1% pay around 24% of all federal taxes (income taxes, corporate taxes, tariffs, etc.). The top 10% pay over 50% of all federal taxes.

1 Percenters Pay 24 Percent and Top 10 Percent Pay 53.3 Percent of All Federal Taxes

And this is on top of the huge amount of county and state taxes that the rich pay, especially rich people who own businesses. I have two relatives who own businesses, and I can't believe how much they get soaked in county and state taxes, especially property taxes.

Liberals who go around peddling the kool-aid myth that "the rich pay virtually no taxes" or that "the average rich person pays less than a middle-income earner" obviously don't know any rich people and/or any business owners and are basing these silly claims on grossly misleading "studies" churned out by liberal think tanks and economists.

Who says that the rich pay 'virtually nothing'?

Well 40% of all taxes must equal nothing to those who pay far less

It's just one of many contradictory beliefs held by the envious left

 

[Skylar]

If the rich pay "virtually nothing" in taxes, as liberals continue to claim, how is it that they pay the majority of federal personal income taxes? According to federal income tax data, the top 1% pay about 45% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% pay at least 60% of all federal income taxes. And the top 20% pay over 80% of all federal income taxes.

Top 1% pay nearly half of federal income taxes

Top 10 Percent of Earners Paid 68 Percent of Federal Income Taxes

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

STEPHEN MOORE: Do the rich pay their fair share of taxes?

Do the rich pay lower taxes than the middle class?

The Rich Pay More than Their Fair Share of Taxes | Economics21

What's more, the top 1% pay around 24% of all federal taxes (income taxes, corporate taxes, tariffs, etc.). The top 10% pay over 50% of all federal taxes.

1 Percenters Pay 24 Percent and Top 10 Percent Pay 53.3 Percent of All Federal Taxes

And this is on top of the huge amount of county and state taxes that the rich pay, especially rich people who own businesses. I have two relatives who own businesses, and I can't believe how much they get soaked in county and state taxes, especially property taxes.

Liberals who go around peddling the kool-aid myth that "the rich pay virtually no taxes" or that "the average rich person pays less than a middle-income earner" obviously don't know any rich people and/or any business owners and are basing these silly claims on grossly misleading "studies" churned out by liberal think tanks and economists.

Who says that the rich pay 'virtually nothing'?

Well 40% of all taxes must equal nothing to those who pay far less

It's just one of many contradictory beliefs held by the envious left

Again, according to who? I even put 'the rich pay virtually nothing' into google. And what came up were right wing websites claiming to speak for 'liberals'.

Who sys that the rich pay virtually nothing? Its kind of the cornerstone of the entire argument of the OP.

 

[Skylar]

And a 10% raise on a billion dollars is a hundred million. What is it you could do with 1,000,000,000 dollars that you couldn't do with 900,000,000?

That's a false premise

What can you do with 2 pairs of shoes that you can't do with one?

What right does the government have to take a persons property ? One's money is one's property after all

1 pair of shoes compared to two is 50%. Where did I say 50%?

That you don't have the right to tell people how much of their own money they need or don't need was my point

If he's paying 10% and I'm paying 30%, then sure I definitely have the right to complain about what he's paying compared to what I'm paying. That's how democracy works............................................................................................................................................................................................................................

So you should be in favor of the flat tax then so everyone pays the same percentage

So capital gains would be taxed the same as earned income?

 

[Steven_R]

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

So let's get rid of them and then tax every dollar the same

So if it is your only dollar it gets taxed ten cents and if it is your hundred millionth dollar it gets taxed ten cents

I'm alright with that. Everyone should have the same skin in the game, not just those with cash.

Fair share means fair share, not let that guy pay the tab for everyone.

 

[Skylar]

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

So let's get rid of them and then tax every dollar the same

So if it is your only dollar it gets taxed ten cents and if it is your hundred millionth dollar it gets taxed ten cents

I'm alright with that. Everyone should have skin in the game, not just those with cash.

Fair share means fair share, not let that guy pay the tab for everyone.

So a massive, massive tax cut for the wealthy and a huge tax hike for the poor and middle class is 'fair'?

 

[Steven_R]

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

So let's get rid of them and then tax every dollar the same

So if it is your only dollar it gets taxed ten cents and if it is your hundred millionth dollar it gets taxed ten cents

I'm alright with that. Everyone should have skin in the game, not just those with cash.

Fair share means fair share, not let that guy pay the tab for everyone.

So a massive, massive tax cut for the wealthy and a huge tax hike for the poor and middle class is 'fair'?

What exactly do the rich get for pulling the weight of everyone? Their vote doesn't count for more, they don't get more rights, so why should they be expected to pay for more just because they can?

And lest we forget, they get vilified by the bully pulpit the whole time just to boot.

 

[Skylar]

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

So let's get rid of them and then tax every dollar the same

So if it is your only dollar it gets taxed ten cents and if it is your hundred millionth dollar it gets taxed ten cents

I'm alright with that. Everyone should have skin in the game, not just those with cash.

Fair share means fair share, not let that guy pay the tab for everyone.

So a massive, massive tax cut for the wealthy and a huge tax hike for the poor and middle class is 'fair'?

What exactly do the rich get for pulling the weight of everyone? Their vote doesn't count for more, they don't get more rights, so why should they be expected to pay for more just because they can?

And lest we forget, they get vilified by the bully pulpit the whole time just to boot.

A question with a question, huh? What about my question required you to avoid it?

So a massive, massive tax cut for the wealthy and a huge tax hike for the poor and middle class is 'fair'?

 

[Steven_R]

Yes. Everyone with the same burden is the textbook definition of fair.

 

[Rustic]

Can someone get the right wing corporatist apologist for the rich a dictionary and then explain to them proportionality and fairness. When someone can show me a rich person alone on an island creating wealth they may have something, till then they simply miss where wealth is created and how.

"This disposition to admire, and almost to worship , the rich and powerful, and to despise, or, at least neglect persons of poor and mean conditions...is...the great and most universal cause of the corruption of our moral sentiments." Adam Smith

Right wing mental gymnastic apologies for the wealthy and the greedy is a funny show. One has to wonder what world they live in or even if they are just greed justification bots? The very same right wingers think minimum wage is too high. Put that in your moral ethical Christian mixer and tell us how or why? Two things: I happen to know many of the top and believe me they could care less, if they even thought about it, that you righties are on their side. Plus, having worked in corporate America we've done fine too, as it ain't just the top that do so well. But please righties stay the course, Walmart's billionaires love you, nah. LOL


"Lasch understood the paradox that much of the modern American left and right find contradictory: property could be theft, particularly under capitalist property relations and wage labor, but it also meant freedom for small producers — such as farmers, artisans, and shopkeepers in the 19th century or what today have become small business owners and sole proprietorships — who were able to control the conditions under which they made their living. The rise of mass production for ever-expanding markets and with it the shift to salaried labor destroyed this radical yet deeply conservative outlook on life, turning skilled craftsmen who worked for themselves into interchangeable cogs in somebody else’s machine, both literally and figuratively. Workers understood this, noted Lasch, and reacted by "defending not just their economic interests but their crafts, families, and neighborhoods.""
Why Read Christopher Lasch?

"It turns out that the Wall Street bonus pool in 2014 was roughly twice the total annual earnings of all Americans working full time at the federal minimum wage." http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/opinion/sunday/nicholas-kristof-inequality-is-a-choice.html

"This is what the Lord says: 'Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight,' declares the Lord." Jeremiah 9:23-24

Too bad you don't understand that bible verse... Lol

 

[Skylar]

Yes. Everyone with the same burden is the textbook definition of fair.

Good luck convincing the overwhelming majority of the electorate that they need a huge tax increase while the rich get a massive tax cut.

 

[Steven_R]

Why would they? Who would want to end their free ride?

Just admit it, you want someone else to pay your way. Let someone else pay for all the shit you want government to do, but don't hand you the bill for it.

 

[Skylar]

Why would they? Who would want to end their free ride?

Just admit it, you want someone else to pay your way. Let someone else pay for all the shit you want government to do, but don't hand you the bill for it.

I think progressive tax rates make sense. If you want fish, fish where the fish are.

Now, for perhaps the 6th time....who said that the rich pay 'virtually no taxes'?

 

[Steven_R]

You believe sticking your hand in another man's pocket to pay your bills is perfectly reasonable.

 

[Indeependent]

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

So let's get rid of them and then tax every dollar the same

So if it is your only dollar it gets taxed ten cents and if it is your hundred millionth dollar it gets taxed ten cents

I'm alright with that. Everyone should have skin in the game, not just those with cash.

Fair share means fair share, not let that guy pay the tab for everyone.

So a massive, massive tax cut for the wealthy and a huge tax hike for the poor and middle class is 'fair'?

What exactly do the rich get for pulling the weight of everyone? Their vote doesn't count for more, they don't get more rights, so why should they be expected to pay for more just because they can?

And lest we forget, they get vilified by the bully pulpit the whole time just to boot.

One vote, more influence.

 

[Skylar]

You believe sticking your hand in another man's pocket to pay your bills is perfectly reasonable.

I believe that taxing someone beyond their ability to pay is foolish and unsustainable. And the wealth have more capacity to pay. Meaning that higher tax rates for the wealthy make fiscal sense.

Again, if you want fish, fish where the fish are. This would seem obvious.

 

[Steven_R]

That is the logic of every highwayman. He has it, I want it, I'm taking it...by force if necessary.

You just want to use government to do the deed instead of holding the knife yourself.

 

[Skylar]

That is the logic of every highwayman. He has it, I want it, I'm taking it...by force if necessary.

You just want to use government to do the deed instead of holding the knife yourself.

Its the logic of anyone setting up a sound tax policy. As embraces taxation based one's capacity to pay.

Which makes sense.

 

[Skylar]

Oh, and after have a dozen requests for you folks to tell me *who* is saying that the rich pay virtually no taxes...

.....and the crickets in reply, can we agree that the claim is a strawman?